General Discussion
  >> Other Broadband Technologies


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Tue 03-Nov-15 20:27:12
Print Post

Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[link to this post]
 
So my village is fed up on waiting for bt to improve our speed. We are thinking about forming a community partnership with openreach/bt. Anyways my fibre enabled cabinet is about 5km away but luckily we own some of the land and we know the other farmers that do so getting permission to mole plow etc shouldn't be a problem, on that not would it be cheaper to mole plow or fix the fibre to the existing poles? (not sure if this is even an option). I've been looking online for what other community's have done and i saw that FTTdp/G.fast probably looks like out best bet, does anyone know how well it performs, and what packages are available for it, can you order normal infinity 2? Does the speed vs distance work pretty much the same as fttc? If we we're to install a Dp at the top of the village it would have to travel about 400m to my house via copper and the longest it would have to travel is about 700m what speeds should/could i expect at that distance. Also does anyone know the rough cost, if we we're to mole plow and lay the fibre ourselves that would surely save alot of money right. Does anyone know how much the fibre cable/ducting would cost for about 5km. Thanks for reading hopefully people have some answers.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Nov-15 20:43:27
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
FTTdp/G.fast is still in trials and no community led roll-outs have happened.

Are you perhaps referring to native FTTP (Fibre to the Home)?
Or more likely VDSL2 from a new cabinet inserted in a location that can serve properties.

At 700m if using VDSL2 you can expect as shown at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband.... 32Mbps and likely more as the table is a pessimistic view.

As for how much, depends on how ducting is already in place, how much is silted up, whether roadworks needed when working etc. Cabinets start at around £25,000 for community funding but can go a lot higher.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Tue 03-Nov-15 20:48:38
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Oh i never knew they were still in trials. If we were to install FTTP could people still order FTTC packages like infinity 2? I think FTTP would probably be alot cheaper than FTTC if it costs £25,000 for a cabinet! What about FTTrn? or is that the same as FTTdp. Also how much would it cost just for 5km Fibre/ducting, just a rough estimate on the price would be fine.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Nov-15 20:55:39
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Which would be cheaper depends very much on the area, remember for FTTP the fibre has to get to a central point, and then radiate out to every premise. Invariably FTTC is cheaper, but equation does vary.

FTTP has a limited set of providers selling it, i.e. no Sky or TalkTalk, but Infinity 1 and Infinity 2 are still available, plus extra 3 and 4 with higher speeds.

FTTrN is basically a new VDSL2 cabinet in a location suitable for your cluster of properties usually with a smaller cabinet.

5km of brand new ducting and fibre tubing with blowing at £75/m is 5000 * £75 or £375,000. Mid range figure as some say £50/m others £150/m to install ducting and all the other bits needed, e.g. chambers along the way, blow and splice fibre. Usually there is pre-existing ducting which reduces costs dramatically. If able to do this across your own land and agree to a way leave for future maintenance then costs for a soft dig would be a lot less and you could do a lot of this yourselves as a community

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Tue 03-Nov-15 21:08:52
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply, yeah we could dig all of the ducting in ourselves, if you look ay my village from an Ariel view the village is like a stright line, the left side is all fields/gardens and the right side is the houses/roads, we could easily dig a trench to each house and then mole plough to the cabinet. We would have to pass through 1 road on the way to the cabinet. £375,000? i was talking to someone on a different forum and he said fibre was as cheap as toilet roll per meter lol. So would Fttrn probbaly be cheaper than FTTC? and would it deliver the same speed/distance as FTTC.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Nov-15 21:17:16
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
The fibre itself is cheap, its the tubing and ducting that it goes in that costs the money, or more correctly digging the trench to put it in.

Easy way ask a local builder how much to dig an 18 inch deep, 9 inch deep wide trench for 500m and lay 75mm PVC pipe and then fill it back in and make good. Two prices, one in soft ground and then prepare for the price if its down a pavement.

FTTrN IS FTTC, but a slightly cheaper cabinet, still needs the same power and fibre requirements. It would still be VDSL2 coming down the copper wires so same speeds

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Tue 03-Nov-15 21:25:40
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yeah well like i said if we were to dig and lay all the ducting ourselves that would save a hell of alot of money right, one company http://www.tstrenching.co.uk/ use mole plow to dig and lay the ducting, they clam to of done 5km in as little as 3 days. Also if we we're do come in from the left side(behind the village) we would only need to dig about 15meters with shovels through peoples gardens, the only time we would have to go through any solid ground would be over 1 road.

So FTTrn would probably be a better bet than FTTC. Also i know this is a bit beyond the point but if we were to get FTTP installed could people still buy FTTC packages like infinity 1/2 as some people wouldn't want to pay the price for infinity 3/4. I'm going to get out local counciler that is in charge of broadband to get in touch with openreach and see if we can get something sorted.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Nov-15 23:05:36
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
FTTrN IS FTTC just a different sized VDSL2 Cabinet

Open reach FTTP is available at speeds of 40 Meg, 80, 200 Meg and 300 Meg with the lowest two speeds matching price also of the 40 and 80 Meg VDSL2 packages.

If able to arrange the digging yourself it reduces cost a lot, but way leave e.g. access to fix a severed fibre needs to be considered

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Nov-15 08:35:17
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
All this talk of digging and duct, don't forget whoever does it in the end, install draw ropes too wink

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 10:05:18
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hopefully if everything went perfectly there would be a handbook and delivery of Openreach spec ducting and drum of draw rope for that purpose.

http://www.ravenstonedale.org/features/fellendbroadb... is the example they will be looking to emulate if partnering with Openreach, rather than others like Gigaclear or going it alone.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 10:50:28
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ahh right i see. I'm guessing unlike FTTC the 80 and 40 speeds will not be affected by length ? If i was to order the 40Mbps package i would get the 40. Way leave? Whats that. we would have access to a fibre enabled cabinet which is about 5km away.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 11:12:25
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Why does it show at the end of that link only 60Mbps? I thought they had FTTP the speed would be pretty much maximum due to the line being completely fibre?
Standard User Jax2
(member) Wed 04-Nov-15 11:42:42
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
I am in the fortunate position of being on native FTTP on an 80Mbps package and get an actual download speed of 72Mbps. Others would have to explain why, presumably overheads of some sort. The main thing is my internet is so much better than it was that difference is of no consequence.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 12:18:07
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Jax2] [link to this post]
 
Awesome 72Mbps would be amazing, yeah i've read online that FTTP isn't affected by distance. I live about 10km from my exchange and 5km away from my fibre cabinet. I think most people in my village would be opting for the infinity 2 package BT offers. My current download speed is 0.47Mbps and my next door neighbor gets 0.22Mbps!! We're willing to do anything to get FTTP.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 12:33:27
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Easy

Person testing obviously only ordered the up to 76 Mbps Infinity 1 service.
The screen shot is also from an iPhone (not sure which model e.g. older ones will be slower) so test is over Wi-Fi.

We are seeing the vast majority buying the up to 40 or up to 80 Mbps services even in areas where FTTP is available, and even when Gigaclear and Hyperoptic roll-out to an area many opt for the lower speed packages, to save a few pound per month.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 12:35:51
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Wayleave - a legal document detailing the rights of a utility firm to dig up land at a future date to fix a fault.

The FTTP products connect at the speed you buy, so you buy a 40 Mbps service and the maximum speed test will be 38 Mbps due to the way that protocols carrying the traffic are formed of layers with some small inefficiencies as you convert between the different layers.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Nov-15 13:08:08
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Why does it show at the end of that link only 60Mbps? I thought they had FTTP the speed would be pretty much maximum due to the line being completely fibre?

I would guess the speed would be limited by what specific product that customer had purchased from their chosen ISP.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Nov-15 13:15:26
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
we would have access to a fibre enabled cabinet which is about 5km away.

But it is more than likely that the cabinet isn't where your fibre would need to be fed from.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Nov-15 13:15:53
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Interesting link, thank you.

Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 14:07:35
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ahh right i see, that makes sense. Thanks for all the replies, you've been very useful
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 14:09:39
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
How do you mean?
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 14:11:43
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I see, well like i said we own some of the land to the fibre cabnet and we know the other people that own the rest of the land so that shouldn't be an issue i dont think.
Standard User gt94sss2
(experienced) Wed 04-Nov-15 14:18:18
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Hopefully if everything went perfectly there would be a handbook and delivery of Openreach spec ducting and drum of draw rope for that purpose.


Something like this? (Openreach also have one covering copper networks)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 16:09:33
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
The generic fibre source points are called aggregation nodes and while often very close a fibre cabinet they are not guaranteed to be, it might be closer or it might be further away.

FTTP does NOT operate from the same fibre strand as the cabinet, it has its own dedicated fibre link, i.e. its possible for the fibre cabinet to be demolished, but FTTP services continue to operate as they don't use any of the components in the cabinets.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 16:11:28
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
The warning is that some people if they see this as an opportunity may charge for the wayleave e.g. hosting a mobile mast on a bit of land can be worth a few £1000 a year, and rents are often paid for ducting crossing private land, if free wayleaves can be arranged with ALL landowners it makes life easier and a lot hinges on the community effect.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Jax2
(member) Wed 04-Nov-15 16:19:37
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
How do you mean?

The fibre does not necessarily come in anything like the same route as the existing copper structure. My copper comes in from my telephone exchange via my cabinet some 3 miles to the west of me while my fibre comes in from the east from a hub about 20 miles away. They only follow the same route for the last half mile or so.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 17:13:11
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think i understand what your saying,i'm pretty new to all this, i've just started looking into a few days ago. when you put down the fibre from the aggregation node to our village would that be a single fibre cable/ducting? if that makes sense, and then would that fibre be split up into multiple fibres at our village to each house? Also does anyone have like a webpages/guide as to how hows all this works?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 18:12:58
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/ masses of picture of the standard FTTP kit in use and in particular http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/wgc... which shows the layout Openreach use.

This layout is likely to change for new builds in the future and will be more like what is called FoD2 in one of our blog articles at http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2015/09/g-fast-and-fo... in particular the image http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

If looking to do more reading, Openreach use GPON rather than point to point fibre, i.e. fibre strands are shared at some points in the network, so while each house has its own fibre, once they reach a common point the light from each fibre is combined onto one fibre using a passive splitter and this reduces the number of fibres needed in the main core of the network.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 20:00:21
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks alot andrew! You've been so helpful here. I am trying to do as much research on this as i can. Yeah i thought you could share a fibre, that would reduce the cost by alot i would of thought. Going to try an get in contact with BT asap, hopefully this time next year i will be enjoying FTTP smile
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 20:35:18
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just done some reading on GPON, it says the max speed is 2.5Gbps. and then a split rate of either 64 or 128. Does this mean that every property would receive the 2.5 Gbps? or would it work out lets say i had 15 splits on the network would that be 2.5Gbps divided by 15 which would equal 166Mbps for each of the 15 properties?
Standard User Michael_Chare
(experienced) Wed 04-Nov-15 20:43:19
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The cost very much depends on where the cable is laid.

Where I live, when Gigaclear lay a fibre cable across a field, or round the edge they just dig a trench a couple of feet deep and lay the cable in it. This can be done quite quickly with a digger. They only use ducts under roads.

The cable has the fibres in it. They did not use blown fibre. Joining the fibre looks quite time consuming, and I suspect the cable layout keeps the number of joints to a minimum.

The installation work was done by two teams. Wingnut who laid the cables, and Boxcom who did the joints, installed and commioned the electronics. There was a Gigaclear project manager who planned the layout and got the wayleaves.

Michael Chare
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:15:57
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Potentially yes you could have 2 Gbps and once the next GPON standard XGPON roll-outs that will increase.

But to manage contention they usually use slower speeds, so the maximum download today on FTTP from Openreach is 300 Mbps (others do can do Gigabit and some in Japan run it at 2 Gbps)

So yes across the fibre segment the guarantee will depend on the split but unless you are paying a few hundred per month or more per month each you will NOT get 1 Gbps guaranteed to the Internet anyway.

Contention is what makes consumer broadband cheap, otherwise you are into the leased line 1:1 contention pricing.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:18:59
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Given the amount of work already under way I would say a year is optimistic, just warning so you can manage responses, there is a lot of FTTP in the pipeline for areas like Wales that will keep the build teams very busy

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:24:56
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yeah i know BT only offer 330Mbps currently smile So does splitting the fibre decrease the speed? what speed could i expect if the single fibre is split into 15 for the 15 houses?
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:26:26
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yeah i figured it could take some time. Thanks for the reply
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:30:17
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
GPON means rather than 300 individual fibres needing to be carried all the way back to the handover point to the providers, only a few are needed.

The speed you could expect if you buy the 300 Mbps connection speed product is 300 Mbps, but there is a possibility that at peak times the speed will be less and will depend on what everyone else is doing.

If this limitation is not good enough then you need to talk to a Point to Point fibre provider like Gigaclear

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:39:31
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ahh right i see, no i think 300Mbps would be more than enough and if in the future that could rise to 2.5Gbps that would make it very future proof. Considering i'm currently on 0.50Mbs. 300Mbps i could download about 135Gb per hour which is ridiculous as i can only download about 200Mb per hour currently!
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:42:41
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The NFU and CLA had an agreement with BT over the wayleave rental costs, which differed slightly, depending on the way the copper was used (core network, exchange -> cabinet, cabinet -> DP, DP -> home).

IIRC, the standard annual rental charge (paid by BT to the landowner) was £500 per km for exchange -> cabinet cabling.

Extra charges for each underground jointbox. IIRC, B4RN put these about every 500m - but they were blowing fibre into the ducts.

I recall calculating the impact on B4RN if their core routes couldn't be done with free wayleaves: it came out as adding around one-third to everyone's monthly costs. Obviously worth doing the community-building part here!

That Fell End page was good. I hadn't seen it before, and hadn't realised how much private trenching they'd done. Did it all get handed over to BT at completion of the project?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:49:56
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Believe it was handed over

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Nov-15 21:54:53
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
Yeah i know BT only offer 330Mbps currently smile So does splitting the fibre decrease the speed? what speed could i expect if the single fibre is split into 15 for the 15 houses?


I think BT are aiming for splits of no more than 32 homes from one fibre.

When BT sell you an FTTx package, you buy a headline speed (eg up to 80Mbps) and an prioritised speed (eg up to 30Mbps), although no-one really talks about it. The prioritised speed seems to be the one BT will target if things are getting congested.

You could think of it as a 30Mbps package, with burst speeds of 80Mbps possible.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Nov-15 22:19:14
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Where I live, when Gigaclear lay a fibre cable across a field, or round the edge they just dig a trench a couple of feet deep and lay the cable in it. This can be done quite quickly with a digger. They only use ducts under roads.

Really ? How very slipshod of them, if time has taught Openreach anything, it's that inducted UG runs are a recipe for disaster.

Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 22:30:26
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I believe there is 15 premises in my village that would need connected, so we would just need to buy a single fibre from the fibre cabinet which is 5km away and bring that to the center of the village to a splitter node and then each person would need to pay for a fibre cable to there premises? Is that how it would work?
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Wed 04-Nov-15 22:35:27
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Cool, thanks for the reply. Shouldn't the cable be ducted the whole way? alot of people have started using mole plough for deploying the ducting.The way leavers shouldn't take too long as my farm owns like 2km of the 5km distance to the fibre cabinet smileand my dad knows the other land owners.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-15 23:02:43
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
You never install a single strand as fibre is delicate and can break, so fibre cables come in various sizes of multiple fibres

The final drop from the distribution point to the home is covered by the £99 install fee each person who orders pays. The final drop is usually fairly short so a lot depends on the actual arrangement on the ground

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(experienced) Wed 04-Nov-15 23:19:55
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
Cool, thanks for the reply. Shouldn't the cable be ducted the whole way? alot of people have started using mole plough for deploying the ducting.The way leavers shouldn't take too long as my farm owns like 2km of the 5km distance to the fibre cabinet smileand my dad knows the other land owners.

I am telling you what I have seen Gigaclear do. Digging a trench in a field is not that difficult or expensive. If ducts are used, the cable has to be pulled through the ducts. You could ask B4RN what they have done.

As a different point, you need to work out exactly how the back haul would work and cost.

Gigaclear use Genexis equipment both in the home and the cabinet.. You could ask B4RN what they do.

How many properties could you possibly connect, and how many would sign up?

Michael Chare
Standard User Fastman2
(committed) Wed 04-Nov-15 23:20:09
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
I have pm you regarding your requirement --
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Thu 05-Nov-15 12:08:44
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Mike

If you only have 15 premises to connect you are correct FTTP would be better than a FTTC Cabinet. A Cab would usually serve a minimum of 96 customers so would 'waste' a lot of capacity, whereas the Final FTTP splitter would serve up to 32 customers and doesn't need powering so s cheaper option IF FTTP has already been provided in the head end exchange. Which village is it and someone will be able to say whether there is FTTP in the area. ( Otherwise the cost of the FTTP head-end would add quite a bit to the cost but could be used for other clusters of customers in the same area).

The fibre you would run to the village would be a fibre cable with multiple fibres in it. These are standard sizes and the smallest may be 8 fibres. The unused ones would be available for other clusters en-route or as spares if something happened to the working one ( usually a pair are used).
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-15 14:47:53
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
I see. My exchange is aspatria in cumbria. How much would FTTP head end cost roughly. Also why does it need to be FTTP enables, most of my village would just be buying the infinity 2 package that bt offers.

Edited by MikeJG (Thu 05-Nov-15 16:23:25)

Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Nov-15 19:23:50
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Also why does it need to be FTTP enables

It doesn't. Woukd just need to build the FTTP network from an aggregation node ( not the Fibre cab), which incidentally does not need to serve the same FTTC cab as your pcp is connected to, or even be in the same exchange area, which could change the financials considerably especially if your near the edge of your exchange area.

Edited by Ribble (Thu 05-Nov-15 19:32:18)

Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-15 20:26:54
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Ahh right i see (kinda i am new to all this so i'm just getting use to all this new terminology). How do i find out where the aggregation node is?

Edited by MikeJG (Thu 05-Nov-15 20:31:37)

Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Nov-15 21:09:47
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Openreach NGA network planner will know.
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-15 21:16:55
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Do i need to contact them? if so how do i do so?
Standard User partial
(experienced) Thu 05-Nov-15 21:20:05
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Most of these community and local altco deployments are directly burying the fibre tubes. You can't moleplough duct 54 in or 'micro trench' it.

It has raised my eyebrows in the past. However, they are not worried about duct space for future expansion, it's cheap, it isn't catastrophic when water gets into the tubes, (and water will get into the tubes) and it hasn't got a taped up or resin filled frontage tee every 5 metres. smile

The Fell End Openreach job looked like mole ploughed duct 100 to me so they will have some hope in the future.

Edited by partial (Thu 05-Nov-15 21:27:23)

Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Nov-15 21:29:15
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Start Here
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-15 21:33:52
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Thanks alot
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Thu 05-Nov-15 23:34:46
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Ribble

I was meaning you would need an existing FTTP headend somewhere in the area. I have spent some time brosing the broadband map But cannot see any sign of FTTP in the area.

Carlisle & Penrith have none according to the constituency maps. Workington has a small amount but I cannot spot where it is. Maybe Andrew or you can give us some idea? Workington is certainly within reach at 26miles if the headend is there.

If there is no headend OR would have to provide one and that would cost.

There is FTTC in Aspartia so there is likely to be an aggregation node but whether it is the 'right' side for this village is the question.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-Nov-15 08:56:48
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Easy

Person testing obviously only ordered the up to 76 Mbps Infinity 1 service.
Perhaps the 76 Mbps Infinity 2 service? Infinity 1 is 38 Mbps.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-15 09:04:43
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
FTTP head-ends are the same ones as FTTC head-ends i.e. they can be shared

So in the context of the FTTP roll-out to 15 premises in this instance it is a red-herring

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 06-Nov-15 09:25:17
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Aspatria cab are connected to Wigton head end .

Edited by Ribble (Fri 06-Nov-15 09:35:58)

Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-15 10:34:40
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
So if i want FTTP i would need to dig all the way to wigton?
Standard User MikeJG
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-15 10:35:32
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So if i want FTTP where would i need to dig to?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-15 10:46:53
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Where Openreach say you need to

Usually the point that is an existing aggregation node, in short to find out where you need to start entering into the formal processes via the Openreach website.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Fri 06-Nov-15 10:49:53
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Mike

No you would have to dig to the aggregation node, this is 'usually' in a roadside cable chamber and there will be one somewhere around Aspartia as it is where the FTTC cabinets serving the village will connnect to the fibre network back to Wigton.

However there may be a closer one in the direction of Wigton depending on which village ( Hamlet) you are in. I could spot several potentials for your location on the Broadband map (From home page on this site) but they are on different isdes of Aspatia.

The aggregation node has connectivity all the way back to the headend where the 'contol' of the different services come from.

Openreach will be able to tell you where the aggregation nodes are sited so you could then pick the easiest one to reach. ( Digging across Aspartia to one on the other side may/will be harder than a further distance only through fields.)
Standard User MikeJG
(learned) Fri 06-Nov-15 11:13:16
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Alright thanks for the help. I live at sunderland near bothel. I never realised that you could choose the closest aggregation node and dig to that.
Standard User MikeJG
(learned) Fri 06-Nov-15 11:17:36
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Alright. I dont think i will be the one who will be leading our prjoect, it will be someone from our local parish council.
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Fri 06-Nov-15 11:25:39
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Mike

I suspect there may be an aggregation node in Plumbland or Threapland as there is someone with FTTC in Threapland and there is 'usually' an Aggreagtion node near a cabinet.

This wouldn't be far at all, otherwise the next likely spot is near the exchange by Aspartia Station. But only OR can tell you exactly where they are.
Standard User MikeJG
(learned) Fri 06-Nov-15 11:31:26
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Yeah well thats what i was thinking, if you see the map area from sunderland to moota my farm owns all of that land apart from 1 field. And he knows all of the landowners up to plumbland, so way leaves shouldn't be a problem. Also Bothel will have FTTC by the end of the year, so could there possibly be a aggregation node there? Like i said to MrSaffron i dont think i will be leading our project, i will probably leave that up to this person on the local parish council. I'll get him to email openreach asap

Edited by MikeJG (Fri 06-Nov-15 11:34:23)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 06-Nov-15 14:59:21
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
I suppose we will just have to wait and see what 25 years 'life' does to it.

Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-Nov-15 17:57:30
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MikeJG:
I believe there is 15 premises in my village that would need connected, so we would just need to buy a single fibre from the fibre cabinet which is 5km away and bring that to the center of the village to a splitter node and then each person would need to pay for a fibre cable to there premises? Is that how it would work?


Kind of. The money spent won't really be in terms of "one fibre from x to y". It is more about getting a single cable, with multiple fibres, from x to y. Some fibres for service, some for expansion, and some spare for breakages.

BT have been playing with their design of FTTP-on-Demand, trying to make it cheaper to deploy. With that design, the plan for your village would likely depend on how many poles (or chambers) are needed to supply the 15 premises.

I could see them coming up with a design where they put an 8-way splitter back at the aggregation node, and using 4 fibres from that splitter for service to your village. The 4 fibres might be carried in a cable of 12 fibres, or of 24 fibres (they seem to come in multiples of 12). Or perhaps in 4 separate cables in the duct.

On arrival in your village, they could install 4 separate 4-way splitters on different poles - each pole then providing service to 4 properties.

Then each person would pay for the connection from the pole to the home.

On the other hand, they might decide that there is scope for the fibre to your village to be an extension to the spine, with a future plan to go beyond your village to the next one. That could change plans around.
Standard User MikeJG
(learned) Fri 06-Nov-15 18:19:24
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Thanks alot for the reply. Yeah i think my village would be the last village they'd be deploying from. If we place the splitter node to the back of the village in one of my fields, the cables wouldn't have to travel too far to each premises, but if we were to position the 4 splitter nodes into 4 different locations the fibre to from the splitter to the house would only be like 25m for each property, not sure if you can do that though. Do you know how you go about getting ducting under roads? if the aggregation node is near the fibre cabinet the ducting would have to travel under 1 road to the splitter node. Also can you use existing poles for fibre? I read about some lightweight fibre down in cornwall, i can see using existing poles being cheaper and potentially reducin the distance from the splitter nodes to each house.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-15 19:18:04
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Existing telephone poles can be used for fibre, but not if they are dual utility poles carrying electricity supply too, and in the height the cable crosses the road is to the old standard the poles may need replacing to ensure the cabling crosses any roads at the new mandated height.

The lightweight fibre in tubes is most common in Cornwall but now in lots of other places around the UK too.

As for crossing road, if its ducting and none is already present then its dig the road up time.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MikeJG
(learned) Fri 06-Nov-15 20:10:39
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I believe my current copper cables are the only ones on the poles, my electricity comes in on different poles, is it possible to pin the cables yourself or would openreach have to do it? if so i can see this being more costly than ducting, also i'm guessing the lightweight fibre would be more expensive
Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 06-Nov-15 20:49:17
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Openreach would do the pole work and actual cabling , or their contractor.

Edited by Ribble (Fri 06-Nov-15 20:50:21)

Standard User nemeth782
(member) Fri 18-Dec-15 16:25:23
Print Post

Re: Possible Fibre options for my village? FTTdp/G.Fast?


[re: MikeJG] [link to this post]
 
Openreach are not going to let you do any work to their network yourself. They will not let you hang cables from their poles.

They also won't let you install a fibre line/trench to their cabinet and give yourself FTTP.

If you want it, they will do the work for you, for an incredible price (the £375,000 you were quoted earlier in this thread seems about right) but they won't let you deploy your own FTTP.

You might be able to persuade them to supply FTTC to a weatherproof locked box next to the cabinet, then put your own router and fibre connection in that which you trench to your house. As far as they are concerned they would just be doing a provide to the box. What you do your side of the demarcation is up to you.

FTTPoD has been discontinued for now though, so you're unlikely to get FTTP, even if your box is a meter from the cabinet.

They would also supply a leased line to a box, you could then run whatever behind that, but leased lines are not cheap.

What you are suggesting is like saying to Ford that you really want a Mondeo but it seems too expensive, your mate has a welder, so can you please come visit their factory with your own bits of metal and your mates welder and make a Mondeo using their production line. They would tell you "No" in no uncertain terms.

Edited by nemeth782 (Fri 18-Dec-15 16:28:11)

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to