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Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Jun-16 08:04:05
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Out of interest how long is the initial training period with Fibre or is there one? I've noted that some say there isn't a training period with Fibre.

I've also noted that whilst my Line sync is at 39.06Mbps/1.952Mbps and remained that, my actual speed has gone from around 36Mbps on day 1 to around 20Mbps on day 2/3. Also I've noted that according to the routers uptime that it must have reset/rebooted at once or perhaps more times. (Unless the router is unlike the norm and reboots/resets when the wifi settings are altered - which I've done)

The router hasn't been purposely reset/rebooted by me and nor have I seen it do so.

Is there a definitive initial routine that happens with Fibre setups when they are first installed or does it differ from isp to isp and customer line to customer line depending on certain characteristic best known by BT Group?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jun-16 08:49:59
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
See Section 2.2.1 of BT SIN 498.

The "intervene" there is a drastic move which is called banding. That occurs, we have seen many cases, but much more common is interleaving is applied costing often around 10Mbps sync and adding 8ms to latency. Or more.

We could do with seeing the full stats from your router.

In terms of what BT Wholesale say about training periods, that is utter bosh just like it always has been on ADSLx. The truth is that at the end of the ten days BT Wholesale sets a couple of figures to do with how it handles speed fault reports. See this page on my website. That needs updating as it refers to BTW ADSLx, but explains the principal. On FTTC it cannot have anything like as much effect as apart from the three Openreach stability settings, which as far as I know are requested by the ISP, they have no control over the line. It's all Openreach.

Even what is regarded as a speed fault by Openreach is set by Openreach. They have their own rules, with nothing whatsoever to do with MSR and FTR. ISPs also have their own approach. Some say tough luck as long as you are above the minimum of the BTW estimate for Range B, others will look at what has happened on your line following the first two days, as per that SIN. I don't know Plusnet's current position on that, but for years it was that if you get to support staff who know what they are doing then they will fight your corner if there is something obviously unusual going on.

If your sync is still at the ~39/2 speeds, then run both the [http://speedtest.btwholesale.com]BT Wholesale Perbformance Test (ignoring the red instructions), and go to the further diagnostics. Then copy and paste the down and up results text boxes please.

Also include what your Plusnet Current line speed is set to.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 22-Jun-16 08:51:45)

Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Jun-16 09:03:30
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the info Bob it is much appreciated.

Estimated line speed:
40Mb (This may vary between 80Mb and 80Mb) - Checked on 2016-06-06 11:07:07

Current line speed:
21 Mb

Actually this is as far as i've got as i'm currently on the phone to them and the tech guy has just said i'm on an adsl2 profile.


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Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Jun-16 09:30:11
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
The technical chap at Plusnet has set the speed back to what it was on day 1, but reiterated when I asked about training periods that Fibre still had a 10 day training period. I imagine I could get a different opinion if I spoke to another technical agent. It's this big ISP thing again that I'm not used to after being with IDnet for years and Zen before.

Anyway, the Plusnet portal hub thingy now says:-
Estimated line speed:
40Mb (This may vary between 80Mb and 80Mb) - Checked on 2016-06-06 11:07:07
Current line speed:
37 Mb

and the BT Wholesale further diagnostics test says:-
Down: 34.31Mbps currently and 38.71Mbps achievable
Up: 1.85Mbps currently and 2Mbps achievable

All I really want to know is should I be expecting this line rate of 37Mbps (as per Plusnet portal) to remain as now and as per day 1 or should I expect to see that rate vary for x amount of days and hopefully then settle at 37Mbps or thereabouts?
I don't really want to be bothering Plusnet if in fact the line is behaving as it should do after going live.

EDIT: Slightly off the subject I see Plusnet allow you to upgrade your Broadband to PRO for £5 month :-

Pro Add On
Upgrades your service to a top-class prioritised connection, ideal for online gaming and working from home. Subject to a 1 month contract


Source:- https://www.plus.net/AddOns.html

Edited by Vorlon (Wed 22-Jun-16 09:39:35)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Jun-16 09:58:53
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Does the router you are using provide any stats about the VDSL service ? If it does they may give a clue to what speeds may be available and also how stable.

Also could you describe the physical set up in your property, whats connected where and how.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jun-16 10:10:22
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
There have been several hiccups recently with the PN Current line speed been erroneously set to that ADSL2+ 21Mbps at the end of the two days. Tha's why I asked you to check it and compare with the IP Profile.

Now it is sorted you should be fine. I don't recall it recurring on lines where it happens early on. I think you can relax. Your BT IP Profile shows maximum, so DLM hasn't got upset.

There is no "training" of the kind that is worrying you smile. SIN 498 is quite clear about that. The only three major causes of significant speed change are faults that develop, new noise sources arising between you and the FTTC cabinet, and possibly cross-talk caused by new FTTC users on lines running close to yours in a bundle. Solving the last of those is what vectoring is about, but progress on that is slow.

If you look at the BT Wholesale estimates table in the blurb under it they continue with the 10 day rubbish. All BT Wholesale ISPs are therefore stuck with it. Including IDNet and Zen. It's ridiculous that BTW have never changed the wording, or the policy of not accepting speed problems until the end of it.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jun-16 10:18:57
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
I forgot! Pro is not needed. It is an add-on for legacy products that have real traffic shaping and throughput caps applied at certain times of day. Not current products which automatically prioritise gaming, VOIP and similar time-critical activities both on your own line and over the network.

It could even jepardise those on current products by letting streaming, YouTube and the like grab all the bandwidth.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Jun-16 10:41:12
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The only three major causes of significant speed change are faults that develop,

...... The single most common issue being incorrect set up, bridge taps and the like, the faster it goes, the fussier it becomes.

But you know all this Bob smile And I recall Vorlon as posting on here way back when, so hopefully he knows too.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Jun-16 11:32:40
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Of course smile. But that wasn't the question.

The OP was connected some time on Monday and is still connected at full downstream sync and IP Profile. The factors you cite may have reduced his Max Attainable, from the 80Mbps of the BTW estimator, but they don't appear to be affecting his actual figures. I don't recall what level of stats detail is available from the PN router. Full stats are what we need for that investigation. (@Vorlon - is that what you are using, or is it something else please?).

AIUI they also in general apply to the initial (and then ongoing if such a problem is present, until it is solved) actual figures. The question was whether or not his line should now be stable, or might he get lower speeds as the "10-day period" runs.
All I really want to know is should I be expecting this line rate of 37Mbps (as per Plusnet portal) to remain as now and as per day 1 or should I expect to see that rate vary for x amount of days and hopefully then settle at 37Mbps or thereabouts?
The answer to that is no, unless one of the three possibilities I listed comes about. Which can happen at any time in the future to any of us.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Jun-16 14:25:46
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Re: Advice please guys, Using Plusnet.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The router is Plusnets own Hub One i think its called and apparently the same as BT's HomeHub 5a. It has limited settings and information unless there is a secret area to avail more info.

Basically I installed modem on monday and had what looks like it's going to be my max speed eg 37/2.
Day 2/3 and I'm down to around 21Mbps, so I'm wondering if there still is a training period and I just have to bide my time that's fine if it's the case.

I contact PlusNet this morning and spoke to a chap in technical support, who mutters something about stuck on adsl2 profile, but I find that strange when from the outset I had a good 37Mbps.
Then I wait on hold for him to sort something on the system. When he returns he gets me to reboot router and check speed and it's back to the day 1 speed of around 37Mbps.
He says the issue shouldn't happen again so I then query about the so called "Training Period". He tells me that it still is a function and that it takes 10 days. I did politely challenge his comment but he just reiterated with confidence that this is the case!

So now I have a router running at a reasonable speed. It's faster than what I had but some sites are just not as snappy and instant as they were when i was with Idnet. I'm a little dissapointed, but I do have fater speeds even though general surfing is sluggish.

I have considered buying a new VDSL router. It's a shame that my Asus DSL-N55U which has been superb only supports up to ADSL2+

Also that "Pro" upgrade is available easily from my log in page as extras for your service. It makes no mention that it's no longer required and it wouldn't surprise me if people had tried and succeded to sign up for it.

I did pay the one off fee for a fixed IP address which I prefer.

EDIT: I have narrowed down the reason why my laptop is now quite lacklustre in internet performance. It seems that the PlusNet hub (and I've checked/tweaked the WiFi settings as neccessary) isn't being friendly with my Laptop Broadcom Chipset. It's never been an issue on Wifi with any of my ADSL2 routers.
Trying though a TP-Link Archer T4u USB3 Wifi Dongle which I normally use on my PC whilst sorting my wired setup proved to perform well with the PlusNet hub.

I'd still prefer a different VDSL modem, but what to buy is another question.

Edited by Vorlon (Wed 22-Jun-16 15:46:51)

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