Beware Uno Migration

I have an email confirming MIGRATION away from Uno and another billing me for a £40 cease fee, Plus v.a.t AND a charge for a months fixed IP that was free, from what was a monthly contract. Migrating because they cannot supply the FTTC promised as "soon" in January, something I now need for 4K - Beware!

Edited by professor973 (Thu 01-Sep-16 16:40:54)

I believe we have clarified this via our email conversation yesterday but I wanted to post here regardless.

As you're on a MPF service, this isn't considered a migration but a cease as the line on the current technology has to end fully, the number is ported and the new service started with the new supplier.

The cease fee does not include VAT and you have not been charged for the IP address. The pro-rata charge is for the 4 days of service to the end of the notice period. Like with your other invoices it shows the number of IPs you selected with no cost next to it.

Matt

When people sign up and you put them on MPF (which isn't a choice the user can make) do you inform them that it means that even if they migrate to another provider they will still have to pay a "cease" charge? It seems unfair that a choice by the ISP to use a different technology results in a bill later down the line that the end user may not have been aware would be the case.

When you click order it explains there are costs, links to our terms, price list and states notice, early termination and cease fees can apply. The price lists also shows the one-off charges for each product.

Talk Surf is always a MPF service and the OP was aware of this from their contact before signing up. They moved from another MPF service. As we explained to them yesterday, if they had moved back to another MPF service, there wouldn't have been the charge but as the service is ceasing, it applies.

Our products are specific to the service shown. We don't change the underlying service technology, ever.

Matt

OK, thanks for the clarification.

I beg to differ Matt!
description Total
Talk Surf 100GB - 01787xxxxxx
IP Addresses: 1 Static IP
Care Level: Standard
Router: No Router - I'll supply my own
Directory Listing: Ex-Directory
Caller Display: Yes
Call Waiting: No
Call Divert: No
Call Barring: No
Ring Back When Free: No
Anonymous Call Rejection: No
Choose to Refuse: No
1571 Voicemail: No
Withhold Number All Calls: No (26/09/2016 - 30/09/2016)
(26/09/2016 - 30/09/2016)
£2.58
Cease Fee - Within 12 months £40.00
Sub Total £42.58
20.00% VAT £8.52
Credit £0.00
Total £51.10

You may have missed the revised invoice? This was adjusted as soon as the invoice is generated because of the way the billable item is added.

As you'll note though, there is no charge for the IP showing.

The VAT shows as £0.52 and has since yesterday and payment has not yet been collected. It was corrected less than a minute after.

01/09/2016 14:13 Modified Invoice - Invoice ID: x
01/09/2016 14:12 Email Sent to x x (uno : Customer Invoice - x)

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 02-Sep-16 12:55:39)

What I find a catch 22 situation, is I was in a no contract tie-in situation, but am told that moving back to BTW WITHIN 12 months, I am magically in a 12 month contract and have to pay a cease fee. After 12 months, it seems the fee free migration that I understood stands.
Also, I was billed yesterday for over £50, when my usual billing date is the 26th and nothing moves until the 14th. of Sep
Add to this, that I was told in January when I applied to join Uno, that they could NOT convert me to BTW. Every enquiry I have made since regarding FTTC, the answer has been, " We have no date, wait for TT". Others have seen that answer here.
So now that I need FTTC again for 4K and knowing I needed to convert to BTW, I looked elsewhere. If ONLY I had been aware, that Uno now could, and in fact have quietly been converting some from TTB LLU to BTW, things would have been so different, as very happy until now, but I now feel somewhat short changed. I have stated to Uno, that if I had a customer in the same situation, I would have taken the £40 hit, PLUS the v.a.t. and NOT charged me for one months fixed IP address. Seems Uno cannot afford that. Personally, I would have thought the good publicity would have been worth it..

In reply to a post by professor973:

I have an email confirming MIGRATION away from Uno and another billing me for a £40 cease fee, Plus v.a.t AND a charge for a months fixed IP that was free, from what was a monthly contract. Migrating because they cannot supply the FTTC promised as "soon" in January, something I now need for 4K - Beware!

I thought you were with Pulse8? I am just joining them on your recommendation via posts so I hope that's the case!

But it is not made clear that under 12 months is considered early termination if you want to revert to BTW, but not if after twelve months. The user relates early termination to the 1 month contract and only thinks it applies to a 12 month contract, which they have not entered into as far as they are concerned.

I left Pulse8 7 months ago, for no other reason than to save £5, along with having control over my line profile (which in the end was never available) along with TTB LLU being available "soon". Perfectly happy with the Pulse8 service from Adam & Sam, as I have been with Matt & Uno till now, though I have often regretted leaving a BTW line for the sake of a fiver. So now off to Aquiss via a free conversion to BTW and then the same for FTTC upgrade - A round the houses route to feed a new 4K tv Lol

You are not in a 12 month contract and we've never said otherwise. As soon as you enter the number and click order, you get a popup box advising the contract length, that you're bound by terms, a price list and cease fees may apply. If you proceed, you'll progress with the order. The terms agreed on the last page also refer to the same price list which clearly lists all one-off charges. If it had been a 12 month contract, you'd have had to pay for the remaining months - which you have not. You've paid a pro-rata amount up to the 30 days notice, for your service which was monthly.

The bill is generated at the time the notice is given for our standard invoice time of 14 days. As you'll know, we always give 14 days notice of an invoice.

I also explained yesterday that whilst in January we could not convert the line but as was discovered, you contacted us in April this year to ask about and we did advise that you'd need to get the line converted and for you to raise a sales request so we could go through the options with you. You never raised that request so it isn't quite true that "Every enquiry I have made since" has resulted in us saying we cannot. Further to that, I explained that back then (Jan) we could not but things change, we have been working on our internal development and can now do such orders. Making a statement to say that we said we couldn't do it over 8 months ago does not mean to say that we cannot now.

As clarified, there is no VAT on the cease charge and that was removed yesterday. You'll see that invoice in your account.

Matt

In reply to a post by professor973:

I left Pulse8 7 months ago, for no other reason than to save £5, along with having control over my line profile (which in the end was never available) along with TTB LLU being available "soon". Perfectly happy with the Pulse8 service from Adam & Sam, as I have been with Matt & Uno till now, though I have often regretted leaving a BTW line for the sake of a fiver. So now off to Aquiss via a free conversion to BTW and then the same for FTTC upgrade - A round the houses route to feed a new 4K tv Lol

Ah right - I didn't keep up with that one!. Sounds like UNO are being very fair to me. As for the TV bitI know what you mean I recently bought a 4K TV and i'm in awe with it.

My Infinity seems to run it without problem. The IPTV services you can get off ebay are also brill - and a £50 a month Sky saver!

OK Matt, but a charge for migrating in under 12 months to a BTW supplier is as good as a contract - I suspect that legally it is. As I said, an unexpected smack to the wallet when migration is free to another TTB supplier at any time. Vague reference to charges for leaving within contract, when someone is signing up to a monthly contract service does not leave folks aware that a migration will be considered a cease in certain circumstances within 12 months. Anyway, water under the bridge now and at least I can afford 40 quit lol

Edited by professor973 (Fri 02-Sep-16 13:59:48)

Yes, I was told I need to convert to a BTW line - A request I could raise with any supplier and something anyone would be aware of. I was never aware Uno could do this, probably because Uno were reluctant to state it on this site. never offered to those pushing for a date for TTB LLU FTTC here who were likely to go elsewhere - Some have gone to Pulse8 rather that wait any longer. So it seem it's my fault for not guessing or grasping the situation - As they say ... No cure for stupid and enough said on this thread from me I think!

I don't feel there was any guessing involved as we did say "BT FTTC can be done but it involves a migration of the line too. I would recommend raising a sales request so we can go in to the specifics" in April. This reason recommended raising a sales request as you asked the question in a support request about something unrelated.

All the best with Aquiss; Martin and co will do a fine job.

Matt

I have been caught out in exactly the same situation. I tried to get fibre broadband from Uno but apart from automated replies from sales there was no further contact..I emailed reminders and also through live chat but still no response.
As a Xilo customer for a number of years, I asked Matt to help but he said it was two different companies so could not assist. Seems strange as he posts for uno on this forum. I therefore went ahead and ordered fibre from Plusnet (if it's not good at least it's cheap -£23 a month for 18 months including line rent with no setup fee)
Anyway, I was billed £32+Vat as a cease fee plus one month's broadband and phone fee in lieu of the 30 days notice totalling over £60. The cease fee is £40 during the first year and £32 thereafter plus VAT. (Higher than most other providers)
I was very happy with Xilo over the years, but they are not taking any new orders, and I was getting nowhere with Uno. I feel their termination charges are over the top especially as I wanted to stay with them, but they could or would not provide the fibre service I require.

In reply to a post by uno:

All the best with Aquiss; Martin and co will do a fine job.

Appreciated Matt. Thanks for releasing over to us impeccably.

I was told clearly by Matt some time ago that even a xilo/uno "internal migration" from TTB SMPF ADSL2+ to BTw broadband only ADSL2+ would involve fees - it was merely an enquiry and I did not go ahead with the product change because the one or two problems I was having with daytime TTB throughput speeds were resolved.

Sorry to hear that you had issues with your TTB MPF migration

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by uno:

All the best with Aquiss; Martin and co will do a fine job.

Appreciated Matt. Thanks for releasing over to us impeccably.

Just make sure you offer discounts and don't cover your costs when it comes to moving away again - otherwise you'll be getting a thread like this I am sure

All I ask is honesty. I was billed v.a.t and for fixed IP address initially and was not mailed a revised invoice. The amount has been revised which I am grateful for, though I only found out by checking the amount that was NOT taken yesterday according to Matt on by bank statement!
https://postimg.org/image/4zx9a9thz/

In reply to a post by professor973:

So now that I need FTTC again for 4K

This makes sense

In reply to a post by professor973:

and knowing I needed to convert to BTW,

This bit leaves me puzzled though.

What will be your source of 4k content? Presumably you need a BTW line because the content is via the BT TV Connect multicast platform, though I note that you're moving to Aquiss and they don't provide TV services?

Obviously (hopefully!) my presumption is incorrect!

I am moving to get FTTC I and others have been waiting too long for from Uno. I would never sign to any tv service.

I understand the need for FTTC and hence switching provider - The requirement for it to be via BTW puzzles me though!

Why is your source of 4k incompatible with a TTB line?

Does not have to be BTW, any FTTC will do the same job, but am unbundled ADSL2+ and been waiting all this year for Uno resold TTB LLU FTTC to appear. Just got to the stage where I would wait no longer.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 03-Sep-16 00:37:55)

In reply to a post by professor973:

Does not have to be BTW, any FTTC will do the same job, but am unbundled ADSL2+ and been waiting all this year for Uno resold TTB LLU FTTC to appear. Just got to the stage where I would wait no longer.

I use the Smart IPTV app that came with my TV and some guy does every channel you could want for £50 a year on ebay. I agree with Prof, the requirement is FTTC, the backhaul is irrelevant.

I have BTW and TTB services, both work just grand for the IPTV (apart from when BTW slows down of course)

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

the requirement is FTTC, the backhaul is irrelevant.

I know, that's why I was querying the repeated comment that he needed to convert to BTW...

Edited by ferretuk (Sat 03-Sep-16 11:24:47)

Post deleted by RobertoS

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by professor973:

the requirement is FTTC, the backhaul is irrelevant.

I know, that's why I was querying the repeated comment that he needed to convert to BTW...

Because he was on another network and needed to convert back to go to Aquiss? And if the above comment is right then it backs that one up

Edit: Well it did until it was deleted

Edited by deleted (Sat 03-Sep-16 11:06:40)

Heh!

Because as you saw, I wasn't sure, but more because earlier in the thread the OP referred to uno moving some lines back to BTW and his not knowing about that. Implying to me that it was relevant.

I deleted it in case I was confused.

Yes Bob, Uno have been converting a few from TTB LLU to BTW for those that badly wanted FTTC. I was not aware they were able to do that and something they never mentioned here, especially those that were pushing for a TTB LLU FTTC date. Obviously I was aware I needed to convert to BTW, or switch to a provider now offering TTB LLU FTTC, but was not aware Uno could and had in fact been converting a few - Something not possible when I enquired upon joining, so assumed it was not available now and that I needed to migrate in order to get back to FTTC. If I had grasped or known the situation, or it had been made clear to enquiries here, I would have stayed with Uno as was very happy with the service. That said, I will leave the migration in place, as have often regretted leaving a BTW line for the sake of a few pounds.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 03-Sep-16 17:49:28)

Check with Matt but I would imagine that there might be a product change from TTB ADSL to BTw ADSL initially followed by the upgrade to BTw VDSL if one wished to stay with uno...

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 03-Sep-16 14:04:56)

Yes, since my migration application, Matt as confirmed they have been converting a few - Something I was not aware of as they kept it quiet here when folks were asking for a TTB LLU FTTC date - Just as I was not aware then some migrations are deemed a cease, though that is not made very clear upon signup, but we live and learn. I suppose I should have entitled the thread ' Beware LLU migration', but at the time I felt things were outside what I signed up to.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 03-Sep-16 14:19:21)

Yes I checked uno FTTC availability on my line a few weeks ago and the only option was BTw so I didn't enquire with Matt about the details of the produce change process because I wanted to stay with TTB partial LLU and keep the line rental with Zen.

Anyway I hope things go well with your new ISP

Thanks - I wasn't aware Uno did SMPF, though I was fully unbundled before joining. I downgraded from TTB FTTC to suit Uno with the intention of upgrading to their TTB LLU FTTC, but was still waiting eight months on. That said, I did regret leaving a BTW line as I have said before for a saving of a pound or two, but at least my number will be recognized again !

In reply to a post by professor973:

...That said, I did regret leaving a BTW line as I have said before for a saving of a pound or two, but at least my number will be recognized again !

Funny you should say that because a friend of mine who is with TalkTalk MPF can not get the "withheld" number feature removed from his line - he has tried innumerable times to get it removed by TT support without any success. It's a bit of a nuisance because when he calls me his number doesn't come up on caller display

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 03-Sep-16 17:05:55)

Does prefixing the call with 1470 work?

Thanks BatBoy - I didn't know about that, I'll mention it to him

I never ever wanted to be involved with anything TT like many others, but when I was with Pulse8, if your exchange was un-bundled, that was what you were switched to.

In reply to a post by professor973:

I never ever wanted to be involved with anything TT like many others, but when I was with Pulse8, if your exchange was un-bundled, that was what you were switched to.

And yet I have BTW playing up badly and TTB running perfect.

It's just the way it goes I guess

In reply to a post by professor973:

I never ever wanted to be involved with anything TT like many others, but when I was with Pulse8, if your exchange was un-bundled, that was what you were switched to.

How very strange ..........

In reply to a post by professor973:

I left Pulse8 7 months ago, for no other reason than to save £5, along with having control over my line profile (which in the end was never available) along with TTB LLU being available "soon".

you have been bemoaning the fact that the TTB LLU has not been forthcoming and that is the reason you wanted to leave UNO.

You miss the point he is talking through the the thread about TTB FTTC, which uno does not have. He is currently on uno TTB LLU ADSL2+.

(All that white space you have makes reading in Flat Mode very tedious by the way . A closing quote on these forums has an automatic blank line following it, so if you type without even a space after the closing ] you get a blank line between your quote and your typing. Oh, and the same before the opening [ of a quote. It can immediately follow your full stop.

Please.)

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 04-Sep-16 10:15:32)

NO - I stated I need FTTC again for 4K and to my knowledge Uno still could not supply me it, along with the fact that I had been very happy with Uno - Though not happy to be wrongly billed and then be told I am the one wrong. Get your facts right! - What's very strange about not wanting to be involved with TT? Many others feel the same. I had no choice about being switched to TTB LLU with Pulse8. That's what you get if your exchange is unbundled. Those that remember the problems I had with my line Via Pulse8 will know why I left. The TTB LLU ADSL2+ supplied bu Uno has been faultless as they route differently to Pulse8, which proves my problems never were between me and my exchange.

Edited by professor973 (Sun 04-Sep-16 13:02:49)

Well, Seems they are not adverse to answering sales e-mails, so stuff em

Well my line goes back to BTW via Aquiss tomorrow, with Broadband five days later all being well.
Many will remember the problem line I had with other suppliers, but Uno route TBB LLU differently to the Pulse8 service I had and it has been brilliant, which at least has proved there is no problem between me and my exchange.
40 days uptime at the moment and 1.8 target snr - Just like days of old - Hoping the future as good.
https://postimg.org/image/v17ym40b1/
https://postimg.org/image/akc8qxsaj/

Edited by professor973 (Tue 13-Sep-16 16:52:23)

A downstream sync of 15226 kbps is very good, probably more than adequate to stream 1080p video (I can stream 1080p 25fps YouTube videos 24/7 without any problems with uno/xilo TTB ADSL2+ on a downstream sync of ~12500kbps but I do have graphics hardware issues with 1080p 60fps.)

I hope all goes well with your new Aquiss VDSL connection and the playing of 4k video, please update when you get online.

Thanks - First step out of the way. Line switched back to BTW this morning, so Mi-Fi box for connecting until next week.

In reply to a post by professor973:

Well my line goes back to BTW via Aquiss tomorrow, with Broadband five days later all being well.
Many will remember the problem line I had with other suppliers, but Uno route TBB LLU differently to the Pulse8 service I had and it has been brilliant, which at least has proved there is no problem between me and my exchange.
40 days uptime at the moment and 1.8 target snr - Just like days of old - Hoping the future as good.
https://postimg.org/image/v17ym40b1/
https://postimg.org/image/akc8qxsaj/

Looked good.

I had a problem with BT and they put me onto a new gateway the day after I complained. It's back to running full speed now and no slowdowns in the evenings.

Runs 4K Like a dream!

Cont ... BB back painlessly overnight. Mi-Fi was OK for a week, but expensive if permanent.
Seems it's Enta once again. Were good when supplied by Freeola and at the moment faster than TTB LLU. Back around 16Mbps and 9ms ping like days of old.
https://postimg.org/image/qbbhqql6h/

Edited by professor973 (Tue 20-Sep-16 10:12:26)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does prefixing the call with 1470 work?

Yes it does work, as a TT customer his number is shown and "withheld" no longer appears on my caller display. Interestingly he does not have to include an area code for local calls.

Serious congestion this evening.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5651013931

My Xilo connection was under 1 meg this morning and upload down to 5 meg on a 80/20.

First real issue in nearly 2 years on FTTC - can't really grumble.

Bit of a wobble with BT this morning.

All resolved as of around 10:10am.

Sorry for the interruption.

Matt

Lots of wobbles today I think. Martin is investigating at midnight! Aparrently traffic is 70% above normal tonight, so possibly re-routing due to OR repairs. Picked up again. http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5651627244

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Sep-16 00:06:58)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does prefixing the call with 1470 work?

Interestingly he does not have to include an area code for local calls.

It's been that way for 20 years - didn't you know this?

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does prefixing the call with 1470 work?

Interestingly he does not have to include an area code for local calls.

It's been that way for 20 years - didn't you know this?

During the past 20 years is that the case where one prefixes a local call with 1470 on a TalkTalk landline? Both my friend and I were aware that for local calls an area code is not required but it was only after BatBoy's post that we were able to workaround the issue he had with "withheld" showing on caller displays and neither of us were previously aware of the 1470 prefix.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 22-Sep-16 19:15:07)

Fifa was out to download yesterday so downloading 50GB was certainly slowing xbox live down

Out of interest, now games are becoming more and more digital downloads and can be 50GB+, do you notice a hit on your network when a big release comes out?

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

It's been that way for 20 years - didn't you know this?

Not the case for all though, some area codes like 01202 have to dial the full code even when calling a local number due to a shortage of numbers in that code.

There are a few others too.

Matt

Brilliant - thanks for the reply. it's a shame you didn't answer my sales e-mail, at all.

I wouldn't give on that if I were you !