User comments on ISPs
  >> PlusNet plc


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Jul-15 12:18:46
Print Post

Missing icon from PN portal


[link to this post]
 
I've only just noticed but there is an icon missing from this page of the portal anyone else noticed it's gone?

http://s4.postimg.org/z9htgz531/Plusnet_Portal.png

Maybe they are doing maintenace on the website again after yesterdays issues.

plusnet user
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Jul-15 14:01:11
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Forgot to mention the icon is the one for "High Speed Broadband",

http://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide...

plusnet user
Standard User alext05
(committed) Wed 08-Jul-15 14:02:28
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,141...

Still waiting for an update


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Jul-15 14:04:09
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
Cheers smile

plusnet user
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 08-Jul-15 17:33:36
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Gosh, whatever next? I await the disappearance of the usage information because it's irrelevant on unlimited packages.

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 65000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Wed 08-Jul-15 18:30:02
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kasg:
Gosh, whatever next? I await the disappearance of the usage information because it's irrelevant on unlimited packages.


Have you tried accessing usage info - icon is there but I only see a message saying temporary unavailable

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 08-Jul-15 18:35:46
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kenneth:
Have you tried accessing usage info - icon is there but I only see a message saying temporary unavailable

Working OK for me.

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 65000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User alext05
(committed) Wed 08-Jul-15 18:41:59
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Ok. It's gone.

https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,141...

Round of applause for Plusnet.

Well in line with their recent policy that can only be described as "Here today, gone tomorrow!"

Must be advice from their PR agency - Bananarama.
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Jul-15 20:16:01
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
Looks like they are dumbing down their approach to BB so as to match that of TalkTalk as well as trying to compete on price tongue laugh

plusnet user
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 08-Jul-15 20:42:42
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Systematically removing the (internal) ways that users can analyse their service. Not a good sign.
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 08-Jul-15 22:21:29
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Yes indeed I wonder what's next to be erased from PN history.

plusnet user
Standard User dparr59
(committed) Wed 08-Jul-15 22:34:03
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal *DELETED*


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by dparr59
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Jul-15 08:32:23
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
Must be advice from their PR agency - Bananarama.


Please don't disparage Bananarama by implicating them as a marketing agency frown I thought they did some great songs.
Standard User longedge
(committed) Thu 09-Jul-15 08:39:59
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Systematically removing the (internal) ways that users can analyse their service. Not a good sign.


Somewhat understated IMHO but ne'er a truer word was said 8^)
Standard User alext05
(committed) Thu 09-Jul-15 09:22:24
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I have to admit that was a fundamental error of judgement on my part.

I would like to categorically confirm that Bananarama is in no way a marketing agency and have nothing at all to do with the recent Plusnet's customer service exploits.

Let us all enjoy the true Bananarama!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkcU2_Vs7Xw
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jul-15 09:50:01
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
Let us all enjoy the true Bananarama!

Good karma

plusnet user
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 09-Jul-15 10:01:25
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
[cough]
"Kaperís sister agency Karmarama already acts as Plusnetís creative agency".

You sure it's good Karma?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 09-Jul-15 12:39:49)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Jul-15 11:54:34
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
smile
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jul-15 17:48:53
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I can't predict what the future holds tongue

plusnet user
Standard User awontroba
(learned) Fri 10-Jul-15 08:26:24
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Apprentice:
Yes indeed I wonder what's next to be erased from PN history.

https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer... still works for me.
Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
16.8 Mb

(ADSL2)
However, it may well no longer be running on up to date data and might vanish.

--
Adrian
Standard User longedge
(committed) Fri 10-Jul-15 08:34:07
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: awontroba] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by awontroba:
still works for me.

In my case it varies by about 0.5 mps from the BTW further diagnostics page which gives the slightly higher figure. Perhaps some rounding taking place.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 10-Jul-15 09:56:23
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
It's meant to be slightly below the IP Profile. AIUI, these days the round 100kbps below it on FTTC/ADSL2+, (WBMC), perhaps different on ADSL Max (IPStream Connect).

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 10-Jul-15 09:58:37)

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Jul-15 10:12:56
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: awontroba] [link to this post]
 
Yes I know some links still appear to give access to that page see High Speed Broadband at the bottom of the page in the link below I posted earlier:

http://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide...

Strange.

plusnet user
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Fri 10-Jul-15 11:39:33
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Apprentice:
Yes indeed I wonder what's next to be erased from PN history.


See - http://www.camieabz.co.uk/isp

The PN capacity charts are gone. There's still the profile page (per post above).

Next to go? Customer support stats would be my guess.
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Sat 11-Jul-15 00:05:53
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Well, before I read your response to Apprentice, I was thinking exactly the same.
After today's appalling figures (again) - a few moments ago (before midnight) - I wouldn't be surprised.

Residential call stats Average answer time today 53 minutes and 11 seconds

Business call stats Longest call waiting now 39 minutes and 30 seconds
Average answer time today 39 minutes and 30 seconds

But Plusnet are too stupid to realise it won't matter if this information isn't available, people will time how long they waited and post the information anyway.

As far as the Current Line speed goes, people will just post that Plusnet are capping their speeds if speed test results are below the IP Profile. Again, Plusnet are too stupid to realise what will do the most damage.
It was a diagnostic tool which was used most if there was any speed issues, and most people waited a short while for it to update if it wasn't matching the IP Profile. It's absence will just mean more calls to Support. That's real clever Plusnet.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Jul-15 00:30:47
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It's meant to be slightly below the IP Profile. AIUI, these days the round 100kbps below it on FTTC/ADSL2+, (WBMC), perhaps different on ADSL Max (IPStream Connect).
Which does result in a reduction of the max downstream throughput level by as much as around 2-3 mbps on a connection that can achive the max sync rate of 80mbps, Even when they manually set it to 78mbps it would still restrict the max throughput rate,artificially capping IMO

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 11-Jul-15 00:32:37)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 09:50:29
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
You know very well Tommy that the major reduction is the Openreach IP Profile, which is common to all FTTC, including Sky and TalkTalk. That is ~0.9679 of sync when G.INP is not implemented and ~0.9669 when it is.

As I said, on Plusnet the effect on FTTC of their Current line speed is at most 100kbps.

Deliberate misinformation for the sake of having a rant for the nth time is not helpful to people who come here to have things explained to them.

Edit: Also your references to millibits per second are pathetic from someone who professes to know what they are taling about. Megabits per second is Mbps, equalling 1,000,000mbps.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-Jul-15 09:59:56)

Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Sat 11-Jul-15 11:03:14
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
One minor correction there Roberto, on FTTC the Current Line speed (Login required) is rounded down to the nearest 200kbps, it's 100kbps on 21CN and it's the exact BT IP Profile on 20CN. HTH.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Jul-15 12:30:04
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
You know very well Tommy that the major reduction is the Openreach IP Profile, which is common to all FTTC, including Sky and TalkTalk. That is ~0.9679 of sync when G.INP is not implemented and ~0.9669 when it is.

As I said, on Plusnet the effect on FTTC of their Current line speed is at most 100kbps.

Deliberate misinformation for the sake of having a rant for the nth time is not helpful to people who come here to have things explained to them.

Edit: Also your references to millibits per second are pathetic from someone who professes to know what they are taling about. Megabits per second is Mbps, equalling 1,000,000mbps.
Firstly We all know that you are still defending the indefensible (Plusnet)

And my reference of mbps or with a capital M if you prefer was to bandwidth and not HDD space(millibits) lol
And as i have been a plusnet customer too who had a VDSL2 80/20 service, with a BTW IP profile of 77.44Mbps fast-path and 77.35Mbps since G.inp'ed
When the secondary Plusnet profile was set Automatically by their systems to
77.40 or 77.30 the max achievable downstream throughput was around 72.50 or less, when requested by me they set it to 78Mbps throughput was 73.5Mbps
or less
Since i migrated to another ISP would also use WBMC from BTW my throughput is 75Mbps So my conclusion is that their secondary IP profile was restricting /artificially capping my max downstream throughput rate and not by the 100/200Kbps that you alluded too ,

So it could be said that the use of this secondary IP profile is really about them saving bandwidth so their claims of not slowing customers down are factually incorrect IMO

Also there is the other issues reported quite frequently on various forums , that issue being the Failure or long delays in the Plusnet IP profile updating , in the 2yrs that i was a customer, i had to call them several times about this,

usually after DLM had relented and my full sync rates had been re instated the plusnet profile failed to update for more than 24hrs , and was only changed because i rang them and asked them to manually change it

Oh yeah this is very relevant as it is directly related to the now missing icon , line speed or whatever they call it AKA plusnet IP profile and the often incorrect BTW speed estimate ,

I don't think a little info regarding how this secondary IP profile can and does affect customers throughput rates is "Deliberate misinformation" at all people deserve to know about this assuming they didn't already, Why should i keep quiet about it ? toi keep your dream alive maybe?
and another observation you are factually incorrect regarding BT openreach being responsible for the IP profile, The IP profile is a BTWholesale implementation and nothing to do with Openreach

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 11-Jul-15 12:50:03)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 14:26:15
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Firstly We all know that you are still defending the indefensible (Plusnet)
Childish rant. You will also find both on these forums and if you know where to look on the Plusnet Community forums many posts by me recently severely criticising Plusnet.

Grow up. Attack the post, not the poster, especially when you are wrong.

Some bits in your new reply may be valid, but not really comprehensible. They may have been fine if you had posted them in an understandable way in the first place, instead of the misinformation you repeat. Some of it however clearly useless without the full context of the figures you give.

You are absolutely right of course about where the IP Profile is set, though my figures are correct. It is also possible on FTTC the PN line speed is up to 200kbps below the IP Profile, as stated by Chris ... checks mine ... IP Profile: 55.82 Mbps; Current line speed: 55.8 Mb, so yes.

The stated reason for the Current line speed is to prevent packet loss at the BT Wholesale MSAN from Plusnet feeding data too fast. Plusnet are able to buffer the feed. I believe that statement.

More importantly, when you say the Current line speed
does result in a reduction of the max downstream throughput level by as much as around 2-3 mbps on a connection that can achive the max sync rate of 80mbps
you are simply wrong. You aren't stupid, therefore you know it isn't true, and are merely blustering rather than admitting you are combining several issues you personally are aggrieved about.

Have you now left Plusnet then? Please could you include the IP Profile when stating your throughput speed of 75Mbps. Any reason for not telling us the new ISP? That might be helpful to somebody, unlike the rest of it.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-Jul-15 14:28:38)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 14:27:53
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ChrisAO] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Chris, I hadn't realised that and was still going on the ADSL2+ figure. See my reply to tommy just now, which has my current figures.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 11-Jul-15 17:48:08
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm, when did that change I wonder? Confirmed by my 62Mbps (BT) vs 61.8 (Plusnet)

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 65000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 18:09:54
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
Dunno! I'm fairly sure it was 100kbps, just as per the normal WBMC ADSL2+ one. Do you think the same?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 11-Jul-15 18:18:53
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I'm pretty sure it was the last time I checked it.

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 65000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 18:51:11
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
Didn't I nominate you as my referrer, back in 2012? If it disappears, thanks for the fish smile.

I'm looking at my BT Line Rental at the moment - £21.71pm E & W + £1.85 basic 1571 + £1.75 caller display + TPS. (I'd swear I got out of that by contracting for 12 months, and don't remember any reminders). That's £24.31pm rental!

£14 from Pulse8broadband (without the broadband) for all except the E & W. Uno coming up soon probably cheaper.

I made 12 calls in the quarter to 17 April, 6 of which were free, the rest costing £5.85.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-Jul-15 18:51:51)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Jul-15 19:30:05
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Firstly We all know that you are still defending the indefensible (Plusnet)
Childish rant. You will also find both on these forums and if you know where to look on the Plusnet Community forums many posts by me recently severely criticising Plusnet.

Grow up. Attack the post, not the poster, especially when you are wrong.

Some bits in your new reply may be valid, but not really comprehensible. They may have been fine if you had posted them in an understandable way in the first place, instead of the misinformation you repeat. Some of it however clearly useless without the full context of the figures you give.

You are absolutely right of course about where the IP Profile is set, though my figures are correct. It is also possible on FTTC the PN line speed is up to 200kbps below the IP Profile, as stated by Chris ... checks mine ... IP Profile: 55.82 Mbps; Current line speed: 55.8 Mb, so yes.

The stated reason for the Current line speed is to prevent packet loss at the BT Wholesale MSAN from Plusnet feeding data too fast. Plusnet are able to buffer the feed. I believe that statement.

More importantly, when you say the Current line speed
does result in a reduction of the max downstream throughput level by as much as around 2-3 mbps on a connection that can achive the max sync rate of 80mbps
you are simply wrong. You aren't stupid, therefore you know it isn't true, and are merely blustering rather than admitting you are combining several issues you personally are aggrieved about.

Have you now left Plusnet then? Please could you include the IP Profile when stating your throughput speed of 75Mbps. Any reason for not telling us the new ISP? That might be helpful to somebody, unlike the rest of it.


You can try and discredit me all you want, But facts are the plusnet IP profile slowed the max downstream throughput that was achievable by as much as 2.5-3megabits that isn't a rant that is fact,i don't care if you don't believe me, my BTW IP profile is no different now that it was when i was with plusnet in fact there was no re sync or config changes made so is still 77.35( G.inp ) but i get a higher max downstream throughput

If all the other isp's that sell BTW products don't need or use a secondary IP profile why does plusnet, for their traffic shaping /throttling and yes they do as a result throttled back every connection as a result, and this traffic management is of no or little use benefit if you do not use multiple devices connecting to the internet simultaneously & they do not provide an option to opt out of this, So for 2yrs they capped my throughput by 2-3megabits per second thats a small saving on its own but multiplied by their customer base that becomes a huge saving per year, they don't advertise this do they?

Oh BTW it was you who attacked me by calling me a liar delibrately giving mis information, I speak as i find and just because you don't agree or like it, doesn't mean it's untrue

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 11-Jul-15 19:33:37)

Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 11-Jul-15 19:43:04
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Didn't I nominate you as my referrer, back in 2012? If it disappears, thanks for the fish smile.

Yes you did, thanks very much and I picked up a few others subsequently from the forums but you're the only one left as all the others migrated away! Like you I am annoyed by the recent negative changes at Plusnet but at the moment there is nothing that is actually detrimental to my service and I am on a very good deal so I have no immediate plan to move. I certainly won't be renewing the Plusnet LRS when it is due and will be shopping around for a better line rental deal.

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 65000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Jul-15 21:17:44
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
I have two motives.

The starter was sheer shock at the direction the BT poodle CEO has taken with the recent changes. The huge early-warning sign was the destruction (there is no other word) of the superb Digital Care Team. No doubt there have been many other changes behind the scenes that we don't see.

Then his complete failure to solve the Customer Support phone and ticket services problems despite the huge investment entered into in the Leeds call centre before his arrival(?) to add to the Sheffield one. That has singularly failed and has to be his sole responsibility.
He's been in post over eighteen months.

Now he panics, closes down all easy and from the customer point of view effective methods of contacting support, and even further emasculates the already hog-tied "Customer Relations Team".

I actually have huge sympathy for the poor souls employed in that. The infrequency of their appearance here, and the little they can offer when they do turn up, is as nothing to the scripted platitudes they have obviously been instructed to trot out on the Community Forums. They used to be able to bite through the system and fix obvious wrongs PDQ, but now we get useless replies. (I was looking just now for a particular one but it may take me a while).

They are reduced to being untrained PR people. Their training is in customer support, and damn good nearly all of them were. Some of the new intake to it are clearly newbies to Plusnet, and de facto highly unsuitable to the role we associate with these people.

I don't really want to be a customer of a company that behaves like this to its customers, and to me almost more importantly to its staff. We can walk in a few days. They have it much harder, and must be enduring considerable anguish because of how they are having to respond to us.

That's motive 1. However, so far as I can tell my service since I completely ditched my IPv6 trial login, even though for many weeks it has only given me an IPv4 address, has suddenly gone from unpredictable performance swings to rock-solid. Leaving me in a quandary.

Motive 2 arises from the above, as it caused me to look around. Including the Home::1 package from AAISP. For 78/19.5 that is very expensive, so I looked at their phone prices. Not actually realising how high my BT rental had become.

Lo and behold, AAISP actually have a line-only rental at £10pm!! To which can if desired be added VOIP. Currently investigating now cheaper WLR3 suppliers as the VOIP doesn't really work for my low usage and increases the price, and I'm unsure about having no incoming line if I don't take it.

As a result I now have a couple of FTTC suppliers under consideration as well, but neither requires line rental with them. I may end up with a pick'n'mix.

Or! I may stay with PN on price grounds while my service is good. But what if I get a problem? Will they be any use at all? I have my doubts. Line rental is definitely moving from BT. That's the beauty of not having a bundle/LRS.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User longedge
(committed) Sun 12-Jul-15 08:58:08
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Must agree with the comments expressing sympathy for the staff caught up in this. I know from my own past experience how soul destroying it can be to care and be doing your best day after day when you are hamstrung by decisions and sometimes prejudices coming from 'the top'. Perhaps PlusNet of a couple of years ago was a victim of it's own success.
Standard User StephenTodd
(experienced) Sun 12-Jul-15 11:49:39
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
I agree with comments about sympathy for the staff.

Does anyone know what became of the excellent (Romanian I think it was?) BE staff? I jumped ship from there as its slide started and shortly before the O2 takeover, which was followed of course by the Sky takeover. They said they were keeping on the staff, but I wonder how long that lasted?

Not exactly a Plusnet issue, but I guess a lot of BE users ended up here.

--
Recently moved from BT Infinity 2 to PlusNet. Very happy so far.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 12-Jul-15 11:57:50
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
The ex BE bulgarian staff are now assisting sky pro customers, but that support forum is locked off to the public.

Personally to me they dont look that good compared to plusnet forum staff.

Plusnet Fibre Unlimited BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Jul-15 20:01:10
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Are you actually complaining about losing a couple of Mb at 70 odd Mb/s?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Jul-15 20:39:06
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Are you actually complaining about losing a couple of Mb at 70 odd Mb/s?
yes i actually am, dam right i'm complaining as it does not matter what my sync speed is, the isp should not be Capping throughput because of their traffic shaping/Secondary IP profile, that i did not want or need,(there should be a way of opting out of it) particularly when they advertise and make claims that they don't slow you down or throttle ,they IMO shafted me and are shafting all their customers and they know this, but will never admit it, but as long as they have people who think what ever they do is ok this is what the rest of us will have to put up with
BTW are another company who like to shaft people but lucky for them they don't deal direct with EU's

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 12-Jul-15 20:48:40)

Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Jul-15 22:02:43
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
IMO shafted me and are shafting all their customers and they know this

Rubbish. That you fail to understand what is happening doesn't mean that someone is shafting you although one mustn't discount the possibility that someone at PlusNet might just have got a bit tired of your continual whining and decided to specifically target you.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 12-Jul-15 22:09:20
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
I think he's left, but he won't tell us which ISP now gives him 75Mbps.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57840/12740kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Jul-15 23:06:25
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The ex BE bulgarian staff are now assisting sky pro customers, but that support forum is locked off to the public.

Personally to me they dont look that good compared to plusnet forum staff.


Personally, I've had a rock solid 80/20 connection from Sky (at full 80/20 sync) for 18 months+ - it never misses a beat, you get all the speed, all the time, no fuss and no need to contact support ever because it just doesn't let you down.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Jul-15 23:07:48
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As I said, on Plusnet the effect on FTTC of their Current line speed is at most 100kbps.


From some PN FTTC I'm involved with, I'd disagree.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Jul-15 23:26:26
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
It was pointed out earlier that 200kbps seems to be the case.

I think you may be saying that there seem to be other throughput losses. I think you may be right, but that isn't the same thing as the hard cap that the Current line speed sets before those kick in.

It could be to do with the buffering involved in the prioritisation system. Given the overall throughput increase due to the increase in the number of customers, plus the radical change in the way people use the net in the last couple of years, it wouldn't be surprising if that side of the system wasn't creaking.

Queuing systems are complex beasties smile. A small slowdown in one place can cause a huge jam elsewhere, as on motorways.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57840/12740kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 15-Jul-15 00:29:13
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It was pointed out earlier that 200kbps seems to be the case.

I think you may be saying that there seem to be other throughput losses. I think you may be right, but that isn't the same thing as the hard cap that the Current line speed sets before those kick in.

It could be to do with the buffering involved in the prioritisation system. Given the overall throughput increase due to the increase in the number of customers, plus the radical change in the way people use the net in the last couple of years, it wouldn't be surprising if that side of the system wasn't creaking.

Queuing systems are complex beasties smile. A small slowdown in one place can cause a huge jam elsewhere, as on motorways.
Well the affects in reality for me where a dam sight more than only 200kbps when set to 77.4 or a 77.44 BTW profile , it improved when set to 78mbps but still resulted in a lower throughput than what i should of had, I don't really care what part of they system was responsible,
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 15-Jul-15 00:33:27
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
IMO shafted me and are shafting all their customers and they know this

Rubbish. That you fail to understand what is happening doesn't mean that someone is shafting you although one mustn't discount the possibility that someone at PlusNet might just have got a bit tired of your continual whining and decided to specifically target you.


Perish the thought that i may of complained about the [censored] service i was getting on an all too frequent basis why shouldn't i complain? Why should anyone put up with & keep paying for service's or goods that aren't fit for purpose
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 15-Jul-15 01:58:29
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
IIRC you put up with it for well over 12 months after you were out of your minimum term.

However, for the third time, what's so secret about the name of your perfect new ISP?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57840/12740kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 15-Jul-15 02:05:30
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
IIRC you put up with it for well over 12 months after you were out of your minimum term.

However, for the third time, what's so secret about the name of your perfect new ISP?

12mths min term on FTTC ,lol try 18mths min term, and nothing so secretive about my new isp , and i did not say it was perfect either, all i said is that my throughput isn't any longer restriced by minus net and their secondry IP profile and their un needed traffic throttling
Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 15-Jul-15 02:10:17
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
why shouldn't i complain?

No reason at all other than that in your case complain, or rather more often whinge, is all you ever seem to do regardless of the ISP you are using at the time.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 15-Jul-15 02:10:36
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Nothing secretive, but a complete failure to identify it.

Clearly we speak different languages.

G'nite smile.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57840/12740kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 15-Jul-15 07:31:04
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
thats what I will be hoping to rely on.

Plusnet Fibre Unlimited BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User longedge
(committed) Wed 15-Jul-15 08:44:03
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
IIRC you put up with it for well over 12 months after you were out of your minimum term.

12mths min term on FTTC ,lol try 18mths min term,

Is it me? - I can see "out of your minimum term" but I can't see "out of your minimum term of 12 months".

Obviously I don't know the back story here but I'm intrigued as to why anyone would be reluctant to say who their ISP is?
Standard User godsell4
(regular) Wed 15-Jul-15 08:45:44
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ChrisAO] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ChrisAO:
It's absence will just mean more calls to Support. That's real clever Plusnet.


maybe we should arrange that readers of this forum all agree to raise a fault report each Sunday night and ask to know what their current line speed is. with the number of people on support, this probably will only take them a few days to work through all the tickets!

PlusNet Unlimited Fibre 3Mb to 5Mb
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 19-Jul-15 15:36:19
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
"Fit for purpose"

Do you know what that means? 70 mbps instead of 75 mbps is still fit for purpose.

You are paying for an "up to" service.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Jul-15 01:37:59
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I have two motives.

The starter was sheer shock at the direction the BT poodle CEO has taken with the recent changes. The huge early-warning sign was the destruction (there is no other word) of the superb Digital Care Team. No doubt there have been many other changes behind the scenes that we don't see.

...

Leaving me in a quandary.


I pretty much find myself with the same thoughts, motives, and quandary.

I find myself reaching the conclusion that, if I get a non-trivial failure of service, I cannot trust that I will get reasonable, timely customer service, and that many of the tools and options I would use to make things happen quickly are disappearing.

But can I afford the downtime that migrating will bring for sure?
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Jul-15 01:38:55
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It was pointed out earlier that 200kbps seems to be the case.

I think you may be saying that there seem to be other throughput losses. I think you may be right, but that isn't the same thing as the hard cap that the Current line speed sets before those kick in.

It could be to do with the buffering involved in the prioritisation system. Given the overall throughput increase due to the increase in the number of customers, plus the radical change in the way people use the net in the last couple of years, it wouldn't be surprising if that side of the system wasn't creaking.

Queuing systems are complex beasties smile. A small slowdown in one place can cause a huge jam elsewhere, as on motorways.
Well the affects in reality for me where a dam sight more than only 200kbps when set to 77.4 or a 77.44 BTW profile , it improved when set to 78mbps but still resulted in a lower throughput than what i should of had, I don't really care what part of they system was responsible,


In the spat between tommy45 and RobertoS, I have to stand on tommy45's side on this one. On some complaints, I find him overly harsh, but this is spot on.

Plusnet's IP profile system does seem to lop 2-3 Mbps off the possible throughput speed on an FTTC line synced at 80 Mbps.

I have experienced this on my current line, this year, where throughputs of 74Mbps+ were possible at first, but (after DLM intervention & de-intervention), the maximum is back down at 72Mbps.

Last year, on my previous line, I did some testing for Dave Tomlinson. When he set the profile to 77.4, I got speeds averaging 72.5. When he changed the profile to 92, I got speeds of 74.7.

I even saw similar issues on my first FTTC line, back when you could only get 40/10 services.

These differences aren't just guesses either. Regular repeated tests with a Samknows box helps produce incontrovertible graphs. An example can be seen from my recent post on the PN forum:
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1418...

I have made similar posts before. I'm not especially complaining about my line speed, but none of those posts have resulted in changes to the overall throughput, or an explanation why it happens. It means that PN's average speeds show themselves to be lower in Ofcom's reports, for no publicly-explained reason.

The question of whether this happens has been put to bed. The question about why it happens has not.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jul-15 02:27:49
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I think you put that very well but come to the wrong conclusion. You effectively contradict yourself in your final sentence. Why it happens has not been put to bed.

My only statement is that it isn't the Current line speed itself causing the problem. If they used the IP Profile itself in their system the problem would still be there.

It could very well be a systemic problem in the interaction between that and the traffic prioritisation system when passing data through at such speeds. Or it could simply be that the buffering system that is used to hold the speed down to the required value is old and under-powered.

Do we even know it isn't caused in the BT Wholesale cloud? We need some IDNet, Zen, AAISP results. Infinity may not be reliable for this purpose as I believe it's handled differently within BTW.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57676/14040kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Jul-15 05:03:22
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I think you put that very well but come to the wrong conclusion. You effectively contradict yourself in your final sentence. Why it happens has not been put to bed.


Isn't that exactly what I said? "The question about why it happens has not."

Confused... but to be clear: We haven't been given any explanation, so currently have little idea why this happens. We haven't even really had it acknowledged as a valid thing for them to investigate.

Edit: While PN have not acknowledged this as a bug or a feature, deliberate or mistake, sound engineering or unfortunate requirement ... the one thing they've tended to be happy about is to leave my line on an artificially-high profile. That works until I have an unfortunate DLM episode that ultimately returns the profile to "normal".

My only statement is that it isn't the Current line speed itself causing the problem. If they used the IP Profile itself in their system the problem would still be there.


I'm sure the problem would still be there too - it seems to be an deliberate configuration choice within the Plusnet system where their choice of throughput allowed when the "Current Line Speed" is labelled 77.4 is insufficient to fully utilise the link.

In the end, you're both right. The 200Kbps in CLS makes almost no difference. But the 2Mbps difference between what *is* and what *could be* is significant.

It could very well be a systemic problem in the interaction between that and the traffic prioritisation system when passing data through at such speeds. Or it could simply be that the buffering system that is used to hold the speed down to the required value is old and under-powered.


There could well be these reasons, or a myriad of similar ones ... but Plusnet have chosen to never enlighten us. Grabbing 2Mbps might be sound engineering, but the absence of an explanation leaves room for conspiracy theory to grow.

(I'll add that I think the explanation is unlikely to ever surface from the new Plusnet. It is something of a surprise that it never did from the old Plusnet, however).

Do we even know it isn't caused in the BT Wholesale cloud? We need some IDNet, Zen, AAISP results. Infinity may not be reliable for this purpose as I believe it's handled differently within BTW.


Two things suggest not.

a) Other subscribers, on other ISPs, seem to report results around 75Mbps all too easily.
This suggests that there isn't a reliable common explanation for a BTW-based cause.
b) A configuration change wholly within Plusnet is enough to release this missing speed.

But who knows? It certainly could be some strange interplay between PN and BTW.

Edited by WWWombat (Wed 22-Jul-15 10:43:00)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 22-Jul-15 12:17:17
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
it is supposed to be so plusnet's downstream QoS works and improves your line, because there has to be a unused amount of capacity on the linerate for QoS to work properly.

However all this seems to go to pot when I analyse what happened after I moved to sky, in short the experience on sky is better, e.g. samknows tests no longer cause my latency to spike anywhere near as high. I also get a better bufferbloat score on bufferbloat tests (without router side QoS).

e.g. on both sky and plusnet if I download a plusnet game and have no router side QoS I get packetloss, steam opens dozens of connections and acts like a p2p app. In theory plusnet's QoS system is supposed to save me from that but did nothing. Router side QoS can control it but is a bit of a pain to tune right as ingress QoS is not supported as much as egress QoS.

The reason I think plusnet's QoS is ineffective is simple, they still buffer a ton of traffic so it does nothing to maintain latency whilst downloading.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 22-Jul-15 12:19:53)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jul-15 12:51:10
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
You forget my point about your post smile.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Plusnet's IP profile system does seem to lop 2-3 Mbps off the possible throughput speed on an FTTC line synced at 80 Mbps.
You do not know that the (agreed) loss of throughput is due to the Current Line Speed system.

At the end of your post you say the question as to what causes the loss of throughput is not put to bed.

That is the contradiction in your post. At the start you blame the CLS, at the end you say the cause isn't known.

I don't say the CLS isn't involved. I do say I don't believe it is the only factor.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57676/14040kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-Jul-15 10:21:04
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
it is supposed to be so plusnet's downstream QoS works and improves your line, because there has to be a unused amount of capacity on the linerate for QoS to work properly.


I agree that this is a perfectly plausible, rational, explanation, though I'd buy it better if it only sliced a few kbps off the top.

Personally, however, I wouldn't rate a QoS system highly if, when trying to squeeze high priority protocols into a fully-occupied line, it had the side-effect of limiting how full the occupied line could be when no high-priority traffic was present.

The problem is that I've seen no indication from PN that this is indeed the case - either as a deliberate measure or an unfortunate artifact.

It is interesting to see the results of your comparison to Sky. Are the bufferbloat tests significantly different?
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-Jul-15 10:30:35
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
You forget my point about your post smile

You do not know that the (agreed) loss of throughput is due to the Current Line Speed system.


I didn't forget, but I equally didn't give enough emphasis to what my experimental data shows.

You're right that I don't *know for certain* that the problem can be put down to the CLS system, but over 4 years, the various results I have seen tell me that this is the only location it could be. If I were part of Plusnet, and had access to their internal systems, that is the only place I would be looking ... but I'm not, so I can't investigate further, and have to leave it at that. I accept that.

Why am I convinced that the cause lies within the CLS system?

I started with no correlation. The very earliest issues appeared to be related to switching gateways on PPP-reconnection, but there was no strict correlation to that either (much like the recent congestion issues).

Over time, I had eventually made an informal correlation between the highest speeds & an excessive CLS-value, and the same correlation between the lowest speeds and "normal" CLS-values. But I had no way to change CLS-value in a controlled manner, and perform decent experiments; but occasional changes (either at manual request, to set artificially high values, or automatically-induced, to set regular values) helped build the case over the course of a couple of years.

The final correlation came when, as I mentioned in my original post, I did some testing with Dave Tomlinson. He made changes to the CLS value that helped establish, in my mind, the direct correlation between CLS value and truncated speed.

(Aside: As things ended, I had to stop detailed testing because of health issues. The next thing planned would have investigated how CLS settings affected behaviour under load - giving more indication of QoS balance. I wasn't up to concentrating on the detail needed for that, at the time)

For me, I am happy to continue to believe that the loss of throughput is an established feature of PN's connections, and I am as happy as I can be (without becoming a PN employee) that the CLS system is the host of the cause. The combination of these two is what makes me say that "The question of whether this happens has been put to bed."

I further state that "The question about why it happens has not" because we have had no input from PN staff; we cannot know what it is about the CLS system that turns the loss of throughput into fact. Putting the blame on CLS is not the same as understanding why CLS behaves this way.

To me, both statements stand, and are not a contradiction.

I do recognise that, for anyone else to believe my position, they also have to accept my interpretation of my experiments & results.

And with that, I'll have to withdraw from the debate, as I won't be around much over the next two weeks.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 23-Jul-15 10:43:45
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
And with that, I'll have to withdraw from the debate, as I won't be around much over the next two weeks.
If that means you will be having some treatment for the ill-health you mention, I wish you well.

If merely on holiday - enjoy smile.

If working away from home ....

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57676/14040kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 23-Jul-15 10:45:05)

Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-Jul-15 10:50:49
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ta. The health thing rumbles on, but without quite such an impact to concentration levels.

But this break is "just" a holiday wink
Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-Jul-15 11:30:26
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
But this break is "just" a holiday wink

There isn't such a thing as "just-a-holiday"!! wink

Make sure you have a good one! laugh

Regards,
John
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 23-Jul-15 16:18:15
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
in some test cases yes.

One scenario had me scratching my head for weeks, when I enabled QoS using the asuswrt GUI, the buffer bloat remained high on the upstream which I was putting down to an issue with the router (and it may still be) after the sky migration that issue went away, on plusnet I had to do some custom QoS on the upstream to get buffer bloat under control, so either a plusnet issue or a pppoe related issue on the router.

I think the isp is more likely to have an effect on downstream buffer bloat, on the downstream side of things the difference is not big, but if I analyse buffer bloat with no QoS management on the router, sky is superior to plusnet. The latency doesnt spike anywhere near as high when the line is busy, however the packet loss seems to also be higher on sky, the packet loss is only an issue when downloading with steam tho (possibly also with torrents but not used any torrents recently). Both isp's had packetloss when downloading with steam at full speed but I think is more severe on sky. Which suggests sky dont buffer so much traffic. In both cases if I have downstream QoS on the router it removes the packetloss.

Also i have found reducing the downstream speeds via QoS generally at my sync speed (72-74mbit) at least 0.5mbit needs to be free to see noticeable affects on latency, but with things like steam which opens dozens of download connections, more like 2mbit needs to be taken off.

This is why I see plusnet's QoS as a failure, if it was working as promised, then I would expect to see no packetloss whilst downloading from steam but i did, not so bad as sky but still enough to affect other activities.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:14:01
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The reason I think plusnet's QoS is ineffective is simple, they still buffer a ton of traffic so it does nothing to maintain latency whilst downloading.


I expect the real reason you find that is because you are not maxing out your connection.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:22:52
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
This is why I see plusnet's QoS as a failure, if it was working as promised, then I would expect to see no packetloss whilst downloading from steam but i did, not so bad as sky but still enough to affect other activities.


Isn't steam counted as a download server? and so will get traffic managed more heavily?
I personally suspect that there might be an issue with the Traffic management not working as promised. Several people have suggested that they may not have enough CPU capacity on the Traffic management servers now and there's been absolutely no comment from Plusnet on that (unless I missed something).

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:23:02
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ChrisAO] [link to this post]
 
so you think I dont know what throughput I am getting?

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:24:26
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ChrisAO] [link to this post]
 
yes but that would only be managed for the legacy plusnet packages. Steam will max out on a plusnet unlimited line.

Note I mean packet loss for non steam traffic.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:28:53
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Last year, on my previous line, I did some testing for Dave Tomlinson. When he set the profile to 77.4, I got speeds averaging 72.5. When he changed the profile to 92, I got speeds of 74.7.


But what Gateway(s) were you on? From my observations the amount of speed drop seems to be dependant on which Gateway you are connected to.
I haven't kept notes, and appreciate you may not reply until you get back.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:30:50
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
so you think I dont know what throughput I am getting?

I didn't say that, but also I didn't read you later posts before replying, so my comment there is really irrelevant.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User ChrisAO
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:41:44
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
yes but that would only be managed for the legacy plusnet packages. Steam will max out on a plusnet unlimited line.

Note I mean packet loss for non steam traffic.


What traffic specifically? VoiP or gaming? And sorry, traffic is still "managed" even on plusnet unlimited fibre, but maybe/likely not correctly.
(see http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/tr... or http://usergroup.plus.net/prodcomp2.php and select Plusnet Unlimited Fibre).

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User ChrisAO
(learned) Fri 24-Jul-15 18:48:14
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It was pointed out earlier that 200kbps seems to be the case.

I think you may be saying that there seem to be other throughput losses. I think you may be right, but that isn't the same thing as the hard cap that the Current line speed sets before those kick in.

It could be to do with the buffering involved in the prioritisation system. Given the overall throughput increase due to the increase in the number of customers, plus the radical change in the way people use the net in the last couple of years, it wouldn't be surprising if that side of the system wasn't creaking.

Queuing systems are complex beasties smile. A small slowdown in one place can cause a huge jam elsewhere, as on motorways.
Well the affects in reality for me where a dam sight more than only 200kbps when set to 77.4 or a 77.44 BTW profile , it improved when set to 78mbps but still resulted in a lower throughput than what i should of had, I don't really care what part of they system was responsible,


Whilst the CLS may be set upto 200kbps lower than the IP profile, there is still around a minimum 2Mbps drop in throughput below that at these higher speeds. You may well find that the larger decreases are dependant on which Gateway you are on. But tommy45 can't check that now, so there's little point in arguing about it any more.

ChrisAO
Plusnet customer since June 2003.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 24-Jul-15 19:07:18
Print Post

Re: Missing icon from PN portal


[re: ChrisAO] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ChrisAO:
In reply to a post by tommy45:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It was pointed out earlier that 200kbps seems to be the case.

I think you may be saying that there seem to be other throughput losses. I think you may be right, but that isn't the same thing as the hard cap that the Current line speed sets before those kick in.

It could be to do with the buffering involved in the prioritisation system. Given the overall throughput increase due to the increase in the number of customers, plus the radical change in the way people use the net in the last couple of years, it wouldn't be surprising if that side of the system wasn't creaking.

Queuing systems are complex beasties smile. A small slowdown in one place can cause a huge jam elsewhere, as on motorways.
Well the affects in reality for me where a dam sight more than only 200kbps when set to 77.4 or a 77.44 BTW profile , it improved when set to 78mbps but still resulted in a lower throughput than what i should of had, I don't really care what part of they system was responsible,


Whilst the CLS may be set upto 200kbps lower than the IP profile, there is still around a minimum 2Mbps drop in throughput below that at these higher speeds. You may well find that the larger decreases are dependant on which Gateway you are on. But tommy45 can't check that now, so there's little point in arguing about it any more.
No i can't but others can,

Re gateways, the newer BNG's gave me a higher downstream throughput of around 2-300kbps when compared to the older PTN's and PTW's

Latency was around 1-2ms lower on some of BNG's ,

buffer bloat was less on the older gateways though, going by tbbqm's

But there are no two ways about it their use of a secondary profile and associated traffic management was artificially restricting the max throughput on my connection, and i suspect I'm not the only customer to suspect this,it's probably more easily spotted on connections that sync at the full rate as easier to compare results from speed tests with customers from other ISP's that supply services via BTW .

And yes BTW's IP profile also does this , but going by Sky speedest results only by around 1mbps That considered Plusnet customers with FTTC could be losing upto 3-4mbps of throughput as they are getting hit twice
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to