TalkTalk Business Simply and Pulse8

Hey all,

Am possibly looking at switching to TalkTalk Business on its Simply tariff, and am wondering why it is so cheap in comparison to a provider such as Pulse8, which from looking around on these forums, is reselling a TTB product and does not arrange its own transits, radius etc.
TTB Simply is £20.34 for the first 12 months, and £47.94 for the second 12 months (24 month contract), £819.36 over 24 months.
Pulse8 is £46.00 per month with a single static IP (12 month contract), £1104 over 24 months.
£284.64 cheaper!

TTB will also install a new line and waive the activation fee.

Even if I compare TTB Complete with unlimited landline and mobile calls, which is available with the 12 month discount extended to the full 24 months by calling them,
TTB Complete is £45.54 per month (24 month contract), £1092.96 over 24 months, still cheaper than Pulse8, with the additional landline calls and features, and option for 4 usable IP's included in the price.

Why is TTB so much cheaper, or rather why is Pulse8 so much more expensive, when it is reselling a TTB product and is running its own customer service.

Morning.

I have TTB Complete and I'm in Wales also. No problems here. £45.54 like you said, although with me they did install a new line but wouldn't wave the Activation fee. They have done it as £120 line install, £70 welcome credit and £50 charge. It's sort of naff really but for me it's history now.

I have also looked at Simply for a backup, either ADSL or the 12 months free (on 24 months) FTTC.

Pulse8 are 30 days even for FTTC, so they charge what they are charged (from what I have seen)

People speak well of Pulse8 - For me I have good experience with TTB when I have had to call them (Or raise a case online) I use the Talk2go app rather than have large or unlimited mobile minutes and it works well both inbound and outbound.

Most people don't do long contracts for things like house moves etc, however as you see with "Complete" they offer a free move within the contract, However when you read the small print it's 2 moves within 12 months within the contract. So it's good in that respect also.

I do get the single thread speed problem when I use the TBB speedtester, But it does not affect me in every day usage.

Edited as I got my monthly cost wrong (lol)

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 10:47:42)

So is TTB cheaper simply because of the longer contract duration, or am I missing something?
I can't see a point in joining P8 when TTB are selling the exact same service, with its own customer service, for less!

I guess as it's their network they can do it at this cost. I am not sure what the deal is now but when I signed up I got the discount fixed for the whole 24 months.

The support is in Warrington and it's good from my experience so far

Come onto z.je and talk there...

Done - PM me

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 10:52:27)

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

So is TTB cheaper simply because of the longer contract duration, or am I missing something?
I can't see a point in joining P8 when TTB are selling the exact same service, with its own customer service, for less!

The reason why TTB are cheaper is because being a bigger ISP they can afford to offer big discounts off their standard prices, in return you'll be tied in to a 12/24 month contract though they will let you leave penalty free mid contract if they fail to provide you with their min quoted speeds or fail to resolve any issue to your satisfaction - they've signed up to the Ofcom Business Broadband Code of Practice. You can also leave them penalty free if they put up prices mid contract.

Based on my experience, their Warrington based support is pretty good

I guess smaller ISPs such as P8, Zen, AAISP, IDNet et al don't offer discounts due to their profit margins being smaller.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:09:02)

Thanks for the info frogmella,

Any idea if there is any difference at all in the connection, between Simply and Complete, besides the option for extra IP's included? Priority etc.
I know Complete comes with free house moves, more landline features etc, but I don't think I'll be using the former, and we don't have a phone plugged in!

Of course, ISP's like AAISP, Uno are a little different to P8 in that they don't just resell an entire TTB product.

Edited by LadFromWales85 (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:19:02)

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

Thanks for the info frogmella,

Any idea if there is any difference at all in the connection, between Simply and Complete, besides the option for extra IP's included? Priority etc.
I know Complete comes with free house moves, more landline features etc, but I don't think I'll be using the former, and we don't have a phone plugged in!

Nup, no difference in connection speeds/quality between Simply & Complete service (i've been on both). However if you take out the Complete package, you can use your landline plan on up to 5 smartphones via the excellent Talk2Go app so you could potentially save a small fortune.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:23:31)

Assuming the Talk2Go app works using data? When making calls, do the calls appear to come from the landline number or the mobile? Can one also receive calls to the landline through the Talk2Go app?
The latter isn't really necessary as the number isn't given out.

I guess you were on Simply but are now on Complete, then?

I am with AAISP at the moment, just looking to save a little money as priorities have changed and £60 is a lot for just an Internet connection these days!

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

Assuming the Talk2Go app works using data? When making calls, do the calls appear to come from the landline number or the mobile? Can one also receive calls to the landline through the Talk2Go app?
The latter isn't really necessary as the number isn't given out.

I guess you were on Simply but are now on Complete, then?

I am with AAISP at the moment, just looking to save a little money as priorities have changed and £60 is a lot for just an Internet connection these days!

Yes the Talk2Go app uses your smartphone 3G/4G or wifi data, you have the option to use wifi data only, but TBH data usage of the app is in KB's rather than MB's so i leave both on. Any calls you make from your linked smartphone show up as your mobile number and you have the option to receive landline calls on your mobile, though I have this switched off.

I'm currently on Complete package, currently paying around £38 pm for everything (line rental included).

Edit. BF got there before me

But only 1 mobile can receive the diverted calls.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:32:55)

£38pm inc VAT?
Certainly not as cheap as that now!

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

£38pm inc VAT?
Certainly not as cheap as that now!

No it'll be + VAT. He probably does what most business people do and not speak of the VAT

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:35:06)

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

£38pm inc VAT?
Certainly not as cheap as that now!

Yep includes vat, i signed up to a new 12 month contract last April and they gave me some huge discounts in return.

Edit: just checked my latest bill, its £31.95 ex vat pm for Complete service.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 11:43:30)

What was your deal previously? Just out of interest

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

£38pm inc VAT?
Certainly not as cheap as that now!

Yep includes vat, i signed up to a new 12 month contract last April and they gave me some huge discounts in return.

<--- stunned

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

What was your deal previously? Just out of interest

I was on the Simply package but paying full price (i think around £35pm all in) and on a 30 day rolling contract. As I was happy with the service, i called them up to see what discounts they could offer me.

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

£38pm inc VAT?
Certainly not as cheap as that now!

Yep includes vat, i signed up to a new 12 month contract last April and they gave me some huge discounts in return.

<--- stunned

latest bill

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/BkA0

50% off the fibre complete does look good!

But, I suppose I'll have to make do with free line install and activation, and 30% off the fibre complete for 24 months.

Contract length has gone up too!

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Yep includes vat, i signed up to a new 12 month contract last April and they gave me some huge discounts in return.

<--- stunned

latest bill

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/BkA0

Nice

I can't complain for what I pay, even if it is more.

Naffed off everyone is getting free install and activation when I paid £50 on my "Free line installed if you need it" sales line.

But there you go.

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

50% off the fibre complete does look good!

But, I suppose I'll have to make do with free line install and activation,

See above! Better deal than I got 2 months ago!

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

But, I suppose I'll have to make do with free line install and activation, and 30% off the fibre complete for 24 months.

That's still a good deal. They initially offered me 50% off for 12 months and then full price for the remaining 12 months on a 24 month contract - I slammed the phone down. They called me a few hours later groveling and said i could go on a 12 month contract with 50% off their complete package which i gleefully accepted

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 12:06:35)

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

But only 1 mobile can receive the diverted calls.

Probably good that they do that. If they didn't, imagine your secret mistress calling you on your landline, and other 4 mobiles were also able to answer...including your missus LOL
(metaphorically speaking of course)

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 12:15:32)

In my experience you won't get anything like full single thread speeds with TTB, regardless of whether you are with TTB or Pulse8.

Adam at Pulse8 is doing his best with the TTB megalith, but my current speeds are:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

although they are capable of delivering this if you get on the right segment:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

and in TTB's view it seems you just can't expect single thread speeds to match multi thread speeds.

It doesn't affect my day to day usage of the internet, but does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I'm just glad I didn't take out a 24 month TTB contract.

Having ruled out A&A for years on grounds of cost, I am now actively considering jumping in the other direction.

Just making you aware before you lock into a 24 month contract.

The other thing is that it is relatively expensive to jump back to a quality BTW based IP, should you decide you have made a mistake.

If you are going to leap onto a TTB connection, I'd pay the P8 premium anyday to just be on a 30 day contract, but YMMV.

Few things

P8 have to pay Talk Talk to use their network so that bumps the price up and P8 are alot smaller company than Talk Talk. Talk Talk will lose money on some users depending on download habits but can take the hit as they have millions of users, P8 cant afford to do that

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Few things

P8 have to pay Talk Talk to use their network so that bumps the price up and P8 are alot smaller company than Talk Talk. Talk Talk will lose money on some users depending on download habits but can take the hit as they have millions of users, P8 cant afford to do that

I'm not entirely certain how P8 manage the TTB connections: whether they are registering users on the TTB system or have a capacity type agreement with TTB.

Plus points for P8 is that they don't charge any admin charges if you want to change speed or move from dynamic to fixed IP addresses (within reason). They are very responsive being a small company and because they don't tie you into long contracts they know they live or die by their service offerings.

Single thread performance is absolutely fine on AAISP, I get at least 70Mbps every time I try, on an 80/20 sync line.
I tell a lie, did one just then, 68.1Mbps x1 72.8Mbps x6

Yeah I did consider switching to Uno Fibre+, BTW based with a 500GB peak cap. They want 49GBP to take over the line, and 54GBP to activate fibre.

Even though I am on AAISP, fully TT MPF, TTB are unable to take over the line, and instead will install an entire new line, and waive the activation. Just bizarre.

While I understand single thread throughput on TTB seems to be lower than multi, it is still enough to stream 4K video, if video services used a single thread, which they don't, while being a good bit cheaper!

Hi

Also it depends on the deal they have with TalkTalk. Don't forget going via Pulse8, your monthly charge contains "extra" to cover costs and a profit for Pulse8 in addition to TalkTalk's profit.

Also 30 day contracts have always been more expensive, you pay for that flexibility, if you know you are going to leave after a few months, then Pulse8 becomes a lot more attractive.

In terms of the "product", it sounds very much like with Pulse8, you are getting the same TalkTalk product they would sell you directly.

Regards

Phil

Pulse8 running on TalkTalk Business Wholesale was until recently basically the same backhaul as TalkTalk Retail but a higher priority setting.

I believe very recently it has been upgraded (at no higher price) to TalkTalk Business backhaul and Business support levels (for Pulse8) within TalkTalk.

I am pretty sure the only change Pulse8 has made is the PSTN support level being increased to tier 2, 1 day turnaround, rather than tier 1, 3 day turnaround.
Pulse8 appear to buy an entire product package from TTB, and have increased the PSTN fault turnaround at cost to themselves, without increasing costs for the customer, which is nice of them! The Biz packages have been increased from 2 to 3 too.

But, Pulse8 also cannot take over my TT MPF'ed line, and want to charge 100GBP.

Since the VDSL service on TTB and Pulse8 are exactly the same, I can see no real benefit to going with Pulse8 as it stands, unless I knew for certain I was moving soon, but TTB allow two moves in a 12 month period.

Pulse8 appear to also block websites on the IWF list and sites ordered by court order, like the Big 5, whereas TTB do not, at least according to 23prince...!

Edited by LadFromWales85 (Fri 03-Feb-17 16:22:21)

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

I am pretty sure the only change Pulse8 has made is the PSTN support level being increased to tier 2, 1 day turnaround, rather than tier 1, 3 day turnaround.

Not true. The Home Broadband connections are now at the same priority setting that the business lines used to be at. The only difference between Home and Business is the tier for PSTN support. Home is on Tier 2 and Business is on Tier 3, as you state.

I'm also not sure how Pulse8 can block websites on the IWF ist and TTB don't. Since Pulse8 are reselling you a TTB connection, both have got to either block it or not. One can't do one thing and one the other.

I do understand that a £100 install charge probably swings the migration decision firmly into TTB's favour. I relate to that because that is what most ISPs want to charge me if I go back to BTW (or at least the ones I would want to use).

And to be honest, there's such a bog discount on the Simple product, it is a very attractive proposition at the moment.

So previously, Pulse8 priority across the network was lower previously? I can see why they increased it when TTB themselves offer higher as standard.

23Prince has stated that he can access sites on the block list using his TTB connection with no use of VPN or L2TP, like TPB, Isohunt etc. Pulse8 state it in their terms and conditions that sites are blocked. I imagine when Pulse8 are creating their package with TTB that they can include or exclude features. For whatever reason, perhaps just to cover their backs, they have opted for the UK web filtering, like TT Retail.

Of course, anyone else here on TTB who wants to chime in regarding their ability to access websites listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_block...
It'd help me greatly. I don't generally need to be able to access these sites, but I'd rather know I have Internet access rather than having part of the Internet restricted from me!

In reply to a post by LadFromWales85:

Of course, anyone else here on TTB who wants to chime in regarding their ability to access websites listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_block...
It'd help me greatly. I don't generally need to be able to access these sites, but I'd rather know I have Internet access rather than having part of the Internet restricted from me!

No problems here on TTB, never had any issues accessing 'certain' websites.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-17 17:20:11)

Just checked ISOHunt and works fine via Pulse8.

Just FYI we all share the same pipe out of the exchange, but at different priority levels. Looks as though Pulse8 are now at the same level as TTB where previously we were on generic TalkTalk Wholesale.

What is TalkTalk wholesale in relation to TalkTalk business?
What product do ISP's which don't purchase an entire package from TT, such as Uno and AAISP use?

Good that you can access those sites!

TalkTalk Business Wholesale can be equated to BT Wholesale in a way. It is nothing to do with "Business Broadband" packages as such.

It offers Home/Domestic/SOHO packages or whatever you wish to call them, and Business Broadband Packages.

The people on TalkTalk Business itself here are going through TalkTalk just like they could go through BT Retail, then clicking to go to Business Broadband packages.

Reseller businesses (hence the Business Wholesale moniker) such as AAISP, uno, Pulse8 and many others buy direct services from TT Business Wholesale, with facilities tailored to what they wish to sell to end users.

I don't know how clear that is. The simplest way is perhaps simply to ignore the word "Business" in TalkTalk Business Wholesale, and think of posters here on TalkTalk Business broadband as simply buying a business level service from TalkTalk Retail at a higher price than the consumer products.

In the same way as they can buy a business level product based on BT Wholesale but not direct from them.

My Worksafe was broke for the first few months, It was fixed but broke right after. In the end I was getting homesafe notifications on everything from TBB to My works e-mail and HSBC banking so I said " Look if you can't sort it for good let me out of the contract as blocking every site I access makes the access pointless" and like a Badger on crack they fixed it overnight not only for good - but now when I do put it on (I don't bother anymore) it does apply within seconds.

Happy with it now. But like BF I keep it off - no site yet has come up blocked.

They dont have capacity. You're directly connected to the Talk Talk network. I know this as last year i couldnt connect and Pulse8 couldnt see my connection. Turns out Talk Talk deleted me from their servers for no reason

When i went live with TTB in Oct 2013 the first thing i did was turn off Worksafe and haven't touched it since. I prefer my internet unadulterated

Don't you mean adult(er)rated?

There are different ways though.

For instance I think uno simply use the TalkTalk exchange equipment but not TalkTalk backhaul.

pulse8 need to have a margin so they can have a profit to eat

thats the short answer. Nothing wrong with what they doing.

@23Prince could ya pop onto the IRC...just some questions if you have time!

Send me a PM here please mate, I am no longer on the IRC.

Post deleted by sidneyk

Info from USwitch

TalkTalk Business Simply Fibre Broadband

Upfront costs

router delivery charge. £7.99
-----------------------------------------
Monthly payments Months 1-12

Simply Fibre Broadband = FREE
Pay As You Talk Calls = FREE
Line rental = £16.95/mth
Total = £16.95/mth
----------------------------------------
After 12 month discounted period
Simply Fibre Broadband = £23.00/mth
Pay As You Talk Calls = FREE
Line rental = £16.95
Total = £39.95/mth
---------------------------------------------
Average monthly cost

Over the 24 month contract period, including line rental & upfront costs if applicable
£28.78
------------------------------------------------
Full contract cost

Total cost for the 24 month contract, including line rental & upfront costs if applicable

£690.79

-----------------------------------------------

Seems too good to be true.

Don't forget to add the VAT.

£690.79/24mth

Plus VAT

£829/24mth

£34.53/mth

Still sounds attractive

downside is the 2 year term

In reply to a post by sidneyk:

downside is the 2 year term

Not something I would willingly commit to, but thats your call.

Is there an install charge to consider?