Unfortunately we’ve hit a problem

Any idea on when or indeed if Plusnet intend on dealing with above?

My emails are just ignored and my contract with Shell BB is expiring soon, so it looks as if I have to remove Plusnet from my options going on the above response to my new customer enquiries.

Where are you getting that response? I just logged into the customer portal and had a look around. It all looked normal to me.

Just using the links off the TBB offers page, but got the same response off of Moneysavingexpert page.

Ah.. broken links on third party sites.

p.s. - I just tried MoneySavingExpert and followed the link for PlusNet Unlimited Fibre including line rental. It worked for me and showed £22.50 a month.

Edited by longedge (Sat 08-Aug-20 11:02:44)

No, it's not a third party error, but one on Plusnet server.

Can you give me a working url for a 12 month ad so contract with the £50 credit card please?

Plusnet site not showing me any deals today that include a credit card. I don't find it surprising therefore that any earlier links no longer work. Maybe tomorrow ...

They didn't work, when they did though.

I thought the TBB 18 month deal included a credit card? Is there a link to report this as invalid?

Edit - https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/plusnet/packages...

Edited by hk11 (Sat 08-Aug-20 15:39:30)

Report what as invalid?

Following the links we have in the packages still seeing the reward cards appear.

We are landing you on the right page for the affiliate links for new customers.

I've been with PlusNet for years always on a 12 month contract although it does mean having to ring the customer retention team each year to negotiate anything other than an 18 month period. I'll be renewing in a few weeks and I will be on a 12 month contract if I remain with them

The offer as previous poster says there are no current offers with a card.

Yes, I thought there was a card. So previous poster was wrong?

So it is definitely Plusnet website that has the problem and not, as previous poster suggested the redirect from yourselves?

I just swap to an another provider when the contract is up for renewal as I refuse to spend my life hanging on the phone listening to musac!

I take it back. Using the TBB link I have no problem connecting to the Plusnet site and seeing their ADSL offer ~ £17.99 complete with pre-paid £50 credit card. This is using both Firefox and Chrome. Perhaps something at your end is corrupting the links.

It is possible, but odd that I don't recall any problems in the past and have been a Plusnet customer at least three times before.

Perhaps if you gave me a url, I could run a trace route. Odd that Plusnet should ignore my reports as well.

Edit. For some strange reason I can't see a previous post where you suggested that the page no longer exists. Surely in that case I would get a 404 error?

Edited by hk11 (Sat 08-Aug-20 17:46:23)

Plusnet ADSL2+ affiliate link https://bit.ly/39ZvlMX shorted by us from the rather massive link http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinmid=2973&awinaffi...

Keyword affiliate offer, the standard deals from going direct to the dot com can and are often different

You need to try another device or another browser.
All the Plusnet links in the TBB offers page work for me.

Just tried the 2 links Andrew has posted sand they both work.

They take me to an offer for £17.99/month, £50 card, 18 month contract.

Thanks.

First url gives the error in the subject line, but second url just doesn't finish loading.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Thanks.

First url gives the error in the subject line, but second url just doesn't finish loading.

Both links work fine for me.

Paul

It could be that Plusnet cookies in your browser are being detected so you are blocked from the page.

https://www.plus.net/deals/unlimited/?affiliate=awin...

Edit: (Which just worked for me).

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Aug-20 00:51:47)

Doesn't html code pick up browser and/or device anymore? Easy enough to report, I would have thought? TBB doesn't seem to have a problem.

Very odd.

You would think the error would say that, if it were the case.

Your url just gives me the error as per subject line.

Have you an alternative PC, laptop, tablet or phone that you could try using? Have you rebooted/restarted the machine giving you problems?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Report what as invalid?

Following the links we have in the packages still seeing the reward cards appear.

We are landing you on the right page for the affiliate links for new customers.

yep, working fine here.

In reply to a post by longedge:

I've been with PlusNet for years always on a 12 month contract although it does mean having to ring the customer retention team each year to negotiate anything other than an 18 month period. I'll be renewing in a few weeks and I will be on a 12 month contract if I remain with them

If you are staying with them then why do you keep to a 12-month contract or is it so you can get a better deal every 12 months?

I have just renewed for an 18-month contract, I am not a fan of long contracts, but for £23 a month it is good and to be honest apart from an Open reach problem, I had, Plusnet have been pretty good.
I doubt anything is going to come along that is better in 18 months.

In reply to a post by hk11:

The offer as previous poster says there are no current offers with a card.

Yes, I thought there was a card. So previous poster was wrong?

So it is definitely Plusnet website that has the problem and not, as previous poster suggested the redirect from yourselves?

There is a £50 reward card offer, I presume it is a pre-paid card.

Has been the case when I have previously applied, but I 'spose it might have changed.

Just because site A works does not imply site B will work.

Tried using anything other than your iiPad to use the links?

No, my PCs are so old they refuse to even download browser updates.

You would have thought a Company the size of Plusnet could issue more meaningful error messages.

TBB seems to have no problem with my iPad. The only other sites have found that don't like it are Gumtree parts and of Moneysavingexpert. I assume these companies just don't want new/old custom.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

If you are staying with them then why do you keep to a 12-month (snip)

Simply because I pay my line rental in advance to save a few quid (a much smaller saving than it used to be) and that's 12 monthly. It keeps the two contracts aligned.

In reply to a post by hk11:

TBB seems to have no problem with my iPad. The only other sites have found that don't like it are Gumtree parts and of Moneysavingexpert

I'm sure the problem is with your device.

It sounds like a browser security issue I had. I maintain a linux laptop for my dad, it's customised so as to be as simple as possible, and use as little data as possible, and that meant minimal updates done manually by me. It did get to a point once that several sites suddenly stopped loading up correctly, including Gumtree - the problem was that the Firefox browser had just gotten too far out of date.

The fact that some sites work is irrelevant, not all websites make the same demands on a browser.


Are you sure that the ipad, and relevant browsers, are completely up to date?

Also, this might sound a bit odd, but are you sure that the clock and date on the ipad is set correctly, or set to auto-update?

Edited by sparky_paul (Sun 09-Aug-20 10:19:25)

There can be SSL/TLS certificate issues with older devices e.g. if this is an old iPad not running latest iOS (and maybe not upgradeable to latest) you may have issues with things that rely on the encryption e.g. sales sites

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Plusnet ADSL2+ affiliate link https://bit.ly/39ZvlMX shorted by us from the rather massive link http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinmid=2973&awinaffi...

Keyword affiliate offer, the standard deals from going direct to the dot com can and are often different

With the latest posts in the two threads by yourself Andrew, I've just noticed that your full link here is http. On clicking it, Plusnet (or awin1.com ?) have redirected to https. I think that supports your suggestion re an SSL/TLS problem at the user end.

Yes, I would go with that too.

I had to update the OS to the latest version too, as well as the latest browser, to get everything to work together properly.

Edited by sparky_paul (Sun 09-Aug-20 13:57:41)

In reply to a post by hk11:

TBB seems to have no problem with my iPad. The only other sites have found that don't like it are Gumtree parts and of Moneysavingexpert. I assume these companies just don't want new/old custom.

Do you have any add-ons for Safari, e.g. an ad blocker or similar, on your iPad? Most of these won't hurt, but SOME might get upset with the HTTP to HTTPS switch in the links.

Safari itself is now very very picky about security (as it should be), and a Mac user with Safari and another browser could confirm as this is the same on Mac, iPad, iPhone. On a desktop the MS Edge, and Firefox browsers are also picky, Chrome is (at the moment) the most relaxed.

Its about privacy protection - Chrome (being Google) is least worried, as they want to sell you advertising.

Sounds logical.

The only problem then is wouldn't/shouldn't I get a out-of-date browser error?

Date and time is set to automatic and seems to be fine.

Interesting.

Wouldn't I then get SSL/TSL errors?

In reply to a post by hk11:

Sounds logical.

The only problem then is wouldn't/shouldn't I get a out-of-date browser error?

Date and time is set to automatic and seems to be fine.

Apple no longer update iOS on all iPads. Which model have you got, and what version of iOS? What does it say if you if you try a manual software update?

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Aug-20 19:58:47)

In reply to a post by hk11:

Wouldn't I then get SSL/TSL errors?

Yes you would. The suggestions you are being given have missed the fact that you are using an iPad.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Apple no longer update iOS on all iPads. Which model have you got, and what version of iOS? What does it say if you if you try a manual software update?

The OP has posted they are on 13.6 of iPadOS which as I posted before is the latest, released in July 2020.

The suggestions on this thread, and others, is not taking into account which browser (Safari, Chrome, Firefox etc) is being used, or what add on filters are being used (e.g. in Safari).

OR that there is a mistake, pointed out elsewhere, in the referral links switching from HTTPS to HTTP and back to HTTPS. Modern browsers will protect end user privacy and that switching will break context and transfer.

My own iPad Pro 2018 (iPadOS 13.6) blocks the link between TBB and Plus.Net because I have a content blocker active in Safari, mine however tells me "blocked by content blocker".

Firefox on my home PC does not have this problem, maybe because I have allow listed TBB, but I don't know the affiliate partner.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 09-Aug-20 21:11:55)

Well I don't think its a SSL/TLS issue, they are using HTTPS hence the padlock icon in the image they posted.
In that image you can also see the CODID-19 Update Banner on the plusnet page at the top.
Also plusnet are using TLS1.2 with old weak Cipher Suites probably to support as many Operating Systems and Browsers as possible.

So at that point SSL/TLS handshaking has all passed.

I think its a browser issue to do with plugins / addons causing an issue.

Paul

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Apple no longer update iOS on all iPads. Which model have you got, and what version of iOS? What does it say if you if you try a manual software update?

The OP has posted they are on 13.6 of iPadOS which as I posted before is the latest, released in July 2020.

Not that I can see in either of the two threads, (one needs locking as it is getting very difficult to track both).

On iPad's and iPhones it doesn't matter what browser you use they all have to use the Safari render engine.
So if you use a different browser it is just a skinned version of safari.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not that I can see in either of the two threads, (one needs locking as it is getting very difficult to track both).

Indeed.
It was actually you who posted what version of iPad iOS they were on.

Your confirmation that the latest version of iOS on the iPad works with the links pretty much confirms it's an issue on the OP's end.

I still say it's a Plusnet issue, as suggested by their error message as links to John Lewis Broadband (for example) supplied by/under contract with Plusnet, work fine.

No way of proving and as Plusnet still haven't got back to me they obviously don't care.

Edited by hk11 (Thu 13-Aug-20 08:08:22)

You've been asked numerous times but failed as yet to answer. What device are you using to connect to the internet (Mr Saffron said an iPad) and what version is the OS?

Your difficulties in connecting to the Plusnet website are almost certainly much closer to home and involve the device you are using otherwise others would be seeing similar problems.

I've just tried the short link posted by Mr S on both iPhone X and iPad on iOS 13.6 and link worked fine on both.

Indications are its an old iPad using IOS 9

Thank you Andrew.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Indications are its an old iPad using IOS 9

Interestingly in iOS 13, Apple no longer shows iPad in the User Agent, the browser shows as a Mac.

Apparently my lack of response to this and other posts I can't see for some reason, is causing some folk on here much stress?

I usually answer posts/questions, but in this case I felt the thread was drifting too far from my original post/question. But just to keep certain people happy. :-

It's an old piece of hardware with the most up-to-date OS that Apple provide. Quite how the average user would know or care about this escapes me. It is obviously *my* fault that Plusnet can't provide a more helpful error message. Presumably it is also my fault they can't sort out their new billing system or provide basic checks on coding so their order tracking works as well?

In reply to a post by hk11:

Apparently my lack of response to this and other posts I can't see for some reason, is causing some folk on here much stress?

I usually answer posts/questions, but in this case I felt the thread was drifting too far from my original post/question. But just to keep certain people happy. :-

It's an old piece of hardware with the most up-to-date OS that Apple provide. Quite how the average user would know or care about this escapes me. It is obviously *my* fault that Plusnet can't provide a more helpful error message. Presumably it is also my fault they can't sort out their new billing system or provide basic checks on coding so their order tracking works as well?

The issue you are having is that the website uses a piece of code not supported by the browser on your device.
Your device is an older one and therefore no longer receives updates from the manufacturer.
If you want to blame anyone you should blame Apple for not supporting your device.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not that I can see in either of the two threads, (one needs locking as it is getting very difficult to track both).

Indeed.
It was actually you who posted what version of iPad iOS they were on.

Your confirmation that the latest version of iOS on the iPad works with the links pretty much confirms it's an issue on the OP's end.

Not me. That was jchamier (and now yourself) mis-reading my post that he quoted . I posted that the link worked on my (latest) version of iOS .

That was what prompted Andrew to suggested iOS 9 was being used.

Nobody is getting stressed just exasperated at your lack of answers. Sometimes help is given when all avenues are explored.

" most up-to-date OS that Apple provide"

Does this actually mean the latest iOS that Apple distribute or the latest that your device will update to?

What actual version is on your device?

From my access.log, which is what Plusnet would see :-

"Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 9_3_5 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/601.1.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/9.0 Mobile/13G36 Safari/601.1"

My point that you are missing is that most would have no idea or probably not care what version iOS they were running. Plusnet would have this information and should code to pop up the correct error rather than something that is meaningless.

If you're running an older iPhone or iPad that's stuck on iOS 9, then you need to plan some sort of escape strategy following this week's leak of Apple's iBoot source code to GitHub.

That was in 2018.

You may be able to update it.

Thanks for the heads up.

I run TWO now!

Run two? Two whats?

Two Apple devices, one with iOS 9 and one with iOS 12?

You've got it, but I think they are both on nine.

In reply to a post by hk11:

From my access.log, which is what Plusnet would see :-

"Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 9_3_5 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/601.1.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/9.0 Mobile/13G36 Safari/601.1"

My point that you are missing is that most would have no idea or probably not care what version iOS they were running. Plusnet would have this information and should code to pop up the correct error rather than something that is meaningless.

That's not how websites work, most websites only have one/two codebases (desktop/mobile) so it doesn't matter that it knows what browser you have.
It will serve you the code it has and the error message is their generic.
It would take more time than its worth to code a website to diagnose and to work out the exact error

Quite simple as far as I can see. :-

Does OS = supported OS if not error "we do not support your OS".

Otherwise what is the point of the browser "indentifying" it's self?

In reply to a post by hk11:

Quite simple as far as I can see. :-

Does OS = supported OS if not error "we do not support your OS".

Otherwise what is the point of the browser "indentifying" it's self?

But they'd only know that if they tested their website on every version of every browser. Hardly anyone uses iOS9 anymore so it seems reasonable they wouldn't test it.

There was a link on here suggesting use age was quite high. I'll have a scroll back for it for you.

Edit: around 7% or 70 million, according to the link.

Edited by hk11 (Fri 28-Aug-20 12:27:43)

In reply to a post by hk11:

There was a link on here suggesting use age was quite high. I'll have a scroll back for it for you.

Edit: around 7% or 70 million, according to the link.

That would be for the whole world not just the UK, so in the UK it would be well under 1% of devices on IOS9

Yes, I understand that. then there would be only a small percentage of that 1%. Anyone know what Plusnet's market share is? I still say there is no excuse for sloppy coding though, but maybe I expect too much?

In reply to a post by hk11:

Yes, I understand that. then there would be only a small percentage of that 1%. Anyone know what Plusnet's market share is? I still say there is no excuse for sloppy coding though, but maybe I expect too much?

The fact everyone else is able to use the website suggests it's not Plusnets site coding but rather your old device that is to blame.

Plusnet will make their site to meet current security standards.
They stop making their website compatible with older browsers and older OS's.

You can continue to feel like it's Plusnet's poor coding but the general consensus is your old device is at fault.

That was the consensus before you told the thread what OS you were running.
It was no surprise when you eventually conceded you were on iOS9.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 28-Aug-20 14:32:03)

In reply to a post by hk11:

Yes, I understand that. then there would be only a small percentage of that 1%. Anyone know what Plusnet's market share is? I still say there is no excuse for sloppy coding though, but maybe I expect too much?

So you're saying they should test the website so it will work on at most 20 peoples devices who have IOS 9 and want plusnet broadband

I am saying they have a history of bad coding. This is just one example. Others are their billing system that I understand to still be giving problems over two years after being modified and my other thread (which I don't think is iOS9 specific) regarding contract start date.

Just because that's how you would like things to work it doesn't happen in reality.

My Android phone is 5 years old (ancient it tech terms) and runs Android 6.?. Some apps will not work with it but don't give a reason.

Spend some money and upgrade to devices that support newer iOS versions and have no issues or continue to use unsupported software but you need to stop complaining about something that is not of the ISP's making.

Send me the money and I will spend it for you.

Edited by hk11 (Sat 29-Aug-20 11:18:47)

I appreciate that, just grates when company's don't respond to communications!

In reply to a post by hk11:

I am saying they have a history of bad coding. This is just one example. Others are their billing system that I understand to still be giving problems over two years after being modified and my other thread (which I don't think is iOS9 specific) regarding contract start date.

I said elsewhere that the billing problems MAY only be a handful of the customer base, as I know 4 Plusnet customers whom have not had any billing problems, but also they wouldn't post on an internet forum.

If your device is limited to iOS 9 then if its an iPad 3, it is limited to iOS 9.3.6, and that device was last sold in 2012. Anything newer than an iPad 3, can run iOS 10, or iOS 12. Also even the iPad 3 on iOS 9 can run an alternative browser, worth a try, if Safari is causing the issues. That old a device won't be 64bit, and so won't be able to run advert or tracking blockers, which could stop scripts running.

Also if you are running iOS 9.3.5, then you really should have updated to 9.3.6:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208010#936

That said, I am guessing based on the User Agent string you posted. Those that can upgrade to iOS 13 (iPad Air 2 and later) don't show as an iPad in that string, they show as a Mac.

I am assuming you have an original iPad Mini, which was popular due to the price, but must now be feeling slower than a cheap laptop. Unfortunately it had a very limited CPU and limited RAM, and was time limited on the day of sale.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 30-Aug-20 16:13:13)

I run Chrome on one and Dolphin on the other as "backup" browsers, but as someone said before these would just be "skins" on Safari as I think Apple force these on users, but thanks for the suggestion.

In reply to a post by hk11:

I run Chrome on one and Dolphin on the other as "backup" browsers, but as someone said before these would just be "skins" on Safari as I think Apple force these on users, but thanks for the suggestion.

I thought it changed in later iOS, but can't find the info.

Edited by jchamier (Mon 31-Aug-20 10:09:39)

I can understand that old hardware may not handle new software, but you're right about PN billing problems. I could not view my bills in Firefox after version 76 or thereabouts, then it worked for a version or two, then it stopped with the last and the current version 80. Only way to view/print my bills is in MS Edge.

It does seem a pain trying to keep up with browser versions. Why they can't test before release is beyond me, but I suppose things move so fast these days.

I still think companies should have a basic version of their site, but maybe not quite as basic as say Lynx on Linux.

tiny:~# lynx www.plus.net

Looking up www.plus.net first
Looking up www.plus.net
Making HTTP connection to www.plus.net
Sending HTTP request.
HTTP request sent; waiting for response.
HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Allowing this cookie.
Data transfer complete
HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Using https://www.plus.net/
Looking up www.plus.net
Making HTTPS connection to www.plus.net
Retrying connection without TLS.
Looking up www.plus.net
Making HTTPS connection to www.plus.net
Alert!: Unable to make secure connection to remote host.

lynx: Can't access startfile http://www.plus.net/
tiny:~#

Edited by hk11 (Mon 31-Aug-20 11:38:21)

In reply to a post by hk11:

I still think companies should have a basic version of their site, but maybe not quite as basic as say Lynx on Linux.

Seems like your lynx is broken as well: https://imgur.com/a/EI9qlm6

Works fine on other sites e.g. :-

28)
#alternate alternate

BBC Homepage
* Skip to content
* Accessibility Help

* BBC Account
* Notifications
* Home
* News
* Sport
* Weather
* iPlayer

MenuMore
Search
-- press space for next page --
Arrow keys: Up and Down to move. Right to follow a link; Left to go back.
H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o M)ain screen Q)uit /=search [delete]=history list

You probably need to update your root SSL/TLS certificates.

Quite possibly.

It's not something I use too often.

I have to admit that I find it odd that PlusNet, or is it Apple, don't support a browser that is only four years old (TLS/SSL issues aside). Microsoft (and PlusNet) support Internet Explorer v11 which was released in October 2013 although in this case Microsoft's last and final patch was released in January 2020

In reply to a post by MCM:

Microsoft (and PlusNet) support Internet Explorer v11 which was released in October 2013 although in this case Microsoft's last and final patch was released in January 2020

Internet Explorer 11 received a patch just this month: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4571687/cum...

Thanks Oliver,

I hadn't thought to check whether there was a more recent update. It's a pity that Apple seemingly leave their users somewhat stranded.

Edit. I note though that the August update is for server 2012 and Win 8 embedded. I've just checked on an old Win 7 Pro SP1 system and find that is is offered Edge which is a bit of a surprise.

Edited by MCM (Mon 31-Aug-20 16:45:03)

In reply to a post by MCM:

Edit. I note though that the August update is for server 2012 and Win 8 embedded.

The update mentions multiple OS's but not Windows 10. It is applied to Win10 though, as mentioned in the KB4566782 release notes: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4566782

OT
I must apologise if I appear as being pedantic. KB4566782 makes reference to Win 10 in the context of the issuing of non-security releases rather than for the IE11 patch. I've just checked on a Win 10 machine running build 2004 and it doesn't appear to have been offered any update for IE. This could be because of Edge - I simply don't know as I never use Edge and very rarely IE and when I do on a box running Win 7. What I did not realise until just now is that IE11 (v11.00.1904.1 6 Dec 2019) won't even open on that particular box. This might be peculiar to that box or a "feature" of 2004. The same is true for two laptops running Win 10 Pro x64 2004.

In reply to a post by MCM:

KB4566782 makes reference to Win 10 in the context of the issuing of non-security releases rather than for the IE11 patch.

Not as far as I can see.

In reference to support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4566782/windows-10-update-kb4566782:

Security updates to the Microsoft Scripting Engine, Internet Explorer, Windows Graphics, Microsoft Graphics Component, Windows Kernel, Windows Input and Composition, Windows Media, Windows Shell, the Windows Wallet Service, Microsoft Edge Legacy, Windows Cloud Infrastructure, Windows Authentication, the Windows AI Platform, Windows Fundamentals, Windows Storage and Filesystems, Windows Update Stack, Windows File Server and Clustering, Windows Hybrid Storage Services, Windows App Platform and Frameworks, Microsoft JET Database Engine, and Windows SQL components.

"I've just checked on an old Win 7 Pro SP1 system and find that is is offered Edge which is a bit of a surprise."

Made my W7 laptop crash a few times so was removed.

2nd hand is a cheap way to go.

Tablets and smartphones run on a faster cycle that desktop/laptop and therefore tend to be supported for shorter time - some Android handsets are much shorter support than you get from Apple.

Also, Microsoft are dropping support for IE11 through their Teams and Office 365 services so they won't even be supporting it on some of their core web services in the near future. So, they support the OS for updates but not for their own web services.

In reply to a post by hk11:

lynx: Can't access startfile http://www.plus.net/

What type of box are you running Lynx on that can't manage TLS ?

You do know that TLS 1.0 and 1.1 are obsolete, and many older browsers can no longer work? The original IE on WinXP for example, and older versions of Firefox. The IT industry is a train that does not stop moving forwards.

The problem with connecting everyone on the internet is that we now have to keep patching against the bad guys exploiting us. In the old days we had PCs that were not connected to each other, and you ran the same software until the HDD failed

In reply to a post by MCM:

It's a pity that Apple seemingly leave their users somewhat stranded.

The support cycle of the original iPad Mini (3 years) was rather short compared to other devices, because the hardware inside governed the cycle, the iPad 2 managed 5 years. Compared to desktop and laptop PCs, this is a very low amount of life, primarily because of RAM limitations. Similar to some Android models (with locked bootloaders) you unfortunately cannot install a third party OS on the Apple hardware.

Original mini was launched in Oct 2012, and in Oct 2013 only the 16GB was on sale, which stopped in 2015. So the device had a 3 year on sale life. The Mini used the A5 SoC with 512MB of RAM. It launched with iOS 6.0.1 and was updated to iOS 9.3.5 (WiFi) and 9.3.6 (Cellular). The A5 SoC was also used by the iPad, also with 512 MB RAM. The A5 SoC stopped being supported with iOS 9.3.5 and so the iPad 2, and the original iPad Mini (which was the same machine in a smaller size) were both discontinued. The iPad 2 was launched in 2011, and the last update was in 2016, so it had 5 years life.

The Mac used to be more open, but now you are likely to only get 5 years life. Contrast with a laptop running Windows (which could run Win10) or Linux, which easily do 9 or 10 years life if you don't mind them slowing down.

I've just checked on an old Win 7 Pro SP1 system and find that is is offered Edge which is a bit of a surprise.

The majority of the development work was complete when Win7 was end of life'd, so they completed the testing cycle and released.

_{edit - fix typo!}

Edited by jchamier (Tue 01-Sep-20 19:58:10)

You mean I can expect my 20MB HDD to fail? LOL!

I'd better back it up to my 5.25 FDD

So your saying that iPad Mini had 4 OS versions - the original plus 3 updates. They would have also continued security updates for 9 after 10 was released for a time. Compared to many Android devices that may get no major OS updates then that is pretty good. The best on Android is normally 3 major updates and so matches the iPad. It is the name of the games for smartphone and tablets - Apple usually are a little better than Android for supporting older tablet/smartphone hardware (sometimes shortened when they release a "budget" devices using a non-current chip).

If you buy a £400 laptop then chances are it won't last 10 years of "major" Windows OS releases. If you spend a £1000+ then it is more likely to be supported longer.

In reply to a post by hk11:

You mean I can expect my 20MB HDD to fail? LOL!
I'd better back it up to my 5.25 FDD

I had a 5.25 FDD sitting on my book shelf for years, but it went in 2018. I have a lot of 3.5" discs around, but I do actually have a working 3.5" USB FDD!

My first HDD was 20MB.... in the early 90s.....

quote=4657175]So your saying that iPad Mini had 4 OS versions - the original plus 3 updates. They would have also continued security updates for 9 after 10 was released for a time. Compared to many Android devices that may get no major OS updates then that is pretty good. The best on Android is normally 3 major updates and so matches the iPad. It is the name of the games for smartphone and tablets - Apple usually are a little better than Android for supporting older tablet/smartphone hardware (sometimes shortened when they release a "budget" devices using a non-current chip). That "continued updates" wasn't as good as it is today with 12 getting updates, however the 9.x.x releases were mostly security.

If you buy a £400 laptop then chances are it won't last 10 years of "major" Windows OS releases. If you spend a £1000+ then it is more likely to be supported longer.

I've seen the latter. Apple's 2012 laptops are no longer supported for Big Sur the macOS this year. However I know of a 2011 laptop with Core i3 CPU that is running Win 10 2004, and likely will get next years update. Yes it has had an SSD replacing the HDD in the last 9 years