New CSC Rep

It has been announced that another individual who is both a moderator on the plus net forums and a PUGger has now joined the CSC team. Obviously, congratulations go to Mark for making the jump and the best of luck to him in his new role.

Clearly, an individual's right to choose his or her employer isn't something that is in question and not something to be open to scrutiny here.

However, given that this is the second time this has happened in as many months, I am interested in views as to how this reflects on the PUG in particular. Does it not undermine their claimed independence when it seems that joining the user group, (which is there supposedly to be the beady eye of the customer watching over the internal "voice of the customer") is actually now an established route for getting a job at Plus Net towers? It seems to me that it can't inspire any confidence in the group which continues to struggle for credibility, despite being 2 years and 2 days old today.

An alternative viewpoint is that it's a positive thing for Plus Net to be employing people who are closer to customers. However, it all feels a bit too close for comfort to me.

Given that membership at the top table of PUG remains entirely undemocratic and is maintained through self selection, PUG leaders are entirely unaccountable to plus net customers. (We don't even know who the chariman of PUG is, although we do know that there is one.) If membership were through a ballotted process, one question I would feel justified in asking at the hustings would be whether the candidate member could foresee any circumstances in which he or she might seek to be employed at plus net. It would then avoid these apparent conflict of interest issues arising at any later date.

My only thoughts on that matter are can the PUG effectively create 'jobs for the boys'?

If Plusnet employ from the PUG, and the PUG decide who's on the PUG, the PUG & Plusnet are effectively :

a) Trialing possible employees for Plusnet

b) Ensuring that other potential employees from other sources get less of a chance as they've not been vetted, either for skills or for their opinions.

Frankly if I were on the PUG, I wouldn't try to join Plusnet as an employee. Too political for me personally.


All that aside, one wishes the best of luck to all concerned.

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If Plusnet employ from the PUG, and the PUG decide who's on the PUG, the PUG & Plusnet are effectively :

a) Trialing possible employees for Plusnet

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Possibly, and it does once again remind me of PlusnetUserGroups status as supposedly independent not necessarily being strictly true - there is clearly a lot of insider communication, and I don't doubt some of it is controlled by Plusnet before it goes to the community at large.

Seeing members of said group joining Plusnet now, it blurs that line further.

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Clearly, an individual's right to choose his or her employer isn't something that is in question and not something to be open to scrutiny here.

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That should include speculation regarding an individuals motives/integrity and the like. Whilst a debate on the general issue can be valid posters should be careful not to imply a guilt by association just because a person is employed by an ISP for which they have poor regard.

As before, whilst not knowing this person from Adam I wish him all the best starting a new job. One more taxpayer helping to fund the pension for the oh so deserving older generation.

Slightly OT but why do Plusnet customers need to have a PUG anyway? Has it helped to protect customers any better than posts on forums such as this and the official Plusnet one?

Surely if the ISP were doing its job and keeping customers informed through formal channels there would be no need for it.

I've been with a few ISP's before and never seen any unofficial user groups. If I have a problem with my ISP I go straight on the official message board like everyone else and debate it with the staff there. I wouldn't want it any other way.

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Slightly OT but why do Plusnet customers need to have a PUG anyway?

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One of the tests should surely be, whether it's contributed to a better than average service, and the answer is surely no?

I do often wonder...

It seems like an unofficial, but semi-controlled zone...

Plusnet blatantly use it to push "good news" to consumers without doing it themselves.

They themselves often refer to information on the usergroup site (which is a sub domain of plus' own corporate domains), and so on.

It's almost a distant, but not too distant marketing/information dispatch department for Plus. It is very unique, and very odd. But yes, the value of it is somewhat doubtful.

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Seeing members of said group joining Plusnet now, it blurs that line further.

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The Usergroup FAQ, which was last updated on 1/6/06 states:

"A new structure is being put in place that in the future will allow for elections and formal participation at different levels.

I think open elections would go some way to erase concerns about PUG's independence, and whilst I don't think that being elected to PUG should necessarily disqualify somebody from being subsequently employed by Plusnet, a candidate undertaking not to subsequently take-up employment with Plusnet, might gain favour with some electors, in my opinion.

It's difficult to deny though, that ultimately Plusnet have the right to operate PUG how they like, and provided they follow employment legislation, the same goes for who they choose to employ.

Can I just perhaps point out something here that seems to have been overlooked.

1) Both Mark and Liam were forum moderators first.
2) Both were moderators that had been voted in by Plusnet customers on the portal forums.

The two people under discussion in this thread that recently became members of staff werent in PUG when it was originally formed, and...
3) joined PUG after their election by Plusnet Users.

Perhaps it would be useful for PlusNet to take onboard people who already have devoted a huge amount of their own personal time trying to help PlusNet customers?

Both of these people have technical experience in some way or other and an obvious interest and knowledge of adsl. Also as Plusnet customers they will have experienced the frustrations of customers over the past year and therefore be in a situation to understand what its like on the outside.


>> "A new structure is being put in place that in the future will allow for elections and formal participation at different levels

Within the past few weeks we have asked for volunteers to help within PUG.


and no I havent applied for a job at PN, nor am I thinking of doing so

Edited by kitz (Fri 06-Oct-06 11:09:37)

some folks seem to parade it as some sort of scrutinising eye - thus portraying it as a good thing.

in reality it seems to me that its little more than a thinly veiled PR department. cant really see the use of it myself. if it was totally independent then fine but this clearly isn't so it's worth is hard to spot.