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Standard User TMCR
(member) Sun 24-Nov-13 22:37:14
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: warweezil] [link to this post]
 
I think it's £2.25 on Virgin to have caller ID active. The only calls I seemed to get were from PPI companies or scammers. I've put some Panasonic DECT phones on that line, with call barring and answering machine - to screen incoming calls, just in case the hospital or some other official place calls. The ringer is turned off. Saves a lot of hassle.

Family will text and we'll call them from our mobiles or they will call my VOIP number, which has caller ID as standard, not an extra.

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Virgin Cable (L30)
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 05-Dec-13 12:17:52
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: warweezil] [link to this post]
 
I aactually think BT make revenue of these companies.

Of all the times I have had a VM line vs BT line, I get far more dodgy calls on the BT lines.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - BQM
Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-13 20:06:39
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zom22:
I believe all the exchanges are gradually being updated to also display international CLI's - rather than merely 'international'
So this is a new facility which is going to have to be paid for by someone - the customers who want it.


It's not an upgrade - full caller ID has always been present in its 'as sent' form. This is just BT relaxing the way they do things. The argument was BT couldn't validate international CLI therefor they didn't pass it to the end user. But they have been under a lot of pressure and have finally decided to allow international CLI to be passed as received.

A bit like dialing 141 before the destination number - it simply asks the destination switch to not display the as sent caller ID - if you look at the SS7 / signalling layer on the PSTN you will have the CLI


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Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-13 20:12:50
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: warweezil] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by warweezil:
BT told me they cannot drop calls with spoofed CLI as it would breach international agreements, despite the fact that this action is taken to circumvent UK and EU laws. I am certain that BT could allow for that by amending thier T&C to prohibit the spoofing of CLI on thier network. Nor will they allow call barring from international numbers.


They can't drop calls - they must present them as-received, it is however already against the rules to send 'invalid' or otherwise 'misleading or false' caller ID. I couldn't quote you where from though if you look through SIN Net you will find something I suspect.

You should also note that unlike the days of system Y you can't generally spoof your CLIP unless you have a VOIP gateway, or an SS7 signaling connection into the PSTN.

Most CLIP 'abuse' is lazy switch administrators - I know several companies who still send 0171, however there is some blatant abuse by rouge tele-sales companies who don't want to be tracked by end users. All the networks have no choice but to pass these calls as-received. They could for example prefix/suffix any suspicious CLI - but they wont.

Edited by IamQ (Wed 11-Dec-13 20:14:43)

Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Wed 11-Dec-13 20:20:01
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: lenham343] [link to this post]
 
It's not... Its a con and a way for BT to extort more money out of potentially vulnerable service users.

Caller ID is an integral part of the network which costs *NOTHING* to operate.

Please also note that BT are also going to charge for the 1571 answerphone service. Now this is a service I hate with a vengeance for example - if you call someone from a mobile who has 1571 answer - you get charged a termination fee by your operator if they are busy & on the phone. You have no choice to decline the call completion, and no out of band indication that the called party is busy and your going to be forced to the answer service.

Normal line with no 1571 service = Engaged / CC17 = busy signal & £0 cost to caller.
1571 Answer enabled = no busy signal/CC17 & termination cost to user + minimum billing interval.

Edited by IamQ (Wed 11-Dec-13 20:20:32)

Standard User warweezil
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Dec-13 19:01:06
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
OK lets just agree that BT are happy to rip off customers who would like to protect their privacy at home from spammers and scammers, but wont take any real steps stop rogue businesses riding roughshod over the privacy in communications directives.

I just had one of the scammers on the phone - CLI showed "international" - conducting a "survey" about life insurance. If I were able to refuse overseas calls at exchange level - which should be my right on an ex-directory and TPS registered number (in the same way that my number is withheld when I dial out) then MY rights would be protected not to interrupted/disturbed by calls which are to all intents and purposes illegal.

Where calls are made in breach of privacy regulations - then it is high time that the public had the right to refuse to accept certain categories of calls where they breach protections that are supposed to stop such calls, (and BT the duty to provide whatever technical measures possible). I'm dropping CLI shortly, and have never used 1571, Cold callers can expect a VERY unwelcome response from me. Better yet, remove the small cost (?) of maintaining the voice side and sell just a bare DSL line, Given the instability of my less than 3km line over the years whatever they charge us for doesn't seem to be "pair maintenance"

Any ISP that thinks that selling my click traffic is acceptable is MisinPHORMed
VIVACITI Surfwise LLU - Finally free of the BTw crawl, but not of BT's speculative invoicing (AKA SFI charges)
SWPM a BT Group investment "Not Spot"

My BQM
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Tue 17-Dec-13 20:25:49
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
IamQ

I believe that it is an upgrade to the access equipment and software, whilst the full CLI is already present you only get sent the first (15?) characters including spaces, a full international CLI could be up to 22 digits. This will span 2 lines of the display unit, at present we only see one line.

As this is a software upgrade it is likely to cost tems of millions of pounds for each type of switch, I wonder how many types BT has? I suspect that the switches haven't had updated software for years as BT were going to replace them with 21C at some point and updating the software on old code ( circa 1990 ) could cost a lot if only to train up people to do it.

You also have to have the equipment to send the signals to the line on each call, the more people that have the facility the more this will cost. (On a mobile you have different signalling to the phone that can carry the CLI within it.) The info comes down as a hidden frequency before the first ring ( on my wired phone you can hear it 'click' before it rings) so that it doesn't interfere with the ringing.

A google search give SIN 227 which is far too technical for me to understand it all

Thus this is not free

Personally I prefer the "International" we get today, it enables me to list and replace the receiver without much thought.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 18-Dec-13 14:15:18
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: warweezil] [link to this post]
 
Better yet, remove the small cost (?) of maintaining the voice side and sell just a bare DSL line, Given the instability of my less than 3km line over the years whatever they charge us for doesn't seem to be "pair maintenance"

Unplug your phone. Sorted.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Kam
(learned) Wed 18-Dec-13 15:37:55
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: warweezil] [link to this post]
 
I donít understand why any significant work should be needed to re-enable the display of International CLI. I used to get International Numbers displayed in full on my BT CD1500 caller id display box years ago, until at some point this information was suppressed. This may have been when switching phone suppliers, but ultimately they all pass through BT Openreach.
As for the profit marginÖ it must be huge. I canít believe it costs more than the tiniest fraction of a penny to pass on this information which the service provider is receiving anyway.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 19-Dec-13 09:22:06
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Re: Profit margin on Caller Display?


[re: Kam] [link to this post]
 
so interestingly BT systems used to reveal international CLI?

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - BQM
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