C & W reseller - Possible switch over from SKY LLU

As the title suggests, I'm thinking of moving over from Sky LLU (im not on the SVBN, still have BT line) onto one of the C&W resellers.

My exchange EACOS only has Sky,TT, AOL and C&W LLU presence.
It is due to have Fibre enabled end of Sept 2012.

I've been on LLU for several years now first with UKO who provided me with 15998/1024 @ 7db with a Linksys AM200 Modem.
Then with Sky where I get 17500-16000/1150 @7db depending on what coding gain i set on my Billion 7402nx.

For reference Broadcom (834GT) & Infineon (Draytek 120) modems only achieve about 15500 @ 7db on my line, probably as UKO and Sky use a Conexant/Globespan chipset better matching the Billion.

I have a few minor reasons for wanting to leave Sky - inability to freely use own router (more of a problem with MER), blocking of legitimate filehosting sites eg Netload (granted via the IWF proxy, but a block to me none the less, resulting in me not even having access to my own legitimate files)

I am thinking of moving to TT aswell, but wondered what the C&W LLU is like.
Some q's.....

1) Can C&W set a 6 or 7db snr on the line ? As I understand it the default is 9db, which will be no good for me as i'm used to 7db and the associated speed.
2) Can the interleave depth be reduced to 8ms ?
3) What chipset does C&W usually have in the exchange ?
4) Does the line run the same speed 24/7 like i'm used to on Sky, eg no congestion at peak times ?
5) Can I use my own modem/router combo freely ?
6) Is there any filtering/blocking of the filehosting sites ?

Thanks if anyone can answer some of my q's

If the IWF are blocking sites, this will apply to all ISPs.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

1) Can C&W set a 6 or 7db snr on the line ? As I understand it the default is 9db, which will be no good for me as i'm used to 7db and the associated speed.

C&W announced a pilot to enable this for customers and then never delivered - rather like a lot of their other announcements on their LLU platform. This means that in practice you will not be able to get anything better than 9dB.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

2) Can the interleave depth be reduced to 8ms ?

No.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

3) What chipset does C&W usually have in the exchange ?

They do not disclose this information. For the most part their equipment is fairly old but does perform reasonably well where it doesn't have problems with particular routers.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

4) Does the line run the same speed 24/7 like i'm used to on Sky, eg no congestion at peak times ?

The answer to this will depend upon who you buy it from as all C&W provide is the exchange port and backhaul to whichever wholesale supplier is being used. If the ISP has plenty of capacity then the answer should be yes.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

5) Can I use my own modem/router combo freely ?

Yes - unless the ISP you choose says otherwise.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

6) Is there any filtering/blocking of the filehosting sites ?

If the ISP imposes it but otherwise no.

Wrong. The IWF list is not used by most small ISPs unless they are simply reselling a managed product from one of the 5 or so largest ISPs.

For the most part the IWF list is not currently an issue unless you are trying to access material that is in itself illegal to access.

I was with ADSL24 C&W service for 2 years and never had any problem and I have a long line.
A mate of mine is a avid games player and uses a C&W reseller and things are ok with him, he is a lot closer to the exchange than me mind you.

Here the service is reliable, the problems my mate had was due to phone line, not the broadband service and he went through hell with that, be cause BT openreach had very little interest, nor did Bt for that matter.

As for the SNR, i got myself a Netgear DG 834 router from Ebay stuck DGteam third party firmware on it and lowered the SNR my side.

The blocking is a reason I don't want to go with large providers and why at the moment I am staying away from fibre.

Thanks for the info.

The lack of being able to reduce the interleave depth could be a nail in the coffin for me as im an avid gamer too !!
I already know C&W dont do fastpath, but no configuration of the max delays is abit restrictive

As tweaking the snr, ive already got a DG834gt with DG team fw on it somewhere in the loft.
Been a while since i used it.

Can a DG834GT be used in bridge or half-bridge mode so i can use it with my Netgear 3800 router?
My Draytek 120 does PPPoA to PPPoE conversion so it plays nice with the 3800.
Afiak you cant tweak snr with the Draytek though.

Oh does anyone know if C&W support PPPoE ? If so may be able to use my Billion 7402nx as a modem and tweak with coding gain.

As you may have found out now, there is not an awful lot of flexibility on the CW service, we have plenty of customers that have no issues and just want to use it, but if you need profiles changed down to 6db fastpath, then you may be better of with one of the many TT wholesale packages on offer, as there is quite a bit more flexibility, and some (like us) will do free migration.

Which one of your packages is TT based ?

I think we may have cracked it here

TT is apparently a good match for my Draytek 120.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Thanks for the info.

The lack of being able to reduce the interleave depth could be a nail in the coffin for me as im an avid gamer too !!
I already know C&W dont do fastpath, but no configuration of the max delays is abit restrictive

My mate seems to manage and he is avid games player, ok it is mainly MMO's, but he does play other games as well

As tweaking the snr, ive already got a DG834gt with DG team fw on it somewhere in the loft.
Been a while since i used it.

Can a DG834GT be used in bridge or half-bridge mode so i can use it with my Netgear 3800 router?

with the DGteam firmware it is possible to make the DG834 as a modem only as I did it when I got my TP-link router.

My Draytek 120 does PPPoA to PPPoE conversion so it plays nice with the 3800.
Afiak you cant tweak snr with the Draytek though.

Oh does anyone know if C&W support PPPoE ? If so may be able to use my Billion 7402nx as a modem and tweak with coding gain.

i think they do use PPPoE, i can't remember now, I can find out what my old speedtouch was last set at, later on, when I come back from work.

I notice above something was said about Talk Talk network, just to be fair there are other resellers that sell the same service, including ADSl24.

But to be honest if you are going to go for Talk Talk network, then why not go directly to Talk Talk, as it will be cheaper, but then you may have the same problem as you have with Sky.

If you went onto the Talk Talk network via a reseller, would you still have that problem as you are still using their infrastructure?

Right work time

Our Variety package Here

In reply to a post by slickric21:

3) What chipset does C&W usually have in the exchange ?

In 98% of exchanges, it is CTLM (Centillium).

Matt

Sounds like the line isnt that long with 15998/1024 @ 7db sync whilst with UKO

If you had of used the billion back then, and had them change the profile to a 4 or 3 db margin and enabled fast path you would of got quiet a bit more maybe over 20mb but no more than 1216kbps upstream(technical limit)
The IWF filtering that sky use is the same as what ukonline used , it's not the IWF but their broken filtering that results in a whole domain being blocked not just the reported cp links to one of the file hosts servers
But there are many ways to circumvent most blocked sites ,

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 22-Aug-12 15:15:44)

Its a big NO for C&W LLU then, as don't fancy having to rely on using a Broadcom based modem and tweaking snr.

Looked into the TT resellers and their packages, but I can see no reason to choose them over going direct to TT. Infact the resellers package is slightly worse as far as I can see, all have a peak time usage cap in place (granted its 50gb per day peak time) but a cap none the less.

Another problem with the TT resellers is that by the end of next month Fibre will be enabled on my exchange and I want to be with a provider who I can upgrade with. All the Fibre packages i can see from the TT resellers are expensive and heavily restricted.

As regards the Netload block, I believe it is present on TT, but i'm not too concerned about it and its not the reason i'm leaving Sky.
There is only one way to work around this and its using a VPN tunnel. The old tricks of https and hosts file editing dont work against this IWF proxy filtering. Netload think everyone on Sky or BT have the same IP address (the IWF proxy) so we can login but as soon as try to download a file get "access denied".
Virgin, BE and many more I suspect dont have this problem and must use another more sophisticated method of implementing the IWF watch list,(eg just block the offending material and quite rightly too) rather than causing a blanket ban for all users .

The main reason I want to spread my wings is as I mentioned before i've got a new Netgear 3800 router, with Sky i'll be reliant on using dd wrt firmware on it (as soon I get fibre, or they switch me to MER) which is uber buggy for this device at present and wont let me use all its features (wifi clear channel, automatic QoS for video)
So i want an ISP who will let me easily use any router/modem combo i want

We dont have a peak time cap let alone one of 50GB on our product?????
Our data is not provided through TT so any filtering they may have would not have any effect on our services

Oh yeah sorry my bad, ive been looking at so many packages they've all merged into 1 lol !!

I see that your TT package is unlimited (except p2p restrictions at peak times - which dont affect me) and that its availible for 1 month contracts which is nice.
Definately considering it.

What would my options be if i went on it and my exchange goes Fibre in a month or 2 ??

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Oh yeah sorry my bad, ive been looking at so many packages they've all merged into 1 lol !!

I see that your TT package is unlimited (except p2p restrictions at peak times - which dont affect me) and that its availible for 1 month contracts which is nice.
Definately considering it.

What would my options be if i went on it and my exchange goes Fibre in a month or 2 ??

I just moved over to a CPW LLU package with Uno Broadband/XILO.

I get a 9-10Mbps sync with a 49dB attenuation! I've had my SNR drop down as low as -0.3dB (Never before have I had a line hold at negative SNR, mind you it did drop about 10 mins later).

I can ping the BBC website at 19-20ms (Fastpath) and have a 6dB target SNR.

75GB Peak Usage
Unlimited Off-Peak (00:00 - 08:00 Mon - Fri and all day weekends)
1 Month contract

Only downside is the migration fee at £40+VAT.

Is that a daily 75gb limit ?

Looked on the website, buts its not very informative

Having a lot of problems myself with the C&W reseller via ADSL24. Defo do not go with them. Not worth the hassle.

In reply to a post by NUTTER44444:

Having a lot of problems myself with the C&W reseller via ADSL24. Defo do not go with them. Not worth the hassle.

But aren't you on a long line suffering considerable loop loss?

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Is that a daily 75gb limit ?

Looked on the website, buts its not very informative

A daily 75GB limited would be fantastic.

Sadly it's monthly. No port blocking or line throttling though.

XILO are splitting keeping their web hosting services as XILO and moving broadband services to Uno (At least that's how it appears).

The new Uno site should be a lot clearer when it's launched. A lot of XILO's products (O2/Be and CPW/TT Full MPF LLU) aren't listed on their site yet.

https://my.xilo.net/adslcheck.php

That should tell you what's available.

There are four tabs for the results, I know a few people don't realise and complain they don't offer many services.

Pro 16 is C&W based.
Pro 24 is CPW/TT based.
Be is BeThere/O2 based.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Looked on the website, buts its not very informative

Just call 0800 848 8468, after you've checked availability as Toonshortly suggested, and you will get all the information that need from very helpful and knowledgeable staff

Excellent, cheers for the link and heads up.

I'll probably start a new thread to discuss the CPW/TT offerings specifically quite soon, as the title to this thread may be misleading to some.

However its been good as ive established C&W is no good for me, and discovered about the CPW/TT resellers which i didnt know existed !!

Its now a choice of TT direct or through a reseller. I'll open a new thread to discuss the pro's and con's in here tommorrow.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

If you wanted to test the water, we do not charge a migration fee and also have a monthly contract.

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

If you wanted to test the water, we do not charge a migration fee and also have a monthly contract.

How do you guys do a monthly rolling contract without a migration fee?

I know you guys do all the usual port filtering and throttling however I'm surprised you make money on that.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Its now a choice of TT direct or through a reseller. I'll open a new thread to discuss the pro's and con's in here tommorrow.

If you don't mind using forum support (which is pretty good) and are likely to stick with TT >12 months then go with TT direct as they will work out considerably cheaper. The only time i would recommend resellers is if you are a heavy P2P downloader. Of course your choice

Your recommendations for TT are commendable based on your experience of using TT for broadband and phone, but please mention that TT is a contracted full LLU service and people may not wish to use full LLU, since there can be difficulties with any future migration particularly to a 21CN WBC service, and partial LLU may be more suitable for their needs in the short to medium term.

And despite the horror stories out there, its a perfectly straightforward process to move from full LLU back to BTw. You just ask BT for a 'return to donor' and as long as you give your LLU isp 30 days notice preferably in writing (or pay off your contract if you're within the 12 months) then that LLU isp should transfer the line back to BT. I know of people who've done this without any major issues, unfortunately the people who do get issues will make all the headlines. The only downside involved is that you could be without tel line/broadband for a week or two but in this age of 3G smartphones i don't think that would be a issue for many.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Your recommendations for TT are commendable based on your experience of using TT for broadband and phone, but please mention that TT is a contracted full LLU service and people may not wish to use full LLU, since there can be difficulties with any future migration particularly to a 21CN WBC service, and partial LLU may be more suitable for their needs in the short to medium term.

TalkTalk themselves do.

I'm on XILOs Pro 24 TalkTalk package and I only migrated my broadband. Phone is still on BT equipment.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

The only downside involved is that you could be without tel line/broadband for a week or two but in this age of 3G smartphones i don't think that would be a issue for many.

To a huge number it would be a major issue. Very few are tech-savvy, even possibly amongst smart-phone users. Especially coming off a unlimited landline service, even for a few weeks.

Can even be done with no very little downtime when doing a SIM provide...

Matt

In reply to a post by Toonshorty:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Your recommendations for TT are commendable based on your experience of using TT for broadband and phone, but please mention that TT is a contracted full LLU service and people may not wish to use full LLU, since there can be difficulties with any future migration particularly to a 21CN WBC service, and partial LLU may be more suitable for their needs in the short to medium term.

TalkTalk themselves do.

I'm on XILOs Pro 24 TalkTalk package and I only migrated my broadband. Phone is still on BT equipment.

Sorry I don't follow what you said.

BTW. I use the same SMPF uno Pro 24 TT (CPW) package and BT for the phone in the same way that you do

In reply to a post by uno:

Can even be done with no very little downtime when doing a SIM provide...

Matt

Don't think I would fancy going to the TT forums, TT phone support or whatever to get that procedure started though.

Would it still be £48 to migrate to uno SMPF or 21CN from TT MPF when doing a SIM provide?

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 24-Aug-12 19:54:03)

Yup... £48 standard line activation.

Matt

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

If you don't mind using forum support (which is pretty good) and are likely to stick with TT >12 months then go with TT direct as they will work out considerably cheaper. The only time i would recommend resellers is if you are a heavy P2P downloader. Of course your choice

Don't Talk Talk also block sites just like Bt and sky do? this is something the OP wants to get away from. talk Talk also got the dreaded home safe, spy service as well.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Don't Talk Talk also block sites just like Bt and sky do?

Its just a few filesharing sites and very easily bypassed by editing the win hosts file. Certainly not a reason not to go with an isp otherwise Be, O2, Virgin, BT, talkTalk, Sky would hardly have any customers.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

talk Talk also got the dreaded home safe, spy service as well.

Which is optional and is switched off by default

The blocking of the filesharing sites is only a minor thing for me, but it would be a bonus if I could still use my netload account on my new ISP yes.

Also the editing of the hosts file doesn't bypass this particular problem (like it used to do in the past when Sky had issues with Rapdishare and Hotfile)
Its something to do with the single proxy BT and Sky use to route downloads from Netload, and Netload crapping itself when a zillon users with the same IP try and download a file - hence the access denied and constant re-issuing of passwords.

Basically for me now its a choice between TT Plus @ £14.50 pm and Vivaciti Variety SMPF @ £21 pm

The TT Plus comes with some addded extras (lovefilm,free 0870/0845 calls etc), is £6.50 cheaper (plus id save a few quid on line rental aswell as i'd have to take it being full LLU), plus easy upgrade to Fibre when my exchange is enabled in Sept (3rd time lucky its been put back since Jan this yr)
Downsides are 12mth contract, potential filehost access problems still, full LLU.

Vivaciti, well the only advantage is see is the 1mth contract/ Partial LLU so if its no good I can get out easily, plus no restrictions on filehosts would be a small bonus.
I'm leaning towards this one tbh now, nothing to lose by giving it a few months.
Shame the Fibre packages are so poor though (in terms of Download limits and price), because as soon as my exchange is enabled i'd be switching back to either Sky or TT probably.

Can anyone tell me if Viviciti's CPW based product offers the same configurations as the TT one ? Eg being able to switch to 6db fastpath profiles ? And how easy it is to get that changed.
Also do they offer a 6db 8ms delay Interleaved profile ? (i remember fro my UKO days that mt line at the time with a Linksys AM200 was like a yoyo at night on fastpath)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

The only downside involved is that you could be without tel line/broadband for a week or two but in this age of 3G smartphones i don't think that would be a issue for many.

Not all have smartphones and even if they do, who wants to go from a full-blown monitor to a piddly little screen to go on the Net?

That's no excuse for playing down the difficulty of migrating from Full LLU.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Its now a choice of TT direct or through a reseller. I'll open a new thread to discuss the pro's and con's in here tommorrow.

If you don't mind using forum support (which is pretty good) and are likely to stick with TT >12 months then go with TT direct as they will work out considerably cheaper. The only time i would recommend resellers is if you are a heavy P2P downloader. Of course your choice

Can i just ask the one question here where exactly does TT retail or even their wholesale product come into this, the op asked about migrating service from sky to C &W TT where not even mentioned, From your continual imput on this forum i would have to draw the conclusion that you are
A, An employee of TT or one of its affiliate /partner companies
B, shareholder
C,or have other vested interest that somehow gives a financial reward to you
Which is it ?

But to the OP switching to C&W could well mean a lower sync & throughput due to their stubbornness when it comes to having a default target noise margin of 6db theirs is 9db and they will not change this (reduce it) plus unless you are lucky enough to connect to one of few exchanges where they have fast path enabled and are a gamer welcome to lag city , i would not recommend c&w based on those facts alone,
Because i am a believer in the customer /end used being given the choice of line config , if they are not savvy enough then that's though ,they will have to live with whatever the default settings are until they are savvy enough , or is that asking too much in this day &age ?

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Thanks for the info.

The lack of being able to reduce the interleave depth could be a nail in the coffin for me as im an avid gamer too !!
I already know C&W dont do fastpath, but no configuration of the max delays is abit restrictive

As tweaking the snr, ive already got a DG834gt with DG team fw on it somewhere in the loft.
Been a while since i used it.

Can a DG834GT be used in bridge or half-bridge mode so i can use it with my Netgear 3800 router?
My Draytek 120 does PPPoA to PPPoE conversion so it plays nice with the 3800.
Afiak you cant tweak snr with the Draytek though.

Oh does anyone know if C&W support PPPoE ? If so may be able to use my Billion 7402nx as a modem and tweak with coding gain.

We are currently not able to deliver any results on the number entered. This could be because it is a new number, not an active BT Wholesale service or one that is incompatible with broadband.

it don't like my number,lol
1, it certainly not a new number unless some 3yrs is classed as new
2, It's certainly is an active BT Wholesale service, SMPF LLU & PTSN with BT retail
3, The line being compatible with ADSL well it has had ASL services running on it from at least 4 yrs, a reliable checker that is NOT

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by slickric21:

2, It's certainly is an active BT Wholesale service, SMPF LLU & PTSN with BT retail.

?
Apropos of nothing, which bit of that is BT Wholesale?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by slickric21:

2, It's certainly is an active BT Wholesale service, SMPF LLU & PTSN with BT retail.

?
Apropos of nothing, which bit of that is BT Wholesale?

So BT retail isn't selling a BTwholesale product then ? (Line rental) as BT are my telephony provider hence a BT line non LLU so it should be recognised by the xilo checker, My number is successfully recognised in other isp's checkers without issues

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Can i just ask the one question here where exactly does TT retail or even their wholesale product come into this, the op asked about migrating service from sky to C &W TT where not even mentioned,

Perhaps you need to read more closely? The OP has decided NOT to go with C&W, he's likely to go with TT direct or via a reseller. And yes i work for Talktalk, hold 21 billion shares in them and get £150 for every referral. Oh and i also work for Xilo, Goscomb, Netplan and Entanet L2TP resellers as i have recommended them in the past LOL

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Its now a choice of TT direct or through a reseller.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Basically for me now its a choice between TT Plus @ £14.50 pm and Vivaciti Variety SMPF @ £21 pm

In reply to a post by slickric21:

...as soon as my exchange is enabled i'd be switching back to either Sky or TT probably.

Then it makes more sense to go with TalkTalk direct....and forget about paying £14.50 pm for their plus package; at the very least they'll give it to you for half price for the first 6 months if you haggle via their sales team. Not sure if you're aware of this but TalkTalk let you leave free of charge within the first 30 days of going live if you're not satisfied with their service. Use their forums for any issues and if you still want to leave then again request this via their forums...their phone support will literally have you pulling your hair out Yeah sure it would mean signing up to a new 12 month line rental contract with BT (or 1-3 months with post office) but i very much doubt you'd be going back to any full LLU provider if in the unlikely event you got your fingers burnt by TT.

Regarding netload issues, i've just seen your thread on bolt forum....cough cough splutter splutter As someone suggested on there, use Real Debrid and bob's yer uncle

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Aug-12 07:47:24)

Ive fired off an email to Vivaciti sales with a few questions regarding their product, so i'll see what they get back to me with before i take the plunge. The idea of a monthly contract and only partial LLU does appeal to me at the moment.

Yeah a few people have mentioned real debrid, i'll have a look at that, bit that wont change the Gigabtes of my own legitimate data i have stored on Netload i cant even access !!

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

2, It's certainly is an active BT Wholesale service, SMPF LLU & PTSN with BT retail.

?
Apropos of nothing, which bit of that is BT Wholesale?

So BT retail isn't selling a BTwholesale product then ? (Line rental) as BT are my telephony provider hence a BT line non LLU so it should be recognised by the xilo checker, My number is successfully recognised in other isp's checkers without issues

Correct. BT retail is not selling a BT Wholesale product. Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR3) is an Openreach product, not BT Wholesale.

I agree that it would be expected to show up on the BT Wholesale checker. I don't remember the failure to do so ever being reported before on these forums, so that is very strange. However, you seem to be referring to the xilo checker, so maybe that's where your problem lies.

Are you talking about your own line? The quote you give. "We are currently not able to deliver any results on the number entered. This could be because it is a new number, not an active BT Wholesale service or one that is incompatible with broadband" only appears one other time in the last six months, and wasn't in a post by you, unless you had logged out and forgot to log in. The thread it is in is a rather confusing one anyway, but other than it containing assertations by yourself about the BT Wholesale checker, doesn't seem to provide any evidence.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 27-Aug-12 09:42:54)

TBH if i were in your shoes i would just stick to Sky LLU considering you're not too bothered about a fastpath profile on TT LLU. Regarding using your own router on Sky, the highly rated Billion 7800N can be used with 1483 MER as well as Sky FTTC:
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=343
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=382

And using Real Debrid solves your netload problem. So not really much to complain about being on Sky LLU, IMHO not worth the hassle of changing isp's.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

?
Apropos of nothing, which bit of that is BT Wholesale?

So BT retail isn't selling a BTwholesale product then ? (Line rental) as BT are my telephony provider hence a BT line non LLU so it should be recognised by the xilo checker, My number is successfully recognised in other isp's checkers without issues

Correct. BT retail is not selling a BT Wholesale product. Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR3) is an Openreach product, not BT Wholesale.

I agree that it would be expected to show up on the BT Wholesale checker. I don't remember the failure to do so ever being reported before on these forums, so that is very strange. However, you seem to be referring to the xilo checker, so maybe that's where your problem lies.

Are you talking about your own line? The quote you give. "We are currently not able to deliver any results on the number entered. This could be because it is a new number, not an active BT Wholesale service or one that is incompatible with broadband" only appears one other time in the last six months, and wasn't in a post by you, unless you had logged out and forgot to log in. The thread it is in is a rather confusing one anyway, but other than it containing assertations by yourself about the BT Wholesale checker, doesn't seem to provide any evidence.

I made reference to the xilo checker not the bt wholesale checker,(that has outdated /incorrect info) the point that i was making is that xilo checker doesn't recognise a line that it should , if it does that with my number, how many others get the same thing?

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Ive fired off an email to Vivaciti sales with a few questions regarding their product, so i'll see what they get back to me with before i take the plunge. The idea of a monthly contract and only partial LLU does appeal to me at the moment.

Yeah a few people have mentioned real debrid, i'll have a look at that, bit that wont change the Gigabtes of my own legitimate data i have stored on Netload i cant even access !!

I would certainly recommend uno pro 24 75GB (monthly contract - un-metered off peak) partial LLU (SMPF) also - that's if you feel comfortable with paying £48 for activation and £26.39 (inc. vat) per month until FTTC becomes available on your line.

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 27-Aug-12 15:39:41)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

TBH if i were in your shoes i would just stick to Sky LLU considering you're not too bothered about a fastpath profile on TT LLU. Regarding using your own router on Sky, the highly rated Billion 7800N can be used with 1483 MER as well as Sky FTTC:
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=343
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=382

yeah but the main reason all this kicked off was that we needed a new router with 5ghz wireless with all the devices and interference in our house. Our Biliion 7402nx whilst being great as a modem, is just so dated.
Just as the 7800n is, so its a no go.

With Sky fibre in mind i got a Netgear 3800 (which has solved all our wireless problems) which when used with dd wrt firmware and adding some startup commands can be used on fibre also.
However dd wrt at the moment is a bugfest on this router, so i reverted back to official netgear.
Hence wanting an ISP who allow use of own router so i wont be reliant on buggy dd wrt firmware if i go fibre.

Also what you said about the 30 day thing on TT is interesting, but I fear i'd need to go full LLU if I went TT, which could get messy If I do want to leave.

I'm still waiting on Vivaciti to get back to my me on my queries and if i'm happy i'll give it a go for a month or 2.

In reply to a post by slickric21:

yeah but the main reason all this kicked off was that we needed a new router with 5ghz wireless with all the devices and interference in our house. Our Biliion 7402nx whilst being great as a modem, is just so dated.
Just as the 7800n is, so its a no go.

But it may be possible to use the Billion 7800N as a modem only (ie bridge mode) on a Sky MER line...if so you could use any router connected to the Billion. I would ask on skyuser forums and/or Billion support forum if anyone has such a setup. Just consider all possibilities before taking the drastic step of changing isp's.

Or he could just add a good WAP.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 28-Aug-12 09:24:31)

I don't really want to buy anymore hardware now tbh lol !!!!
The Netgear 3800 is great and i'm going to be keeping it.

Just heard back from Vivaciti and their 300GB fup puts me off tbh. I'd hate to go back to the days of having to keep an eye on how much data we've used.

With a Lovefilm Hd , iPlayer HD on our Samsung TV's, Sky anytime plus on a daily basis and the kids constantly on iplayer/catchup's etc etc 300Gb would last 2 weeks max I reckon.

So C&W and CPW resellers are now offically off the list !!

Go with Sky. You can hook the 3800 upto the sky router if needed.

The sky router will probably perform just as well though.

Im already with Sky mate, have been for few yrs. The current Sagem router ive got from them along with the original dg843gt is [censored].
Currently using a Draytek 120 modem and the Netgear 3800. This is a beast of a router.

I'd been using a Billion 7402nx which sync'd at 16-17.5mb down and 1.1up, but the wireless capability was not sufficient anymore, so got the 3800 recently.
Couldnt use the Billion 7402nx in bridge mode as the Netgear only does PPPoE.
Mer not active on my line, its only PPPoA.
So i then had to get the Draytek to do PPPoE to PPPoA bridging.
Sadly this modem has cost me 2mb down and 150k up on sync speeds.

Thats why i thought of switching to TT based service as the matching Infineon chipset may perform better, plus with the anticipation of Fibre in the next month or so i wouldn't be reliant on dd wrt firmware to get my Netgear 3800 to work.

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Aug-12 13:08:39)

Post deleted by baby_frogmella

In reply to a post by slickric21:

Couldnt use the Billion 7402nx in bridge mode as the Netgear only does PPPoE.

That's correct, the Netgear will not do PPPoA as its a router, NOT a modem/router. But the Billion 7402nx does have a 'bridge mode', you should choose this and enter your ISP login details in the Netgear (should be set as PPPoE) and you're rock n rolling
Page 17:
au.billion.com/downloads/BiPAC7402NX_User_Manual.pdf

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Aug-12 13:31:29)

Sorry i wasn't clear enough.

My line from Sky is only PPPoA, the only bridge modes the 7402nx supports are PPPoE based (MER isn't active on my line so cant login using PPPoE)

Thats why the Draytek 120 works as it converts the PPPoA into PPPoE.

I've also got a Linksy AM200 that works in 'half-bridge' mode, it handles the PPPoA login itself then passes my external IP to the Netgear. Its not as stable as the Draytek though, and oddly enough my pings are about 5ms higher if I use it.

But since your Billion 7402 works on it own when connected via PPPoA then that means it has an internal modem - which is all what the Draytek 120 is, just a dumb modem.

What happens when you try using your Billion as a modem only (bridge mode) to the netgear? Are you able to enter the Sky login details in the Netgear? Like in your case, my talktalk line is also PPPoA based yet i can bridge my Billion 7800N to the Linksys EA4500 router. Nearly every combined modem/router can act as a modem only (ie bridge) to a router and since the 7800N and 7402 are identical in features you should be able to do the same on a Sky PPPoA line.

Are you able to select "pure bridge" under WAN port>protocol on the Billion 7402nx? If so, the Billion would act as a modem on an PPPoA connection and would simply pass on the ip address to the Netgear. I'm 99.99% sure you can bridge the Billion to the Netgear, however give Billion support a call on 0203 372 0120 if you're not having any luck - they're usually very helpful.

You can bridge the billion 7402nx, but the problem is it wont do a PPPoA to PPPoE bridge which is what id need.
It just syncs the line then passes whatever protocal over to the 3rd party router.

As Sky use PPPoA then thats what gets passed over, so the Netgear cant authenticate as it only recognises PPPoE.

Thats why the Draytek works it does PPPoA to PPPoE converstion ( & why a 'half bridge' mode on the Linksy's AM200 works as it logs on for you over PPPoA first then just passes your external IP your 3rd party router)

In that case if you're set on moving and not too keen on going with a talktalk reseller (due to their FUP), then going direct with TalkTalk is your best bet. Their Plus package is truly unlimited and does not have any FUP. The Draytek 120 on my TT line syncs at nearly 18.5 meg on an attenuation of 29db @ 6db SNR so you should get something similar if you were to join. Just take the plunge mate

1) Can C&W set a 6 or 7db snr on the line ? As I understand it the default is 9db, which will be no good for me as i'm used to 7db and the associated speed.

Yes, any profile can be requested/made.


2) Can the interleave depth be reduced to 8ms ?
Yes


3) What chipset does C&W usually have in the exchange ?
Will find out and get back to you but I think it's Broadcom


4) Does the line run the same speed 24/7 like i'm used to on Sky, eg no congestion at peak times ?
No shaping is applied by c&w

5) Can I use my own modem/router combo freely ?
Yes


6) Is there any filtering/blocking of the filehosting sites ?
Not by C&w

C & W, or CPW who your profile says you work for? (TalkTalk from your nick?)

In particular, your Q1 answer. IIRC at least two active C & W resellers say it is nigh on impossible to get the noise margin lowered from 9dB. But my memory could be up the spout at this time of night.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 28-Sep-12 00:46:53)

1) No, there are set and limited profiles on C&W kit. Unlike CPW/TTB where they do have a whole host of profiles.

2) That is the default interleaving depth on C&W and the lowest they have in regard to profiles on interleaving. Again, CPW/TTB have a whole range of profiles.

3) CTLM - Centillium unlike CPW/TTB who generally have Infenion/Broadcom.

Matt

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In particular, your Q1 answer. IIRC at least two active C & W resellers say it is nigh on impossible to get the noise margin lowered from 9dB. But my memory could be up the spout at this time of night.

Your memory is good on this. My experience has been that C&W simply do not do this. It can be requested but the requests appear to go nowhere.

I used to work for TalkTalk but now work for C&W with direct access to the MSANs. If your struggling through your reseller let me know and I'll change it for you. It's certainly not something we refuse, the only hurdle may be getting your reseller to raise a fault with this request.

1. We have up to 250 profiles on some exchanges to choose from. If there isn't one that matches what we want, we simply create a custom one.

2. This is not correct. Fast path profiles are available.interleaving is available from 0ms to 36ms, however we set the Max interleaving depth on most profiles, so your router and the MSAN will negotiate and only use an amount that it needs too. This of course can have a lower maximum amount if you insist on having a lower interleaving depth.

3. I think this is Broadcom on C&W, however we have 3 types of MSAN.
Ericsson AXH600
- older model that is being decommissioned and only supports ADSL1. This uses an ATM backhaul and no new customers will be placed onto this kit.

Ericsson 2510
- the majority of our exchanges use this. These are capable of ADSL2+, ADSL1 and ADSL2. These use a GIGE backhaul.

Ericsson 2530
- Our latest MSANs that are capable of AnnexM and RE-ADSL if needed, however not enabled by default due to cross talk. This can be enabled on a port by port basis. This kit will also support our EFM product and has a GIGE backhaul.

Then I am afraid you have not been working for them very long as getting a profile changed is like pulling hens teeth! and to get it done to 6dB then forget it!

4 Years. There's a team of ~10 of us in the UK that manage the LLU user base & MSANs, so i'm unsure who it is you've requested do this as it's a fairly standard request.

Any problems just let me know. It's an easy enough request to do, it only takes a few minutes. If your having any problems just PM me your CW fault ref.

Edited by deleted (Fri 28-Sep-12 12:52:48)