What happened?

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/about-virgin-b...

Slower than VM, Sky, BT, STalkSTalk, AOL (now that takes the biscuit) O2/Be, and Orange (ROFLMAO they even beat you)

It's official. Not all broadband is made equal.

That says it all. Although not defending Plusnet, Ofcom's data is quite flawed.

Virgin customer could get their full line rate 24/7 if the network could cope with that - that is no secret. The distance from the UBR (exchange equivalent) does not affect the line rate.

The sample of ADSL customers could have sync anywhere from 1Mb to 8Mb, or 24Mb etc - this would naturally bring down the sync rate of each of the lines creating an average of all lines - something Virgin don't have to worry about.

Another factor to consider is that most of the others have quite a large LLU customer base (bar Plus/BT), so that will skew the results too.

Now, if Ofcom used ALL 8Mb or 24Mb (full line rate) ADSL lines - things would be fairer, but I don't believe they did.

IMHO, this promo of VM is just to artificially make them look great.

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 03-Sep-10 19:55:09)

Just one slight snag.

They are comparing their cable services with ADSL and ADSL2+.

Now what if they compared their Virgin Media ADSLx services with the same other ISPs?

IMHO, this promo of VM is just to artificially make them look great.

Or just to make Plusnet look artificially diabolical

Mind you saying that there are times when speeds are poor on the maaf network and it's supposed to be 90-95% free of traffic management, which is surprising as PN are shifting their customers onto 21CN products where the exchanges have been upgraded so you would think that the pipes on the 20CN network would have a bit less traffic on them.

Maybe they are closing down these pipes or whatever ISPs do so that they can to save some expenditure.

It should be 100% free but that isn't possible on PN's/maaf's hybrid network as everything is traffic managed to a greater or lesser degree.

Edited by Apprentice (Fri 03-Sep-10 21:01:36)

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

so you would think that the pipes on the 20CN network would have a bit less traffic on them.

I'm not so sure. It depends how much traffic they have to manage, or should I say, to what degree.

The more customers bounced over to 21CN may reduce their overall 20CN usage but may not make any real world difference. Edit:.... as new 20CN based users may have joined using that once 'spare' capacity.

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 03-Sep-10 21:06:33)

That's possible and to be fair to PN they do tell us all about the pipes and segments that they have lit when the question of congestion on their network is mentioned.

For me personally up here miles and miles away from the London based servers the £price I pay for my BB connection is half what I would pay to the so called Premium ISPs and I don't think they would improve upon the speeds and service I get from maaf/PN in the real world of the UK network.

I was under the impression that Ofcom used the data from SamKnows, as in all those boxes / routers out in the field?

If you disregard Virgin's speeds totally, all of the other ISPs are faster than Plusnet, and they are all using ADSL and not cable.

The VM link was to show the results purely.

It is still VM cable against the rest. VM BT phone line broadband against the rest would be terrible.

Maybe it would, apart from the fact that VM are obviously blowing their own trumpet. It does not change the material fact that Plusnet, according to Ofcom are worse (for download speeds) than all those other ISPs listed. This is the most recent up to date research / figures as well, or at least the only recognised method of actually recording results from various ISPs with any clout so to speak.

If VM had included their ADSL offerings in the equation, then obviously that may paint a better picture, but the only reality that could possibly change the results to, would be, Plusnet either still bottom, or an improved position from bottom place, up to second from bottom, if you included (and VM ADSL was truly worse than Plusnet) the VM ADSL results.

Either way, it is not a good sign for Plusnet, as they were one of the best a few years ago.

In reply to a post by soundsystem:

I was under the impression that Ofcom used the data from SamKnows, as in all those boxes / routers out in the field?

Like the Linksys one sitting upstairs attached to my TG585v8 - my 8Mb stats were actually well above the quoted figure which is, obviously, an average of trialists.

My stats are taken every hour at 51 mins past the hour and I can, of course, access these.

<<<<my 8Mb stats were actually well above the quoted figure which is, obviously, an average of trialists.

On o2 my stats are more or less the same as you. Also an average, but still it's a higher average than Plusnet achieved, which is the point I was trying to make.

So we can either assume certain things, or not;

1) Plusnet have very few people on the SamKnows trial, and those that do appear, just so happen to have bad / long lines and so the results are skewed, as if by magic (highly unlikely)

2) Plusnet speeds have been wrongly represented and SamKnows is completely wrong (highly unlikely)

3) However, 1) and 2) could equally apply to all the other ISPs represented (very likely)

I know the results are an average, for all of the ISPs, it's just Plusnet appear to have the lowest average, and to add insult to injury, Orange came out better. We all know how bad they are, don't we?

Edited by soundsystem (Sat 04-Sep-10 17:16:22)

Orange LLU seems to be quite good, like many other LLUs. Brought down like Sky Connect and O2 Access by the abysmal non-LLU packages. So the LLU could explain the decent result for them.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Orange LLU seems to be quite good, like many other LLUs. Brought down like Sky Connect and O2 Access by the abysmal non-LLU packages. So the LLU could explain the decent result for them.

That's a fair comment, but then we are getting close to the same arguement theoretically as 'cable would always be better than ADSL' or comparing apples to oranges.

What would be good, is if SamKnows differentiated between LLU and ADSL from BT supplied lines etc - I accept that LLU is nearly always going to be better than the BT supplied equivalent, that we have all known in the past.

Or SAmKnows is deliberately ignoring Plusnet users with good lines. I have a very stable 8MB line; I've signed up for the SamKnows monitoring twice and haven't even had an acknowledgement.

I think the two of us, that have posted on community, both have good lines and were actually getting well above the figure quoted.

Subsequently we have both moved to 21CN 20Mb and, from what one can see, all new Plusnet customers, even Value, will be put straight there.

In reply to a post by nadger:

I think the two of us, that have posted on community, both have good lines and were actually getting well above the figure quoted.

Subsequently we have both moved to 21CN 20Mb and, from what one can see, all new Plusnet customers, even Value, will be put straight there.

Give Neil an email?

Email: team at samknows.com

edit: I meant to quote Jelv, sorry.

Edited by soundsystem (Sun 05-Sep-10 17:48:09)

I know loads of people with very good lines, unfortunately for all ISP's it's those with the rubbish lines and speeds that drag the averages down.

But in reality, there is more people with poorer lines than good lines, so in theory the results should be right or to a degree at least an accurate set of results.

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Mind you saying that there are times when speeds are poor on the maaf network and it's supposed to be 90-95% free of traffic management, which is surprising as PN are shifting their customers onto 21CN products where the exchanges have been upgraded so you would think that the pipes on the 20CN network would have a bit less traffic on them.

We may be moving people across to 21CN (and provisioning new customers on it where available) but that doesn't detract from the fact that we're still growing and only about 50% of the population can get 21CN in the first place.

Maybe they are closing down these pipes or whatever ISPs do so that they can to save some expenditure.

Nope, we continue to light more as per my recent post on Community here. In addition to this there's another two 20CN segments due later this week all being well.

Thanks for the reply Bob

In addition to this there's another two 20CN segments due later this week all being well.

That's good news for all customers using 20CN