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Standard User charlestown
(regular) Thu 08-Apr-21 19:57:44
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How unsafe is an old computer online?


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I have an aged mid 2010 Mac Pro as a backup computer that is still quite usable, however it is limited to Mojave without applying unofficial patches, which I do not wish to do. Last year I picked up a new Mac mini as my main machine, largely because I knew Apple would stop supporting Mojave with security updates later this year and my rough plan was to take the Mac Pro offline in a couple of months, so it is reserved for tasks like Photoshop.

I am in the process of changing ISP and will require a new router, so I have been looking around and reading up on different options. It seems some routers are more secure than others, so at a certain point I wondered how much of the security is down to the router and how much is down to the OS?

Just to be clear I am not trying to ignore potential security risks, far from it. I just want to understand the process a little better. In theory the Mac Pro should still be safe connecting to my server via FTP and I just need to avoid general usage online.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Apr-21 22:06:13
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
When you say some routers are more secure than others, what do you mean by that exactly?

For the average home user, the router does not really play any major part in security. They all provide basic "features" which give the effect of security. Simply using different brands of routers isn't going to really change how secure you are other than the reasonably rare occasions where the routers themselves are found to have security issues, even then normally only caused by when the user has turned on administration from the outside world.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Apr-21 22:08:04
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by charlestown:
Just to be clear I am not trying to ignore potential security risks, far from it. I just want to understand the process a little better. In theory the Mac Pro should still be safe connecting to my server via FTP and I just need to avoid general usage online.

Yes most likely but bare in mind if your FTP server is encrypted (which it should be) then the protocols used by your older Macbook might not be very strong. I'd say if you are literally just using the computer to connect to a trusted server and nothing much else (i.e not general web browsing) then yes that would be a very low risk. If you start browsing the internet with an unsupported browser on the other hand, you could get compromised very quickly indeed.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?


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Standard User charlestown
(regular) Thu 08-Apr-21 22:38:07
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
This is one of those old cheese grater towers that go on forever and very expandable, though the speed advantage they once enjoyed just isn't there nowadays. Part of me just doesn't want to give up the old beast, which has run so reliably since new and still potentially useful as an offline production machine for a couple more years.

On the other hand, no which way do I want to compromise the security of my setup, especially since it currently has a lot of shared project data stored on iCloud. I suspect it would be possible to continue running current browsers like Chrome or Firefox for quite a while, but I am perplexed when I see Mac users running even older hardware with El Capitan that hasn't been updated in about three years. Running patches to install newer software is filled with compromises as well.

Basically I always need two computers here in the office. One as a main machine and a backup that can also be put to work in the background on tasks like video editing, 3D rendering or photo retouching. The plan was to try and keep this one going until the dust has settled with with new M1 machines.

Regarding the routers I was thinking about Wi-Fi 6 and WPA3, plus having a separate router from the modem. My understanding is that most ISP supplied routers are somewhat compromised.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Apr-21 14:25:42
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
I think you're going to be fine. WPA2 with a strong password is secure enough. It's not like someone is going to be standing outside your premises for days on end trying to compromise it.

If you're dealing with highly sensitive/valuable information on the other hand which is a target then yes, everything should be completely enterprise-grade and supported including your router etc.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Fri 09-Apr-21 14:34:44
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I actually ordered a DrayTek Vigor 130 modem and a TP-Link Archer C2300 router not long ago that should e here tomorrow and hopefully OK. The modem looks like a safe bet and I was unsure about the router but it seems to be highly rated.

Nevertheless I have thought on the Mac Pro and decided it would be better to retire before long. Realistically the only reason I have to keep it here is to run a few old apps like Photoshop CS6, however it seems to be running into more compatibility issues all the time. I cannot really complain after 10 years running practically 24/7.
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 16:10:25
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
I think safety all depends on how you're intending to use the machine. It's possible that some native applications on the latest released OS version on the older Mac don't support recent security standards (older versions of Mail don't support TLS v1.2 for example) but third party alternatives can so they should be used instead.

It's also important to ensure that Mac computers which are regularly used to access email or for web browsing should have some sort of antivirus / antimalware package installed. I use a full fat paid version to protect the Macs I use but there are lots of free packages available.

The thing I would be wary of would be running any sort of service on the Mac Pro that you want to be available from the outside world via port forwarding. I run lots of externally accessible servers doing different things but they're all on a separate DMZ so don't have direct access to anything on my LAN. If I want to access anything on the LAN from remotely I need to use a VPN.

You mention;
In theory the Mac Pro should still be safe connecting to my server via FTP
The way I understand this is that you have a remote server which you wish to connect to from the Mac Pro. As has already been mentioned you should only use encrypted SFTP, not FTP, but consider using SCP and SSH to access the server instead - preferably coupled with multi-factor authentication and automatic IP lockout after a very small number of failed login attempts and account lockout after a slightly higher number. You need to consider protecting the server here more than protecting the Mac pro.

As for the security of routers, most domestic grade routers, even high end ones, are pretty abysmal as far as security is concerned - see Fraunhofer Home Router Security Report 2020. Running NAT doesn't protect machines on the LAN from external compromise due to a recently disclosed attack method called NAT slipstreaming so you need to be very careful with router configuration.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Sat 10-Apr-21 17:19:18
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Reading that PDF report on home routers was quite depressing and seems like my best protection so far is simply having complex passwords for both wifi and router alike. I also disabled 2.4GHz, since that can be picked up from further away. The DNS settings inside the router have been switched and all sharing turned off.

FTP connections, much like my websites have all been using SSL for years. My web host won't even let me add a domain to the server without SSL, yet I found myself wondering earlier as I set up the new TP-Link router why their login isn't SSL enabled by default. The server is already set up to reject any IP number that fails to connect properly more than a couple times.

Yes I ran into the issue with mail and TLS a couple years ago on an ancient iMac from 2007 running El Capitan that was sitting in a cupboard as an emergency backup. One day my web host changed their minimum TLS requirements and Mail was rendered useless. I briefly tried Thunderbird as an alternative, which did work, however it was clear that very few apps were even compatible at this stage, so it ended up at the local recycling centre after removing the hard drive.

I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know how long it will be before Mojave runs into such problems, however there are already a few compatibility issues with various apps and that will only accelerate now we have the new silicon processors.

Overall I see waving red flags telling me that none of this is worth the risk or hassle, because you only need one problem to risk spilling over to the entire network as long as it remains online and networked to the other computers. For example I keep work files in iCloud and it's very conveneient when working in a team, but I would be crying if they were accessed through an insecure old Mac.

The Mac Pro could still be a decent machine for rendering 3D files from Maya and also enjoys the ability to run Photoshop CS6, which is still useful, but that is about it. Practically anything else can be done faster and better on a new machine. My hope is that Apple will come out with a second generation M1 Mac mini later this year and then I should be set for 5+ years.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 18:04:10
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by charlestown:
The Mac Pro could still be a decent machine for rendering 3D files from Maya and also enjoys the ability to run Photoshop CS6, which is still useful, but that is about it.
You might find installing a different OS on the machine (e.g. Windows or Linux) gives you more utility.

For example - I have a laptop over 10 years old with a Core2Duo processor with 8GB of RAM that is running the latest Windows 10 version 20H2, and up to date patches.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Sat 10-Apr-21 18:36:55
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I was thinking about that but apparently Photoshop CS6 has issues with AMD graphics cards on Windows 10, which is not the case on Mac. Above all I really don't want to spend any money on this computer as it is now 11 years old.

In general I only use Windows if I have no choice and that is very rare nowadays, but yes it's ironic a Mac could theoretically run Windows with all the latest patches after Apple has already abandoned the same hardware.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 18:55:21
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by charlestown:
it's ironic a Mac could theoretically run Windows with all the latest patches after Apple has already abandoned the same hardware.
Its a shame Apple abandons relatively early. Microsoft supports corporate customers with thousands of desktops in offices around the globe, and they know where their income comes from. Apple's income is from selling new hardware. Despite Apple's green credentials, this expiry of hardware is a black mark against them. My parents have a MacBook Air that is now out of support and cannot run Big Sur, but boot camp runs Win10!

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Sat 10-Apr-21 19:33:37
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
This Mac Pro is clearly not as fast as the new machines, but it was only overtaken a couple years ago and remains very usable for most tasks even today. Nevertheless Intel stopped with the microcode updates a few years ago and I cannot even enable file encrypt on this computer running Mojave, so there are compromises creeping in everywhere. Just to run it with Mojave I had to install a Metal enabled graphics card and that effectively bought me another year of support.
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 19:44:27
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
When you say some routers are more secure than others, what do you mean by that exactly?

For the average home user, the router does not really play any major part in security.
That's an odd statement to make. Most modern routers have built in firewalls and even those rare few that don't will be using NAT for IPv4 which implicitly blocks machines on the LAN from external attack.

Now granted domestic routers don't do very much if anything to protect connections opened up from inside the LAN but to claim that 'the router does not really play any major part in security' seems a very odd thing to suggest. They are the first line of defence and for IPv4 they repel 100% of random attacks without even trying. For IPv6 a bug in the firewall could let random packets onto the LAN but that's fairly unlikely.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 20:40:09
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Problem is for most ISP issued routers what they call ‘firewall’ is not documented, and it is unclear if this is anything more than just NAT on IPv4.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 20:51:12
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
When you say some routers are more secure than others, what do you mean by that exactly?

For the average home user, the router does not really play any major part in security.
That's an odd statement to make. Most modern routers have built in firewalls and even those rare few that don't will be using NAT for IPv4 which implicitly blocks machines on the LAN from external attack.

Now granted domestic routers don't do very much if anything to protect connections opened up from inside the LAN but to claim that 'the router does not really play any major part in security' seems a very odd thing to suggest. They are the first line of defence and for IPv4 they repel 100% of random attacks without even trying. For IPv6 a bug in the firewall could let random packets onto the LAN but that's fairly unlikely.

Probably a wrong choice of words - what I meant is, all these options are already switched on by default on any sort of home router and it's just a given that it'll be enabled. So it's not really an area of concern for a home user. It's different to the days when people had ADSL modems and the like. Now every ISP supply a router and they are all doing NAT. You've got the protection and that's the end of it. All the point and click firewall features you see on colourful home routers are just snake oil.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 20:52:06
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Problem is for most ISP issued routers what they call ‘firewall’ is not documented, and it is unclear if this is anything more than just NAT on IPv4.
That's all you want it to be (on IPv4). Home routers aren't up to the job of firewalling anyway. All these sort of features just cause more problems than they solve.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 21:35:16
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
That's all you want it to be (on IPv4). Home routers aren't up to the job of firewalling anyway. All these sort of features just cause more problems than they solve.
Agreed, you’d just had hundreds of support calls when an outbound port is blocked. Enterprise firewall features are great, where you have a dedicated fw admin !

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 23:16:49
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Most modern routers ....[snip]
[/snip].... will be using NAT for IPv4 which implicitly blocks machines on the LAN from external attack.
[pantomime]Oh no, it doesn't![/pantomime]

See my post above which mentions NAT slipstreaming.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 23:19:53
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Enterprise firewall features are great, where you have a dedicated fw admin !
Luckily, I have. Me smile

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Apr-21 23:30:26
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
Luckily, I have. Me smile
I grew up on the original Nokia / Checkpoint FW platform, when colleagues where fighting rule bases of tens of pages, pre-stateful. Thankfully others do that now smile

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Apr-21 00:52:47
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
It is quite difficult to pull off a NAT slipstreaming attack and it does go back to the original point about not browsing websites on an unsupported device. There would have to be quite a few things go wrong in order for this sort of attack to be executed against a home user and to then be subsequently able to exploit the machine and somehow steal data. There does need to be a certain amount of perspective applied to these so-called exploits.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User smouty
(member) Wed 21-Apr-21 14:28:01
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
For an ISP provided router you should probably work on the premise it is not secure enough to be useful. It is adequate for people who have no security concerns to get them on the internet.

Regarding even half decent routers (in their day in my case) there are limits on what the low cost hardware can do.
Example - I recently retired an Asus RT-N66U (I never used the wifi) which was running Advanced Tomato as there had not been any updates since 2017.
This router could apparently route upto 900mbit/s.
I swapped this for an appliance type device, an APU2 running OPNSense which has much better hardware and this again is capable of gbit routing but only as long as you are not doing any of the more useful security measures such as IDS or DPI in which case you'll be lucky to get 300mbit


I would look to at least segregate wifi from everything else and only allow what is necessary. This is a pain though which is why most people do not entertain it.

Long story short, decent security requires fairly beefy hardware so if your router is really low energy then assume it offers basic security only.

@OP - Have you looked at OpenCore? You may be able to get a bit more life out of your MacPro
I'm running Big Sur 11.2.3 on an HP 800 G2 mini with 100% compatiblity e.g. iServices, no issues with updates, Apple Watch unlock, handoff, Airdrop etc.
I'm also just waiting on a Mac Mini update but I might cave and get the standard M1 if I see one for the right price.

OPNSense on APU2 + Wireguard
PiHole + unbound

Edited by smouty (Wed 21-Apr-21 14:35:49)

Standard User charlestown
(regular) Wed 21-Apr-21 15:41:55
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by smouty:
@OP - Have you looked at OpenCore? You may be able to get a bit more life out of your MacPro
I'm running Big Sur 11.2.3 on an HP 800 G2 mini with 100% compatiblity e.g. iServices, no issues with updates, Apple Watch unlock, handoff, Airdrop etc.
I'm also just waiting on a Mac Mini update but I might cave and get the standard M1 if I see one for the right price.


Yes I saw OpenCore the other day and wondered about the relative pros & cons of attempting that route. My brief understanding was that it would allow me to run Big Sur but entailed further compromises in performance and security, which sort of defeats the object if true, however I would need to study this further.

One thing holding me back from attempting the switch is that I would lose access to Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom that still work well enough and I don't want to be on the hook for subscription payments with CC. Most of the time Affinity apps are pretty good, but there are times when I still want to reach for the old guns. It would have to be tested but theoretically I could run those on Windows from the same computer or my wife's laptop.

You made a good point about keeping the Mac Pro on a separate network and I have just done this. I think the big step here would actually be removing it from iCloud, since anything breached there would automatically lead to the main computer.

Like yourself I am basically waiting on a Mac mini update that should really be a great machine. I picked up a top spec i7 Intel based 2018 model a year ago and that is already pretty good. As a web designer the biggest workflow block in productivity is usually me sitting confused in front of the computer.

TPL-Link AC2300 router - Draytek Vigor 130 modem.
Standard User smouty
(member) Wed 21-Apr-21 16:05:34
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
I don't see how OpenCore compromises security. It fundamentally applies ACPI patches on PC hardware in order for MacOS to be installed WITHOUT affecting security. I'm no expert on Mac hardware but I think you would be patching the SMBIOS so your MacPro appeared as a later model. No OS files are touched like they were in other loaders and security enhancements such as System Integrity Protection remain enabled at all times. -

Example - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/opencore-on-the...

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi

Edited by smouty (Wed 21-Apr-21 16:10:36)

Standard User charlestown
(regular) Wed 21-Apr-21 16:13:38
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by smouty:
I don't see how OpenCore compromises security. It fundamentally applies ACPI patches on PC hardware in order for MacOS to be installed WITHOUT affecting security. I'm no expert on Mac hardware but I think you would be patching the SMBIOS so your MacPro appeared as a later model. No OS files are touched like they were in other loaders and security enhancements such as System Integrity Protection remain enabled at all times.


I don't really know enough about this, though I've read some say they lost graphics acceleration or had to switch of hyper threading. No matter how much we might want this to work we cannot ignore that Big Sur was never intended to run on these machines, so there could be any number of potential exploits or future bugs, especially with any third party software.

TPL-Link AC2300 router - Draytek Vigor 130 modem.
Standard User smouty
(member) Wed 21-Apr-21 18:21:43
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
Loss of Graphic acceleration or having to reduce cores etc is a misconfiguration topic.
The hardware you use needs to match an Apple SMBIOS but CPU IDs can be spoofed and drivers need to be available so for example recent Nvidia cards will never work.

I've been involved with the OpenCore sub Reddit for some time and and there are no generic issues.

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Wed 21-Apr-21 18:28:45
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by smouty:
Loss of Graphic acceleration or having to reduce cores etc is a misconfiguration topic.
The hardware you use needs to match an Apple SMBIOS but CPU IDs can be spoofed and drivers need to be available so for example recent Nvidia cards will never work.

I've been involved with the OpenCore sub Reddit for some time and and there are no generic issues.


From what you are saying it sounds like this is fundamentally different from the Dosdude patch I recall being used in the past by many. I was never too enthusiastic about that.

TPL-Link AC2300 router - Draytek Vigor 130 modem.
Standard User smouty
(member) Wed 21-Apr-21 18:58:20
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
Yeah. Completely different.

It is known as a vanilla installer as nothing is touched on the MacOS side but ACPIs are tweaked at boot to meet Apple naming conventions.

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Wed 21-Apr-21 19:02:00
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by smouty:
Yeah. Completely different.

It is known as a vanilla installer as nothing is touched on the MacOS side but ACPIs are tweaked at boot to meet Apple naming conventions.


It looks like I would need to change the wifi chip but that shouldn't be overly difficult. The graphics card is already metal enabled, but now I think about it, I think I read something about it not working with Big Sur, so I would need to check that. It's an RX560 and I basically bought it as the cheapest way to upgrade from High Sierra to Mojave at the time.

TPL-Link AC2300 router - Draytek Vigor 130 modem.
Standard User smouty
(member) Thu 22-Apr-21 12:51:09
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
I fitted an internal Apple airport card - BCM943602CS from ebay which works perfectly with Apple keyboard and trackpad etc.
These can be fitted to PCI-e adapters in desktops or there is a Fenvi card which is 100% compatible.

Your GPU should be fine in Big Sur.

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi

Edited by smouty (Thu 22-Apr-21 12:53:46)

Standard User smouty
(member) Fri 23-Apr-21 13:40:35
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
I've ordered an M1 basic Mac Mini as there are some on the Apple refurb store.

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi
Standard User charlestown
(regular) Fri 23-Apr-21 13:54:54
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by smouty:
I've ordered an M1 basic Mac Mini as there are some on the Apple refurb store.


From everything I have seen and read the performance on these M1 machines is pretty breathtaking most of the time. I saw something on YouTube a while back with a guy who was selling his $15,000 2019 Mac Pro, because 90% of the time he found the mini was faster. He still rated the Mac Pro but wanted to sell it while it still has some kind of resale value.

It's insane that the M1 is delivering that kind of speed and this is only the beginning, but even more so that it does all of this with so little fuss. No more crazy high temperatures, screaming fans, heavy electrical consumption or spinning ball.

TPL-Link AC2300 router - Draytek Vigor 130 modem.
Standard User smouty
(member) Fri 23-Apr-21 14:02:28
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
Yeah. Given that I'm currently running an a 6th gen i5 with 8Gb which is more than fast enough for everything I want then the M1 should be OK for me.

OPNSense
PiHole
Unifi for Wifi
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Fri 23-Apr-21 18:16:10
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Re: How unsafe is an old computer online?


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
They are very snappy machines, certainly in MacBook form in my experience. I noticed that you can spec an M1 based Mini with 10GbE for £100, which all things considered is not too bad actually.

Edited by Pheasant (Fri 23-Apr-21 18:16:38)

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