Xilo Service (or lack thereof)

Only recently swapped from Plusnet to Xilo, but now looking to move elsewhere. Since moving across, my speed has gone from 14Mbs to 3Mbs and I am getting nowhere with the support 'team'

Any suggestions where to go now?

What was wrong with PlusNet?

I ask in case you moved because of a problem on the line and hoped it would cure it. Whatever is wrong now, you certainly need to see if we can help you, as it might go with you to anywhere else.

Your line stats from your router would be useful as a starter, (connection speeds, noise margins, attenuations at least, preferably error counts as well). Plus any more information you can give us about the issue.

No line problems before with Plusnet (apart from incorrect IP profile issues that were resolved after quite a bit of faffing)

The reason I swopped to Xilo is that they were rated as having great, stable xDSL, and could provide a service with no-interleaving and improved upstream speeds. Haven't seen that though!

When troubleshooting I would see reconnection speeds at 13Mbs (which is about right for my line), however, after about 5 mins these would step down to 3-4Mbs

Line stats below (running Dratyek 2830):

ADSL Information ( ADSL Firmware Version: 2471201_A)
ATM Statistics TX Cells RX Cells TX CRC errs RX CRC errs
7758727 35461560 0 3
ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
ADSL2+(G.992.5) SHOWTIME 687714 4147513 13 21

Is that the router you were using on PlusNet?

I assume you've been through all the usual stuff with xilo. What do they reckon to the 13dB noise margin? (I assume that's downstream). Upstream speed is bad as well, as you know.

Yes, done all the usual checks. Yes, Draytek was used for Plusnet. Yes upstream [censored] as well!

The irony is that when I first swapped over to Xilo, all seemed fine.

Done a factory reset on the Draytek? Tried a different router?

Another odd thing is that on 21dB attenuation I'd expect well over 17Mbps sync (on a 6dB margin). Wondering if there might be an underlying problem somewhere that has just got a lot worse, giving constant noise.

Have you got any new or replacement electrical/electronic device? Maybe a neighbour has? Moved anything around?

No, Haven't tried a replacement modem yet, but will. There is a lot of noise on the phone line (hiss), but that has always been there, even when speed was good. Filters are also on all used sockets (and replaced them all recently too). Thanks for your help BTW, much appreciated.

Maybe the hiss has always been in the audible range and a bit in the ADSLx range, and is now more intense or spreading over more frequencies in the ADSL range. More intense would be the more likely, as it is hitting both down and up.

Can you get bin/frequency loading figures out of the Draytek?

In reply to a post by timthewebb:

The reason I swopped to Xilo is that they were rated as having great, stable xDSL

Rated by who?

The issue for your line appears to be line related which you have been in touch with us by.

There have been no issues detected remotely on the line so we've been doing some extra monitoring before jumping straight in to a SFI visit, which could potentially lead to charges.

Your sync rate varies as per the update from yourself noting it starts at 13Mb and then drops to 3Mb, which is certainly indicative of a potential fault but we are still investigating it as per the update from one of my guys earlier today.

It can take a little bit of time to do further investigations but happy to jump straight to a SFI if you would prefer this.

Do update us via the fault raised and we'll proceed as you like.

Edit: Have just also sent a further update to your ticket following on from the one just after 5pm today.

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 28-Jun-13 17:51:30)

The problem with SFI, is that it is loaded against the user. The ISP cover themselves with an up to £180 potential cost on which you have to rely on honesty.
I have moved ISP on two occasions and had problem resolved without issue. In both cases reported noisy line by ISP. In first case line had been banded.
I would do a line check first , from BT website, if BTW, With broadband removed and at master socket.

In reply to a post by timthewebb:

When troubleshooting I would see reconnection speeds at 13Mbs (which is about right for my line), however, after about 5 mins these would step down to 3-4Mbs

Line stats below (running Dratyek 2830):

ADSL Information ( ADSL Firmware Version: 2471201_A)
ATM Statistics TX Cells RX Cells TX CRC errs RX CRC errs
7758727 35461560 0 3
ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
ADSL2+(G.992.5) SHOWTIME 687714 4147513 13 21

TX CRC errors 0
RX CRC errors 3
Up Speed 687.7Kbps
Down Speed 4147.5Kbps
Up Attenuation 13dB
Down Attenuation 21dB
Up SNRM 14dB
Down SNRM 13dB

If my translation of your router stats are correct, I don't see how you reconnect at 13Mbps then it steps down to 3 or 4Mbps after 5 minutes. Does the router resync several times during that 5 minutes leaving you with the stats quoted above? Or are the stats always like this now after a reconnection/resync following your troubleshooting some time ago?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Up Attenuation 13dB
Down Attenuation 21dB
Up SNRM 14dB
Down SNRM 13dB

Don't see how you can derive 4 figures out of 2?

I can only read 13dB Down NM & 21dB Down Attn.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Up Attenuation 13dB
Down Attenuation 21dB
Up SNRM 14dB
Down SNRM 13dB

Don't see how you can derive 4 figures out of 2?

I can only read 13dB Down NM & 21dB Down Attn.

Yes I was just trying to find the missing SNRM figures so I just took the last 2 numbers from, which appear to be, both of the sync speeds - this seemed a possibility. Perhaps the OP can confirm that supposition or correct it?

Peculiar!

Most likely they are missing as some routers only report the Down figures.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Peculiar!

Most likely they are missing as some routers only report the Down figures.

Indeed the up SNRM and up attenuation figures probably are missing in which case sync speeds possibly are 687714bps up and 4147513bps down

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 28-Jun-13 21:12:34)

That's how I took it (bps) earlier in the thread, going by the column headings. Note that if you click the Quote button you see the post displayed as intended, before html rendering screws it up).

Then when I saw your figures, I wondered, and came to the same conclusion as you re the speed/margin figures.

On further reflection I think I was right first time. I checked the reported throughputs against the bps figures before my original post and they looked about right.

I expect the missing data is available, just wasn't posted.

Whatever, even on bps + down att + down SNRM, the speeds don't compute.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 28-Jun-13 21:05:53)

Yes, I'm sure XRaySpeX is correct when he mentioned that some routers don't give upstream attenuations and upstream noise margins (which is something that I wasn't aware of )

Never-the-less I still don't understand how, what is presumably throughput speed, steps down after reconnection to between 3 and 4Mbps from 13Mbps given a reported sync speed of 4147513bps by the router?

I suspect the router or the MSAN line card is going duff.

Line card fix should be free - a router problem if a SFI finds the line to be in good order could prove to be expensive!

The reported fault however, was the sync was dropping without a drop in session... hence the required investigation.

SRA isn't offered on the TTB product set so that isn't it.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

The reported fault however, was the sync was dropping without a drop in session... hence the required investigation.

Info he didn't post here . Nor did he say it was TTB based.

Is there a possibility that re-syncs are occurring without session drops Matt? I and many others suffered from this when with Newnet - they were often unaware of re-syncs on their line monitoring even though we saw them happen.

The reason seems to lie in the area covered in SIN 498 (for FTTC so not directly relevant), where a re-sync can complete before the loss of connection is detected by the ISP by a PPP session drop.

Also, as I said to the OP in one of my replies, the sync speed to be obtained if the noise margin were normal is nowhere near what a 21dB attenuation line should reach.

Very odd. I'm glad it isn't my responsibility to sort out - you have my sympathy.

PMFJI.

A handy tool for getting a feel of a connection is a speed download/upload meter. I use NetMeter. I have it loaded and in use on all my PCs.

I know what the max of my line is and can see at a glance if things are acting up. I have also found some servers that will max out my line easily.

Without this, how can anybody tell what their max is or how the line is performing? Maybe a 10-15% drop in max speed would not be noticed in use?

DrT

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

Without this, how can anybody tell what their max is or how the line is performing? Maybe a 10-15% drop in max speed would not be noticed in use?

DrT

On the flip side if it's not noticed in use why care as it's clearly fit for purpose?

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

Without this, how can anybody tell what their max is or how the line is performing? Maybe a 10-15% drop in max speed would not be noticed in use?

DrT

On the flip side if it's not noticed in use why care as it's clearly fit for purpose?

It's a good way to visualise one's connection and to get to know what is normal and 100% and when to know things are FUBAR. Always used one, from my Compuserve (56K modem) days.

Try it and you won't be without it.

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

It's a good way to visualise one's connection and to get to know what is normal and 100% and when to know things are FUBAR. Always used one, from my Compuserve (56K modem) days.

Try it and you won't be without it.

I have one, sits in the system tray for when things go wrong enough that I notice a problem that needs attention

I use NetWorx.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

I have one, sits in the system tray for when things go wrong enough that I notice a problem that needs attention

They help out even when there is NO problem. For example, if I have 5 downloads and can see that my connection is not maxed, I can initiate more about without impinging on the rest. If my connection maxes out, I can pause some.

Each to their own.

Regards

DrT