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Standard User fig
(experienced) Thu 16-Aug-12 14:54:23
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
laugh

plusnet 4/11/2003 -> 4/3/2009 512Kb-2Mb
O2 Standard LLU 4/3/2009 -> 23/6/2009 ~3Mb O2 Access 13/7/2009 -> 22/6/2010 ~8Mb
plusnet 22/6/2010 -> ?? ~8MB
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Aug-12 14:55:30
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: fig] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by fig:
If the price had to increase for some reason, I'm sure it would go up straight away, but it seems not if it's the other way around.
Not necessarily! True that an ISP could raise prices under the self-same "Changes" clauses, but they then run the risk of you leaving w/out penalty if the increase is detrimental, usually considered as above the rate of inflation. That, as stated, doesn't make good business sense to do so.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 16-Aug-12 15:38:14
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Only Plusnet give better Market 1 & 2 prices, as far as I know (owned by BT).
2 & 3 tongue. But I believe you are right about only Plusnet doing it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Thu 16-Aug-12 16:22:58
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Only Plusnet give better Market 1 & 2 prices, as far as I know (owned by BT).
2 & 3 tongue. But I believe you are right about only Plusnet doing it.


And they would probably get a lot less aggro if they just charged everyone a high price as most of the other ISPs do rather than passing on the lower wholesale costs. Plusnet are currently unique in giving customers the benefit of the BT tiered pricing - but they also get a lot of stick over it.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 16-Aug-12 16:47:06
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
And they would probably get a lot less aggro if they just charged everyone a high price as most of the other ISPs do rather than passing on the lower wholesale costs. Plusnet are currently unique in giving customers the benefit of the BT tiered pricing - but they also get a lot of stick over it.


If Market 1 exchanges constitute 11.7% of the country's exchanges, Plusnet are attracting customers from 88.3% of the remainder. Not to mention a share of the Market 1 customers too.

Would I move if Plusnet charged the Market 1 price for Market 2/3 exchanges. It's very possible. I would have to weight the costs of moving, the price of the opposition, the bandwidth package, the referrals lost (less than £2 smile ) and the usual changing ISP factors.

As already mentioned, Ofcom set the pricing, BT set their wholesale prices accordingly, and Plusnet benfit from their unique position. Plusnet customers also benefit. Are Market 1 exchange customers penalised by being with Plusnet, as opposed to being with another ISP? Not as far as I know.

I'm completely for opening up the Market 1 exchanges for reclassification. That way lies better pricing for all but the wholesalers. Don't forget that I was Market 1 two years ago and was lucky enough to have my exchange reclassified to Market 2, and at the time when Market 2 exchanges were re-evaluated as 'low cost areas'.

Frankly, Ofcom can't really pressure BTw to make the Market 1 exchanges more competitive. How many businesses invite competition without legislation? Equally they can't realistically force the price down, due to the wholsale costs of some of the exchanges.

Back in the mid noughties I was more for pricing based on speed and/or bandwidth. Of course the market expanded quickly without this sort of structure, but only in the higher-density areas. Would 25p per Meg of speed and 25p per GB of download be excessive? Perhaps with a minimum package of £5 for 10GB download.

On my old connection I had 6.5 Meg, which would have been £1.75, and I downloaded say 20GB per month, which would be £5, or a total of £4.25 per month over a basic price of £5, so £9.25 per month.

Someone on 1.3 Meg speeds, downloading the same would pay £8pm. Someone on 75 Meg speeds with 250GB of downloads per month would pay £78.75 per month. Expensive, but said person gets almost 60 times the speed, and uses 12.5 times the capacity. Said person is not paying 60 times the price, or even 12.5 times the price.

With a system of price per Meg and per GB, people would cap at their preferred speed and GB, and web design might be slightly more efficient. See how much webpages have grown in the past ten years:

http://www.websiteoptimization.com/speed/tweak/avera...

Anyway, my preferred system of charging is not in place, and millions wouldn't agree, because they already have max speeds and huge download limits, for as little as Market 1 prices in some cases.

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.
Standard User fig
(experienced) Thu 16-Aug-12 16:59:29
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: fig] [link to this post]
 
Well, PN replied to the ticket with:
Thanks for getting in touch with regards to your broadband cost.

I can confirm that the wholesale cost of broadband has remained the same. The market area classification is set by Ofcom but the market area pricing is set by ourselves. It was Plusnet that are offering the lower prices for Market 2 customers as they were previously billed at Market 1 prices.

We made the lower prices available to new customers and existing customers based upon there request. Other companies still charge higher prices for Market 2 customers. Any customer who makes us aware of a new Market area classification will be immediately changed but no backdating of funds will be applied.

We can advise that your broadband price has now been changed to the market 2 area pricing.

We trust this answers your query in full.


So, price dropped from next billing period, but I'm notifying that I'm on Market 2 and was before July 2011 not of a market area classification change so I've asked about the 12+ months of refund too....

plusnet 4/11/2003 -> 4/3/2009 512Kb-2Mb
O2 Standard LLU 4/3/2009 -> 23/6/2009 ~3Mb O2 Access 13/7/2009 -> 22/6/2010 ~8Mb
plusnet 22/6/2010 -> ?? ~8MB
Standard User flippery
(regular) Thu 16-Aug-12 17:01:04
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
It would be illegal for BT Wholesale to offer a pricing differential to one ISP against another.
It is just that maybe only Plusnet pass this on.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 16-Aug-12 17:06:26
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by flippery:
It would be illegal for BT Wholesale to offer a pricing differential to one ISP against another.
It almost certainly isn't illegal. Quantity discounts and so on are probably still in place. Just that those have to be available to all.
It is just that maybe only Plusnet pass this on.
Precisely.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User 4M2
(experienced) Thu 16-Aug-12 17:18:50
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Interesting stuff smile

Generally it does seem as if the onus is on the customer to find, ask for or renegotiate a better deal in this day and age.

For example, I called up npower today regarding my dual fuel bill for electricity and gas and discovered that by paying a standing change rather than a higher rate for the first number of kWh for both services I could lower my annual costs.

This was of course based on my particular annual consumption where, as a relatively light user, the higher rate units were disproportionate in terms of my total usage - a household where usage is higher would pay a greater proportion of the bill at a lower rate and thus having a standing charge could be more expensive.

The deal was not offered to me automatically, rather like PN not informing existing customers of the lower prices for market 2, it was only by me being proactive that the new deal was offered even though they were fully aware of my circumstances.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Aug-12 17:38:44
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Re: PN Market 2 charges


[re: fig] [link to this post]
 
Good, as expected.
In reply to a post by fig:
Any customer who makes us aware of a new Market area classification will be immediately changed
but it's really not a new Market area classification as such, but a new pricing policy from PN for Market 2 exchanges. So you shouldn't need to make them aware; they already know. It's more a matter of you claiming fair dos.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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