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Standard User jossmer
(newbie) Wed 25-Feb-09 12:15:37
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World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[link to this post]
 
From the digital region South Yorkshire web site

http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/news.html

World's largest single EU funded municipal project on track to bring high bandwidth broadband access to all in South Yorkshire (Doncaster, Rotherham,Sheffield,Barnsley)
September 2008

Digital Region will enable citizens, business and public sector organisations within South Yorkshire to benefit from services delivered over a world-class broadband infrastructure that will provide a level of access unprecedented in the UK over such a large geographical area.

The project is set to pick up pace as this landmark initiative seeks full ratification from all partners, including Europe, UK government, Yorkshire Forward and the four local authorities in South Yorkshire during October and November 2008.

(has now been ratified )

Set to provide South Yorkshire with an unrivalled level of high bandwidth broadband access for all households and businesses in the region, Digital Region will represent the EUís biggest municipal project in the world with financial backing of Yorkshire Forward and the four local authorities in South Yorkshire. The contract with Thales Transport and Security Limited, who will deliver and manage the project infrastructure, will be ready for signature in October 2008.
( Has now been signed )

The first customers are likely to access the new broadband network in each of the four authorities in Autumn 2009, with the full infrastructure being completed by the end of 2010. Digital Region will put South Yorkshire at the forefront of access to digital technology with a service that will outperform other the majority of UK and rest of Europe.
Read more. http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/index.htm...

This is well under way and will be fibre to cabinet.

So if you live in South Yorkshire its all good stuff smile

Joss
Zen Internet Active pro 8000
[IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/41013470...[/IMG]
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 25-Feb-09 13:02:37
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: jossmer] [link to this post]
 
Still many questions, i.e. is it really going to provider fibre to the cabinet, as in a BT street cabinet. If so what is the impact with regards to BT's own plans, and which broadband providers will the consumer have access to.

If it ends up as a single provider, then people may not find it appealing, i.e. home/hobby customers after a static IP address that costs say £15 a month extra.

The project has lots of potential but the lack of info is of concern before I can say things like Yorkshire is the place to be. Places like Sheffield already have Metro Ethernet options in some new build flats

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
http://www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(committed) Wed 25-Feb-09 13:19:46
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: jossmer] [link to this post]
 
Looks interesting, hope that the infrastructure is delivered better than the text on the website though. It looks like it was written in a bit of a hurry...

World's largest single EU funded municipal project

Is an odd phrase, you shouldn't really be discussing 'world's largest' and 'EU funded' as the EU is hardly likely to fund anything outside the EU and there are far larger non-EU funded municipal projects. Maybe drop the 'world's largest' stuff and replace with 'Single largest EU funded municipal project' easier to read.

with a service that will outperform other the majority of UK and rest of Europe.

You are mistaken thinking FTTC outperforms the rest of Europe, there are projects running FTTP at 1Gbit and there is 100Mbit+ FTTP live too.

Other than that very, very good luck with this. Competition is all good and neither BT nor Virgin Media have enough of it which is why they are so content to sit on their laurel cushioned bottoms.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Wed 25-Feb-09 13:20:39)


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Standard User jossmer
(newbie) Wed 25-Feb-09 13:45:45
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The very same questions you raise I have already emailed to them Andrew. Still waiting on a reply...Thales the main consortium have just built a 20 million pound hi tech centre in Doncaster as the central link.
It remains to be seen what the public consumer will actually get out of this. I have in the past sat on a few committees so will use those links to press for more detail as to what this means for the residential customer.

If and when I get more info I will post.

Joss
Zen Internet Active pro 8000
Standard User 12eason
(committed) Thu 26-Feb-09 20:44:32
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: jossmer] [link to this post]
 
Wow, what a waste of EU funds. BT should have been forced to do this.

_____________________________________________________________One of entanet's Top 5%*****_
     Firenet - V21 - Fast4 - f·2·s - eclipseinternet - Adsl24 - TitanADSL
Standard User s0nic
(learned) Fri 27-Feb-09 12:50:29
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Living in rural South Yorkshire I'm obviously interested in this, but I wish they would update their site more often and let us know what the latest is.

This is probably my only chance of a fast connection.
Standard User bookey
(committed) Tue 03-Mar-09 09:25:30
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Re: Digital Region using Sub-LLU


[re: s0nic] [link to this post]
 
While economically challenging, sub-loop unbundling in its current form may
still have a role to play

6.17 Despite their limitations, we believe the current sub-loop unbundling products may
play a potentially important role, particularly in areas where BT chooses not to
upgrade its network and no other next generation access networks exist. In these
areas, sub-loop unbundling remains the only option for other communications
providers wishing to offer super-fast broadband services without having to build a
completely new network from scratch. While today, the costs are high and the
revenues uncertain, this may not always be the case. The cost side of the equation
may be improved for communications providers who have access to public funding,
such as the Digital Region project planning to use sub-loop unbundling in South
Yorkshire.
Moreover, future cost reductions and a developing market for super-fast
broadband services with new revenue streams may further improve the economic
case for entry using these products.

This is taken from the most recent ofcom statement on BT rolling out FTTx

Paul

Edited by bookey (Tue 03-Mar-09 09:46:59)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(experienced) Thu 23-Apr-09 22:25:00
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: jossmer] [link to this post]
 
Rereading this there's something that concerns me:

http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/summary.html

The DRL Network is offering 25mb+ of bandwidth which is both guaranteed and can be delivered with a range definable Quality of Service attributes. In simple terms, this means the end user gets Ďwhat they pay forí; if the end user requires 10mb they receive a guaranteed 10mb; if they want 5mb or 25mb this is guaranteed. Some services require more than just high-speed connections: this is true of live entertainment such as sports, and critical services such as aspects of tele-medicine. The DRL Network can configure specific connections with Quality of Service attributes that allow these services to be delivered in a seamless way to the end consumer - so no stop-starting or picture-jitter for example when watching a live football match.


Do these guys have any idea how expensive it is to guarantee bandwidth?

How come this is costing 100mill+ to do 546,000 homes? That's a very heavy cost for FTTN, it's well within boundaries of FTTO P2P costing considering the demographics!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 24-Apr-09 07:50:50
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Guaranteed over the digital region fibre network, or it will be priced such that a consumer wanting 25Mbps is paying >£50 a month.

Or these are just QoS options, and consumers will get the usual 25Meg, with 50:1 or more contention.

NOTE: It is a wholesale network

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(experienced) Fri 24-Apr-09 10:53:08
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Guaranteed over the digital region fibre network, or it will be priced such that a consumer wanting 25Mbps is paying >£50 a month.

Or these are just QoS options, and consumers will get the usual 25Meg, with 50:1 or more contention.

NOTE: It is a wholesale network


Yes I realised the stuff about a wholesale network, that makes things much less painful on them and brings costs down much more, depending on the wholesale bitstream pricing.

Well then, go South Yorkshire! While I would have preferred to see FTTO/P as I'm weird like that it's definitely a firm step in the right direction and hopefully will provide a model for other municipal stimulated networks in the UK.
Standard User boggits
(knowledge is power) Fri 24-Apr-09 11:00:15
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Target is that the network will be uncontended to the handover point - how the retailer repackages and manages the interconnect is up to them

Standard User Ignitionnet
(experienced) Fri 24-Apr-09 18:31:34
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: boggits] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by boggits:
Target is that the network will be uncontended to the handover point - how the retailer repackages and manages the interconnect is up to them


Roger that - as it should be really!
Standard User Ignitionnet
(experienced) Fri 24-Apr-09 20:50:58
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: jossmer] [link to this post]
 
An inaccurate and tabloid style story has been done by the BBC on this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8...

It would appear they've started getting feedback on it too given that this has just appeared on the story:

The technology is already available in other parts of Europe
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 31-Aug-09 09:27:56
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal pro


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Looks like the ball is rolling so to speak...

A brief look reveals several applications by KCOM to site street level cabs (with power) been made to Rotherham Council...

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/615F30CA-44...

As KCOM is a sub-contractor in the DLR project I can only assume this is the reason for their applications in Rotherham.

Interestingly most of these cabs are in relatively close proximity to each other.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 31-Aug-09 10:22:20
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
..............................before I can say things like Yorkshire is the place to be.

Yorkshire IS THE PLACE TO BE no matter what the state of the local broadband.
Standard User s0nic
(learned) Tue 24-Nov-09 17:08:44
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Their site has been updated:

http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/checker.php
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 24-Nov-09 17:31:38
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: s0nic] [link to this post]
 
ho goody guess when i can get it.jan2012 .last in line ,thats happens when you live out in the sticks.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 24-Nov-09 17:32:10
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: s0nic] [link to this post]
 
Just waiting to find out who the retailers are and the price of the packages.

Beating someone like TalkTalk LLU is a hard proposition, and while the 25Meg minimum may appeal, how much will it appeal to the average broadband user?

Maybe £5 or £10 a month extra at most I suspect. The number of us willing to pay £40 to £50 will be small.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 23-Mar-10 12:44:56
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Digitalregion still haven't sorted out their ISPs yet, their a new post on their website
(echoes of H20 fibrecity)

My guess would be the following ISPs
Eclipse Internet (part of KCORP who are part of the consortium building digitalregion)
Virginmedia (they already use Cable and Wireless' LLU for non-cable areas)
a smaller ISP such as Entanet etc
NOT plusnet (BT wouldn;t want to use someone else's network)

Whilst I'm posting, does anyone know digitalregion's VDSL is likely to include voice services?
How will they handle local number porting?
I'm looking to change my BT landline addons but wary of the require 12 month contract as I'm supposed to get digitalregion in August
Thanks

GG
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 07-Apr-10 16:12:31
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Is it just me.. or after all this time this thing has been in the planning etc, now they're underway with it, it's almost on the verge of being (I would say obsolete) but surpassed? I'm just concerned that because of this project we get little/no investment by other telcos in the region, and we end up stuck with an outdated incumbent infrastructure in the not too distant future.

On another note.. they a well underway, they've dug up half the streets around here to lay their fibre.. just trying to figure out where the cab is...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 07-Apr-10 16:23:27
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Depends on infrastructure they are using, FTTC can be converted to FTTP at a later date, the 97% coverage in South Yorks is well beyond what current VM/BT next gen projects manage for an area this large.

As with all internet builds, you have to plan ahead, and that is why many are calling for a bigger vision, from all the parties. Alas the UK is run by the accountants, so prudent slow progress is what happens

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RutlandTelecom
(newbie) Tue 27-Apr-10 07:31:27
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
If they connect 500k homes it will cost £63.5m just in connection fees payable to BT PLC Openreach (£127 per connection).
Doesn't add up (if they only have £90m to spend) unless they are relying on the Ofcom consultation to get these fees lowered or will pass on these connection fees to ISPs who in turn pass them on to end users.

When we asked if these costs would be passed on to the ISPs we did not get an answer (we expressed interest in reselling the service - gave up in the end).

We also understand it is SMPF so no voice just broadband i.e. the end user still needs to sort out line rental or the ISP bundles it with WLR.

The concern would be getting major ISPs on board.
Why would they do so compared to BT PLC Openreach FTTC where the costs are much lower - no huge connection fees.

Perhaps it will get as far as cabinets and fibre then flop and be taken over by white knight BT Openreach - become part of the BT PLC FTTC system nicely funded by EU money?
Those connection fees which end users would not like paying would then disappear!

There was a rumour Plus Net (=BT PLC) was going to be an ISP reselling it.

More worrying is the disconnection fees £106 per line in FTTC/subloop unbundling.
If SYDR connect lots of users a liability builds up (500k x £106 = £53m) payable to BT PLC Openreach if these users leave (or the ISP pulls out). But who pays and who gains?


.

Rutland Telecom
Smallest County - Biggest Broadband!
Lyddington: The UK's first deployment of FTTC (subloop unbundling) with MPF
Checkout VDSL speedtest
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 23-Oct-10 09:00:56
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well it all appears to have gone a bit quiet around here regarding the rollout. I've seen new cabs popping up here and there but there's scant news on their website... and the ISP's concerned aren't much better either.

That said there's still only 4 ISP's signed up to provide services.. and they're all business orientated it would seem.

On another note the Digital Region website mentions again and again a guaranteed 25Mbs download, however looking at the ISP's concerned the guarantee is is for 10Mbs, unless you pay for a particular business product with one of the ISP's where you get 15Mbs guarantees.

Which again leaves me feeling that especially with BT's Infinity push.. by the time we see this come to fruition it'll be old hat technology.. unless there's some inherent scalability. And we in South Yorkshire will be left with this expensive white elephant and BT or other Telcos won't come near for some considerable time.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 23-Oct-10 13:05:29
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Same technology aspect in terms of VDSL, so line speeds should be similar. Only difference with Infinity is that once all current plans are complete around 17% of the roll-out will have fibre direct to the home.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User alexatkin
(learned) Thu 28-Oct-10 04:45:39
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I have been talking with with someone directly involved with Digital Region Ltd as well as asking questions via e-mail to Digital Region Broadband.

What it seems to be is that DRL guarantee a minimum of 25Mbit per customer, but that is basically network capacity per customer, nothing to do with your ISPs contention ratios.

Basically, the network was design so you could buy Internet from one service, and TV from another, and presumably VoIP from yet another - all coming in via the same VDSL connection. This makes sense with them using a fully managed router (in bridge mode) as presumably they assign each service to one of the ethernet ports. Even some ADSL2+ providers function the same today where their VoIP service is a separate virtual network from their Internet, presumably so they can operate QoS on the router and guarantee VoIP has no contention.

The 25Mbit minimum is so that VoIP and/or TV will always have at LEAST 25Mbit between them on your line, as obviously anyone delivering those services HAS to guarantee no contention at all for those services so it would be no good having 50:1 contention on the network, it could break those services completely. An ISP service on the other hand are still left to decide their own contention ratios although I think its safe to say they will always try to keep performance up or lose customers.

Its also worth noting the 10Mbit guarantee Ripwire quotes on their site actually refers to a minimum SYNC speed, not actual throughput. The idea being that if your line cannot obtain a 10Mbit minimum sync you are allowed to refuse connection, any greater than that and you are tied into a 12 month contract. Likewise, DRL have a 15Mbit minimum, the same rules apply.

As for residential services, I believe all the ISPs do provide them but none are advertised on their websites yet. The prices I know of are Ripwire at £25/month and DRB is £35/month. DRB claim you can cancel your land line once you are connected with them and use VoIP instead (even porting your BT number over to the service), saving you line rental. Ripwire are unsure about that, but I suspect they will eventually discover you can do the same.

As for activation costs, the burden lies on the customer for now. Ripwire charge £75 inc VAT, DRB charge £75 also but there is some confusion over if theirs is inc or exc VAT. According to the person I have been talking to at DRL, BT charge slightly more than £75 to wire up the connection so as usual, its BTs pockets we are lining even when getting as far away from their services as possible.

Also I believe anyone can order fibre to the home on Digital Region, but its likely to cost a fortune as you will have to pay the cost of laying the fibre from the cabinet to your house. Its generally businesses who will do that I think.

Edited by alexatkin (Thu 28-Oct-10 05:10:11)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Oct-10 09:26:26
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
On dropping voice service, I'm not so sure.

Also FTTP has been possible for 10+ years, just costs a fortune for dedicated fibre between property and POP.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 03-Nov-10 20:21:58
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
FYI
Whilst DRBL will allow you to port your telephone number to their VOIP service (and then cancel the BT line) apparently you will not be able to port the number back...

anon coward
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 15-Nov-10 05:46:30
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
Seems Digital Region Broadband has hiked their published prices, and quite significantly..

The top tier.. Business 40, now costs from £85 ex vat/month.. up from a previous price of £45 ex vat

The mid tier.. Homeworker 40 has gone up from £40 ex vat/month to £50 ex vat/month

The basic.. Basic 20 (as the name suggests a 20Mbps product) has stayed fixed at £30 ex vat/month

http://www.digitalregionbroadband.co.uk/internet-sol... for current pricing

Google cached copy.. http://goo.gl/tmlau
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 10-Dec-10 15:25:10
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Seem Digital Region Broadband (now Digital City Broadband) has kiked their prices again..

The basic 20Mb Broadband has had a name change and is now called Business 20, this now costs £45 per month

The Mid Tier Homeworker 40 has gone up from £50/Month ex vat to £70/Month

The Higher tier Business 40 has gone up from £85/Month ex vat to £100/Month

So effectively over the last couple of months their prices have doubled!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 10-Dec-10 16:04:14
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Digital Region retails via a number of providers

http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/servproviders.html

of which Digital Region City is just one.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 10-Dec-10 22:00:14
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yeah unfortunately though..

Ask24 only seems to provide to multi tenanted units like student accommodation or flats etc.
Lyndos seems to specialise in high end business services.
Ripwire, doesn't seem to want to respond to enquiry e-mails and NoD32 goes ape on certain parts of their website.
DCB are the only provider that had any information that has posted anything remotely like package information.

Digital Region's own website seems stagnant again... all looks kinda doomed to me!
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sat 11-Dec-10 19:36:07
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
the "Open Access" model fails again.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Dec-10 18:10:56
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Interesting article in the Yorkshire Post.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/BT-chief-denies-...

Edited by RandomJointer (Wed 29-Dec-10 18:14:15)

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 29-Dec-10 18:47:16
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
LOL. " it has so far failed to attract any major internet firms on board to sell the 25-40Mbs-speed packages ". The 25 minimum may be an unnecessary constraint, BT just went the other way from 15 to 5.

another failure of the Open Access model. Open Access = Zero Retail Access.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Dec-10 18:56:32
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
More from 'The Post'


"Accounts published this week revealed a "material uncertainty" over the scheme's viability and highlighted issues between project managers and Thales, the private contractor carrying out much of the physical work."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/100m-fast-intern...

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 29-Dec-10 19:42:52
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
"Digital Region Ltd has appointed an experienced team, led by Thales UK and including Alcatel-Lucent and KCOM, to build, manage and operate the state-of-the-art fibre-optic cable infrastructure on behalf of Digital Region. Collectively these companies have extensive experience delivering large-scale networks and communications projects."

interesting Telco choice !

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Dec-10 22:34:26
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
When firms start accusing BT of sabotage it's a sure sign of problems.

Being a Telco is not as easy as it sounds. A RDA quango and various councils playing at being a telco sounds like a recipe for interesting times.

Now that Yorkshire Forward has been scrapped by the government, I reckon things could get messy here as the drains start coming up.

Edited by RandomJointer (Wed 29-Dec-10 22:40:56)

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sun 02-Jan-11 04:21:27
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
It's hardly surprising that there's been little public take up.... the basic fact remains that even in South Yorkshire next to NOBODY has heard of this network. There has been effectivley zero marketing, and the website has been an out-of-date non-functioning mess.. I see it's just had another update however, but it's still basically useless!

Even for those who are somewhat savvy it's a nightmare trying to get and maintain a dialogue with any of the so-called ISP's.. there's basically NO information about consumer broadband on any of their sites, sending e-mails often gets no reply.. phone calls unanswered etc, and I'm a potential customer trying to find out what I need to know...

I entered into discussion with one ISP, I've even got a MAC from BT (it will expire in about a week or so)... but I seem to have lost contact with the ISP concerned, ok I know it's been the festive season.. but this doesn't really bode well for any kind of half functioning support either, should I eventually manage to get signed up.

Unfortunately Mr Average J. Bloggs, even if he did have some knowledge of the network is very unlikely to jump through the hoops I have done so far, and still be in the situation of being really no closer to provision. I'm half inclined to accept the BT retentions sweetener. Damned shame to be honest!
Standard User wirelesspacman
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 02-Jan-11 10:25:07
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
Just because you are paranoid, it does not mean that no one is out to get you!

Being anti-competitive is in BT's DNA as they have had decades of practice at it. They are so good at it now, I doubt they even realise they are doing it!

Having said that (and especially with KCOM on board as a partnet) then that BT chap is right that there should have been no surprises - their price list is after all public data and it should have been expected that BT Infinity would move in.

Trying to start up an "open access" network when they have no (local) experience of being an ISP, and presumably no retail offering themselves, will not be easy in the best of times. I suspect that unless they can offer something fundamentally different, that cannot be replicated over BT's network (which I guess is not possible since I seem to remember that this is basically FTTC) then they will have major problems interesting other ISPs to use their network.

My best suggestion for them would be to try and interest smaller (more niche) and ideally more local ISPs to support the project. Mind you, whether the cost structure would allow sufficient margin for such ISPs is another matter.

Peter

Loop Scorpio Ltd
Ledbury Broadband; Highnam Broadand; Newent Broadband; Painswick Broadband
=======================
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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 04-Jan-11 17:51:43
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I just got some information back from Digital Region Ltd, after filling in a form on their new website... This is what they say..

Thank you for your email and interest in Digital Region. I have checked our build schedule and your postcode should by the end of March. To connect you will have do so through one of our ISPís.

We have four ISP's signed up at the moment, with more in the pipeline, including a well known national ISP.


Which is interesting as Ripwire's sign-up process indicates I can get service now!.
Will be interested to hear who this national ISP is however...
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 05-Jan-11 22:44:24
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Will be interested to hear who this national ISP is howeve


Talk Talk mentioned it in their strategy presentation.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 06-Jan-11 00:37:30
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
Will be interested to hear who this national ISP is howeve


Talk Talk mentioned it in their strategy presentation.


Bah.. of all the possibles it could have been... :-/
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Jan-11 12:06:05
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Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
BT anti-competitive, or just doing what every other commercial firm will do and try to protect itself?

Must agree the pricing was all public, so unless BT has been charging lots for stuff on top of the pricelist then not sure what Ofcom will do. There may be a point over the number database, but to be honest I don't think that even in BT itself this sort of thing is that organised. There are so many layers, that keeping this up to date and tracking numbers that have gone full LLU/WLR etc makes it more complex.

If Digital Region cannot make money then it is bad for the UK as a whole, but the warning signs are there, as in people don't want to pay a fortune, and believe it or not, millions have email addresses with [email protected] and are reticent to change. The practice also (not just from BT) are retaining customers by signing them up to long contracts in return for better deals/upgrades also means that average user may not be totally free to move.

If Digital Region offered something unique like all football matches in the UK live for a flat fee per month it would get more interest, but to be frank to the average person getting 3Meg downloads, why is 25Meg so important? Remember I said average, 90% of us posting here are well outside the average.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User swampster
(committed) Sat 08-Jan-11 02:48:22
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Interesting news re: DRL

Digital Region Ltd.: Digital Region Transforms Super-fast Broadband Offering for the Digitally Excluded

Jan 07, 2011 (M2 PRESSWIRE via COMTEX) -- South Yorkshire: Super-fast broadband pioneer Digital Region Ltd. (www.digitalregion.co.uk) and Box Top Solutions, Inc. (www.boxtop.tv), a leading Silicon Valley application developer, have today announced their agreement to trial BoxTop's unique application platform which transforms how broadband services are paid for and enables carriers and content providers to provide unconnected households with free super-fast broadband through their digital television.

The Android-based platform, dubbed FreeBand, is scheduled for its first market trial in the second quarter of this year on Digital Region's super-fast fibre network. The platform turns the existing 'user-pays' broadband model upside down by employing a unique software metering engine that enables entertainment companies, merchants, and providers of educational and government services to pay, on a dynamic basis, the bandwidth charges for end users in order to reach them. In effect this creates the world's first '0800' application for broadband access to the internet.

The FreeBand model creates a sustainable business cycle in which multiple providers are each able to pay for just a portion of the total monthly bandwidth charges required to reach new, unconnected customers. As a result, end users can benefit from free broadband and healthcare providers, local government, businesses and communities, amongst others, can reach those who previously had no broadband connection. In the UK alone there are approximately 10 million people who currently do not have internet access.



As a result the three most common reasons that consumers lack broadband internet access, or choose not to have it, are all resolved at once - the high cost of buying a computer, the non-intuitive experience it represents and the cost and long-term contract commitment demanded by today's broadband offerings. FreeBand eliminates the need for a computer by providing an Android-enabled device that connects to the user's digital television, creating an intuitive, easily understood internet experience.

Customers use a low-cost keyboard or mouse, or even their remote control, to navigate icons displayed on the television screen through which the customer may access provider-sponsored applications. Connectivity to the internet is provided by Digital Region through its super-fast fibre broadband service.

FreeBand's first and exclusive trial with Digital Region later this year is expected to enable previously unconnected users in South Yorkshire to access commercial offerings and governmental services including video, music, news, email, telehealth, distance learning, videoconferencing and social networking.


Full article at: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-digital-region-ltd-di...

Great idea, if it works. Although not sure how it might affect more traditional ISP business models...

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 10-Jan-11 10:14:15
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: swampster] [link to this post]
 
Only content providers I see engaging in this, are ones that want your credit card details anyway

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User dgp
(newbie) Mon 17-Jan-11 12:23:40
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Dear XXXX
I have now checked the build schedule with Thales.
> Unfortunately your location is currently omitted from the current initial build of the project.
> As I am sure that you will understand all projects have a finite amount of funds and this project is no exception.
>
> Over and above the financial constraints there were strict parameters regarding the Network design and coverage:
>
> . The build is to achieve 80% coverage during the funded phase . There
> is the objective to reach 97% coverage; this to be funded from revenue.
> . Factors that determined the design included:
> o It is based on BT's PCP (Cabinet) infrastructure o BT PCP's served
> from Exchanges outside the S Yorkshire region to be excluded o BT
> PCP's that have less than 50 live subscribers to be excluded
>
> With the above the network coverage will unfortunately not reach your address.
>
> However it is our aspiration, funded from revenue, to achieve near to 100% coverage; This phase of the project will be looked at after June 2012.
>
> I appreciate that this response may not give you the answer that you are looking for but it is the reality of the parameters of the network that we are working under.
> Kind regards
> Lesley Statham


Info

Digital Region Limited
T: 0114 286XXXXX

This is obviously why they dropped the original post code checker which said I would get it in December 2012 so I think this means never as far as I am concerned. Interestingly Lesley is on the same Exchange as I am which seems rather odd.

You really do have to question their business model. In Sheffield they have concentrated on those areas where they are going to struggle to attract paying customers or get people to switch from Sky if they are to compete on content. They are even laying cables in areas already covered by Virgin Media. Unless the price is right, people just won't sign up and it'll become another White Elephant like Sheffield City Airport.
Standard User pob
(member) Thu 20-Jan-11 18:11:13
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: dgp] [link to this post]
 
The BT cabinet that I am connected to has just gone live on the Digital Region project (the original postcode checker said Oct 2010). I've placed an order for the service, just got to wait for an activation date.
I am lucky as a couple of the cabinet on my estate won't be upgraded until September 2012 at the earliest, but the one I am on has already been done.

--
Phil Brown, Sheffield, UK
O2 Broadband 8050/1209
Standard User pob
(member) Mon 31-Jan-11 20:13:06
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: pob] [link to this post]
 
Got connected to Digital Region today via Ripwire. A couple of early speed test results:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1136402506.png

My Broadband Speed Test

Not sure why the thinkbroadband tests are coming out so much slower. Downloads from microsoft.com are coming down at 3.3MB/sec

--
Phil Brown, Sheffield, UK
O2 Broadband 8050/1209
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 31-Jan-11 20:51:58
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: dgp] [link to this post]
 
I have ha the same reply has DGP has had and i live in Stocksbrige with 7000 internet users.Looks to me that this is going belly up what a waste of money.
Standard User swampster
(committed) Thu 18-Aug-11 06:43:29
Print Post

Re: World's largest single EU funded municipal project


[re: pob] [link to this post]
 
Pretty much the same experience here.. the TBB speedchecker has been reporting anything from mediocre to dire speeds for the most part in the last 3 days I've been connected to DR (via Origin Broadband). Yet speedtest.net has (after the first few hours at least) been reporting the performance to be around where I'd expect it to be (my speedwave). And downloads have been in the region of 4MB/sec

However the last few tests I've done on TBB appear to be more indicative of the performance of my connection. So not sure what's been going on...

Edited by swampster (Thu 18-Aug-11 12:55:34)

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