Wi-fi 6 - to be or not to be?

It seems to me that UK ISPs that supply a router with new broadband contracts are being very slow to update the one supplied to models supporting Wi-fi 6. Most new computers and phone support this standard but I am not aware of any ISP supplying a router that transmits this technology. There have long been rumours of a new BT Smarthub and I have been hoping the Zen would start supplying the FritzBox 7530 AX model that their manufacturers have been promoting for a long time now. Is it a cost issue, chip supply problem or the need to get rid of old stocks?
Various suppliers of mesh systems are offering wi-fi 6 at exorbitant cost. Can these transmit wi-fi 6 if the initial router does not support this standard?

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

Can these transmit wi-fi 6 if the initial router does not support this standard?

Yes, they are not connected. In many cases when you install a mesh, you disable WiFi on an ISP router (e.g. BT Hub, or Plusnet Hub).

WiFi 6 is more complex than earlier versions, the electronics are more costly. The free routers provided by ISPs are typically made to a price. Only those with broadband faster than 300 Mbps or are moving files around the network at home will need WiFi 6 today.

WiFi 5 is very good for the majority of users, even those on Virgin Media 350 Mbps services, unless upgrading to a gigabit service.

Thanks for your helpful advice. The new home I will be moving to will have an Openreach ONT installed as standard and I might not be able to resist the lure of the full 900Mbps service whether I can justify it or not.
Regrettably the property developers building the house will neither install ethernet wiring nor allow me or a contractor access to install same before completion. I shall try to install some myself without doing too much damage but in all our past new houses of which have been several, I have managed to get in and at least spread some Cat 5 cable around in key locations linked back to a common point. Sadly I see no prospect this time as they are treating the building site like Fort Knox.

I suppose I should at least be grateful for the standard FTTP installation even if they are putting the ONT in a cupboard under the stairs!

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

It seems to me that UK ISPs that supply a router with new broadband contracts are being very slow to update the one supplied to models supporting Wi-fi 6.

Really? The free model they give away to customers is not cutting edge, top of the line equipment? You do surprise me.

Of course it's not actually free since the cost is factored into the subs but still you can hardly expect something given away with a service to be anything other than the cheapest bit of tat they think they can get away with.

I use Ubiquiti Flex HD WAPs - 802.11AC Wave2 and they are capable of 1.733 Gbps, I have only managed to test at over 800Mbps, as the AP has only a 1 Gbps Ethernet.

How many people have devices that use this Wi-fi 6?
I don't see the point in replacing routers all the time for no reason.
I am at the moment usingf a old TP-link cable router, 2.5Ghz only
this is what it supports according to the specs.

11n：up to 300Mbps (Automatic)
11g：54/48/36/24/18/12/9/6M (Automatic)
11b：11/5.5/2/1M (Automatic)

The only 5Ghz devices I have is my phone and my TV and my TV is connected via ethernet.

Not saying it will stay that way, but I just wonder how many people do have Wi-fi 6 devices.

We need to stop chucking out Routers as if they were old newspapers, been doing it for years, and the same with mobile phones. Majority of people would not even notice the difference between an older router and newer one, they just want the latest thing.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The only 5Ghz devices I have is my phone and my TV and my TV is connected via ethernet.Not saying it will stay that way, but I just wonder how many people do have Wi-fi 6 devices.

I fully agree on the e-waste problem, disagree that we should stay using WiFi from 2008 or earlier. Unless you live in a very rural area, which you might.

B is equivalent to WiFi 1 and G would be WiFi 3, and they were replaced by WiFi 4 (N) which launched in 2008. For the last 4 years nobody is making hardware to the specifications of 2008. WiFi 5 (AC) launched in 2014, so we are already talking 8 years ago.

Don't look at the "speed" numbers as the way WiFi works these are not related to a fixed line (ethernet, or broadband) speed.

My TV/amp/bluray etc are all on ethernet, but they claim to be WiFi 4 and 5 capable. The rest of my IT hardware (laptop, Fire Stick, phone, work phone, work laptop) are all WiFi 6 capable.

Living in the congested south east, in a block of flats, I need 5 GHz, and the move from N (WiFi 4) to 5 and 6 increases the efficiency over the WiFi. I have 200 Mbps broadband from VM, and I can copy files across my WiFi to my NAS and hard wired desktop at 600 Mbps without problem. With 2.4 GHz I wouldn't be able to use WiFi, the neighbours kids have saturated that band. The obsession with home working now means that even during the business day the radio spectrum is 'busy'.

Using WiFi 6 means that I can also use WPA 3 the latest attempt to secure our radio networks

Edited by jchamier (Sat 21-May-22 09:57:26)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I fully agree on the e-waste problem, disagree that we should stay using WiFi from 2008 or earlier. Unless you live in a very rural area, which you might.

B is equivalent to WiFi 1 and G would be WiFi 3, and they were replaced by WiFi 4 (N) which launched in 2008. For the last 4 years nobody is making hardware to the specifications of 2008. WiFi 5 (AC) launched in 2014, so we are already talking 8 years ago.

Don't look at the "speed" numbers as the way WiFi works these are not related to a fixed line (ethernet, or broadband) speed.

My TV/amp/bluray etc are all on ethernet, but they claim to be WiFi 4 and 5 capable. The rest of my IT hardware (laptop, Fire Stick, phone, work phone, work laptop) are all WiFi 6 capable.

Living in the congested south east, in a block of flats, I need 5 GHz, and the move from N (WiFi 4) to 5 and 6 increases the efficiency over the WiFi. I have 200 Mbps broadband from VM, and I can copy files across my WiFi to my NAS and hard wired desktop at 600 Mbps without problem. With 2.4 GHz I wouldn't be able to use WiFi, the neighbours kids have saturated that band. The obsession with home working now means that even during the business day the radio spectrum is 'busy'.

Using WiFi 6 means that I can also use WPA 3 the latest attempt to secure our radio networks

I live in a road of around 50 houses, in the middle of a housing estate, with houses in front of me, beside me and behind me, my phone is picking up around 7 Wi-fi networks, plus a couple of direct printer connections from next door, not including my own printer and wi-fi. so pretty busy here Wi-fi wise.
I have got a Zyxel router, which plus net gave to me, but I found the Wi-fi iffy, certainly the 5Ghz part, my phone would lose signal going upstairs. But in the last few months of use I had other problems with it on 2.4Ghz, my outdoor cameras disconnecting, then for some reason the router Wi-fi stoppped working.
the Zyxel was sent to try and sort out an issue with the broadband connection.

Anyway, when the Zyxel went belly up, I decided to try my old open reach Huawei modem and my old TP link cable router and it works fine, considering the age of the router i was shocked.

I know wi-fi speed is not related to fixed line or Ethernet, I do try and wire up as much as I can, but my cameras, echo dots, wi-fi plugs and phone is Wi-fi only.
Apart from my phone they all only use 2.4Mhz anyway.

I have over the years found 5Ghz and a bit iffy in many places due to walls or other stuff blocking the signal. I know a few people who have had problems with 5Ghz and yet knocked the 5Ghz of the router and everything connects fine.

Are you in a place where someone is going to use your Wi-fi and can hack WPA2? I don't think my neighbour have the skills to hack into my Wi-Fi, even if they wanted to, and i would surly notice if someone was outside trying to do it. As they would have to get onto my drive. My wi-fi signal fails just outside my gate.


The only thing I can find out about my Blue-ray player is it is 2.4GHz / MIMO.

I am not saying don't update at some point, but I think some people are updating for no reason at all.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I live in a road of around 50 houses, in the middle of a housing estate, with houses in front of me, beside me and behind me, my phone is picking up around 7 Wi-fi networks, plus a couple of direct printer connections from next door, not including my own printer and wi-fi. so pretty busy here Wi-fi wise.

7 is not busy, I can see 10 on a good day, and 15/20 on a bad day. I have friends whom live in other blocks whom can see 40+ networks. That is busy. (And a friend whom lived in a high rise in New York City was unable to use WiFi, used to have a 40ft ethernet cable into her laptop. This was back in 2012. There were more than 100 networks, and WiFi G technology collapsed).

I have got a Zyxel router, which plus net gave to me, but I found the Wi-fi iffy, certainly the 5Ghz part, my phone would lose signal going upstairs. But in the last few months of use I had other problems with it on 2.4Ghz, my outdoor cameras disconnecting, then for some reason the router Wi-fi stoppped working.
the Zyxel was sent to try and sort out an issue with the broadband connection.

I had a Zyxel for a while on VDSL/FTTC but it was a thin flat box, with no visible antenna. Pretty much useless for WiFi. I assumed Zyxel was not a brand for WiFi, and turned it off. I'm now on VM cable due to crosstalk on VDSL, and I use my WiFi 6 ASUS router which is 2.5 years old now.

I know wi-fi speed is not related to fixed line or Ethernet, I do try and wire up as much as I can, but my cameras, echo dots, wi-fi plugs and phone is Wi-fi only.
Apart from my phone they all only use 2.4Mhz anyway.

Older low bandwidth devices (e.g. echo dot, wifi plugs) did this, but all the latest versions (2018/19 onwards) include the 5GHz band because of congestion.

I have over the years found 5 GHz and a bit iffy in many places due to walls or other stuff blocking the signal. I know a few people who have had problems with 5Ghz and yet knocked the 5 GHz of the router and everything connects fine.

You have to plan how to use it, doesn't mean the technology is useless. It is significantly less range and is stopped by metalwork in some walls, but due to this the increases in capacity are significant. You can already buy hardware that uses the 6 GHz band using WiFi 6 (AX) protocol, this is known as WiFi 6E. You ask why? Becuase people want to get gigabit speeds to their laptops and desktops across homes and offices without wires.

My corporate has essentially removed Ethernet everywhere, we no longer have desk phones. Everything is WiFi, and we have mobiles or use phone features on laptops (e.g. MS Teams). We used to have 100 Mbps Ethernet each, now most people get 200+ Mbps on WiFi using WiFi 5, and they are hoping to upgrade the infrastructure to WiFi 6 / 6E soon. We keep our laptops for 4 to 5 years, and I've just had my WiFi 5 laptop replaced with a new one that supports WiFi 6.

Are you in a place where someone is going to use your Wi-fi and can hack WPA2?

My WiFi reaches into my neighbours flats, so er, yes. I can pick up the bluetooth of my neighbours Samsung and OnePlus phones when pairing my headphones. And I live in a 1970s built block, we don't have the late 1980s "paper walls", so I can only assume things are worse for many others.

I am not saying don't update at some point, but I think some people are updating for no reason at all.

Yes, no need to upgrade if everything is working. I think we made a mistake in the UK in not having the domestic hardware supplied by the network operator (e.g. Openreach, CityFibre) but being supplied by the ISP, which means we are creating a lot of e-waste.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 21-May-22 11:21:55)

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

I suppose I should at least be grateful for the standard FTTP installation even if they are putting the ONT in a cupboard under the stairs!

That sounds nice for visual reasons, but isn't great for WiFi coverage or connectivity!