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Yes it's our Latvian friends at MikroTik to the rescue...
This time a sub £150 4-port copper 10 Gbps switch in the CRS304-4XG-IN. Review is here from Patrick @ STH
This is a very nice copper alternative to my old time favourite, the MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN but that one has 4 x SFP+ cages, and is a better fit in an all / mostly fibre scenario, though you could use 10GBase-T SFP+ pluggables, but they have a tendency to run on the wam side (to be fair that's a 10GbE copper thing anyway) but that's why we now have the CRS304-4XG-IN.
Enjoy!
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This looks like it could be just what I'm looking for.
I've never bought from Getic before, as they're in Latvia, am I right in assuming there's going to be some sort of import duty to pay?
Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Zen
BT
Now -> Zen (Cityfibre)
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It is available from Linitx, UK based, although it costs a lot more.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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I buy from Getic (previously they were called EuroDK) from time to time.
They are very reputable and reliable in my experience. However be prepared for inbound VAT and and admin charge from the carrier. I find it best to buy several items to defray the cost of the carriage.
If you're not comfortable with that, then the suggestion above from LinITX is a good one. They are good UK distributor too, but rarely the cheapest.
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Did you get the 8-port 10G copper version (£280) or the 8-port SFP+ (£140) version?
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I ended up with this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SFP-Managed-VIMIN-Rackmount...
That is the one we got when we did my partners network. It works ok, once i began to know what I was doing.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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Did you get the 8-port 10G copper version (£280) or the 8-port SFP+ (£140) version?
My bad, the sfp+ version
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That is the one we got when we did my partners network. It works ok, once i began to know what I was doing.
Were you just using it as a bog standard Layer 2 device (ie just plug stuff in) or were you doing some more crafty stuff?
Is the fan in the copper version noisy / run all the time or is it mostly silenco? What’s the management interface like / typical Chinese (sorry you know what I mean) or bit better than that?
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What I'd like to see is an 8-port fanless managed 2.5G switch with PoE, from a reputable vendor.
Not that I have a pressing need to buy one right now 
EDIT: To answer my own question, I found these from TP-LINK:
* TP-LINK SG2210XMP-M2 (8-Port 2.5GBASE-T w/ POE+ and 2-Port 10GE SFP+, Smart Switch)
* TP-LINK SG3210XHP-M2 (8-Port 2.5GBASE-T w/ POE+ and 2-Port 10GE SFP+, L2+ Managed Switch)
* TP-LINK SG3218XP-M2 similar to SG3210XHP-M2 but adds 8x 2.5GBASE-T w/o PoE, rackmount. £370
Unfortunately, only the first of these is fanless.
Edited by candlerb (Wed 13-Nov-24 13:19:06)
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Ubiquiti have one coming shortly.
Edit. Sorry I was thinking of the new Flex Mini 2.5G: which is 5-port x 2.5G with PoE powering the unit. Fanless and not that much moola.
https://techspecs.ui.com/unifi/switching/usw-flex-2-...
Edited by Pheasant (Wed 13-Nov-24 13:17:42)
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I've bought MikroTik and Ubiquiti products from NetXL a few times, they are usually bit cheaper than LinITX.
However they don't have CRS304 stock yet.
I run a few CRS305 with 10G Ethernet SFP+ and some DACs, my 80m rated are around 50C, earlier parts were known to run 70C+. Much cooler lower power ones rated for 100m are starting to be more available STH: 10Gb SFP+ RJ45 100m requires importing from Amazon US or trying your luck on AliExpress.
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NetXL run decent 'Friday special' promo deals (or at least they use to) from time to time, particularly on Ubiquiti gear.
They are also open to quotes / discounts on larger orders. I bought a bunch of U7 Pro Max APs from them in August.
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The import charges don't bother me, it's the cost of doing business these days, although it can be a hassle depending on the carrier apparently.
I may put a list together, there's some bit's I'd like to upgrade and their prices are certainly good.
Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Zen
BT
Now -> Zen (Cityfibre)
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I've bought a fair amount from them without issue before, but yeah this is a lot more than Getic
Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Zen
BT
Now -> Zen (Cityfibre)
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Thank you, I will take a look at them, always good to have another place to buy from.
Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Zen
BT
Now -> Zen (Cityfibre)
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I have talk that there is possiblya UI Ultra 8-port in 2.5GbE in the pipeline. Having tried the GbE Ultra using 4 PoE cameras and a radio link - that is a nice little switch.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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The little USW-Flex units GigE with PoE are my "get out of jail card" switches. I have a little box of them on standby. Really handy to just standup some devices and get running...or stay that way for years.
One of the wrinkles with 10GbE is that you generally drop out of the bottom rung of backwards compatibility. SO its no longer the 10/100/1000 default that we're accustomed but rather 100/1000/2.5G/5G/10G...the bottom rung of 10 Mbps is lopped and chopped.
That should be OK, I mean who sells new product in the 2020's using *only* 10 Mbps interface (yes you read that right not 10/100 just 10 megabits/s). I mean that would be crazy...yeah I'm looking at you Tado. Looking right at you ðŸ˜ðŸ˜…
Edited by Pheasant (Wed 13-Nov-24 21:22:47)
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10mbits should burn in hell in 2024! Actually 100mbit......... there isn't a need for it but some printers i believe still have (stuck with) 100mbit
The worst bit about highspeed networking is that (especially in the fibre side) is that if you want 10gbits - and you have a one pice 4x4 slot left in your machine - you are kinda stuffed ...
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That should be OK, I mean who sells new product in the 2020's using *only* 10 Mbps interface (yes you read that right not 10/100 just 10 megabits/s). I mean that would be crazy...
There is more to this than just new products. I have a VOIP phone in a handy location for a phone, but no cat5 back to the rest of my network for the moment. There is some phone cable over the route and it works a treat at 10M.
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OK that’s definitely an unsupported / weird way of cutting it. You sure you’re not a farmer (at heart). I’ve got a whole role of fencing wire you can run voip on if you want 😂
More seriously; yeah sure there’s always going to be some need, reducing obviously as tech matches on, to support existing gear and segue that with with current kit.
But that’s not my point, which is “new” product shouldn’t be locked into using a 40 year old networking technology. They should at least offer a 30 year old option!! Or even something released in the last 20 years!! 🙃😂
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Thanks for the offer of the fencing wire. I could use that for my field telephones.
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can we add old wireless standards too ?
😂
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10mbits should burn in hell in 2024! Actually 100mbit......... there isn't a need for it but some printers i believe still have (stuck with) 100mbit
Ubiquiti G3 cameras run at 100M.
100M is still a useful fallback as it only requires two out of the four pairs. Sometimes when a cable or connector goes bad, it will still work at 100M (arguably better than not working at all). Or you can multiplex two 100M links onto a single CAT5e cable.
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I stll have a couple of Netgear 10/100 switches - metal case and heavy! One day I will recycle them as they ahve not been used for 20 years.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Ubiquiti G3 cameras run at 100M.
100M is still a useful fallback as it only requires two out of the four pairs. Sometimes when a cable or connector goes bad, it will still work at 100M (arguably better than not working at all). Or you can multiplex two 100M links onto a single CAT5e cable.
G5s are 10/100Mbit too, G4s went to GbE but G5s dropped back. I can see arguments both ways - 100MbE hardware is a little cheaper and the cameras never really go above 8-10Mbit, but long term compztibility? I might prefer to see a GbE port maybe controllable to lock to 100MbE.
edit to removed a typo!
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Edited by MHC (Thu 14-Nov-24 13:47:34)
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100GbE hardware is a little cheaper and the cameras never really go above 8-10Mbit,
EEEK .......... 100GbE is alot 😂🤣🙈(slaps MHC with a fibre cable ðŸ¤)
To be fair, 100mbits is still semi useful as ip cameras don't need gbits, Same for laser printers.
Edited by Taras (Thu 14-Nov-24 11:39:49)
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Personally I’ve not got a beef with new gear running 100 Mbps: it’s lowest rung most 10GBaseT gear (subject of the thread 😂🙃) will drop back to - so you won’t have to get a separate “legacy” switch in most cases for any stuff that tops out at 100 - Meg rather than Gig 😎
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Personally I’ve not got a beef with new gear running 100 Mbps: it’s lowest rung most 10GBaseT gear (subject of the thread 😂🙃) will drop back to - so you won’t have to get a separate “legacy” switch in most cases for any stuff that tops out at 100 - Meg rather than Gig 😎
10Mbps Ethernet is not going anywhere If anything, it is going to become even more commonplace than it is currently as the march of Ethernet as the universal communications bus continues with the X Base-T1 standards. So for example 802.3cg-2019 (aka 10BaseT1L) which allows you to do 10Mbps full duplex over a single twisted pair out to 1000m with PoDL providing up to 50W of power.
On a practical point 100Mbps is more than enough for any streaming device, VOIP or camera, and for VOIP and streaming audio then 10Mbps is more than adequate. The bit rate on a CD is only 1.5Mbps.
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Cheers. Not particularly interested in single pair / vehicular adaptations that compete with CANbus etc. or Industrial Ethernet that are alternatives to Modbus etc. I know there’s excited chatter in some circles about using this on fencing wire and old telephone cables and Cat 3 and stuff, but really in nearly 2025!? Nah
I know 10 Mbps Ethernet is not going anywhere 😂 just like USB 1.0 ain’t budging. That’s not really my point. I’ve made it above, so won’t repeat myself.
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Who'd want to waste a 10G port on a 10M device?
Having said that, I *think* I've seen ethernet ports on powered-down computers which only do 10M for wake-on-LAN. Or perhaps it was a BMC port.
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If you’ve got 10 Mbps (only) devices, new or old, then you’ve got to plug them in somehow though?
“Wasting” a 10G single port / or “wasting” having provide an entire ‘legacy’ switch #debatable.
Ideally in my view, new device manufacturers shouldn’t be releasing new devices with 10 Mbps (only) support - which is my beef - in 2024! If they release 10/100 devices then the debate disappears.
In 2024: 100 Meg is the new 10 Mbps.
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Let me put it another way. In 2024 for new networkable devices on sale right now:
1. Offering 10 Mbits only interface. Hang your heads in shame
2. 10/100 Mbps. Acceptable.
3. 100/1000 and higher versions thereof. Happy days.
Many manufacturers are just plain lazy / cheap. For the sake of sticking in a 10p part in lieu of a 50p part. That’s all it is.
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The point is I could offer a 10Base-T1L video camera with power delivery that can send a H264 1080p picture down 1000m of single twisted pair. Why would I be hanging my head in shame? I can imagine that there is a sizable market for this sort of product. Not having intermediate network switches in my CCTV system is a security win in my books. Would be interesting if a standard port Ethernet port could auto negotiate to 10Base-T1L
Even a video streaming device does not need a 1Gbps connection, with 100Mbps being more than adequate. Typically a 4k h.264 stream only needs about 35Mbps or about 50Mbps if it is HDR. You only need 1Gbps if you have an 8k stream but very few people are doing 8k streams.
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That’s a different point entirely 😉
I’m not talking about funky, specialist forms of long-range 10BaseT. I’m talking about the good old original beast from when Adam was a boy (ok 1990-like) and mass market devices (in 2024) that are just limited to that speed alone. Not even supporting 100BaseT.
Which going back to the topic of my OP - you won’t find any 10GBaseT switches that support just 10BaseT.
Hopefully clear as mud 🤣
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That is the one we got when we did my partners network. It works ok, once i began to know what I was doing.
Were you just using it as a bog standard Layer 2 device (ie just plug stuff in) or were you doing some more crafty stuff?
Is the fan in the copper version noisy / run all the time or is it mostly silenco? What’s the management interface like / typical Chinese (sorry you know what I mean) or bit better than that?
just used as a switch or as you call it, layer 2 . it is fanless, if there is one I can't hear it.
The Ui is not great, well not for me anyway, but then I have never used a managed switch before. I am going to take another look at it when I have time, going to muck around with Vlans.
I was thinking of getting one here, but I don't think it is worth it.
I had a look at the unit and I noticed it is not a VIMIN, but it looks identical, so I presume they are produced by one Chinese company and branded by different companies. There is no mane on it, well not theta i can see or can read.
We got it because it was cheap and thought we have a muck around with fibre.
I will have more of a muck around with it one day.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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