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Standard User georgelnx
(member) Thu 08-Dec-16 09:38:27
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Single Thread Speed Issues


[link to this post]
 
Getting a massive 0.9Mbps on x1 at the gateway pcn-bng01 (84.93.253.70)
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14811...
Switched to psb-bng02 (84.93.253.110) for an improvement
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14811...
But it used to look like this http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14772...

Oh happy days

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 08-Dec-16 10:18:31
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for doing for gateway switch, helps to show its not my fault smile

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Thu 08-Dec-16 11:06:49
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
You're welcome.
Yep, good old gateway switching to the rescue (slightly) but I think that my preferred gateways (AG whatever) have now gone as Bob Pullen said they would be for the scrapheap. Shame as they are better than the BNG devices for me.
Looks like me and Plusnet will be through next year if they don't sort out their congestion issues at their 2 data centres.


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Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Thu 08-Dec-16 12:49:54
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
I have just had one test with similar on single thread - but 52 on 6x, then one a few moments later it was both as expected around 52. didn't seem to impact uploads which were at least expected

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 08-Dec-16 13:24:41
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
The cause of these issues could be any one of many things, which is even why I havent jumped in claiming network congestion (and a few on here know I tend to do that).

Modern isp networks are more complex than they were say 10 years ago due to the need to filter out certian types of traffic, this means they are scanning traffic, of course in plusnet's case they also run their own advanced QoS kit. This means there is additional things to go wrong.

Their could be a bottleneck on a DPI device, such i/o or, cpu which restricts tcp stream performance at busy times.
Could be their QoS actually throttling traffic as its determined it needs to for whatever reason.
Could be network congestion.
Could be a bug in firmware/software.
Could be a BT wholesale problem.
Could be a misconfiguration, obviously increased complexity increases the chance of this happening.

Given that plusnet cannot do ipv6 on the BNG equipment, I have a gut guess that this is hand me down equipment from BT branded broadband services that has been deemed no longer suitable for the modern requirements of BT broadband.

Because plusnet are now quite secretive we can only speculate. frown

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Thu 08-Dec-16 14:12:09
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Secretive is not the word.
Uncommunicative is more like it.
Posting on their forum is quickly becoming a waste of time as staff ignore more posts than they help with.
And anytime you mention performance issues, well that will be ignored for a month or two until lots of people complain and ISPREVIEW gets involved. Then they will admit to an issue and start looking at things.

Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Dec-16 15:16:03
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Well this sounds familiar. It was about this time in '14 when it cropped up the first time. I wonder if it'll take eight months to fix second time around?

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Dec-16 15:17:41
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Bob Pullen is still trying to help and still willing to give out technical information.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User longedge
(committed) Fri 09-Dec-16 09:02:46
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
It looks as if there are ongoing problems again this morning. My session was dropped around 8:15 for around 15 minutes. I thought that my need to constantly gateway hop was a thing of the past but as fast as one connection settles down the BQM 'red mist' re-appears. I only seem to be able to connect either to Colindale or Southbank now and a couple of days connection is the best I can hope for. My days of 60 plus days stable connection have gone now that things have been 'improved'. I presume that I've been moved to the new network.

Edited by longedge (Fri 09-Dec-16 09:03:32)

Standard User georgelnx
(member) Fri 09-Dec-16 09:51:23
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
It does seem to me too that I can only get Colindale and Southbank. Always used to prefer be on Telehouse North.
If you have been switched to the new network, there should be a closed ticket in the Plusnet Ticket Wizard for the move.
Also if you are on a dynamic IP address then the gateway name will include the letters "-IR" at the gateway checker for the new network.
Static IPs are always sent to a BNG gateway irrespective of old or new networks.
I still seem to be on the old network.

Standard User longedge
(committed) Fri 09-Dec-16 10:08:44
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Ahh..... thanks - no closed ticket and no "IR" so not been moved apparently. I am on a static IP and as you say only ever get a connection to a *-bng * gateway. I used to connect to Telehouse and had virtually no problems. There's always been loads of yellow on my BQM but it's only in the last week or so that I've started seeing red and likewise it's only since I got 'stuck' on Colindale and Southbank.

Edited by longedge (Fri 09-Dec-16 11:39:33)

Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Dec-16 10:34:11
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
Ahh..... thanks - no closed ticket and no "IR" so not been moved apparently. I am on a static IP and as you say only ever get a connection to a *-bng * gateway.
Same here and my connection was fine last night.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User IanBB
(committed) Fri 09-Dec-16 15:57:39
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by georgelnx:
Static IPs are always sent to a BNG gateway irrespective of old or new networks.

I'm on a static IP address currently connected to ptw-ag04 in Telehouse West.
Standard User andygegg
(regular) Fri 09-Dec-16 16:41:19
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've got the same problem on BT FTTP - single thread struggling below 1Mb/s, 6x at full 52Mb/s. It's been like it for several hours; I've rebooted PC and HomeHub making no difference.
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Fri 09-Dec-16 16:53:43
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Are you seeing different results on the flash based test to the new one? For upload speed I am seeing a very different result between the two, the non-flash version a giving much higher speed.

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Fri 09-Dec-16 16:57:34
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
@IanBB
I'm not able to find the AG's anymore and PN forum staff are just saying that the AG's are going/gone. They haven't been clear about whether they have all gone or how many have gone to date.
Hence I only put BNG down.
Hope you hang on for as long as possible on that AG but it will vanish.

Standard User georgelnx
(member) Fri 09-Dec-16 17:05:53
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
@kenneth
Haven't tried the new one for a while, still using the Flash version as old habits and all that. It isn't really the top speed number reported that interests me, it is
1. The long term trend as I test at least once a day;
2. That the x1 and x6 results are overlapping and are straight lines;
3. The effects visible to me (page loading times , gaming responses,TV streaming, VOIP issues).
As you can tell the 0.9Mbps on the x1 test didn't impress me nor does the gap between the x1 and x6 tests and the wavy lines on the current gateway.

Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Fri 09-Dec-16 17:15:45
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Judging from what I see, it looks like one of the tests is bypassing Plusnet's rate limiting for uploads on my line (not that I am complaining) - I wonder if they have messed up the routings

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Dec-16 19:09:30
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
psb-bng01

Everything absolutely fine here.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 09-Dec-16 19:27:23
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
With PlusNet traffic management this is very possible, the flash is a custom protocol for the single download and sometimes gets lumped in with P2P in management systems

The html5 version the single download is HTTP (or SSL if you use HTTPS e.g. https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest ) with the multiple just being six at once

Edited by MrSaffron (Sat 10-Dec-16 00:17:36)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Dec-16 19:44:50
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It would help if you didn't include the closing ) in the URL!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016)
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Fri 09-Dec-16 20:01:49
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
ssl produces similar results to http (so also bypassing their rate limits) - http was being limited last month when I last check speed so I wonder what they changed

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Fri 09-Dec-16 20:45:31
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
I have now tried the labs test version on https and had similar results to the Flash version on all 3 sections of the tests (x1,x6,upload)

Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Sat 10-Dec-16 12:13:53
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
It seems rather strange to me that 1x is impacted, but 6x isn't - most likely that would indicate rate limiting and a complete mess up on Plusnet's system, as opposed to any network issue

If I was seeing such issues and no quick fixes - then I'd be looking at changing ISP, but I am now out of min contract period

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Sat 10-Dec-16 12:26:19
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
I am on the static IP address with plusnet

Which gateway

You are currently connected to gateway pcn-bng01.

This is located in Colindale Point of Presence.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/e8db8097e7c...
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Sat 10-Dec-16 12:29:16
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
I also have static IP - gateway is psb-bng01."This is located in Southbank Point of Presence."

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User s_h
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 17-Dec-16 09:22:57
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
Also a static IP
You are currently connected to gateway pcn-bng04.

This is located in Colindale Point of Presence.
and oddly slow speed this morning - 3 tests all download around 30Mbps when it is normally steady at around 50.5 Mbps, upload normally around 9.3 Mbps:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

(sorry somewhat off topic as the single thread speed isn't an issue here, just the overall speed drop)

Edited by s_h (Sat 17-Dec-16 09:26:28)

Standard User georgelnx
(member) Sat 17-Dec-16 09:38:19
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
Bob Pullen confirmed that the majority of the AG gateways are gone and those left are not accepting new PPPoE sessions. So when you get disconnected that is it.
And that is how I got pushed off the AG gateways.

Standard User Steve1987
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 17-Dec-16 16:00:20
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: s_h] [link to this post]
 
Been getting a lot of disconnects with Plusnet over the last couple of days.

Speed has dropped right down to 0.8Mbps (usually around 38 down / 8 up), just going to reset the modem again.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

After a reset it usually goes back up but will get worse after a few hours.
Standard User pompey_steve
(member) Sat 17-Dec-16 16:38:44
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
I've been seeing this kind of thing on and off for over a week . The answer used to be use an AG gateway but that is no longer an option. Colindale is worse than southbank and thing are worse at peak times.

Regards,
Steve
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 17-Dec-16 19:34:12
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kenneth:
I also have static IP - gateway is psb-bng01."This is located in Southbank Point of Presence."
Same here and tests have been fine for several days now.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14820...

- although that's using the HTML tester which always produces a very jagged result for me.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Oldjim
(knowledge is power) Sun 18-Dec-16 16:00:10
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
You are currently connected to gateway pcn-bng04.

This is located in Colindale Point of Presence.

No problems at all although the TCP delay shows up as 31msec and 24msec (two sequential tests) which is a bit odd as my BQM shows about 15msec which matches my tracert result
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 10:46:38
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Oldjim] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oldjim:
No problems at all although the TCP delay shows up as 31msec and 24msec (two sequential tests) which is a bit odd as my BQM shows about 15msec which matches my tracert result
Yeah, mine shows as 43 on that test but about 16ms on my TBBQM. I assumed it was another artefact of the HTML5 test.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Dec-16 11:07:43
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Difference between TCP and ICMP, hence why we avoid the word ping during speed test

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Mon 19-Dec-16 16:03:50
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
You might want to contact Plusnet as a member of staff has posted this

I've just been talking to someone about this and it doesn't appear to be just Plusnet customers seeing this as reported here: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/4520224-single-t...

at https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Odd-TB...

So "could be read" as Plusnet passing the buck to you Andrew!

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Dec-16 16:26:09
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Someone may be wanting to make it look like passing the buck, but they are not.

Anyone who looks around will be providers like AAISP and Zen who've had issues and found solutions without us needing to change anything. So its not our tester or network at issue, which I'm sure some would love it to be.

May be able to produce some analysis, that will let us look at this more easily i.e. breaking down monthly speed test analysis by different ways, and this may help to identify a common link. Alas that takes time and hypothesis are not always right - so the more people test with http://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest the more info we have to work with.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User longedge
(committed) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:00:37
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So do people with other ISP's have this happening with their connections? I've just had THIS result. I'm currently connected to psb-ir01 Southbank.

Edited by longedge (Mon 19-Dec-16 17:05:01)

Standard User IanBB
(committed) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:13:52
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
There's something wrong somewhere because 6*1.1 doesn't come any where near 36.4 smile
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:18:53
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
As I pointed out earlier, the 1Mbps is a custom protocol on port 4095, which Plusnet traffic management will have at the bottom of the priority list if there is congestion.

The 6x is HTTP on port 80, with higher priority.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User apone
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:20:34
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
Yeah there is definitely something funny happening, you would expect if it was jsut a simple case of congestion the x1 would be 1/6 of the x6 test.

Makes no sense for the traffic management to be granting people who are running lots of concurrent downloads a x30 increase in capacity for their traffic, so I think there is something else that is breaking rather than a simple congestion issue. If it was congestion you would see slow speeds on other single thread tests.

What would be really helpful is if someone who has the problem can put a work laptop on their plusnet line using ehternet preferably, VPN into their office LAN and run the test, that will show Plusnets DPI all the traffic as VPN, so http vs flash and potential for it to be classes as p2p disappears totally and would give some real insight.

If no one has a work PC, then any ipad/iphone user get OperaVPN and connect to germany and run the speedtest from there. (Its all free!), that will do the same but will slow things a small amount as it will go via germany, but will highlight hopefully x1 and x6 are near each other,

The other strange thing is different people have different results and not sure we have any real common failure.

Some people how BNGs and swear thats the fix, but others can stay on the same BNG and then it starts working, then stops later etc. so there is something intermittent that is independent of the BNG you are on and independant of BNG or not BNG connections.
Standard User apone
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:23:34
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
As I pointed out earlier, the 1Mbps is a custom protocol on port 4095, which Plusnet traffic management will have at the bottom of the priority list if there is congestion.

The 6x is HTTP on port 80, with higher priority.

I believe plusnets traffic management is specific to individuals lines, not overall plusnets traffic.amounts.
So even if it was de-prioritised it would be because your own line is full of other traffic and there is only a small amount left.

I am assuming with so many people running tests where they fail are not all because they are maxing out their connections while running a speedtest.
Standard User longedge
(committed) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:44:29
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
Just speculating - is a common factor the Flash version of speedtester? I've only had the odd results using that whereas the 'newer' version hasn't done it as yet although the single threaded result always shows a distinct rising curve at the begiining of the download but does always build to around the same value as the multi threaded result.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Dec-16 17:54:54
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
The traffic management applies across the network, as well as at line level. This was stated by one of the more senior Plusnet reps at the time of this blog post, when many of us were asking that question.

If you think about it, it has to. Otherwise your VOIP or gaming could be swamped at gateways by several other people's 4K streaming. The prioritising of such traffic has to be all the way through the Plusnet system, otherwise operating on the individual line is pointless.

I'm also not suggesting anything is being maxed out at system level. More that whatever protocol the thinkbroadband single stream is on is right at the bottom of the list. The protocol of traffic is one of the main determinants of priority. I expect port numbers are involved as well.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User apone
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:10:09
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
That is over 4 years old!

On https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/about-traffic-pr...

it now talks about "In exceptional circumstances the network could become much busier than expected. This could be due to a major news event leading to a huge amount of online traffic, or in the rare case of network failure, for example. In these situations, we would prioritise traffic on our network to help ensure you get a great service no matter how busy it is."

Now as people are getting the funny x1 speeds even at off peak hours it would strongly suggest that the network isnt contended at that point in the day, otherwise at peak times it would grind to a halt for everyone, which it does not.

Looking at wireshark the DSCP flag for both the x1 and x6 is the same, so doesnt point to DPI being the culprit slowing x1 traffic but not x6 traffic.
Standard User apone
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:11:30
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Someone may be wanting to make it look like passing the buck, but they are not.

Anyone who looks around will be providers like AAISP and Zen who've had issues and found solutions without us needing to change anything. So its not our tester or network at issue, which I'm sure some would love it to be.

May be able to produce some analysis, that will let us look at this more easily i.e. breaking down monthly speed test analysis by different ways, and this may help to identify a common link. Alas that takes time and hypothesis are not always right - so the more people test with http://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest the more info we have to work with.

ANy insight into what they did to fix it? In the Zen foum there is a long thread that looks the same as this so not sure if everyone else has fixed the issue themselves. NOt suggesting its a TBB problem but also not sure everyone else apart from plusnet is working fine on x1
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:37:32
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
It is still valid.

There were also links to many explanations of their prioritisation but their recent Help revamp has either moved or removed them. The other links didn't mention "lines". Just traffic types.

Speed test.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:38:36
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Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
No I've seen it on the HTML version as well. I've removed Flash from all my computers now and in any case my machine kept having issues with it under Chrome.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:43:44
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by apone:
Now as people are getting the funny x1 speeds even at off peak hours it would strongly suggest that the network isnt contended at that point in the day, otherwise at peak times it would grind to a halt for everyone, which it does not.
It's also difficult to use congestion to explain why bouncing a connection can apparently fix the problem then and there. I got rubbish results around 8pm. Bounced the connection and immediately got normal results and have done for a week since.

I suppose it could be route congestion but I don't think it can be attributed to overall network congestion.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:45:41
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14821...

All fine here at the moment as well. I don't anticipate it changing as the evening progresses either.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Mon 19-Dec-16 18:46:21)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Dec-16 18:48:29
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
I agree Andrue.

It is something wrong in the Plusnet network causing it. But (was it you?) as someone has posted, their real-life use isn't impacted. Just the tbb custom protocol speed test.

It points to a mess-up in the new network setup to me, similar to what we had for a long time two or three years ago.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 20:33:40
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It is something wrong in the Plusnet network causing it. But (was it you?) as someone has posted, their real-life use isn't impacted. Just the tbb custom protocol speed test.
I said that last time (2015) but this time around I've just not been affected.

Well that's not quite true. Between Sunday evening and Tuesday evening last week I had continuous low level packet loss and wasn't aware of it:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/1150f...

Then Tuesday night I was swapping a router out and got an horrendous speed test result and awful packet loss:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/f636b...

But bouncing the connection fixed it and seems fine now.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14821...

For all I know it could have been related to swapping routers. Unfortunately as I now use the HTML5 tester there's no record of what test results I got between Sunday and Tuesday. It's very likely I ran at least one test and as I didn't see any need to check my TBBQM it suggests that the packet loss wasn't impacting the TBB tester at that time.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Mon 19-Dec-16 20:35:05)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-16 21:32:22
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It is still valid.

I think its fair to question given there is the "new network" which is unclear what that is. Also majority of plusnet's traffic management was put in place long before FTTC, and when end users were only on ADSL/ADSL2+ lines, so the entire scale of the operation has changed. I personally wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it has been removed thanks to BT investment in trunk links. Always better to increase bandwidth than spend money trying to manage end user traffic. (NTL, now VM learned this the hard way in 1999).

Just traffic types.

Your examples don't explain why other ISPs don't have problems without similar traffic management. How do AAISP handle 2,000 customers streaming UHD from Netflix ? smile

Not seeing an issue here tonight - sync is currently 57,821 / 9,173 kbps.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
You are currently connected to gateway psb-bng03.
This is located in Southbank Point of Presence.


I wonder if there is an issue with certain home routers too?

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 since 2 Jun 14 - Sync as of 7th Aug 16: 55,355/10,291 kbps with G.INP
17 years of UK broadband since 1999 ntl:cable modem trial -Router: Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM

Edited by jchamier (Mon 19-Dec-16 21:36:37)

Standard User apone
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-16 22:36:15
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This seems to be the best to use, as its in their legal section

https://www.plus.net/help/legal/key-fact-indicators-...

8.00pm - 10.00pm each day VOIP and Gaming get priority and that is the only "Traffic prioritisation to optimise network utilisation"

so nothing is blocked, nothing is slowed down, just voip and gaming prioritised in a 2hr window.

So the http vs the specific port is a red herring, that and the dscp flag that shows priorities is the same for both.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Dec-16 23:09:11
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
I think basically we are arguing over nothing.

Your link specifically describes their traffic management and how it works. That means they have the kit to do it in place, with all traffic going through it. That kit basically works by analysing the protocols in use by the traffic. That's what distinguishes VOIP and Gaming from browsing, streaming and so on.

It also explains that at times of high network load it will apply to all traffic on the network.

All I am saying is that in the major changes being made to the network that traffic management has in some way, perhaps only at some gateways, got screwed up. Exactly as it did a few years ago. When the same statement was made about always aiming for capacity for everything.

See this 2012 post by the chap who was at the time in charge of network capacity planning and provision. Note the beginning of the second paragraph.

Nothing has changed in the methodology, just they've dropped the confusing titles and now just have Low, Medium and High.

As for nothing being slowed down, as Kelly says - high priority stuff tends to be low volume. But if you have a fixed amount of bandwidth and you prioritise one kind of traffic, you inevitably slow other types. The only question is - is the slowdown noticeable?

The 1x and 6x problem is not designed in. It is a malfunction plain and simple. Typical solving time with Plusnet, 8-15 months.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 20-Dec-16 10:50:01
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
NOTE: What you posted is correct for the flash version...

On the HTML5 tbbx1 is just 1 http download rather than the six of the multi thread test, same download method

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 20-Dec-16 11:18:22
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Andrew. I shall watch out for that when people say which they were on.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User apone
(newbie) Tue 20-Dec-16 13:50:24
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
As I pointed out earlier, the 1Mbps is a custom protocol on port 4095, which Plusnet traffic management will have at the bottom of the priority list if there is congestion.

The 6x is HTTP on port 80, with higher priority.

This is not true, if you use wireshark you can see what values plusnet use for prioritisation, (the dscp flag in the tcp header) and http and the customer port both are the same value, so there is no prioritisation difference between the two streams of packets.

Not sure what is different though and what in the network could be having such an impact. The only things i can see on wireshark are the 4095 stream is treated by wireshark as individual packets, whereas on http it knows the data is part of a bigger PDU.

That and the TCP window scaling for 4095 is coming in at 128 on a 663 windows size vs a http window of 161 and -1 (unknown) scaling size.
So not sure if for some reason the 4095 stream isnt scaling the TCP window correctly and so cant get the speed up whereas the http one can. I dont know enough low level TCP to figure that out yet so will have to go do some reading on TCP window scaling.

Neither show any packet loss or retransmissions.
The 4095 takes slightly longer for the computer to sendd an ACK message too, but that should be consistent for all tests ano not explain why there is a gap, unless flash itself runs out of resources on a computer and struggles (i know my pc though is not low on resources!)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 20-Dec-16 14:18:08
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
Another correction, if people are seeing our FLASH speed test using port 4095 then I'd be shocked seen as it is configured to normally use port 8095.

ALSO the non-flash version is using TCP Port 80 since single thread is just a single HTTP download, or port 443 is the HTTPS page is loaded.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 20-Dec-16 17:28:28
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: apone] [link to this post]
 
As Andrew has just pointed out, my 4095 was incorrect in my earlier post. It should be 8095.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16208Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Wed 21-Dec-16 08:54:30
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
First speed test this morning - no other traffic (using Task Manager to check Ethernet traffic)
and using the HTML5 test http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14823... got the low constant 2Mbps x1 result.
Pressed the test again button and back to normal.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14823...

So in my testing the very low x1 can be replicated in either the Flash or HTML5 speed testers.

Standard User georgelnx
(member) Fri 30-Dec-16 20:38:31
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
State of play after testing by Bob Pullen on 29 December
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Odd-TB...
TLDR: So, it seems that the slow single threaded issue is limited to L2TP (read: BNG's) and Think Broadband's servers. Granted though, this is only testing using a limited number of sources.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Odd-TB...
I've forwarded the results of our testing to those looking into the problem. I think it would also help for us to reach out to our contacts at AAISP and Zen if it's reported they've fixed the problem (is it?).


Standard User longedge
(committed) Sat 31-Dec-16 09:53:34
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
I get a low tbbx1 result every now and again such as this morning. I always find that if I immediately test again I get a normal result though like this. It's like me, ok once I'm awake and up to speed 8^) .

Standard User jeremy35
(newbie) Sat 31-Dec-16 16:32:54
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
I have the same issue with the single tread at about 1mbps and the 6thread at about 35mps.
I have had a fair bit of instability with speed of between 16mps and 38mps.
Re booting the router sometimes up the speed to the 35mps+ range
Discussions with plusnet inconclusive but my profile has been changed?
A lot of openreach engineers about due they claim to the old bulk aluminum phone cable from the exchange to the old pcp cabinet causing problems..
I assume that there is a copper wire from the new fibre cabinet to the old pcp cabinet In which case there is a copper aluminum connection which in damp conditions could be problematic
I assume that the copper wire from the pcp cabinet to my house has not been touched.
Any thoughts.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 31-Dec-16 17:16:13
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: jeremy35] [link to this post]
 
If issue is aluminium its presence would show up due to higher attenuation figures per km of cable involved.

If the Al is impacting on the DSL it should also show up via wandering noise margins and more errors.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 31-Dec-16 17:55:48
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: jeremy35] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jeremy35:
A lot of openreach engineers about due they claim to the old bulk aluminum phone cable from the exchange to the old pcp cabinet causing problems..
I assume that there is a copper wire from the new fibre cabinet to the old pcp cabinet In which case there is a copper aluminum connection which in damp conditions could be problematic
I assume that the copper wire from the pcp cabinet to my house has not been touched.
On FTTC there is a patch panel installed in the PCP and your phone line from the exchange is connected to that.

That patch panel has two copper pairs per user between it and the FTTC cabinet. One pair carries the phone signal between the two cabinets. The other carries the combined signals between them.

At the FTTC cabinet is a DSLAM where the fibre signal from the headend exchange (which may be different from your phone exchange) is converted to VDSL2 and merged with your phone signal, and vice versa on the return journey. Loads of filtering at the FTTC cabinet.

The second copper pair carries that combined signal back to (or from depending on the direction) the PCP and the copper from your house to there is connected to the return port on the patch panel.

There is far less chance of the aluminium causing trouble than there was before you had FTTC on your circuit.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 01-Jan-17 08:03:53
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
I get a low tbbx1 result every now and again such as this morning. I always find that if I immediately test again I get a normal result though like this. It's like me, ok once I'm awake and up to speed 8^) .
Similar to my experience. 99% of the time the test runs fine at 65Mb/s or thereabouts. But day before yesterday I got a bad result. So I aborted it and immediately re-ran it and got a good result. I'm on the bng03 gateway and have been for a while.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 01-Jan-17 17:28:46
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
from what I understand it has not been removed, but rather plusnet staff have stated they keep capacity high enough so it never needs to kick in on a network level. In other words I agree with RobertoS. Bear in mind they have never guaranteed it will be the case 24/7/365.

The behaviour people have reported here I can not see been anything else than malfunctioning traffic shaping, congestion would have it at higher speeds.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 01-Jan-17 17:34:49
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The behaviour people have reported here I can not see been anything else than malfunctioning traffic shaping, congestion would have it at higher speeds.

I've seen it on older ISPs when network links fail.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 since 2 Jun 14 - Sync as of 7th Aug 16: 55,355/10,291 kbps with G.INP
17 years of UK broadband since 1999 ntl:cable modem trial -Router: Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM
Standard User IanBB
(committed) Sun 01-Jan-17 19:22:21
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
How would traffic shaping (even faulty!) produce results like this?

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

That's with the non-flash test so different protocols aren't in use either.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 01-Jan-17 20:19:15
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
a traffic shaper can get confused depending on the number of streams.

whilst that result is pretty much impossible for bog standard congestion be it cpu or network congestion. As the x6 test is way higher than 600% of the x1 result.

Another possibility is that DPI equipment is malforming the packets so things like rwin negotiation are getting screwed up and preventing the tcp speed ramping up, the this can probably be diagnosed with wireshark.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 01-Jan-17 20:24:23)

Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Jan-17 13:43:24
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The behaviour people have reported here I can not see been anything else than malfunctioning traffic shaping, congestion would have it at higher speeds.

I've seen it on older ISPs when network links fail.
I encountered something similar once when I was with IDNet and got this cryptic response:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29...

But the single threaded results weren't as extreme as we see with Plusnet.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Jan-17 15:23:05
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
But the single threaded results weren't as extreme as we see with Plusnet.

An LNS is a massively complicated device that probably has multiple 10Gigabit connections on the output side, and a few 40Gigabit connections on the other to the ISP core network.

The 10Gigabit connections to the 'tail' provider (e.g. BTwholesale/WBC, TalkTalk etc) has the added complexity of having to terminate a bunch of L2TP or PPP sessions. It also has to manage the traffic flow to these end user sessions so that they are not overloaded, which causes packet loss.

So sending 74mbps to you, 55mbps to me, and 68 to another customer, whilst coping with another few thousand at the same time, requires complicated software, and fast RAM storage.

Hence these things cost a fortune and if they go wrong it causes "fun" for all wink

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 since 2 Jun 14 - Sync as of 7th Aug 16: 55,355/10,291 kbps with G.INP
17 years of UK broadband since 1999 ntl:cable modem trial -Router: Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Jan-17 14:54:51
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Very interesting, thanks.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User georgelnx
(member) Tue 14-Feb-17 19:59:45
Print Post

Re: Single Thread Speed Issues


[re: georgelnx] [link to this post]
 
Latest update
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Odd-TB...
With regards to the poor single thread speed tests, our supplier has identified a potential problem and changes have been made. We would appreciate if you could all test again using TBB and get back to us if you are still experiencing issues. It would be helpful if you can provide a tracert to identify any routing your connections have should you still see problems when testing.


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