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Standard User vimto_girl
(committed) Tue 28-Jul-15 14:28:56
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
It was a broadband and phone package contract which we were allowed to leave within the minimum term due to Plusnet's price rises.
Standard User vimto_girl
(committed) Tue 28-Jul-15 14:56:32
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
An ISP can't just write anything in their T&Cs and hold a consumer to it. 'You can't sign your life away' as they say.

LRS is not a gift, it is an upfront payment in return for line rental. There is a discount for the upfront nature, and in effect the agreed early termination charge is 100% of any unused payment. In this regard, in the normal course of a contract, non-refundable LRS/upfront payments are perfectly fair.

However, where the business wants to unilaterally increase a contractually agreed price, such a contract term is not enforceable. To be a fair and legal contract term, and to conform to Ofcom regulations which apply the law (General Condition 9.6), any right to modify a contract to the material detriment of the consumer must be counterbalanced by the right of the consumer to leave the contract without penalty. This is absolute.

Trying to increase an agreed price without refunding upfront payment for unused service is a penalty and holds the consumer to ransom, giving the business unilateral and unfair advantage from its balance of power. Ofcom have published documentation where they say they would treat non-refundable upfront payments as early termination charges even though they are not usually named as such.

Ofcom assisted in getting the refund from Plusnet, though ultimately it had to be Plusnet's decision and it does not mean Ofcom have made any ruling on the matter of course. I do know they are actively investigating this issue for formal enforcement though, so it is definitely not the case that Ofcom approve not refunding unused LRS in this situation.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:15:48
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
Ofcom assisted in getting the refund from Plusnet, though ultimately it had to be Plusnet's decision and it does not mean Ofcom have made any ruling on the matter of course. I do know they are actively investigating this issue for formal enforcement though, so it is definitely not the case that Ofcom approve not refunding unused LRS in this situation.

I was about to ask you how hard you had to fight Plusnet for the refund. Pretty hard by the sounds of it!

If Ofcom start enforcing mandatory repayments of LRS in the event of price rises, and it's something which appears likely from what you say, I think we'll be seeing the end of LRS across the board. Maybe Sky saw the writing on the wall for LRS some time ago when they pulled out of it, or simply they too found it an unfair way to hold a customer to a contract term in the event of a price rise.

Oliver.


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:20:58
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
The BT discount for LRS is now about £20 for the year. That is much less attractive for giving them an up front payment.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:32:27
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
its clear LRS days are numbered, even without ofcom intervening I believe LRS will disappear as the savings compared to normal line rental go down every year to a point the isp will say there is no longer a place for LRS.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:36:36
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I agree. LRS cost saving has falling recently £60 saving, £40 saving and now £20 saving and next year could be zero saving!
Standard User Spud2003
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:54:24
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
So, I will phone up pulse8 first thing in the morning to discuss about new migration system if it still accepting by BT Openreach / BT Wholesale FTTC to LLU FTTC (TalkTalk Business 80/20) with the phone bundle.


So what did they say about migration? Still the same issue of FTTC->ADSL->FTTC rather than FTTC->FTTC?
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:56:08
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Spud2003] [link to this post]
 
Pulse8 say FTTC to FTTC should be done on same day (just like Sky did) but there is a charge of one off fee of £30 for the work involved by BT

Edited by adslmax (Tue 28-Jul-15 15:57:40)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 28-Jul-15 15:56:48
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Given how much easier the new migration process itself is now turning out to be, maybe this is why the saving on it in future, as complained about vociferously on the Community forums, is so small. We may be about to see higher churn rates than previously, with the loyalty engendered by discounts eroded. Particularly if Ofcom do stamp on the non-return.

Using easy figures, say there is a 20% discount on £20pm. Standard £240 for the year becomes LRS £192. After roughly on average six months they have to refund half, and the company has £96 plus the use for the first six months of the refunded £96.

Make it 10% discount and standard £240 becomes LRS £216. Refund half leaves the company with £108 and the use of the refunded £108 for the first six months as well.

Multiplied up by the number that leave, that's much nicer for the bean-counters.

There will be some who stay, through whatever happens. They will still take the reduced discount LRS and the company wins on both fronts.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57676/14040kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Spud2003
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 28-Jul-15 16:01:34
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Re: Consider leaving plusnet


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Are you certain, their FAQ still says -


I already have fibre on a Openreach (BT) line with another provider. How can I move over?


At the moment we would need to migrate your line and broadband over to our standard network which involves a 10 day cooling off period (as enforced by Ofcom). On the day of the migration you would need unplug your Openreach Modem and plug a standard ADSL modem into your line with the new details we have provided.

We then wait for 24 hours before placing a Fibre Upgrade order on your line to get you onto our fibre service which usually take a week.

https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/faq
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