LLU or 21cn

Hi,
I am on Bransgore exchange on the ADSL24 home30 package, i get 3mb download speed altho BT says I should only get 1mb . I am on a long line that isnt that stable, however Talk Talk has just enabled LLU and Samknows now says 21cn is enabled. So question is, which is the best way to go ?
Talk Talk is dreadful according to this site and everything I hear about them, so would I be wise to change to a Talk talk reseller and if so who would folk reccommend? I would love to get away from BT and their stupid profiling system.

I am happy with ADSL24

Thanks for any help/suggestions .

Nick.

ADSL24 can get you moved to ADSL2+, and the IP Profiling system on that has been changed this year. It is now an almost instant update and on most lines doesn't poach as much speed from the connection. So I suggest you suck it and see.

The noise margin problem remains I'm afraid.

Once you are on ADSL2+, with any ISP, you may find you end up with a lower connection speed than now. It will also almost certainly be even more unstable. It depends to some extent on your router. However ADSL24, or yourself given a suitable router, could then force the connection to ADSL2, which could give the current level of stability with a small speed increase and the new IP Profiling.

If you tell us the router make and model, and see if you can find and post your line stats, (see here for help), we should be able to be a bit more definite.

If you are happy with Adsl24 it looks like they are launching an Opal/TalkTalk product soon.

Link

Hi Robertos,

Thanks for the reply, I used to use a 2wire but changed a year or so ago to a Thomson speedtouch 585, so that I could use Dmt tool to reset my sync speed.
I get problems with noise margin some evenings and weekends that I put down to electrical equipment in the local pub which is near me. I live in the sticks so few houses .

line stats.
Link Information

Uptime: 1 day, 22:05:32

Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 3.776

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 524,67 / 5,14

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 18,5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,5 / 53,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 19,0 / 4,5

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 7.895 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 8 / 752.948

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 186

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 165

Edited by deleted (Wed 28-Dec-11 17:41:09)

Thanks gmoorc
registered an interest on this on their website some while ago, but as yet have not heard anything.

Interesting stats there Nick.

What is the untweaked target margin? Looks as though the problem with it when you were through Enta is fixed?

The connection speed is a bit down on what I would expect, quite independent of any external noise bursts. Have you ever looked into the state of your phone wiring?

The error seconds are remarkably high though for 2 days running, but the FECs, HECs and CRCs are very low. Do you ever use the DMT graphing of noise margin?

You won't benefit from ADSL2+ but may gain a bit from ADSL2 only.

Surely the high number of error seconds suggests a line fault of some sort.. To the OP: can you disconnect everything except one filtered phone. Ring 17070 then choose option 2 for a quiet line test. Any crackles, noise or hiss? Telephone your voice provider and ask them to resolve the fault, making no mention of internet at all.

Thanks but have done all that, get absolutely no joy from BT. When it rains heavily , water gets into the underground conduit out in the road and causes problems.

Those stats are untweaked, last used tool about 3 weeks ago when wet n windy and connection speed dropped to 2.7 mb. With heavy rain, water gets into the conduit out in the road and causes problems. BT deny this but a friendly engineer ( who found the problem when we were getting billed for other peoples calls) told me this is very common. There is also aluminium cabling down the road which they also deny apparently.
The problem when at Enta was never sorted, carried over to Murphx until early this year when I suddenly was getting synch speeds over 4mb, and snr dropped below 10 db , which it never did before. I assumed BT had done something at the exchange or somewhere and it had cleared up.
Phone wiring at home is good, sorted that ages ago. Have no home phone, no extension wiring, and 2 mtr cable to router from BT socket.
Have used the DMT monitor tool, but to be honest I dont really understand what its telling me.

So TT LLU maybe the way to go thru a reseller?

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Dec-11 13:18:50)

Sometime soon, ADSL24 is going to offer a combined telephone and internet service, using the Talk Talk network, Send them a email and ask them when it is coming. i did ask some info about it, but as soon as they said it was Talk Talk network and fully LLU, I lost interest.


but then i have more choice here.

BT ADSL2+ system is rubbish if you got a long line, My speed lost over nearly two megabits when they updated my exchange, from 3.5 to under 2.

It;s not the TalkTalk network really - we simply utilise their ADSL2+ MSAN equipment (which is not TalkTalk manufactured in any case) and then it goes in to our suppliers network rather than theirs so completely unfiltered!

P.S. We just launched it today - http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/otherisp/f/4078200-...

This will prove to be a considerable saving for many as take in to account a customer on the Home 30 package (£19.90) plus BT line rental (£14.60) = £34.50/month and we can offer the LLU line rental/broadband with an extra 20GB peak usage (50 instead of 30) for over £10 less a month at £23.90.

James

Hi james,
was looking at this offering of yours but, it being talk talk put me off.

However 2 questions, if i move to this package, can i keep my existing bt number ? Which i want to, and secondly , what sort of extras are you going to give as i have been loyal customer of adsl24 for couple of years or so, with entanet and latterly murphx?

Oh and a 3rd... as zyborg says bt adsl2+ is rubbish, and i have read lots of reports of people having a worse connection speed when moved to it, is this likely to be the same in my case on a long line on bransgore exchange?

regards

Nick

Thanks Zyborg,

that was my worry too, about speed loss.

Cheers

I would first of all really state that it only uses the TT equipment in the exchange. Nothing else at all is managed/handled by TT and after the exchange equipment it goes in to our network which is completely unfiltered and in no way like TT Retail... It's the same we do with our C&W and BE services, we utilise their exchange equipment but not their retail network. We utilise their wholesale network

It's a completely different kettle of fish compared to the TT retail package.

Yes, you keep the existing number. We can't really offer any price discount as the cost of the package is on low margins to get the price we advertise it at. You probably don't know (or care) but resellers like ADSL24 make around £1-2 per month on your subscription fee (the rest goes to the supplier/wholesaler/BT) so it barely covers the cost of our overheads so minimal profit all round - hence why we can't provide any extra discounts. We do offer free setup at the moment saving you £49.

We do have the ability to tweak the SNR margin on the line to increase speed/stability so we can optimise your line which is not easily done on the BT network due to their DLM systems.

James

Thanks for yr reply,

However am i likely to suffer any speed loss on this package/network, I can force resets using dmt. If i,m likely to be worse off then its not worth it despite the saving.

In reply to a post by nickscs:

Thanks Zyborg,

that was my worry too, about speed loss.

Cheers

I am now on the Cable and wireless network via ADSL24, knocks the socks of Bt rubbish, about 1.5megabit more than what I did with BT, unlimited connection, no silly profiling and it is cheaper than BT, but now BT seems to force people to take their phone service as well. I pay just under £20 a month for my C&W broadband from ADSL24 and because it is only partly unbundled I can choose who I want for my phone service and it is easier to move if I want to, which i don't at the moment.


If i went for the Complete 50, I would save just over £6 a month and in my opinion i would be changing to a service that offers less than what I get now, back to limits on how much i can use and when.

i also get free evening and weekend calls with home phone, not that i use them much to be honest, but they are there. I get a pretty good deal from first telecom, just over a tenner a month line rental and free evening and weekend calls.

i know that James say that it don't go through Talk Talk network, but even so it is still too close for my liking and i don't want to give Talk Talk any money, directly or indirectly, bad enough giving BT money

Oh yes and the 12 month contract is a put off as well as fully unbundled service.


Saying all that, i hope it goes well for ADSl24 as they are one of the better Isps i have been with and as long as they offer me the service i want and I don't really need to cut costs, then i will stay with them.

i can't see myself bothering with Fibre when Bt eventually rolls it out here, so i will stay on the C&W network, unless ADSL24 decide to ditch it.

No, there should be no reason why you would lose any speed. Your line is the same, and it can be set to connect at ADSL, ADSL2 or ADSL2+ whatever your line supports best.

James

Your situation is slightly different as you have access to our unlimited LLU service already. There are thousands who have no LLU but the Opal LLU service and thus they are currently on a capped BT service, so a faster ADSL2+ connection, higher usage cap, and a cost saving is beneficial for those customers

one last question James, if I go for this home 50 plus will I need to contact bt to move my line? I was on their £10 a month package which ran out last month ( december sometime). I had an email from them saying this was being done away with and my line rental would increase to £13. I dont use a home phone really.

I am happy with adsl24 too, but do need a larger download, and would love to ditch bt. I dont use a landline phone at all, as i have unlimited calls to landlines on my mobile service for less than I pay bt for line rental.

My exchange sadly doesnt have any other service in it., and no mention of c&w moving in ,anywhere on the web. And I badly need to save on my outgoings, so this package seems the way to go.

Thanks for your help

regards

Nick

No, you don't need to contact your current provider at all. When you place the order for Complete 50/50 Plus with us, we take the order and inform the current provider of the date we are switching you over. They then send you a letter to confirm when you account with them will close. Simple

James

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

Your situation is slightly different as you have access to our unlimited LLU service already. There are thousands who have no LLU but the Opal LLU service and thus they are currently on a capped BT service, so a faster ADSL2+ connection, higher usage cap, and a cost saving is beneficial for those customers

That is true, very true, but saying that even if I did not have the C&W network, I am pretty sure i would still stay away from TT network.

but yes as long as the network is reliable, this is TT after all and their equipment seems to fail around here a lot, then it got to be better than Bt.

the main problem is that it is fully unbundled and people need to made aware that changing back to another Isp if they need to is a pain in the neck and may even cost them money plus the lost of their phone/broadband for a few days.

In reply to a post by nickscs:

I am happy with adsl24 too, but do need a larger download, and would love to ditch bt. I dont use a landline phone at all, as i have unlimited calls to landlines on my mobile service for less than I pay bt for line rental.

My exchange sadly doesnt have any other service in it., and no mention of c&w moving in ,anywhere on the web. And I badly need to save on my outgoings, so this package seems the way to go.

Thanks for your help

regards

Nick

That is a shame your exchange don't have Cable and wireless. i suppose i am lucky that we got C&W here, a shame the exchange was not closer to me to give me a little bit more speed, but such is life.

Maybe the TT option from ADSl24 is the best option for you, but bear in mind that you will be on a fully unbundled system.

I don't think i would do that even if I did not have the c&W option, not sure what i would have done mind you.

We've done away with a lot of the potential downfalls because we do normal line rental too, so it's quite easy for us to convert an MPF line back to the BT network for £4.99 and simultaneously activate any broadband service for the same date, so no downtime.

We've thought about this long and hard and have as many bases covered as possible. It's no longer complicated or expensive.

James

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

We've done away with a lot of the potential downfalls because we do normal line rental too, so it's quite easy for us to convert an MPF line back to the BT network for £4.99 and simultaneously activate any broadband service for the same date, so no downtime.

We've thought about this long and hard and have as many bases covered as possible. It's no longer complicated or expensive.

James

i am glad you thought of that and it makes a change to be honest. the larger Isps like Sky and Talk Talk don't tell people about the consequences and they don't make it easy for people to change if they need to.

So well done for that.

Sorry to hijack,

James, I am currently with Be, does your "Premium Plus" package use the same LLU equipment as them?

Thanks

The Premum Plus uses the same exchange equipment but not their network so it's a different service

Sorry to leap in on this... I was interested in your comment regarding the "£10 a month" package with BT...

Who told you it had finished? It's still running you just have to re contract for a Year with them...

My parents did...

Link here: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc...

Sorry to leap in on this... I was interested in your comment regarding the "£10 a month" package with BT...

Who told you it had finished? It's still running you just have to re contract for a Year with them...

My parents did...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, had an email from BT last month telling me so, as part of my evenings and weekends package, which I paid quarterly.

When I spoke to them ( BT) yesterday, regarding moving my line rental from them, they were offering me alsorts to stay. Including paying up front for the year and staying on the package deal i`m on, even tho they are doing away with it. Told em to get stuffed. Hate BT with a passion.

Hi,

Scheduled for change-over to ADSL24 `s Complete50 plus package tomorrow. ( Feb 1st), so fingers crossed for a problem free transition and better speeds.



Nick

Hi Nick

Just so you know the Complete 50 profile is on stable by default so it will have an SNR of 12dB, so whilst you may not see any speed difference immediately, just drop us a ticket asking for the SNR to be lowered to 6dB and we can get this done asap - that will then give you the best possible speed.

James

Hi James,

Ticket opened.

Thanks

Nick

James

Thanks for your call last night, superb customer service.

Many thanks

Nick.

Very welcome.

James

In reply to a post by nickscs:

James

Thanks for your call last night, superb customer service.

Many thanks

Nick.

That is what I love about ADSL24.

My parents did...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, had an email from BT last month telling me so, as part of my evenings and weekends package, which I paid quarterly.

When I spoke to them ( BT) yesterday, regarding moving my line rental from them, they were offering me alsorts to stay. Including paying up front for the year and staying on the package deal i`m on, even tho they are doing away with it. Told em to get stuffed. Hate BT with a passion.

Fair point, I was just curious, we had an e-mail encouraging us to renew it.. Which at £10.00 per month in one lump sum we did. However next time our ADSL is up for renewal we will be looking elsewhere

PS Sorry for the VERY late reply.