Point for PN reps ?

I made this point the other day though it kind of got lost amongst other issues.

A 12 month contract is fair enough for new customers amortising the cost of setting up the account, connection fees etc. However it is unreasonable to insist that an existing customer who has demonstrated loyalty and simply wants to change their product to increase included capacity, add features etc should be tied down for 12 or 18 months and unable to move product again without incurrring substantial cost.

Discounts could be offered on a 12 month contract like the recent £3 per month off on the basis of a 12 month contract. Though I really think that there should be a standard price, monthly contract option for customers who have been loyal for 12 months or more.

Any comments?


Regards.

They won't listen - I said this to a rep in the CSC over the weekend, but his attitude was take it or leave it.

Posed with the question of do existing customers get a free router, whether they need one or not (perhaps to keep as a spare incase of fault with existing kit) he said no. So, therefore, that is another kick in the face for existing customers - no outlay for plusnet, no new hardware, just a nice long contract for them.

Just for reference - it has been said in the plusnet forums by their Reps that you can have the new router if you want it if you take a new contract... The issue could be that if you are already in a contract/min-term to pay off a previous router you could not expect to get another one as one of them will not get properly paid for. There had also been issues with reps saying "can't have one" because it wasn't considered in their original script. Try plusnet's own forums and search on it.

NB: I'm not convinced I'd recommend a 12 or 18 month lock in to anyone. Its certainly mad if you cannot get any of the installation/hardware/discount combination that new users get.

Hi,

We've made a couple of changes to the product rules for existing customers.

Existing customers wishing to move to the new products now have 2 options:
- An 18 month contract with new hardware and introductory pricing.
- A 12 month contract with the introductory pricing but no hardware.

Thanks though that really does not address the point, is it supposed to be some kind of concession?

1/ The long term, loyal existing customer who has helped Plusnet get where they are today cannot stay on a one month contract if they move products.

2/ If they have moved products once, hence to a 12 or 18 month contract, the existing customer cannot move products again without waiting for the end of the contract or paying off the remains of the contract (which could be well into three figures) even if their needs change.

Altogether very negative changes I feel


Regards.

Hmmm. I don't especially want or need a new router. BUT, if new customers paying the same price and locked in for the same period get one, I don't see why I should waive it, either. I'd expect to get the same as they get, or discounts to the equivalent value, otherwise I'm being treated less favourably.

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

We've made a couple of changes to the product rules for existing customers.

Existing customers wishing to move to the new products now have 2 options:
- An 18 month contract with new hardware and introductory pricing.
- A 12 month contract with the introductory pricing but no hardware.

So - that makes two company U-turns in as many working days (the other thread:3577642 involving the decision to allow changing between BBYW).

Tomorrow do we see this contract business for existing customers dropped completely? (we can hope)

Why no option 3 - full product pricing, no introductory discount? and NO Contract (Save 30 days notice) for out of contract customers...

Close Plusnet, but no cigar yet...

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Feb-09 09:58:16)

>A 12 month contract with the introductory pricing but no hardware.

What intro pricing?

first 3 months are discounted, then the price goes up but not as much if you are on a market 3 exchange

Value £5.99 1st 3 Months - After 3 months £5.99 on Market 3 Exchanges £11.99 others

Unlimited £11.99 1st 3 Months - After 3 months £15.99 on Market 3 Exchanges £19.99 others

Its an improvement but I stand by my post on the PN forums that clearly there is a strong management desire to get customers on a 12/18 month lock for the next 12/18 months.

The best hypotheses for this are:
1. To make the financial bottom line look better -> makes new CEO look good
2. To make the financial bottom line look better -> attempt to sell plusnet on
3. Lock ins are a BT obsession -> churn is seen as worst thing
4. Something about the market discounts makes it dangerous for PN to not have the customer locked in. ie. they have a high fixed cost or fixed term at wholesale level
5. Future changes - capacity or IPSC or WMBC or WBC - may impact the service quality and require large investment -> lock in secures the customer base and the money to pay for it.

I'm not expecting you to reply Mand - not your place really - but this was the best place in the thread to post my thoughts.

Another advantage of long lock-ins is they would make capacity planning a whole lot easier.

True, some people will choose to break the contract and pay the penalty, if they're REALLY desperate to switch products or providers. But to be able to predict what the vast majority of customers will be doing in anything up to 18 months time has to make demand forecasting easier. They will know (roughly) how many new subscribers they're likely to get (best and worst case scenarios), but those will be entering on long contracts too, so relatively easy to build into the model.

Have you a link?

http://www.plus.net/?home=hometop#pricin...

Edit - beaten to it and properly by Oldjim

If you click on product on plus.net and more info...

On umlimited at foot.
* Plusnet Unlimited Broadband starts at £11.99 a month for the first 3 months. If you live in one of our low cost areas you'll then pay £15.99 a month thereafter. If you live outside of one of these areas you'll then pay £19.99 a month thereafter.

Market 1 and 2 exchanges are the higher cost, Market 3 exchanges the lower cost...

The popup for plus is not so forthcoming but is £5.99 going to £11.99 after 3 months Market 1 and 2 and remaining at £5.99 for market 3 exchanges.

Sorry the info is incomplete.


kitz has an exchange checker at http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.p...

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Feb-09 13:18:52)

Thanks,

Missed it, but I guess that's the point hiding it at the bottom of the page

I really think PN has taken a step back from their open and honest approach.

Before the changes the list in the center of the page stated length of contract and price all text being the same size.

Now the true price is buried at the bottom of the page along with the lenth of contract. And this is in much smaller text.

Sorry David... but

In all fairness I this time I think you're going too far... Now that Ive visited the page its pretty obvious and the "small print" is not exactly small. if fact medium or a similar size to other body copy on the page. Albeit not headline type as you would prefer. You're entitled to this opinion but to suggest that that page layout shows Plusnet to be less than open and honest is stretching a point somewhat far on this occaision..

Edited...

Given that the reduced price is allegedly available to 80% of the population it is not disengenuous to headline that price.

In addition

* The prices shown here are for the first 3 months.
The ongoing price will then vary depending on location.
** Find out more below

Is highly clear to the left of the product panels...

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Feb-09 14:05:47)

Perhaps other ISPs are being less open and honest by not offering cost savings to people on Market 3 exchanges.. What if anything are other BT based ISPs saying or doing. Seems there's a potential difference of £4-6 per month..

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Feb-09 14:14:26)

I have been a PN customer since July 05 through good and bad. Just over a year ago I accepted their offer of half price for 6 months if you stayed for 12. A couple of weeks ago they renewed the offer at £3 off per month for 12 months.

At this point I must stress that I trust my ISP to be open and honest and point me to their best deal, because I don�t check their site.

For the past few days I have noticed much comment about longer contracts, and changes from legacy to current only being accepted on their terms, Mand confirmed this to me.

What bugs me is having my interest roused, I discover my exchange MRCON is Market 3; I had to learn about this as well! Market 3, I understand could have offered me even more savings by changing from my legacy to a current offer, but PN made no mention of this.

I do hope we, and I use the term we, because I still consider myself part of PN, are not reverting to the pre Neil Laycock days. Messrs Laycock and Wild are no longer with us, and I wonder if the BT Tumbrel is parked nearby?

My teenage Grandson is staying with me and has been looking at ISP�s for his Mother in Edinburgh, as a sharp lad he has concluded PN is not an ISP of choice, in fact his comment. �Grandad you are on the hind tit�. Didn�t do much for my self esteem! If youngsters�, who are tomorrow�s spenders can drive a wedge into PN�s offers, perhaps their suits ought to re-examine, and me be less trustful.

But that's my point about "(more info below)".

Why "below"? why not the same it was?

Theres info below and to the side..

May be not as clear as you would like, but decidedly clearer than most and clear enough to be pretty transparent. If all small print was merged in and increased it would probably be far less readable..

Its a little perverse to jump to it being less open and honest....

keep that powder dry for when its actually needed.

Perhaps Mr Saffron would comment as to its clarity Im sure he would not make the claim that you do.. No offence intended.

bear in mind that the new products may or may not suit you. Older products will give you better performance than the new dependant on what protocols you use. Signing to the new products requires a long contract. Can you state the product you are on and what your typical usage is. People can then advise whether you may want to change and what to.

I agree with you on the publicising the products to you.

The product has only been out a week and already concessions have been made due to customer feedback, with hopefully more to come

Do you agree that it is now less clearer than it was?

In reply to a post by DavidFinbarr:

Do you agree that it is now less clearer than it was?

I suggest handbags at dawn !

Ive got nothing against Dawn shes a nice girl.

Whether it is or is not as clear as it was - the important point is it clear enough? My view yes.

Its bound to be less clear than before as there are now up to three prices to include..
Introductory, Market 3 price ongoing and others ongoing.

Hardly a reason for the paranoia of Plusnet is now not open and honest..

If you are Market 3 and O2 LLU is available to you then that is where you should go with their £7-50 deal.

If not, you should PM James or Mand who will almost certainly offer you a move to one of the new products if you accept a 12 month tie-in.

Yes, I'm afraid that the customer focus in the Product design has suffered since Ian Wild lost the battle and left. If James leaves PlusNet, I'll take that as the final signal ans bail out.

Er, thread kinda hijacked though all good points so in reply to Mand can I say again:

Thanks though that really does not address the point, is it supposed to be some kind of concession?

1/ The long term, loyal existing customer who has helped Plusnet get where they are today cannot stay on a one month contract if they move products.

2/ If they have moved products once, hence to a 12 or 18 month contract, the existing customer cannot move products again without waiting for the end of the contract or paying off the remains of the contract (which could be well into three figures) even if their needs change.

Altogether very negative changes.


Regards.

Let me add my tuppence worth:

If PlusNet is giving me something for FREE then I am happy to be locked in for a period to allow those costs to be amortised.

Otherwise, Locking me in only makes me want to get out!

It's as simple as that.

You not answering the my question tells me everything I needed to know, thanks

I answered your question above.

The pricing structure is more complex than before for obvious reasons
introductory price, then variable price

it is therefore less clear because it is more complex, however the pricing structure is laid out in a clear accessible manner.

If it's not clear to you I am surprised, given how perceptive you normally are. it doesn't fit your Plusnet descending to the dark side theory

Yes, that is how it should be, discount or free hardware on a long contract though with the option of standard priced monthly contracts for customers who have been onboard for 12 months or more.

That is exactly what it should be...

Existing customer out of contract period (excepting 30 days notice) should have the option to join one of the new products, not take up new hardware or any "introductory" discount and continue on the new plan without any extension to existing terms.

Plusnet have lost at least one customer to not adopting this and in my mind is the final part of the jigsaw in restoring the status quo. These are people who generally have been with Plusnet for some time and have no current intention to leave but are considering it on a point of principle.

So can we have some answers/discussion from Plus Net on this one.

In reply to a post by paddyclark:

not take up new hardware or any "introductory" discount and continue on the new plan without any extension to existing terms.

And to move between products at the standard non discounted/no free hardware prices and stay on one month contracts.

I am on BB+. Ian Wild sent me a free router when I upgraded to Vista, and when PN went through the e-mail debacle, they provided a free domain, free use of the domain and free transfer provided I stayed for 12 months, so in my opinion PN are not all bad.

What annoys me is when PN offered me the opportunity of a further 12 months at £3 less PM; no mention was made of the new products. I don�t know the implications of moving my legacy product, other than a new 18 month contract, would I keep my free domain, and because I am only 1 month into the £3 off offer, where do I stand? At the moment I have some web space which I don�t use, but understand the new products don�t include this.

I have not PM�d anyone at PN yet, just living in hope that someone from PN will clarify in plain English, without reference to their web site.

My usage is quite low, and I usually close down my computers at 4pm until 7am therefore BB+ works well for me. The £3 off is nice but with Market 3 a bit more would be welcome!

Before Xmas I changed plan for a 12 month contract and got a "free" router as a
spare. Subsequently I got (I hope!) the further £3 loyalty discount. I did however
only find out about that from these boards.

CS were extremely helpful when I phoned them to make these changes.

I really do not like "introductory" offers and feel they should be banned by law
when the full contract is for 12 months or more.
The problem is however that consumers of everything are deemed to be
generally stupid and will fall for it. This assumtion for the majority is correct so
these practices will not only continue but increase.

Meldrew