CAT5e Routing

Good Evening,

Sorry for the long post, a bit of backstory for you...

Following on from my previous post here regarding extending my existing G.Fast connection, I have received an e-mail from Openreach advising I can now get... FTTP!

I have therefore decided that when I do have the FTTP service installed I will have the ONT placed in my spare bedroom (which I use as an office) instead of the living room, where the current NTE socket is. Following this change I now need to run a CAT5e cable from said bedroom down into my living room.

I have noticed some trunking which runs from the ceiling in my hallway down into a cupboard which currently contains my Fuse board, and electric meter, this would conveniently be idea to run a length of CAT5e down and drill a small hole into the living room to feed the cable through.

My question is, can I route CAT5e next to electric cables and IF I do does it need to be shielded?

Thanks in advance.

Doesn't need to be shielded and the trunking provides the necessary physical segregation, between the power cabling and the data cabling.

One could imagine that the conduit from the electrical cupboard contains the "electric cables".

In reply to a post by Thinker27:

One could imagine that the conduit from the electrical cupboard contains the "electric cables".

Apologies I should have been clearer, indeed it does.

I am looking to run the CAT5e cable down the same conduit.

Good point might have misread it.

Power cabling and data cabling should *not* be run within the same containment, unless that containment has separate compartments for power and data or you use a conduit let’s say within the containment to keep the cables physically apart.

In that case, if the trunking that contains the power does not have separate compartments within it (and it probably won’t in this situation) then you’d have to run a conduit inside the trunking for the data cable to maintain physical segregation.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In that case, if the trunking that contains the power does not have separate compartments within it (and it probably won’t in this situation) then you’d have to run a conduit inside the trunking for the data cable to maintain physical segregation.

Thanks Pheasant, I had a feeling that was going to be the only option.

I think the gap maybe too small. If so I will have to find another route.

Thanks again.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Power cabling and data cabling should *not* be run within the same containment, unless that containment has separate compartments for power and data or you use a conduit let’s say within the containment to keep the cables physically apart.

What if OP ran a single fibre and used bi-directional optics? That feels like it should be tolerable on the basis that fibre is made of plastic or glass and neither conduct electricity.

I have never known of issues of interference between Cat5e and mains power but as mentioned, it is a possibility. Likely? I don't think so.

If you haven't already run the cable then go for something suitable like Cat6a which is still pretty low-cost.

In reply to a post by smouty:

I have never known of issues of interference between Cat5e and mains power but as mentioned, it is a possibility. Likely? I don't think so.

If you haven't already run the cable then go for something suitable like Cat6a which is still pretty low-cost.

It's really nought to do with interference, but safety (and electrical reg's) of running mains voltages with low voltage comms cabling.

Is there a possibility to install another (much smaller) trunking that follows the same path etc as the power cabling trunking?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by smouty:

I have never known of issues of interference between Cat5e and mains power but as mentioned, it is a possibility. Likely? I don't think so.

If you haven't already run the cable then go for something suitable like Cat6a which is still pretty low-cost.

It's really nought to do with interference, but safety (and electrical reg's) of running mains voltages with low voltage comms cabling.

Correct, it becomes a fire accelerant - even though its effects are low, but can spread if you have a 20m run for instance, so you have two fires instead of one, and a lighten conductor to boot.......

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Is there a possibility to install another (much smaller) trunking that follows the same path etc as the power cabling trunking?

as somebody else alluded to a fibre run in the same trunking and media converters would work.

You refer to both conduit and trunking ... slightly differnt products by same uasge.

Interference unlikely although if you have solar there could be high frequency noise which may cause and issue. Twist in the pair negates most of it though but a screened would be better.

The main concern would be if it is a tight fit - in which case don't. IN large trunking you should be OK but 25mm NO. One reason being that the insulation should be up at 600v - the same as power wiring. Some Cat5e/6/6A is some is not so you cannot take a chance.

Edited by MHC (Sat 14-Dec-24 11:56:43)

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In that case, if the trunking that contains the power does not have separate compartments within it (and it probably won’t in this situation) then you’d have to run a conduit inside the trunking for the data cable to maintain physical segregation.

Thanks Pheasant, I had a feeling that was going to be the only option.

I think the gap maybe too small. If so I will have to find another route.

Thanks again.

For reference, here’s the extract from 528.1 Proximity to Electrical Services in the 18th Ed wiring regs:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Interference unlikely although if you have solar there could be high frequency noise which may cause and issue. Twist in the pair negates most of it though but a screened would be better.

Indeed. In reality regular unshielded twisted pair (UTP) is perfectly fine from a noise immunity perspective.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away when AT&T were trying to convince specifiers and installers of the virtues of putting in their new UTP Cat 3 and later Cat 5 cabling across offices and installations around the world, they would demonstrate by wrapping an entire tote box of cable (305 metres of it) around an office fluorescent light fitting and showing us the BER’s from the analyser as the flicked the lights on and off successively.

Saying that here in lovely Britannia in the present day, there are multicore cables with Cat5e + power conductors, within the same overall cable - often used to connect domestic EV charge point with smarts - the (earthed metal) screening within the cable is how they meet the IET regs (528.1 part vi).

https://www.doncastercables.com/cables/17/78/EV-Ultr...

As used by the installer of our EV Charging socket.

Cheers!

The insulation around the data cores will be rated up at 600v which makes it suitable along with te integral screen.

Perfectly fine running network cable in same trunking as mains cable.

I wouldn’t advocate that, unless you chuck the data cable inside some Kopex etc.

Good Morning,

Apologies for the length of time since my post and this reply.

Thank you to everyone who replied and made suggestions and observations on what to do and what not to do. Apologies for the length of the next bit.

I have made some changes to my plans, and as chance would have it I am in a position to go ahead with some electrical work (that has been outstanding for a while) and the Electrician I am using is happy to run some Cat5e or Cat6 cabling into the living room but via the ceiling (as I have solid wood/laminate flooring and I don't want to have to have it taken up and then put back down again).

I will have two runs (1 to a socket mid way up a wall for a TV to be wall mounted) along with a 2 gang electric socket and an aerial point, and one at ground level on the same wall.

Now I need to decide 1 of 2 options regarding the placement of the new ONT when Openreach come to install it. I am trying to think of the future and if I was to sell the property would be be better.

A: I have it installed where the existing FTTC/PSTN line enters the property on the other side of my living room, then have a length of Cat5e/Cat6 run externally (via the front of the house) into the "office" room and terminate it next to the two runs of internal cable back into the living room. I can connect the ONT to the Router via this external cable.

B: Have the ONT Installed in the "office" room, eliminating the need for the external network cable, but resulting in the ONT being installed into a spare bedroom, which maybe used as such by a new owner should I ever sell this property.

What would you do?

Thanks

just an aside, if the bedrom/office is not ground floor. The fibre cable if dropped from the eves, will go down to ground level into a csp and then back up the wall to the bedroom/office.

if you can get a draw string into the trunking/condiult is for the internal fibre to thru that up to the office and place the ont there.

From the resale point of view, putting the ONT in the 'wrong place' shouldn't be a show stopper, because it can be moved.

In reply to a post by Taras:

just an aside, if the bedrom/office is not ground floor. The fibre cable if dropped from the eves, will go down to ground level into a csp and then back up the wall to the bedroom/office.

if you can get a draw string into the trunking/condiult is for the internal fibre to thru that up to the office and place the ont there.

Hi Taras,

So Openreach will install the CSP at ground level, and if I wanted the ONT higher up would they not run the cable along the front of my house and drill into my spare bedroom/office?

There is no way to go internally from the location of the current PSTN line (which is where I’d assume they would locate the ONT) to my spare room/office.

Thanks

In reply to a post by DFScale:

From the resale point of view, putting the ONT in the 'wrong place' shouldn't be a show stopper, because it can be moved.

Thanks for the info DFScale

In reply to a post by Taras:

just an aside, if the bedrom/office is not ground floor. The fibre cable if dropped from the eves, will go down to ground level into a csp and then back up the wall to the bedroom/office.
<snip>

This. I have done similar, in that not wanting an ethernet cable routed indoors, I did this external run of ethernet up to the eves and into a roofspace for a family member. Mostly hidden behind a downspout for aesthetics. I'm thinking the OP could do the same from the ONT up and into the roofspace/bedroom.

In reply to a post by Adduxi:

This. I have done similar, in that not wanting an ethernet cable routed indoors, I did this external run of ethernet up to the eves and into a roofspace for a family member. Mostly hidden behind a downspout for aesthetics. I'm thinking the OP could do the same from the ONT up and into the roofspace/bedroom.

Hi Adduxi,

Out of interest did you use external grade Cat5e or Cat6 cable?

Thanks

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by Taras:

just an aside, if the bedrom/office is not ground floor. The fibre cable if dropped from the eves, will go down to ground level into a csp and then back up the wall to the bedroom/office.

if you can get a draw string into the trunking/condiult is for the internal fibre to thru that up to the office and place the ont there.

Hi Taras,

So Openreach will install the CSP at ground level, and if I wanted the ONT higher up would they not run the cable along the front of my house and drill into my spare bedroom/office?

Thanks

it depends on the engineer who comes along, if its an OR one the chances are that you will get what you want. If its kelly or mj quinn then hello roulette mode

the thing is you are going to be doing this

fibre

Down then up

Cat cable down from office/bedroom.

What kind of bandwidth do you need in the office compared to the living room?

CSPs can be installed indoors - mine is. The "rule" seems to be - in a location where a ladder is not required for access.

In reply to a post by CJT:

Hi Adduxi,

Out of interest did you use external grade Cat5e or Cat6 cable?

Thanks

From memory (its been a while) it definitely was external cable, and most likely Cat 6, and not CCA btw. It was a bit of a job, working outside up a ladder mind you But worth it really.

Edited by Adduxi (Fri 21-Feb-25 15:17:31)

In reply to a post by Taras:

it depends on the engineer who comes along, if its an OR one the chances are that you will get what you want. If its kelly or mj quinn then hello roulette mode

the thing is you are going to be doing this

fibre

Down then up

Cat cable down from office/bedroom.

What kind of bandwidth do you need in the office compared to the living room?

Well I have opted for 550Mbps down and 70Mbps up so ideally I'd want the full bandwidth in both locations.

In reply to a post by MHC:

CSPs can be installed indoors - mine is. The "rule" seems to be - in a location where a ladder is not required for access.

Hi MHC,

In my case, if that needs to happen they would run the fibre down from the overhead line, into the CSP and then back up the wall to the 1st floor, which may not be ideal for them.

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by MHC:

CSPs can be installed indoors - mine is. The "rule" seems to be - in a location where a ladder is not required for access.

Hi MHC,

In my case, if that needs to happen they would run the fibre down from the overhead line, into the CSP and then back up the wall to the 1st floor, which may not be ideal for them.

The csp could be placed in the bedroom/office rather than outside at ground level.

So you have 3 options

csp ground level, have the ont installed in the bedroom
ont & csp ground level cat5e/cat6 going back up to the bedroom/office
Ont & csp in the bedroom office.

this video shows the fibre splicer in action, and why it can't be done on a ladder plus its £1k worth of equipment (more likely 2k)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW0fm9n8WoU

In reply to a post by Taras:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW0fm9n8WoU

Loved that video fella

In reply to a post by Taras:

The csp could be placed in the bedroom/office rather than outside at ground level.

So you have 3 options

csp ground level, have the ont installed in the bedroom
ont & csp ground level cat5e/cat6 going back up to the bedroom/office
Ont & csp in the bedroom office.

this video shows the fibre splicer in action, and why it can't be done on a ladder plus its £1k worth of equipment (more likely 2k)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW0fm9n8WoU

Thanks Taras for the info,

I just need to decide where to locate the ONT.

I'm back with another question (sorry)

If I go for the option of taking a cable out of the living room, via the outside of the house and back into the "office, would this be suitable cable to use?

In reply to a post by CJT:

I'm back with another question (sorry)

If I go for the option of taking a cable out of the living room, via the outside of the house and back into the "office, would this be suitable cable to use?

One that's categorised for external use, which will generally mean that it's black. But it doesn't follow that all back cables are good for use outside so check the specs carefully. It should be quite obvious, as it's a selling point.

Yes, fine. MAybe a little overkill going for Cat6 screened. Kenable has several Cat5e options too.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Yes, fine. Maybe a little overkill going for Cat6 screened. Kenable has several Cat5e options too.

Thanks MHC in which case this cable looks like a better option?

That should be fine, unless you have screened patch panels/sockets when the screen variant could be used. %e is way easier to work with than 6 plus there is also white available if that would be a better option.

Thanks MHC I’ll have another look.

😁