Attempt to get 1.3Mbps upload - the results.....

Hi Everyone,

In one of the previous thread about upload never being 1.3Mbps i said i'd contact sky and see if they would improve my line. To make this easier for the forum i decided to do it using the contact form on sky which is basically an email request. Pasted below is the chain of emails that this created:

Hello,
My connection is very good i would simply like an improvement on the upload speed. I am very close to the exchange and have almost 20Mbps download, but my upload is not the full 1.3Mbps. Could you see if this could be increased, or advise why i cannot get the full connection? I am a member of thinkbroadband.com and have yet to see a sky customer with 1.3Mbps Upload. This is dissuading many of the forum members from switching from Be to Sky. My router is connected to the master socket. I have no extensions and using the test socket makes no difference to the speed.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 19957 kbps 1022 kbps
Line Attenuation 16 db 7 db
Noise Margin 7 db 10 db

Thanks
Kris


Hi Kris
Thank you for contacting Sky Help Centre. Having reconfigured your line , the maximum upload speed to ensure a stable connection is 1Meg. This speed is totally dependant on the quality of the line. For further assistance, you can visit our help centre on line at http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skyhelpcentre
I hope this information has helped with your enquiry. If you require any further assistance, you can respond to my email. You can also contact our Technical team on 08442 410 515, where one of our advisors will be happy to help.
Thanks
Andrew

Hello,
Whilst reconfiguring my upload, you have reduced my download:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15323 kbps 1044 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 7 db
Noise Margin 14 db 8 db

Could you fix my download so its back to nearly 20Mbit? Also, could you advise if my upload has any errors in it? i would be happy with an upload SNR of 6db.

Thanks
Kris


Dear Mr Lord
Thank you for contacting Sky Help Centre regarding your broadband connection speeds. I have amended the downstream as requested to the maximum which is shown below. When downstream is increased the upstream decreases and vice versa. This is in order to maintain a stable connection. It is not possible to reach the maximum attainable on both and continue to run a stable line. There are currently no errors as we have the line configured correctly. There is an actual SNR of 7db.

Trained In Download Speed 19824 Kbps
Trained In Upload Speed 765 Kbps
Configured Download Speed 20000 Kbps
Configured Upload Speed 768 Kbps
Max Attainable Rate Down 20832 Kbps

I hope this helps with your enquiry.
Kind regards
Rebecca

Hello
Thanks for fixing my download, but you have also reduced my upload! if you refer to the beginning of this email you will see i was getting:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 19957 kbps 1022 kbps
Line Attenuation 16 db 7 db
Noise Margin 7 db 10 db

My original request was to improve my upload, but this has proved to be impossible. I would now like my line configured so that i get the download and upload quoted above. Therefore please could your remove the cap on my upload and allow it to return to 1000kbps+
Kind Regards
Kris

Dear Mr Lord
Sorry for the delay in replying to your message. I have looked into this for you, however we can's have your download speed at 20mb and your upload over 1mb. If we raise your upload speed then you will lose on your download speed, please reply to advise what you want to do.
For further assistance, you can visit our help centre on line at http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skyhelpcentre
I hope this information has helped with your enquiry. If you require any further assistance, you can respond to my email. You can also contact our Technical team on 08442 410 515, where one of our advisors will be happy to help.
Kind regards
Paul

Hello,
Could you remove the upload limit so we can see what happens? As you can see form my initial email, i have had almost 20Mbps and 1000kbps upload. As a minimum I would like my line to have similar stats to that before we tried to improve on the upload.
Kind Regards
Kris

Dear Mr Lord
Sorry for the delay in replying to your message. I have looked into this for you and your line is set to the best possible setting, however if I remove the upload then this will cause issue with your upload. Can you please reply to this email to advise what you would like to do. For further assistance, you can visit our help centre on line at http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skyhelpcentre I hope this information has helped with your enquiry. If you require any further assistance, you can respond to my email. You can also contact our Technical team on 08442 410 515, where one of our advisors will be happy to help.
Kind regards
Paul

Hello,
Please go ahead and reconfigure my upstream - I have a significant upstream noise margin as shown below. Ideally i would like my upload to be as high as possible with a noise margin of 7db.
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 19961 kbps 765 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 6 db
Noise Margin 7 db 14 db

Kind Regards
Kris

Hi Kris
Thank you for contacting Sky Help Centre. I have accessed your account and reconfigured the upload speed to 1044 kbps and the download speed I have left alone and is currently syncing at 19927 kbps. Please monitor the connection for the next few days and let us know if you need us to make any other changes. I hope this information has helped with your enquiry. If you require any further assistance, you can respond to my email. You can also contact our Customer Services team on 08442 41 41 41, where one of our advisors will be happy to help.
Kind regards
Claire

So, after all this back and forth after 2 weeks of email, i'm back where i started - with a 1Mbit upload.... good luck to anyone else who tries this!
My stats are now:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 19927 kbps 1023 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 6 db
Noise Margin 7 db 9 db

I would laugh at it all didn't make me cry I have had exactly the same response from Sky, who I think are just plainly lying, but [insert disclaimer] I don't have the tech knowledge to prove it [/insert disclaimer]. Having been stated by one of Sky's Technical Solutions people that the max upload cap on all unlimited lines was 1024kbpps, I assume they try to enforce this rigorously.

I may enter battle with the them again in the near future...

>> If we raise your upload speed then you will lose on your download speed,

Thats not quite true Im afraid - well not on Annex_A anyhow... and on a line line yours you should be fine.

----

ADSL uses a technology called DMT which 'splits' your line into specific frequencies or tones.
The upstream channel uses tones 6-31 and downstream uses 33-255 for adsl1 or 33-511 for adsl2+

When your router syncs up, each of the frequency bins are filled with as many bits as your SNR at that particular tone will allow. There are obviously some restrictions ie max 15 bits per bin.. and any shaping by PSD masks relevant to that tone... and also of course any DLM configurements.

When they allow you more speed on your upstream.. that allows more bits to be loaded into the upstream tones.
It doesnt impact on the downstream as these are entirely different frequencies. Each tone is independant to the others. If your router cant load sufficient bits into a particular bin, then it simply marks it as unusable and 'moves on' to the next one to see what can be used there.

Based on a target SNR of 7dB, then you have 3dB of spare upstream. Normally this could give you somewhere in the region of around 800 kbps of additional sync. However, the latter upstream tones are more shaped on the PSD masks and wont allow full bitloading.. but you should still manage an additional 300 kb to take you to the 1.3Mb.

Its when you start using Annex_M that increases in the upstream causes a decrease in the downstream.
Annex_M uses a different PSD mask that allows tones 6-56 to be used for the upstream and the downstream doesnt start until tone 60. Annex_M doesnt work too good on longer lines for a couple of reasons, and on a very long line can actually take away more from the downstream than what it gives to the upstream.

So it would seem the upto 1.3mb is a complete fallacy and is indeed mis advertised , and it is indeed only upto 1mb ( for most , as i have seen some lines in the 1.2mb).
I expect Sky have seen BT getting away with there upto 8mb for so long , they have thought " we will have some of those apples " .

Thanks for posting back and confirming what i already suspected .

Cant say it makes me happy thou , as i did want and was hoping to find away to hit the 1.3mb upload on the Eastnet Lucent MSANs , maybe the situation is different where Sky have installed there own MSANs .

Maybe the situation will be different if using a Conexant based router , still answered questions , and maybe time for a persistent assault on UKonline Technical support , to see if i can gleam some info from them .

What ever i find ( if i find anything ) out i will post back for Sky customers out there hunting that unicorn of a beast " the 1.3mb upload " .

Dont hold much hope thou , as the last time i asked UKonline Tech support to add overheads to my upload , i hit i stone wall " with at this moment UKonline only support upto 1mb " . Which is what they advertise and what they supply .

Attach an Argon 432 based router such as a Billion 7402R2 to your line, you'll get that 1.3Mbps.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/sky/t/3708534-re-ju...

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The Lucent MSANs are unable to deliver much over 1Mbps upstream to most chipsets. That's where the issue comes in.

The Argon 432 is a chipset which will deliver it.

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Oct-09 10:21:08)

The "Configured Upload Speed" Sky support were talking about looks interesting. Perhaps they can't/won't set it above 1 mbps? They didn't say what it was set to in the end, they only mentioned it after they set it to 768 kbps (for some odd reason).

They clearly state that they are unable or unwilling to uncap both the downstream and the upstream simultaneously.

I have looked into this for you, however we can't have your download speed at 20mb and your upload over 1mb.

Edited by Oliver341 (Thu 01-Oct-09 11:33:37)

Talking to a couple of people I believe this is due to their concerns about upstream stability with a number of chipsets.

I can assure you that the equipment in the exchange is more than capable... with the right router on your side.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

I can assure you that the equipment in the exchange is more than capable... with the right router on your side.

And Sky do not supply "the right router"?

found the guy who did exactly this.

he gained a whopping 30kbit when moving to a 7402 router.

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14261...

It appeared the reason was sky capped his synch as the synch stayed similiar but the noise margin increased.

I do agree with you yes use a conexant router on a easynet dslam, but we are seeing people synch with excess noise margin's which indicates synch speed caps set or high target noise margin's.

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 01-Oct-09 12:03:08)

So the only way of achieving the advertised upload rate on Sky is to break the terms of the contract and use a third-party router? Classic.