In reply to a post by hoopla:

More of a problem is surge protection. About half of our power cuts seem to be followed by a voltage surge on (or before) power resumption. Over time, I've added more surge protection, but it still kills stuff from time to time.

I believe SPD's now mandatory under the latest 18th edition regs. but is worthwhile retrofit in my opinion - having been victim too some crazy lightning related surges.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Personally I wouldn't bother with anything less than 1000 to 1500VA to hold up a (small) server, router, modem etc. but only because I expect a self run time of around 50 minutes.

Our electricity company kept upping their game by giving longer and longer power cuts, to the point that my Liebert 1000VA unit used to run flat.
I connected a 500VA UPS to two 100Ah 12v batteries (which were maintained by a separate 'smart' charger). The load was only about 100 watts, so it ought to last about 20 hours at a pinch.
Not to be outdone, they sent us a nice little 3 day hour power cut.
At that point I admitted defeat and went back to the Leibert. Less hassle.

Edited by hoopla (Mon 08-Mar-21 21:25:59)

In reply to a post by hoopla:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Personally I wouldn't bother with anything less than 1000 to 1500VA to hold up a (small) server, router, modem etc. but only because I expect a self run time of around 50 minutes.

Our electricity company kept upping their game by giving longer and longer power cuts, to the point that my Liebert 1000VA unit used to run flat.
I connected a 500VA UPS to two 100Ah 12v batteries (which were maintained by a separate 'smart' charger). The load was only about 100 watts, so it ought to last about 20 hours at a pinch.
Not to be outdone, they sent us a nice little 3 day hour power cut.
At that point I admitted defeat and went back to the Leibert. Less hassle.

Proper UPS batteries should be “deep cycle” types. I’m not talking about the garbage they put in the apc consumer [censored] from Amazon but the real deal. Proper online UPS. Repurposed auto batteries work to a degree but they don’t take kindly to long term deep discharge due to the cell plate construction, and will fail after a few good deep runs.

In reply to a post by hoopla:

More of a problem is surge protection. About half of our power cuts seem to be followed by a voltage surge on (or before) power resumption. Over time, I've added more surge protection, but it still kills stuff from time to time.

Then your surge protectors are not adequate for the job. If you're buying the sort of £10-£20 [censored] that is sold in Argos and the like, you might as well not bother.

Invest in some proper power protection from the likes of APC - incidentally the UPS you have is likely really good at that job too... it's often part of the spec...

Everything you need to know about UPS's is written in this excellent guide by the Linux Project.

It's an old guide, but still very valid. Surge protectors are like 'Level 1' defence. Line Conditioners are 'Level 2' defence reducing any spikes (but not troughs - brown outs in power supply) and also doing surge protection. You can think of UPSs as 'Level 3', which fully condition the line but also allow stuff to power down gracefully. Unless you have space the size of 3 American fridges for batteries, don't expect a UPS to last hours on end though.

Personally I use 2 UPSs, one for my server rack (downstairs) and one for my AV centre (upstairs). I use an Eaton 5PX in the rack, and just a cheapo Eaton Ellipse Pro for the AV stuff, which has a Pi connected to it via USB and I manage everything with NUT.

As I use a PoE switch to power Wifi, the modem and the entire network AP's run off the UPS so I don't lose intertubes. I have seen a power cut about once a year, but it's quite surprising how dirty the mains power signal is. And nothing has ever blown in my equipment since using the UPSs.

The more rackable, networky ones can be expensive new (it's not really needed) but I wanted mine tucked away in the rack, so I picked up a 2nd hand 5PX. The Ellipses however are only for up to 1000W, but do the job *just fine*, and can be found for £100-150 or so. Happy as Larry with em.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by hoopla:

More of a problem is surge protection. About half of our power cuts seem to be followed by a voltage surge on (or before) power resumption. Over time, I've added more surge protection, but it still kills stuff from time to time.

I believe SPD's now mandatory under the latest 18th edition regs. but is worthwhile retrofit in my opinion - having been victim too some crazy lightning related surges.

Recommended, not mandatory.

2 posts from 2 different users, 12 hours apart.

1 post advising don't buy a [censored] UPS from Amazon, likes an APC, as they are rubbish.
Next post advising don't buy a [censored] surge protector, buy a good 1 like APC.

Personally I like APC kit and think it's perfectly fine in a domestic environment.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

2 posts from 2 different users, 12 hours apart.

1 post advising don't buy a [censored] UPS from Amazon, likes an APC, as they are rubbish.
Next post advising don't buy a [censored] surge protector, buy a good 1 like APC.

Personally I like APC kit and think it's perfectly fine in a domestic environment.

Personally I no longer really rate APC, especially the consumer stuff. Once upon a time, moons ago, they were quite good (perhaps before Schneider bought them). I suppose what coloured my experience were batteries that invariably died after only 3 or so years, sometimes sooner. If you can’t get at least 5 to 8 years from a UPS battery then it’s a pretty poor show.

In terms of bang for buck value, quality and features, APC can definitely be bettered; Eaton and Liebert (now branded Vertiv) are better quality units. At the value end both Riello and TrippLite are solid performers.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Personally I no longer really rate APC, especially the consumer stuff. Once upon a time, moons ago, they were quite good (perhaps before Schneider bought them). I suppose what coloured my experience were batteries that invariably died after only 3 or so years, sometimes sooner. If you can’t get at least 5 to 8 years from a UPS battery then it’s a pretty poor show.

In terms of bang for buck value, quality and features, APC can definitely be bettered; Eaton and Liebert (now branded Vertiv) are better quality units. At the value end both Riello and TrippLite are solid performers.

My experience is the opposite, I had an older all metal APC Back Pro, I agree built better than the current plastic ones they do, however batteries only lasted 3 years or so, they were roasted with a float voltage exceeding 14 volts. It wasn't a faulty unit either as their forum had other owners check the float voltage and they were all the same, almost deliberately on the high side for a float voltage so the battery just dried out after a few years. The newer ones (e.g. black plastic Back-UPS Pro models with LCD display) I've had going on the same battery for 7 years so far, and it self tests fine and I've tested running a load and it goes for it's rated time. The float voltage on these shows ~13.7 which is basically spot on for a float voltage.

I will definitely check out the other ones you mention when it comes due for replacing the UPS, as there is no doubt about it, they aren't built to the same standard, and given they are potentially shorting out high voltage spikes from the mains and designed to sacrifice themselves in a worse case scenario and take the pain I don't think being all plastic is the best material to make them from either!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I believe SPD's now mandatory under the latest 18th edition regs. but is worthwhile retrofit in my opinion - having been victim too some crazy lightning related surges.

Was that with an underground or overhead power supply?