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Standard User aks
(committed) Mon 06-Jan-20 09:29:36
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Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[link to this post]
 
I have observed a "slowness" to my general internet experience lately, so ran a speed test. The results are strange to me:

TBB reports 06-01-2020 09:19:18 41.2 Mbps 18.3 Mbpss 20ms latency

OOKLA reports 06.01.2020 9:16 67.54 Mbps 18.72 Mbps 6ms ping

What would explain the differences here, and should I be looking for 'an issue'?

---
Tony
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Jan-20 09:58:42
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: aks] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet might be peering with Oookla or may even have Ookla based test servers within their network and so wouldn't be testing the peering links.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 10:29:15
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: aks] [link to this post]
 
Which tester fits in with your feeling of how the service is performing?

The ookla results have a tendency to ignore some of the dips and troughs in speed, so if your lines are wiggly on the tbb test that probably explains why Ookla test is giving higher figures.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User aks
(committed) Mon 06-Jan-20 10:33:39
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
TBB was showing ups and downs during the test, but never reached >50Mbps.

My router is showing:
Connection Speed 79998 kbps 19999 kbps
Line Attenuation 11.2 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 3.8 db 9.5 db

So I remain puzzled!

---
Tony
Standard User aks
(committed) Mon 06-Jan-20 10:37:19
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The server was GTT.net London, but I generally see fairly consistent results to several servers.

In the past, TBB also reported much higher speeds, e.g:
Sat 23/06/2018 20:46 75.56 Mbps 48.38 Mbps 19.12 Mbps

Albeit from 2018.

---
Tony
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 10:49:45
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: aks] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by aks:
The server was GTT.net London, but I generally see fairly consistent results to several servers.

In that case there’s clearly an issue with the TBB tester. I get similar results as well: nearly every Ookla tester gives me 300 Mbs (single thread) on all 3 of my 330 Mbps lines on BTW tails yet I never get more than 150 Mbps on the TBB tester. I gave up wondering why this is the case a long time ago smile (probably routing issues to the TBB tester)

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 06-Jan-20 11:06:04
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
You may be comparing apples and pears.

The OP specifically said they did these tests because real-use internet seemed to be running slow. That suggests to me that in this case the tbb result is the more likely to be reflecting the problem.

We know that Ookla kicks out low readings. My results from it nearly always show the highest figure seen during the test, confirmed when using my laptop by my “always-on” non-tbb meter.

Basically on mobile broadband, Ookla shows peak, tbb shows what looks real from visual analysis of that other monitor.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:06:01
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ignoring the OPs issues, there's clearly an issue with the TBB tester for those on high speed (>200 Mbps) FTTP services in North Scotland (eg Inverness/Aberdeen) whether on BT Wholesale Tails or Vodafone/Cityfibre.

As I said, on three 330 Mbps FTTP lines - all on different ISPs - i'm only seeing speeds of 150 Mbps on TBB yet Ookla gives around 300 Mbps. Real life file download speeds on all three are 40 MB/s which ties in with Ookla results. One of the ISPs (FluidOne) even spent 2 hrs one evening doing NUT TCP tests on my line and yet they also got a constant 40 MB/s. If the TBB tester results are to be believed, then this means my FTTP lines are performing only 50% of their capability 24/7/365 - even taking into account the speed testing methodology differences between Ookla & TBB, I find this extremely hard to believe.

The point I'm trying to make is that results from the TBB tester shouldn't always be treated as gospel, especially since you have loads of different Ookla servers to compare against and perhaps more importantly, real life file download speeds as well. No way on earth would I be getting a constant 40 MB/s file downloads if the line speed was only 150 Mb/s.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 06-Jan-20 12:19:44)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:36:34
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
You have said all that before. More than once.

I have no problem with your concerns, but you cannot "ignore the OP's issue" when your post is completely irrelevant to it.

You are simply hijacking the thread and providing no help to the OP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:40:36
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: aks] [link to this post]
 
Is your router reporting an error count of any type ?

That sync rate ought to get you better throughput speeds than that I'd have thought.

Mine gets ...

Data rate:
20.00 Mbps / 80.00 Mbps
Maximum data rate:
28663 / 84063
Noise margin:
15.4 dB / 6.4 dB
Line attenuation:
9.3 dB

And just got the following via wifi

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:43:11
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
http://tbb.st/1575925770282583955 Suffolk - oddly high but think someone is testing something
http://tbb.st/1575228253291684655 Northampton
http://tbb.st/1575988787890146655 Birmingham
http://tbb.st/1576400355570292955 Cornwall
http://tbb.st/1577480280625667255 Edinburgh

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:48:35
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Posters latest test http://tbb.st/1578302332575595355

The spiky nature means it is possible the ookla tester which tends to have a higher sampling rate is seeing some higher results and may be reporting those figures.

Dug through the recent Plusnet and http://tbb.st/1578304091143085155 shows what a good test with full sync should look like

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 12:53:23
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Mr S, any TBB FTTP speedtests in the Highlands/North Scotland/Aberdeenshire? I've yet to see a 'perfect' one in these areas.

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 06-Jan-20 14:04:49
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Basically on mobile broadband, Ookla shows peak, tbb shows what looks real from visual analysis of that other monitor.


Ookla doesn’t show the highest speed achieved within the speed test overall, however will manage the connection to try and maximise throughput. It takes the maximum speed achieved right at the end of the test to present back as the achieved figure. This could be lower than the maximum seen within the test itself.

For anyone interested this is how Ookla speed test operates for download:

The client establishes multiple connections with the server over port: 8080. The client requests the server to send an initial chunk of data.
The client calculates the real-time speed of the transfers, then adjusts the chunk size and buffer size based on this calculation to maximize usage of the network connection.
As the chunks are received by the client, the client will request more chunks throughout the duration of the test.
During the first half of the test, the client will establish extra connections to the server if it determines additional threads are required to more accurately measure the download speed.
The test ends once the configured amount of time has been reached.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Jan-20 14:19:23
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Ookla doesn’t show the highest speed achieved within the speed test overall, however will manage the connection to try and maximise throughput.

Easily tested too. Just start an Ookla speedtest and begin another download half way through, the end result will be significantly below peak.

The myth that the Ookla speedtest result indicates peak speed has been propagated for a long time.

Oliver.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 15:28:10
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No need to be rude.

I was replying to your post, where you were implying that the TBB tester cannot give false results.

Also I don't see why I've "hijacked" the thread when the last paragraph is totally relevant to the subject title.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
The point I'm trying to make is that results from the TBB tester shouldn't always be treated as gospel, especially since you have loads of different Ookla servers to compare against and perhaps more importantly, real life file download speeds as well. No way on earth would I be getting a constant 40 MB/s file downloads if the line speed was only 150 Mb/s.


BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 06-Jan-20 15:40:54)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 15:44:47
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Have tried that and I am seeing different behaviour that supports the peak speed theory

Have also seen it on other peoples connections when watching video recorded of the test

The theory that state is that 25% of the slow samples and 15% of the fast samples are rejected and then an average calculated, but that does not seem to be the case all the time.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 15:52:10
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
If I dig through all the ISP probably

Vodafone Gigafast Stirling
http://tbb.st/1575362642381874855

We don't have any different peering for regions, so a BT customer in Edinburgh should not be significantly different from someone further north.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 15:54:25
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I've looked and don't see where he says the tbb tester cannot give false results

All speed testers even hardware based ones are prone to vagaries of the Internet and other issues that may produce odd results. The

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 06-Jan-20 15:55:55
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Your post, whilst doubtless factually valid wrt to your own experience, is not valid as a useful response to the OP. Read the opening post again please, think carefully about it, and decide which of the two tests seems more to reflect the reason for the poster conducting the tests in the first place.

I am not saying either is accurate. But your post did hijack the thread in favour of what appears over a period to be a hobby-horse of yours.

How about you think about what might be causing the OP's real-use problem with throughput? Ignore the tests if you wish.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 16:34:27
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
How about you think about what might be causing the OP's real-use problem with throughput? Ignore the tests if you wish.


Are you saying you can read the OP's mind? Because

"I have observed a "slowness" to my general internet experience lately"

is a very vague statement. So please do share precisely what he/she means by "slowness" because the OP didn't expand on that.

What the OP did make clear was, they wanted to know why the TBB results were lower than Ookla's. So based on my experience and some other posters - such as those with Vodafone & Virgin Media - I suggested the TBB tester doesn't always give out the correct results, for whatever reason.

Does that make sense now?

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 06-Jan-20 16:42:27
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Ignoring the OPs issues, ….


My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-20 16:52:01
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Then perhaps you'd like to expand on the OP's issues wrt "slowness"? You seem to know more than the rest of us...

BT Business FTTP(oD) 330/50 -- 4+2 ONT -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 06-Jan-20 17:02:59
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Have tried that and I am seeing different behaviour that supports the peak speed theory

Have also seen it on other peoples connections when watching video recorded of the test

The theory that state is that 25% of the slow samples and 15% of the fast samples are rejected and then an average calculated, but that does not seem to be the case all the time.


Isn’t the rejecting of upper and lower percentages only relevant to the legacy fall back Http speed test service? According to Ookla documentation most speed tests use TCP which doesn’t have the requirement to download lots of little files and remove the upper 2 and lower 1/4 samples. Instead TCP uses the end speed achieved after trying to force max throughout via the adjustment of chunk and buffer size.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Jan-20 17:13:12
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Which would suggest that by making those changes it should pretty much always report close to max line speed - which is great if you want to know what your line speed is. It doesn't do much to assess the real world performance of the line and so if used by ISPs in diagnosing issues it will generally just look like the line is fine so they close the call.
Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 06-Jan-20 17:30:19
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Which would suggest that by making those changes it should pretty much always report close to max line speed - which is great if you want to know what your line speed is. It doesn't do much to assess the real world performance of the line and so if used by ISPs in diagnosing issues it will generally just look like the line is fine so they close the call.


Yeah, I don’t think it’s ideal for anything other than showing how fast the line is. My point being though that in either test scenario it doesn’t take the peak speed achieved at any point in the test. So if you hit 50mb for a millisecond but the rest of test is around 45, and for tcp ends at 45mb, then 45mb is what you get, not the unrealistic 50mb.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 06-Jan-20 18:20:14
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
speedtest.net is very much testing over HTTP protocol. Seems to use use TCP port 8080

Remember HTTP is built on the TCP protocol

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User beefcakechipz
(regular) Mon 06-Jan-20 19:05:56
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Mine always starts off slow then builds up ive no idea why

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15783370627...

Edited by beefcakechipz (Mon 06-Jan-20 19:06:51)

Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 06-Jan-20 20:40:02
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
speedtest.net is very much testing over HTTP protocol. Seems to use use TCP port 8080

Remember HTTP is built on the TCP protocol


This link explains better than I why they are differentiating the TCP test from their HTTP fallback. In the main anyone with a new browser is being pushed to the TCP test.

https://help.speedtest.net/hc/en-us/articles/3600386...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 07-Jan-20 10:09:10
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
So Google Chrome is not a new browser?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 07-Jan-20 10:09:45
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: beefcakechipz] [link to this post]
 
RWIN scaling can cause that

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-20 14:19:53
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Have tried that and I am seeing different behaviour that supports the peak speed theory

Here is a video I made of a speed test where I began a multi-thread download shortly after the test began: https://streamable.com/gkqhy

This clearly disproves the peak speed result theory, since the end result given is well below the peak speed.

Oliver.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 07-Jan-20 14:53:44
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
A bit more fiddling and the word peak was the wrong one to use, it looks like it is using a very late sample towards the end of the test. By stopping and starting other downloads I can lower or increase the result based on the speed seen in the last sample or two it displays on screen.

Edited by MrSaffron (Tue 07-Jan-20 15:01:37)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-20 15:33:32
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
A bit more fiddling and the word peak was the wrong one to use, it looks like it is using a very late sample towards the end of the test.

I can't see much to support that either.

https://streamable.com/dehtz

In this video I started off with a multi-threaded download which I halted half way through. The result ramps up gradually after that, not suddenly, indicating the speed needle is displaying an average. The end result is well short of my 37 meg line speed.

Oliver.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 07-Jan-20 19:45:24
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
So the needle is showing the mean at any point in time?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-20 23:34:55
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
So the needle is showing the mean at any point in time?

It looks like the mean value to date, in real-time, from the start of the test.

Oliver.
Standard User aks
(committed) Tue 14-Jan-20 11:42:18
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, sorry I started such an active debate laugh!

I reran the test now, and it's back to what I'd expect, if not a bit better than any previous test ever:

My Broadband Speed Test

I don't think *I* changed anything my end... now for the next challenge, contract renewal and trying to get a good deal!

---
Tony
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 14-Jan-20 14:50:51
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: aks] [link to this post]
 
Nothing changed our end either.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Jan-20 17:53:37
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Re: Speedtest result TBB vs OOKLA


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Does a speed drop from 67mbps to 41mbps make a great difference to "general internet use"?

I use a 14mbps connection and have no issues with HD streaming to the TV (over wifi) and 3 other devices connected concurrently.

Information was a bit vague.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
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