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Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Mon 28-Dec-20 14:15:21
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FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[link to this post]
 
Hi, so after several years of trying my village finally got a community fibre partnership agreed and it has since been installed and is now ready to order.

I have ordered the full fibre 300 package, currently i just use a powerline adapter to get my current broadband connection from one side of the house to the other and it works reasonably well.
However i am now thinking that to get the full 300Mbps and possibly a higher speed in the future, it would be a good idea to run an ethernet cable outside along the bottom of the house and back in to the far side of the house, probably around 20-25m i would say, i was wondering which ethernet cable i should go for and which router should be used for a secondary router? i will likley just use the router/hub provided by bt as my main one.

any input is welcome thanks thanks.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 28-Dec-20 14:46:03
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
From what you say, it will be outside so External and potentially SWA should be used. Go for Cat6 https://www.fscables.com/products/armoured-structure...[]=1,3,7

Terminate each end in an RJ45 socket mounted on a standard backbox.

At the far end you will NOT need a router just a multiport switch - find a suitable Gbit capable one, there are 5, 8, 9, 16, 24 port versions. Work out how many devices will connect, add one for the incoming plus a couple of spares.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User andygegg
(regular) Mon 28-Dec-20 15:37:10
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
I'd say see how the powerline works out before a lot of DIY!
As far as I know Cat5 should be OK but I'm not an expert. Can you run the cable indoors, rather than having to drill through walls or window frames - length of run is not a problem. Also, external cabling probably needs to be a different standard.

MHC is quite right, plug one end into your HomeHub and the other into a simple switch; no need for anything fancy. I've had a Netgear proSafe 8-port (UNmanaged) running for years with no problem at all.

Edited by andygegg (Mon 28-Dec-20 15:38:15)


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Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Mon 28-Dec-20 16:15:35
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: andygegg] [link to this post]
 
Forget Cat5. Especially as 2.5gbe networking is becoming more mainstream. Better to go with Cat6
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 28-Dec-20 16:27:24
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
Only if you need these super fast speeds.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Mon 28-Dec-20 16:27:38
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: andygegg] [link to this post]
 
Hi, thanks for the reply.

So the shape of my house is an L, pretty much in the middle of the house is where my current router is, and i would be bringing it to one end of the house where the garage is with a loft above the garage it's my games/cinema room.
Currenty we are running wireless broadband so there is already a hole coming out from behind where the router is and there is a hole into the garage loft room where an tv aeriel cable was fed from the main loft in the house to the one above the garage.
So running a cable shouldnt be too much of a hassle.
I will try the powerline first, might just plug that in upstairs at the opposite end of the house, we wont need as much of a consistent nternet connection at that end.

so basically get a cat5e or cat 6 cable that is for outdoor use https://www.amazon.co.uk/MutecPower-Outdoor-waterpro... like that? or is that not a very good quality one.

and then this switch, https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-GS108UK-Gigabit-Eth...

What device would i plug into the ethernet switch to get a wifi signal?

also my main use for all this will be for streaming 4k HDR content, possible game streaming, big game downloads, gaming etc so ideally i would like the consitent 300Mbps with a low ping, hence why i wasn't too sure on the powerlines for lng term.

thanks
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Mon 28-Dec-20 16:43:49
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Only if you need these super fast speeds.


One thing I've noticed this year is that people getting FTTP and wanting higher speeds, especially as more people are not only spending more time at home, but also working from home.

Example: If you have FTTP 900meg for instance, that does not give much room for any bandwidth for your local network.

Yes this example might not be what they are doing today, but at least it would save them re-wiring at a later date, since they have already expressed that higher speeds maybe a thing they want to do.
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Mon 28-Dec-20 16:45:30
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
For the types of things you want to do with your internet connection, then I think it would be better to go straight for a wired connection and forget the powerlines.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 28-Dec-20 17:47:44
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
That cable is awful. It is copper clad aluminium rather than pure copper and CCA does not meet industry specifications.

Use the link I have provided, then will sell to individuals. Mount standard backbox in the terminal locations and fit an RJ45 Cat6 socket, terminating the cable in those. Then a patch lead from the socket to router or switch.


The Netgear is fine - I have several obsolete 10/100 versions here.

Then find a suitable Wireless Access Point (WAP) plenty to chose from.

For 300Mbps - you need to be cabled and cabled well. Forget powerline adapters.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Mon 28-Dec-20 18:13:50
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
The link you provided is over £150 for a cable though.

I just want a cable i can run from the router to the switch and will be okay to be outside and will provie me with my 300Mbps or up to 1000Mbps in the future.

I wasn't wanting to have to cut the cables or do anything like that.

Is there no other alternatives for a good cable for under £40
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 28-Dec-20 18:25:17
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Call FS tomorrow and ask - they normally supply external Cat5e/6 cut to length. I happen to have a 40m length sitting here, supplied by them.

The link is for armoured - you may feel that you can use plain exterior Cat6 https://www.fscables.com/products/cat-6-external.htm...[]=1,3,7


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Mon 28-Dec-20 18:26:59
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
The link you provided is over £150 for a cable though.

I just want a cable i can run from the router to the switch and will be okay to be outside and will provie me with my 300Mbps or up to 1000Mbps in the future.

I wasn't wanting to have to cut the cables or do anything like that.

Is there no other alternatives for a good cable for under £40


If you aren't planning to cut cables or put ends on yourself then just getting a good quality Cat6 pre-made cable will be fine, don't need to pay that much for it. I would not normally recommend it, but if you just want a quick install then it should be fine. Just make sure you use at the very least surge protection on the switches. Some people do go overboard on insisting on armour cable, but seen plenty of Sky installs where it's just really cheap cable used for the outside.
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Tue 29-Dec-20 11:44:54
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Hi, i've just emailed them asking which cable they would reccomend and if they could supply say a 25m ethernet for me.
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Tue 29-Dec-20 11:49:37
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
Whats the surge protector required for?
also whats the best way to get wifi from the ethernet switch? pluging in a router?
Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Tue 29-Dec-20 12:08:23
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
Given 2.5Gbps is rated for the full 100m on Cat5e, that is a pretty dumb reason to go for Cat6. I would however personally recommend Cat6 in a domestic enviroment as the distance and bundling limitations are unlikely to come into play for even 10Gbps unless you live in a mansion and you get the full 100m at 5Gbps too. Though in a domestic enviroment Cat5e is will be good enough for 5Gbps as the distance limitations won't effect you.
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Tue 29-Dec-20 17:42:40
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
What works on paper doesn't always work in real life. I've already had to replace a number of cat5e installs because they are not up to the job of doing 2.5gbe
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Tue 29-Dec-20 17:45:09
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Surge protector stops surges getting through to your computer equipment, it's far cheaper to replace simple surge protectors than buying a new PC/Games Console and Router etc.

Plug in wireless access points where you want the wifi
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Tue 29-Dec-20 20:39:13
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
Right, so what plugs into what then? i dont have much idea, would it be homehub>20/25m ethernet>surge protector>ethernet switch and then what ever devices into the switch?

do you have any reccomendations for a cheap surge protector? ethernet cable and switch, theres a few switches on amazon, ideally i'd like to go for budget orientated items if possible.

surge protectors, https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=ethernet+surge+protecto...

ethernet cables https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=ethernet+cable+outdoor&...

ethernet switches https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=ethernet+switch&i=compu...

Edited by MikeJG (Tue 29-Dec-20 20:46:37)

Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Wed 30-Dec-20 18:38:44
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
Then it was not Cat5e, or was not properly terminated. There is lots of copper clad steel being used for Cat5e cables and plenty of older plain Cat5 floating about.

However new structured wiring should be Cat6 or Cat6a.
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Wed 30-Dec-20 21:57:50
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Thoughts on these cables.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0765DSJGV/ref=cm_sw_r_s...


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06VX428P9/ref=cm_sw_r_c...
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 31-Dec-20 10:27:38
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Why are you set on not doing the job properly? Plenty of comments about the right way and you want to use inferior, inappropriate products to lash up a solution.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User dect
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 31-Dec-20 11:31:48
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Why are you set on not doing the job properly? Plenty of comments about the right way and you want to use inferior, inappropriate products to lash up a solution.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!!
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Thu 31-Dec-20 13:54:23
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I wasn't wanting to spend a great deal, the links people have provided have been for cables which cost a minmum of £50, not including all the other equipment,
Plus i dont know how to do half the stuff people have mentioned, i was just wanting to run a cable from where my router is, outside for maybe 15m then to my pc/games room.
I wasn't wanting to overcomplicated things.
I emailed FS cables and they said any order is a minimum of £50. and there cables aren' suitable for running indoors due to them being flammable

Edited by MikeJG (Thu 31-Dec-20 14:02:54)

Standard User Woolwich
(committed) Thu 31-Dec-20 15:03:45
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Alway found this mob reliable and reasonably priced. No minimum order as far as I remember. https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Thu 31-Dec-20 21:27:46
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
"due to them being flammable"

????????

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Jan-21 00:10:53
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
I'm sure I read similar the other day about dropwire...

Cheers!

Clive

Andrews & Arnold Home::1 FTTC DrayTek Vigor 2762ac Cisco SPA112 and HUAWEI E5776 with O2 Data SIM
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 01-Jan-21 01:00:26
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: Ancient_Mariner] [link to this post]
 
It is not that the wires are "flammable" but the potential fumes they can give off. BT and others specify a maximum length of external cables inside a house. Similarly external Cat5e/6 has a recommended internal length.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Fri 01-Jan-21 14:46:33
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: Woolwich] [link to this post]
 
https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat6a-cable/9588-exter... found that on the site, presuming its a solid copper cable?
Standard User MikeJG
(regular) Fri 01-Jan-21 14:50:09
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I could route the cable so it would only be inside around 1m to connect to the router, and route the other side so it would only be around 1m at the other end. There is already an exisiting hole at the router side for my current wireless broadband, so i could route the cable through there along the bottom wall of the house and rather than going in though the wall at the other end i could run it through the garage door and up the inside of the wall, through the loft hatch on top of the garage, then connect it to a ethernet switch and plug devices into that.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 01-Jan-21 14:56:44
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
If that route is easy to run, than just buy enough Cat6 or Cat5e internal cable - 50 - 90p per metre, two back boxes, two RJ45 faceplates and there you have it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sat 16-Jan-21 11:50:11
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: Ancient_Mariner] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:
I'm sure I read similar the other day about dropwire...

Cheers!

Good practice is never to run internal grade cables externally and external grade cables internally. People often do of course, in the same way that folks think its OK to run cables inside blue alkathene (MDPE) water pipe...

External-internal cable transitions points and standards are there for a reason.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jan-21 12:31:36
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
External is for a good reason. Why shouldn't you run external internally. Waste of money is the only reason I can think of.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sat 16-Jan-21 12:45:20
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In general external grade cable, is made of materials or are of construction that aren't compatible with occupancy building regs either due to flammability or toxicity if they are burnt are are exposed to fire.

For example the majority of internal cables in new builds are now specified as LSZH (low smoke zero halogen) rather than PVC which burns with an acrid smoke. Depending on the construction of external cable they can have internal strength members, jacketing layers and petroleum based jellies to resist water penetration none of which are great from a for internal use for the reasons given.

Finally from a workability perspective they are often much stiffer and harder, designed more for underground ducts and aerial style external cabling than being stuffed into your typical internal conduit or standard backbox.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Sat 16-Jan-21 13:47:02
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
Hi, so after several years of trying my village finally got a community fibre partnership agreed and it has since been installed and is now ready to order.

I have ordered the full fibre 300 package, currently i just use a powerline adapter to get my current broadband connection from one side of the house to the other and it works reasonably well.
However i am now thinking that to get the full 300Mbps and possibly a higher speed in the future, it would be a good idea to run an ethernet cable outside along the bottom of the house and back in to the far side of the house, probably around 20-25m i would say, i was wondering which ethernet cable i should go for and which router should be used for a secondary router? i will likley just use the router/hub provided by bt as my main one.

any input is welcome thanks thanks.

Mike - you have two ways of doing this, either properly or on the cheap/bodge. Which way you choose is up to you and your budget.

"Proper Job":
Get either 100m reel or a full 305m tote box of either Cat5e or Cat6 (solid core) decent name brand cable. Try to avoid the cheap junk from eBay or Amazon. Run 2 x cables from the front to the back. If running outside your walls, then run the cables inside solid wall conduit. If running cable within/inside wall cavities etc then the conduit is not strictly necessary. Conduit is for mechanical and limited weather ingress protection. Bring the cables out onto single gang back-boxes, score and strip the ends carefully with a sharp Stanley knife and terminate/punch down onto some decent quality matching Cat5e or Cat6 sockets. Ensure you maintain the same pair sequence / colour code (wither 568A or B but don't mix and match) at both ends.

"On the Cheap":
Get either 2 x long-ish pre-terminated RJ45 to RJ45 fly-leads. These will typically be stranded wire construction, as flyleads and patch leads are deemed to be "work area" cords and stranded construction cable can deal with repeated flexing etc. without the conductors failing over time as they would with solid core cable used as the permeant link. How you dress the cables into your building fabric is up to you but it generally will be less neat and tidy than cables into socket outlets above. You can also get solid core flyleaves, but there is a risk with bending and cable movement over time that they fail prematurely. Solid core cable should really be run once and left alone (in the wall etc).

Why 2 cables? brings added flexibility, and a bit of future proofing.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Sat 16-Jan-21 14:43:21
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In general most people don't use LSZH ethernet cable or even mains cable in domestic environments. In fact you have to search it out specifically if you want to use it. Personally I did my house in LSZH Cat6a but as I have said before that was in part due to the cable being free. That said I actually think it's a good idea for ethernet cable as it usually comes purple jacketed which makes it much easier to distinguish later on. You are under a floorboard in 10 years time wondering what that cable does, argh it's purple it's for ethernet.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jan-21 16:46:25
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Re: FTTP home networking options? CAT5e? CAT6? which router?


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
That's why I used the same stuff. Wife's school was adding some buildings and the network guy had some 10 metre off-cuts.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
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