Whats maximum distance "Outside Box" to internal ONT box?

I need to plan the route in my house for the FTTP installation due in a week or so in the UK. My ISP says wait for the Engineer to come, but that will be too late as I need to clear on the routing and so clear things out of the way.

Please could someone help me with categoric answers to the following:
- How far from the "Outside Box" can the ONT box be without any significant degradation of quality? (this is the most importance question...and what's the Outside Box called ) )
- As the connection from the Outside box to the ONT box is fibre
> What diameter 90 degree bend can it safely withstand?
> Is there any recommended conduit or other cable protection that I can easily and cheaply obtain in the UK?
- Please confirm that:
> cable from the ONT box to the Router is Cat5e
> the distance from the ONT box to the Router can be 10 metres without any significant degradation.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! ....to anyone that can give one or more confident answers to the above.
BB

1. The outside box is called the Customer Splice Point (CSP). Since the link between the CSP and the ONT is fibre, there is unlikely to be any degradation of signal due to distance. If it's a long way, the limiting factor might be amount of time it will take the Openreach engineer to run the fibre (see 3 below).

2. I dont know the minimum bend radius. My guess is that it would be something similar to Cat5e.

3. Mini-trunking or 20mm round conduit would do well. If you want to make life easy for everyone, put a drawstring in so the engineer can pull the fibre through (I did this and got brownie points from the Openreach engineer, and the ONT went exactly where I wanted it as a result). Round conduit is less likely to snag the fibre than minitrunking and you can buy curved joints for corners, mini-trunking is less obtrusive but has right-angled bends which might cause problems.

4. Cat5e will be fine from ONT to router. As long as the cable is good quality and not kinked, bent or otherwise abused, a 10 metre run will be absolutely fine.

All based on experience from a recent installation here - I'm not an installer.

As per stephen_b's reply, the distance from the CSP to the ONT is not important in terms of signal quality - the limiting factor will be the length of pre-terminated fibre that the engineer has available. From personal experience, I know that 10 metres is fine, and I have read here and elsewhere that up to 30m should usually be fine.

I belileve the bend diameter is usually expressed as equivalent to the circumference of a pound coin.

I ran a 9m length of 20mm flexible conduit (sourced from the local Screwfix) from my external wall to the internal cupboard where I wanted the ONT. I then used the "kitchen roll and hoover" method to pull a string through that. The installer was more than happy to use this to install the fibre.

Connection between the ONT and router will depend on the FTTP service you're ordering. If it's a 'standard' 1Gb/s or less, then Cat5E is in spec for up to 100m. If you're going for the newer 1.6Gb/s offerings, then your ONT will have a 2.5Gb/s port - Cat5E is probably still good for 30m or so, but I'm not 100% on the specs there.

In reply to a post by NewFTTPUserBB:

Please could someone help me with categoric answers to the following:
- How far from the "Outside Box" can the ONT box be without any significant degradation of quality? (this is the most importance question...and what's the Outside Box called ) )
- As the connection from the Outside box to the ONT box is fibre
> What diameter 90 degree bend can it safely withstand?
> Is there any recommended conduit or other cable protection that I can easily and cheaply obtain in the UK?
- Please confirm that:
> cable from the ONT box to the Router is Cat5e
> the distance from the ONT box to the Router can be 10 metres without any significant degradation.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! ....to anyone that can give one or more confident answers to the above.
BB

Others have answered the questions on the fibre, but in general it is best to arrange internal and external points such that there is only a minimum run of optical fibre within the house. Usually, it is better to run Cat5e than optical within the premises as it is more robust [although fibre is fairly robust] and repair is under your control.

Cat5e is fine within the house as fixed wiring up to 100m I believe, inclusive of a connection point and a patch lead to the router.

Thankyou so much Stephen B. That's invaluable advice!

Thankyou so much Potterer. That's excellent!

Thank you DF Scale for reviewing the feedback and adding the extra info.

Remember you need to be near a twin mains socket, 1 = ONT, 2 = Router (unless your router is further away).

As already quoted I would have the ONT on the inside wall of the outside box (CSP) and then run cat5e/6 from the ONT to your router that way any issues with internal cable can be fixed with a temporary cable quickly and you can route this cable which ever way you want (up to 305 metres away from ONT).

having a short fibre length from the CSP also means if there is a fault with the fibre. Openreach have a couple of metres spare in the CSP to repair any such problems quickly rather than have to replace over 10 metres of fibre which could take days to get an engineer with enough time.

Cat 6 can run 10 Gbit in your house so there is no need to have the fibre all the way to the router.

also making it right next to the CSP means you only need 1 extra plug for the ONT and leave the router plugged in to where it currently is linked to the ONT with a longer cat5e/6 cable

you can get 2.5 Gigabit over 100 Metres of cat5e cable
but even so as you say the OP could upgrade this easily in the future if the get more speed than this
without having to pay openreach to do it.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

As already quoted I would have the ONT on the inside wall of the outside box (CSP) and then run cat5e/6 from the ONT to your router that way any issues with internal cable can be fixed with a temporary cable quickly and you can route this cable which ever way you want (up to 305 metres away from ONT).

Don't think so. 100m max for Cat5e/6 Ethernet - including patch leads.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

(up to 305 metres away from ONT).

You mean 305 feet of course.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

you can get 2.5 Gigabit over 100 Metres of cat5e cable
but even so as you say the OP could upgrade this easily in the future if the get more speed than this
without having to pay openreach to do it.

Unlikely. Cat5e will normally only support 1Gbps. You might get short distances but no where near 100m at 2.5Gbps

In reply to a post by hunnymonster:

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

(up to 305 metres away from ONT).

You mean 305 feet of course.

Even that is not quite right ... 100m >>> 328 feet

You are thinking of 305m = 1000 feet (or actually 304.8m)

In reply to a post by NewFTTPUserBB:

I need to plan the route in my house for the FTTP installation due in a week or so in the UK. My ISP says wait for the Engineer to come, but that will be too late as I need to clear on the routing and so clear things out of the way.

...

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! ....to anyone that can give one or more confident answers to the above.
BB

Hi Folks
Thank you for the comprehensive answers. They've helped me a great deal.
The speed isn't an issue, as its currently a max of 1Gb.
Distance isn't an issue, as its a maximum from CSP to ONT of c.11 meters.
My main constrain is power points. The nearest power socket to the CSP / entry point is the above 11 meters away. So - I have the black 20mm conduit that I'll lay (with bends, not corners). The ONT can then go under the stairs, and then the Cat5e can go about 5 or so meters onto the top my kitchen units where I have another power outlet (extension) for the router (which is where the current router provides good coverage as its near the centre of the house).
If anyone is interested, 9m of conduit along with connectors, corners and saddle clips was nearly £40.
Not sure how to close a thread, but hopefully I'm all set for the installer now - fingers crossed!

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

you can get 2.5 Gigabit over 100 Metres of cat5e cable
but even so as you say the OP could upgrade this easily in the future if the get more speed than this
without having to pay openreach to do it.

Unlikely. Cat5e will normally only support 1Gbps. You might get short distances but no where near 100m at 2.5Gbps

So there's no (or little) point in the increasing amount of 2.5Gb equipment being marketed because it will work with Cat 5e?

For 2.5 Gbps Cat 6 will normally suffice up to 50-55m.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

you can get 2.5 Gigabit over 100 Metres of cat5e cable
but even so as you say the OP could upgrade this easily in the future if the get more speed than this
without having to pay openreach to do it.

Unlikely. Cat5e will normally only support 1Gbps. You might get short distances but no where near 100m at 2.5Gbps

Wrong.

The 2.5GbaseT standard was designed *specifically* to run at 2.5Gbps over 100m of Cat5e. It's the main reason this standard exists - to make better use of existing wiring plant, without having to replace it with Cat6 or Cat6A.

Real world experience is different though.


edit to add:


An interesting commentary: https://www.genuinemodules.com/can-cat5e-do-25-gbps_...

Edited by MHC (Wed 29-May-24 20:51:53)

In reply to a post by MHC:

Real world experience is different though.


edit to add:


An interesting commentary: https://www.genuinemodules.com/can-cat5e-do-25-gbps_...

A commentary that doesn't seem written by someone who knows what they're talking about, if it was written by a human at all.

Cat5e Ethernet cable is designed to support up to 1 gigabit per second (Gbps) of data transfer speed, making it suitable for most home and small office networks. However, it is not officially rated for 2.5 Gbps.

Cat5e cables use four twisted pairs of copper wires to transmit data, and they are capable of handling frequencies up to 100 MHz. This allows them to support data transmission at up to 1 Gbps over distances of up to 100 meters.

2.5 GbE uses 100 MHz of RF bandwidth. The whole point of 2.5 GBASE-T is that it's compatible with existing 5e cabling. To achieve this it fits in the same RF spectrum with the extra capacity coming from a different coding scheme.

The article reads like poor generative AI work.

FWIW, I had my own install done last week and ended up running the indoor portion of the fibre myself as the engineer was not allowed to enter the floor void that was by far the easiest way to get it where I needed it. He happily gave me a 30m role of fibre (I needed around 15m) with the ONT termination at one end, and bare fibre at the other, and it took me an hour to drill the hole at the front of the house, route the cable and clip it neatly into place for when the engineer returned from the previous job.

All dead straightforward with no issues. As a note, it would have been tough to run the indoor fibre around walls because it cannot be curved in a radius of less than around 6 inches, so doesn't go round sharp corners very neatly. Fine under the floor, but keep this in mind when planning the route or putting in ducting. The outside, overhead fibre is even worse, with a minimum radius of around 12 inches! It's pretty robust stuff otherwise, but definitely better put somewhere out of sight if possible.

I wanted to do this so that the ONT was next to the old BT master socket and, most importantly, in the same place as the rest of the kit and the UPS that keeps it all running if the power glitches. Would have been a pain to have the ONT elsewhere, although I'm sure it could have been managed if needed.

Edited by daern (Tue 18-Jun-24 10:21:34)

In reply to a post by daern:

I wanted to do this so that the ONT was next to the old BT master socket and, most importantly, in the same place as the rest of the kit and the UPS that keeps it all running if the power glitches. Would have been a pain to have the ONT elsewhere, although I'm sure it could have been managed if needed.

Why PoE ONT's would be ideal. No need to have power near the ONT.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

Why PoE ONT's would be ideal. No need to have power near the ONT.

I agree, but I don't believe that Netomnia's is and while there are other PoE power breakout solutions that could be used, the easiest solution for me was definitely to get under the floor myself and put it in the right place!

I wish you luck if you ever have technical issues with your service

getting openreach to admit to fix the fault for free when they can charge you £160 a visit and blame YOUR piece of fibre is going to be very interesting. even if the fault is outside your house and csp.

The ‘radius less than 6 inches’ thing isn’t correct … more like a bend around a fifty pence piece

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I wish you luck if you ever have technical issues with your service

getting openreach to admit to fix the fault for free when they can charge you £160 a visit and blame YOUR piece of fibre is going to be very interesting. even if the fault is outside your house and csp.

Technician presumably 'adopted' it when he put the connector on the fibre and activated the ONT. No issues at all.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I wish you luck if you ever have technical issues with your service

getting openreach to admit to fix the fault for free when they can charge you £160 a visit and blame YOUR piece of fibre is going to be very interesting. even if the fault is outside your house and csp.

Technician presumably 'adopted' it when he put the connector on the fibre and activated the ONT. No issues at all.

Yeah, exactly. It's really not a big thing. I used their supplied cable, routed according to their rules by agreement with the engineer who said that he would have done the same, except that he couldn't enter the floor void. It's all tested end to end so there really isn't anything to go wrong here. It only followed the same route as the old Openreach copper anyway, so it's hardly anything revolutionary. I would bet good money that OR would have gone under the floor anyway (they did the last time the copper cable was replaced), but the Youfibre guys have to tread much more carefully and play exactly by the rules.

I'm quite chilled about this.