Unifi PoE network setup

Hello,

I've had the opportunity to cable 100+ year house with Cat6A ethernet and would like to deploy a mainly PoE network going forward.

I currently have a Fritzbox 7590 connected to a Virgin Hub 4, with two Fritzbox 7530s connected to the 7590 over Wifi acting as repeaters.

I don't have any experience of PoE and would welcome any comments on worthwhile improvements, gotchas or alternatives to the following Unifi starter setup. Any suggestions on good places to buy would also be welcome.

1. Virgin Hub4: In modem mode connected to a Unifi Console. I currently have the Gig1 plan.

2. Console: Unifi Express console connected a Unifi Switch. I think this is simplest option to run Unifi software.

3. Switch: Unifi 24 port switch with 16 PoE/PoE+ ports, connected to the following PoE access points/devices:

Loft: 1 x U6 In-Wall AP (includes a switch for 4 Ethernet devices)
Middle Floor: 2 x U6-in-wall AP (will see if 1 U6 AP is sufficient)
Ground Floor: 1 x U6+ in ceiling AP, 1 U6-in-wall AP (will see if U6+ is sufficent)
Outbuilding: 30m away, 1 x U6 In-Wall AP, or maybe 1 outdoor Swiss Army Knife AP (to prioritise garden coverage)
PoE Cameras: Cabling for 3 PoE cameras ( I am undecided about what hardware to use).

Thank you for your feedback.

I would look at a UDM-Pro MAX - that will have the UI consile bult in plus two HDD bays to allow you to add a suitable drive for storing the camera feeds.

The Unifi Express console has a headline routing capability of 1Gbps , but this can easily be downgraded by various security applications or packet inspection. UDMs will easily give over 1Gbps.

You have identified U6 WAPs - they are fine and will give you great coverage.

Apart from the WAPs how many ports do you think you will need? Is the USW-24-POE overkill? If you don't have many other devices needing a wired connection then it might be that a UDM-SE with PoE might be a better option.


Look at using an 8 Port Ultra PoE switch with either 60W or 210W Power in the loft to bring all camera data together which then be fed over a single Cat6 back to the device running Protect.

MHC - Thank you very much for your speedy reply and suggestions.

I'd hadn't looked at all the Unifi products so missed the ones you suggested and others also.

I think the UDM-SE would work and would be a better solution. I currently have 9 PoE devices, but could add a switch with non-PoE ports in some cases.

3 of the U6 In-Wall APs will be located behind a wall-mounted TV. The intention was to connect each TV to the U6 AP via ethernet and also to provide WiFi coverage for the room. A TV could be directly connected to a non-PoE port if the WiFi from another AP was acceptable. Also the access point in the outbuilding need not be PoE i.e. I could use U6 extender. I have additional cables running to some other areas, which might be useful in the future, e.g. less used rooms, external door access.

I don't think the Ultra PoE idea in the loft will work for me, since the cabling for the cameras has been completed - it's impractical to re-cables the cameras to run to the loft. All the cables go a space under the stairs on the ground floor where I will house the Hub4 plus any consoles/switches. If I've mis-interpreted from where the cameras would be powered, please let me know.

Overall, a UDM-SE plus a small non-PoE switch under the stairs seems to a good option going forward?

For the sake of simplicity I would stick a 24-port PoE enabled switch in your central wiring space under the stairs. Doesn't necessarily need to be a Ubiquiti switch. Being able to simply plug something in and know it has PoE if it needs it, is worth it in my opinion. Ditto having spare ports.

I've used a lot of UniFi APs over the years. Indoors I have a mixture of generations, the earliest devices are HD Nano's from around 2019/20 still going strong and they do the bulk of the heavy lifting for any IOT stuff and connected home gear which is sitting on 2.4 GHz and other more mainstream stuff at 5 Ghz bands. They are installed in the hallway areas on the floors on my place to serve adjacent rooms. Pervasive signal reach was my aim with these, and decent performance. They deliver both.

I've recently made an upgrade to U7 Pro Max's in certain locations. These are my 'Lamborghini' access points and I restrict them to 5 and 6 GHz operation operating a separate SSID than the other APs. At close range they are brilliant - and will easily pass 1500 Mbps in both directions, real world. However that speed comes at a cost, both financial (they are expensive) and also in terms of range which is short. So I've discreetly located them directly in the rooms where I want the fastest client connectivity. At the highest levels of possible throughput, passing the signal through plasterboard and other obstacles still works, but you suffer a huge performance drop. It's just physics.

I use a rack mounted CloudKey+ to manage the APs and some other UI switches and stuff. My network is otherwise pretty heterogeneous and I prefer it that way. Router, switches and cameras are all from different manufacturers.

Don't put an AP behind the TV for three reasons: Coverage will be awful, they may over heat and finally the relatively high power close to the TV electronics may well cause major interfence.

If the camera cables are already installed that is fine - I was thinking they may not have been and the Ultra switch is a excellent little device. Push 60w of PoE down to it and then run 4 cameras from it withut issue.

The UDM-SE just check the WAPs and power needed for each remembering that 6 ports are 15.4 w PoE and 2 are 30W. As you need 9 PoE ports then an Ultra would provide 2 more ports (the SE will lose one) plus 5 with PoE off.

Pheasant,

Thank you for sharing your experience and for your suggestions. I do like the idea of mix-and-matching hardware.

1. I have used unmanaged non-PoE TP-Link switches previously. If there is nothing special about the Unifi PoE switches, then I will also look at alternatives. Ditto for cameras.

2. I hadn't spotted the CloudKey+, which only seems to show on the UniFi store, not the main product pages.

3. One question I had was regarding APs. I've always had issues with client wifi devices connecting to a poor-strength AP when a stronger-one should have been selected. I'm hoping that having all Ubiquity APs is better in this regard. I understand that this may not be an AP issue but a client device one, e.g. some client devices just use the last AP they connect to, and don't periodically check for better ones if available.

Many thanks for your input.

MHC,

Many thanks for the warning regarding positioning behind TVs.

I will move the cables for the APs away for the TVs and then run an ethernet cable from the new AP location to the TV.

Best...

One problem with PoE is that there are various types and cable length can sometimes be a problem IME.

In reply to a post by mousetrap:

Pheasant,

Thank you for sharing your experience and for your suggestions. I do like the idea of mix-and-matching hardware.

1. I have used unmanaged non-PoE TP-Link switches previously. If there is nothing special about the Unifi PoE switches, then I will also look at alternatives. Ditto for cameras.

2. I hadn't spotted the CloudKey+, which only seems to show on the UniFi store, not the main product pages.

3. One question I had was regarding APs. I've always had issues with client wifi devices connecting to a poor-strength AP when a stronger-one should have been selected. I'm hoping that having all Ubiquity APs is better in this regard. I understand that this may not be an AP issue but a client device one, e.g. some client devices just use the last AP they connect to, and don't periodically check for better ones if available.

Many thanks for your input.

Re (1) use whatever switch brand you’re comfortable with. I like some of the smaller UI switches such as the Switch Flex Mini as they’re very neat, can run off PoE and deliver decent bang for buck. My larger switches I prefer to use other brands, but there’s nothing wrong with the larger UI switches either.

Re (2) CloudKey+ may be getting on a bit now, and there may be better options. It’s just what I’ve used and they have been very reliable.

Re (3) the best advice I can give you is be generous with the number of WiFI access points. You’ve got a great foundation to work from with Cat6a wiring around the house. Now you need to leverage it.

Ubiquiti does allow you to enable minimum RSSI on each radio on each access point. However it’s not straightforward in terms of just setting an arbitrary value. If you are going to use this setting then do do once you have all your access points in place and do a WiFi site survey. Personally I don’t like using this setting.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

One problem with PoE is that there are various types and cable length can sometimes be a problem IME.

Active PoE (as in 802.3 based) is pretty well supported by Ubiquiti and other vendors. It’s self managing and backwards compatible. Device communicate and negotiate their wattage and power requirements.

The pitfalls come with “passive” PoE which can be very vendor specific and not always interoperable and interchangeable. It just sends a blanket voltage out. There is no comms or negotiation between switch/injector and client.

Avoid the latter.

As for length. As long as you’ve got decent quality cabling, properly installed, (and ideally tested) that meets either Category 5e / 6 or 6A standards, then it will happily work with 802.3 based PoE for the full rated channel length of any Ethernet speed tier for the full 100 metre rated channel length.

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 29-Oct-24 07:38:51)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Re (1) use whatever switch brand you’re comfortable with. I like some of the smaller UI switches such as the Switch Flex Mini as they’re very neat, can run off PoE and deliver decent bang for buck. My larger switches I prefer to use other brands, but there’s nothing wrong with the larger UI switches either.

Have you tried the 8 port Ultra switch yet? With the 210W PSU it will give 30W on the seven PoE output ports - it is quite a nice little switch. I'm using one to provide PoE to a number of cameras and aggregate the feed back to the NVR which ultimately goes over fibre. A little more expensive than the Flex Mini but probably worth it.

What I found was that my Zyxel NWA90AX Wifi 6 access point did not work properly when connected to a Ubiquiti U-POE-at Gigabit PoE+ Injector (802.3at/30W) by about 5m of Cat 6 cabling. It would only work when I reduced the cable length to about 1m. I have various PoE cameras that have worked fine over 5m+ distances.

No. Though I've got a Switch XG 6 PoE in my study baby equipment rack (one of Ubiquit's): 4 x PoE 10G capable copper ports and 2 SFP+ cages.

It's a good little switch that one too. I'm reshuffling the deck, so it's currently out of action for a little while.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

What I found was that my Zyxel NWA90AX Wifi 6 access point did not work properly when connected to a Ubiquiti U-POE-at Gigabit PoE+ Injector (802.3at/30W) by about 5m of Cat 6 cabling. It would only work when I reduced the cable length to about 1m. I have various PoE cameras that have worked fine over 5m+ distances.

My inclination has always been to run from PoE enabled switches (rather than discrete injectors) and I've done so for years using either Netgear (various models), Cisco or Ubiquiti (various models) switches. Never had a compatibility or cable length problem - running a variety of make of PoE cameras, gate intercoms, Cisco IP phones, TP-Link splitters for non-POE devices and miscellaneous other PoE capable devices.

In Suffolk I run about 10 PoE cameras - a mixture of HIKvision mini-PTZ (PTZ-N2404I-DE3) dome cameras and a couple of larger Reolink RLC-423-5MP PTZ cams. These are locally cabled back to Netgear S3300-28X-PoE+ ProSAFE 24-port PoE switches. Most cable runs are between 10 and 25 metres. That particular model and vintage of Netgear switch is no longer made, but they have been good reliable beasts. In the house, its predecessor was killed by my now infamous lightning strike / equipotential surge back in 2019.

For NAS recording etc I use a nearly 7 year old Synology DS1817+ box with 8 Seagate Ironwolf Pro 12TB drives. It's all been humming away for years, and everything is recorded on a 60-day rota.

Netgear GS110TPv3 is a nice compact switch for small deployments: metal case, fanless, 8 PoE+ outputs, but max total 55W so will probably power 4 or 5 APs allowing for cable losses. (U6+ spec says 9 watts)

It has web management, optional cloud management, and a CLI you can enable.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Netgear GS110TPv3 is a nice compact switch for small deployments: metal case, fanless, 8 PoE+ outputs, but max total 55W so will probably power 4 or 5 APs allowing for cable losses. (U6+ spec says 9 watts)

It has web management, optional cloud management, and a CLI you can enable.

I've still got a couple in the cupboard for emergencies. Great little things.

Used them for years. Had two sitting a quasi-stack in Suffolk. When we had that strike/surge, they tack welded themselves together. They were covered in black residue / soot. It was bonkers.

Some of those GS110's doing some interop mockup / testing for someone on here with UI pluggable a few years ago...

With a roll of Global Invacom single-mode cable

Back to back with a MT baby switch

Some of the batshit weird stuff I've connected over PoE...

This a NovAtel GPS/GNSS receiver (for RTK survey and machine guidance correction) that's got a regular ethernet network connection + powered via PoE via a cheap and cheery TP-Link splitter putting out 12Vdc. The splitter is also powering a ViaLite fibre to L-band RF converter for the (remote) GNSS antenna connection for the NovAtel unit.

This was an early mockup / proof of concept, but has subsequently been packaged up neatly in a proper enclosure, rather than the dogs breakfast it is here.

Have you seen the newest UI Switch:

6 x 100G QSFP28 ports
48 x 25G SFP28 ports

Yep just reading their email, from this afternoon. looks like they've just launched.

Look like Ubiquiti are at long last delivering on their pipeline of product which seemed to have stalled from just after the pandemic.

The new U7 Pro access points for example are awesome.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Netgear GS110TPv3 is a nice compact switch for small deployments: metal case, fanless, 8 PoE+ outputs, but max total 55W so will probably power 4 or 5 APs allowing for cable losses. (U6+ spec says 9 watts)

It has web management, optional cloud management, and a CLI you can enable.

Blimey. At an approx 220Watts that's 1500Kwh a year ! £375. I have 3 APs, 2 servers and 6 cameras drawing 150 Watts and I have solar to at least compensate some of the cost!

Was actually replying to this post !

The U7s have some excellent performance but there are quite a few comments on power consumption, heating and fans.

For most home or small business users are they really necessary? The U6 range are more stable, lower poer and cheaper - most homes would be fine with those.

Sure no state secret these WiFi 7 AP's get pretty warm, but then again every Unifi AP (and many others) get warm. I haven't noticed the fan, so don't know what the comment is about. The power draw for a U7 Pro Max is 11.2 watts according to the switch, with a maximum of 13.8 watts recorded. For a Nano HD the avg. draw is 4.8 watts with a maximum of 9 watts. I've only got a single U6+ connected at the moment, and that is drawing 4.3 watts

As these are now operating on clean 6 GHz spectrum with some honking huge 160 MHz wide channels, on measured throughputs the U7 Pro will do about three time the throughput of the Nano HD's.

Depends really what throughputs you need. If you have Gigabit (or higher) FTTP then these will pass that no problem with the right client. If you don't want / need the throughput then sure get a U6+ or similar

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 29-Oct-24 23:20:17)

I think early iterations of Wi-Fi chipsets start off less optimised for power consumption.
The same happened across different vendors with ac and ax except some early models needed say 25W (or at least while booting up).
In other cases vendors tell you about features or options that will be disabled if you try to run it on 15W PoE.

As to 6GHz am still waiting to see if we open up the rest of the band like other regions have done. The consultation was talking about a sharing policy (allowing Mobile operators) and we already have enough to deal with limited non-DFS bands compared other regions.

Also we already shifted TV down via the 700MHz clearance to licence to Mobile.

Edited by prlzx (Wed 30-Oct-24 14:40:32)

In reply to a post by MHC:

The U7s have some excellent performance but there are quite a few comments on power consumption, heating and fans.

For most home or small business users are they really necessary? The U6 range are more stable, lower poer and cheaper - most homes would be fine with those.

Just been watching the B.Friday promos kick out...

There's some decent UI stuff out there. Just spied that NetXL have U7 Pro Max's under £200 (before VAT admittedly).

U7 Pro's are £153 inc. and the U6 Pro is £132 inc.

Not wonderful savings though ... My next items are a further AP although not sure which but wall mount with WiFi6* and another camera and no.

* WiFi 7 APs seem very power hungry and I have a target to reduce power consumption here. A 20W device would use around 180 units/year for example so put a few of those in and my power bill rises dramatically - during the summer solar panels provide 100% some weeks!