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HI all,
So I have the 900/900 symmetric service from Cityfibre (No One internet) installed and the best speed I can get on my current Wifi set up, is around the 500mbps down/up.
When hard wired, i can almost reach the max of 900/900mbps.
I'd rather not go the route of having cables running all around my house to make use of the speed I'm paying for, but I'm drawing a blank as to what set up I could use that would get anywhere near the full speed over Wifi.
Right now the provider has provided a Fritz!Box 7590 and I'm using a TP-Link AC1900 High Gain Wireless Dual Band USB Adapter for my desktop.
I'm able to get a 1.0 to 1.3 Gbps link speed in Windows, but as mentioned before, the most I can download/upload at, is around 500Mbps (tested on torrents/steam/speedtest etc).
So I'm wondering if there's any hardware out there that would let me come close to the full speed of my fibre, or will I have to go the ethernet cable route?
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The only things that will come remotely close are WiFI routers / access points running either WiFi 6 (802.11AX) or better but few and far between (for now at least on the laptop / PC / smartphone client side) is WiFI 6E - which extends WiFI into the 6GHz spectrum.
For reference I’ve just tried some tests this morning with an iPhone 12 and an M1 based MacBook Pro and the most of been able to extract on a ‘real world’ speed test (using Oolka client to Coreix in London) is around 880 Mbps down and about 640 Mbps up using a fresh WiFI 6 access point.
My existing 802.11ac access points are maxing out at around 650 Mbps in both directions.
Edit - just broke 910 Mbps download...though still not quite getting above about 650 Mbps upwards on the MacBook. iPhone can get around 830/840 down and a similar amount up.
Edited by Pheasant (Fri 01-Oct-21 12:43:15)
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A 3x3 or 4x4 wireless adapter would get better speeds as I believe iPhones and M1 Macs are only 2x2.
Thanks
Dan
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Yep just checked, only 2 MIMO spatial streams and a max channel bandwidth of 80 MHz on the MBP.
Link here to Apple MacBook WiFi specs for anyone interested.
WiFi specification for iPhone models is here.
Edit: Interestingly my 'old' 2017 era 15-inch MBP, which *only* has 802.11ac but vitally with 3x3 MIMO (still only with 80 MHz channel BW though) just did the identical speed test @ 931 Mbps down and 793 Mbps up....so there you go the old dog beats the new.
Keen to try this setup with 3x3 or 4x4 on 802.11AX with the full 160 MHz channel.
Edited by Pheasant (Fri 01-Oct-21 14:20:14)
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Yeah that makes sense it's only 2x2 as it's a development of the mobile SoCs.
I have 4x4 adapter but I haven't bought an AX Access Point yet.
Thanks
Dan
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I last refreshed my wired-in AP's in 2019/20 as part of the whole house refurb. They are all 802.11ac generation but at least with 4x4 Mu-MIMO radios (Ubiquiti nanoHD) - which are very neat and nice - mine are recessed and plastered in. This one is on the wall of my study.
These have offered excellent performance, but I am tempted to upgrade to 802.11AX (hopefully with 6E support) at some point. I just hope UI bring in a decent replacement when they overhaul the range, the new WiFi6 Lites nare the same small form, but the upgrade in performance really isn't up to par of the nanoHD's.
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Very nice fitment, I've installed a lot of Ubiquiti kit for customers.
I've personally got one of these in access point mode.
I've had it for a while and been thinking about replacing it but can't decide what to get, I've only got 600Mbps VM connection and it easily handles that.
Thanks
Dan
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Nice.
I have 3 x TPLink EAP245 v3's (wired backhaul) which are only 3x3, but were a fair bit cheaper than the Ubiquiti kit...plus I run the nice Omada controller on the NAS.
On the internal LAN (speedtest running on my NAS)...with the 5Ghz band and channel width at 80Mhz...
I hit around 440Mbps down / 400Mbps up using an iPhone 12.
On a MBP (early 2015), it's 750Mbps down / 640Mbps up
This is typically more than fast enough for me (especially with my paltry 37Mbps FTTC connection...but soon to be 500Mbps).
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Thanks. That's a nice AP there too.
Although I do like UI wireless kit, I am getting a bit frustrated with their product roadmap - there doesn't really seem to be one! It's like they've lost the plot a little and the recent product releases and updates seem to be a bit sort of scatter-gun.
Hope I'm wrong and they bring out a smashing replacement with the HD and NanoHD range in WiFi 6E guise soon.
Edited by Pheasant (Fri 01-Oct-21 15:38:07)
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It all really depends on the area you want to cover (and internal walls etc.)
My place is relatively big and the walls are thick - which really affects the signal strength in my case. So I went for segregation of WiFi and routing responsibilities (i.e. WAPs + router).
The (ageing) LinkSys WRT1900ACS with OpenWRT I have seems to still cope with the routing requirements I have.
Strategically placed WAPs (ceiling + walls) now mean great coverage and speeds throughout the house. I'm now considering an outdoor one...but this maybe overkill 
I'm not sure I'd go back to a WiFi router, even in a smaller place.
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Sounds good Miles. Impressive performance from your 2015 MBP. Are you testing to/from your NAS?
I agree with your sentiments about separating the routing from the access points, especially on larger places where you just can’t otherwise get decent WiFi cover. It’s amazing how easily throughput can go from terrific to terrible.
If folks ever have the opportunity to cable up APs it’s still the gold standard and won’t be bettered by mesh setups.
Edited by Pheasant (Fri 01-Oct-21 16:01:32)
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Yeah and they can't seem to keep anything in stock atm but that is the same for most companies.
Thanks
Dan
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Luckily all devices that can be wired are wired and it's mainly just used for mobiles/tablets and laptops.
I'll probably wait to upgrade when we move as where we will be moving is a house built in the 1800s and has very thick walls.
Thanks
Dan
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Sounds good Miles. Impressive performance from your 2015 MBP. Are you testing to/from your NAS?
Yeah, I have the Speedtest "app" running as an installed package on the QNAP NAS.
If folks ever have the opportunity to cable up APs it’s still the gold standard and won’t be bettered by mesh setups.
Absolutely
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This one is on the wall of my study. Now that's commitment to a product family
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I suppose we got a bit carried away with recessed fittings: Nest smoke and heat detector plastered in fittings
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The trick is as you move in get some Cat6a put in for at least ceiling mount access points. Use some planning software to get the optimal locations for good coverage.
I am like you everything that can be wired is wired and then the wireless is just for stuff that is actually mobile or doesn't have the option of ethernet. Then again I have full structured wiring in my house.
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The basic answer is no; you cant change the laws of physics.
You could spend a fortune on WiFi equipment and short of line of site to the access point in a location with zero interface you won't get close to the link speed.
For a domestic situation you can't beat a length of Cat6a which is good to go for 10Gbps and is fastest that is ever likely to be available for twisted pair Ethernet networking. There is technically IEEE 802.3bq which offers 25/40Gbps at up to 30m but requires Cat8 cable, special connectors and is direct connect only, aka. no structured wiring with patch panels and wall plates. There is also zero equipment you can actually buy that uses it and I seriously doubt there ever will as it is much cheaper to run actual optical fibre than Cat8.
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Cat6 is rated for 10gb up to 55m unlikely to hit those limits in a domestic property
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...and Cat6a is rated to carry 10 GBase-T for the full 100 metre standard channel length.
Cat 6A is quite an unwieldy beast of a cable to work with, especially in a domestic environment, more so if one is used to working with the lithe, slim and comparably bendy Cat5e.
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That's the plan, will need to get a bigger ladder for the ceiling access points though.
Also it will probably be a pain to run the cables too.
I will probably use CAT6a as I plan to get 10Gig switches too
Thanks
Dan
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I don't think anyone has suggested this yet, but you could downgrade to the 500/500 service and save a few quid a month (and a lot of hassle), given that everything is otherwise working fine.
I'm not in Cityfibre footprint - I have 300/50 via Openreach FTTP. I haven't bothered to take anything higher because in practice, the download time is usually much less than the processing time. e.g. I can download a macOS update in 2 minutes, but it still takes 20 minutes to install.
I have a pair of Unifi AC Lites, which look similar to Pheasant's Nanos, ceiling-mounted. They deliver about 400Mbps measured throughput when testing to on-site servers, and 225Mbps when my phone is talking to speedtest.net. That's good enough for me.
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The Unbiqiti Flex HDs are another option.
I see a full 310 through mine on 5GHz and around 270-290 on the 2.4Ghz band. The 5 GHz is capable of 1700 Mbps and I have seen close to 1000 in a different environment. I have some big transfers to do over the next couple of days so connectong teh two PCs to different WAPs should show their capabilities!
The Flex HD can be wall, table pole or ceiling mount - although it needs a hole and adapter plate to do it. All, I belive, of teh Ubiuquiti WAPs have PoE and usually come with the injector; they will all mesh together and the new U6LR will give 600Mbs on 2.4gHz and 2400Mbps on 5 Ghz.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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It's not particularly bad I did my entire house in Cat6a cable. Though I will freely admit that was because it was free. The contractors at work would routinely leave boxes with 10m or 20m, sometimes more in the patch rooms because they where too lazy to take them away. They where warned to take them away which they didn't so the network guy offered them to me as I was doing my house up at the time.
Now difficult to work with is 10mm twin and earth...
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Now difficult to work with is 10mm twin and earth...
Ever tried 16mm T&E?
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Fortunately not. I would imagine you need a pipe bender for that.
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Almost!
I have a reel of 10mm here - about 35-40m and almost impossible to lift. Old Red and Black so of ni real use now! Last used to connect 6mmSWA to CU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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It's not particularly bad I did my entire house in Cat6a cable. Though I will freely admit that was because it was free. The contractors at work would routinely leave boxes with 10m or 20m, sometimes more in the patch rooms because they where too lazy to take them away. They where warned to take them away which they didn't so the network guy offered them to me as I was doing my house up at the time.
Now difficult to work with is 10mm twin and earth...
Using Commscope Systimax Gigaspeed X10 (formerly AT&T->Lucent->Avaya) Cat 6A cabling. It's definitely good gear and the patch panels are v/nice.
As a size comparison here is one of their factory Cat6A UTP patch leads vs a 'regular' Cat6 UTP lead.
https://postimg.cc/k23MJbkM
https://postimg.cc/xXvfcd2v
Its a fairly impressively tight twist ratio each pair around its own former and with the central separation member, topped off with a nice thick sheath. Its an interesting exercise when you have 4 of these in a standard depth backbox and flush faceplate, as there is so little give to the cable.
It feels like modern day equivalent of IBM Type 1
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I have some investigations to start...having got my 500Mbps broadband today.
Internal Speedtest from phone to NAS...over 500Mbps download.
Using official "Speedtest.net" app from phone (same position / location, but obviously lan to wan), is 150 or 200Mbps 🤔
I need to try my MacBook as well.
Wired speeds (lan to wan) using the Mac & Windows SpeedTest.net apps is showing full bandwidth.
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See what the MacBook will do over its WiFI. Good that wired performance is as expected.
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See what the MacBook will do over its WiFI. Good that wired performance is as expected.
It's the same story with the MacBook
I'm sure the QNAP Speedtest is good, because I can see the difference in wired vs. WiFi on it (I.e. hit 1Gbps speeds via wired, but variable when on WiFi...and reducing when further from access points etc.)
It's really winding me up! 😀
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Throughput vs distance between device and AP can massively vary. That’s just the nature of the beast. An AP will have a distinct radiation pattern too, it will certainly not be the same in all directions. Generally speaking the closer you are the better the throughput, but not too close, and there will be more ideal ‘sweet spots’ too. Walls and other obstacles simply kill WiFi performance.
For example here are the patterns from the Ubiquiti access points. They are all remarkably different. Mounting orientation and indeed the material all have massive effects.
How much latency is wireless adding to the speedtests when testing to the NAS and testing to external servers, compared to a wired connection? How do the jitter figures compare?
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Ah, just seen your other thread. Will continue over in that thread 😀
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Surely the further away the device is from the AP then the slower the speed?
Am I missing something?
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
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Surely the further away the device is from the AP then the slower the speed?
Am I missing something?
Sorry, I shouldn't have hijacked this thread...it's all now here:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/multiuser/f/469666...
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