What gives with my download speed?

OK. I have Sky Broadband and, frankly, I'm unimpressed. Sky refuse to believe that there is anything wrong with my line which means endless trips around the "plug a different filter, test socket, script roundabout" and no progress.

They *claim* that I'm getting 5-8MB. Indeed, the router says that the sync speed is - currently - 7996kbps. However, in *practice* - using the ThinkBroadband speed tester and with real-world downloads - I'm never getting better than 1.4M.

I can only interpret this as being a contention problem and a lack of pipe capacity from the exchange to the rest of the internet. Is that a correct interpretation?

If that *is* the case, will switching provider put me onto a fatter pipe?

For the record, my connection status details are:

Down:
Speed - 7996 kbps
Attenuation - 27 db
Noise Margin - 14db

Up:
Speed - 509 kbps
Attenuation - 7.5 db
Noise Margin - 16db

And Think Broadband speed test currently says:
Speed Down - 1037.70 Kbps ( 1 Mbps )
Speed Up - 400.19 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )

Any advice will be gratefully received.

try a speed test here : http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/

if as you say the lower speed is caused by *contention within the sky network,then yes changing to* a provider with less contention on there network in your area 'could' increase your download speed..

im sure there will be some other users that will post that have more knowledge than me when it comes to reading your modem stats..

what exchange are you connected to.? http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

this will give you an idea of what other providers are available to you in your area..

good luck..


edit:*

Edited by djfunkdup (Mon 15-Aug-11 22:48:53)

Are you on Sky Connect? Tough! You would be getting 17 Meg Sync on ADSL2+.

Using the Broadbandmax speed test, I get around 3M down and 400k up. These are better than I see with the ThinkBroadband test, but still not at the level that the router says I am syncing at.

The BBC iplayer download tester says:
Download speed - 3427 kbps
Streaming speed (1) 1730 kbps
Streaming speed (2) 1120 kbps
Streaming speed (3) 890 kbps

So the average is 1246 kbps

I don't understand why there is such variation between tests (and between parts of the BBC test)? Certainly the connection that I get in practical terms does not *feel* like a 3MB+ connection. YouTube videos break up and require buffering repeatedly and downloads take an age to complete.

I can see what other providers are available, but is there any way to see what the speeds they can provide are actually like?

What package are you on?

What other providers are available on your exchange?

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

Using the Broadbandmax speed test, I get around 3M down and 400k up. These are better than I see with the ThinkBroadband test, but still not at the level that the router says I am syncing at.

The BBC iplayer download tester says:
Download speed - 3427 kbps
Streaming speed (1) 1730 kbps
Streaming speed (2) 1120 kbps
Streaming speed (3) 890 kbps

So the average is 1246 kbps

I don't understand why there is such variation between tests (and between parts of the BBC test)? Certainly the connection that I get in practical terms does not *feel* like a 3MB+ connection. YouTube videos break up and require buffering repeatedly and downloads take an age to complete.

I can see what other providers are available, but is there any way to see what the speeds they can provide are actually like?

Generally if you choose an LLU provider you will see your full sync speed.

LLU is where the service provider has put their equipment into your local telephone exchange (usually a building near to you)

So SKY will go to your local exchange and put Sky equipment into this.

When you subscribe to Sky you then get Sky's LLU broadband and your line connects directly to Skys equipment at the exchange.

HOWEVER

If Sky have not been to your local exchange and have not put their equipment into your exchange....

You can still subscribe to sky broadband...

HOWEVER your line connects to the local exchange and then accesses sky via BTs equipment.

It goes

Your house - local exchange - BTs equipment - Sky

This is instead of your line connecting to the local exchange and connecting to sky directly through skys LLU

With LLU it goes

your house - local exchange - Sky

This bypasses renting capacity from BT

So without LLU sky have to use BTs equipment...

& Sky have to pay a premium to BT for the data that you use. It is far more costly per GB than using their own LLU network.

Because of this Sky minimize on the amount of backhaul that they buy from BT. This means that people who are not on LLU have a poor experience and slow speeds.

Whereas a sky customer on LLU will have fantastic speeds as Sky are not having to pay BT a premium...

SO WHY ISN'T LLU EVERYWHERE?

Installing their own equipment into the local exchange is expensive

If you live in a small village many service providers will not see the point in paying a high price on installing expensive equipment.

This is because the uptake of their service is likely to be low.

Low uptake = long time for their expensive investment to be paid for.

Ultimately do not install their own equipment.

OTHER FACTORS

the exchange can already be full and there is literally no room to install their own equipment.

SO HOW CAN WE HELP?

Well firstly if you are out of contract with Sky...

Assuming you are not on LLU with Sky.

We can see if there any other LLU options available such as BE or even talktalk (whether it's a re seller or not)

If there is no LLU at your exchange. There are other ISPs out there (usually smaller ones) that will usually charge slightly more but rent plenty of backhaul from BT and hence give you a good speed.

So firstly...

If asked for a username and password
Username: admin
password: sky

Can you access 192.168.0.1 (type this where you usually type in websites such as www.google.co.uk)

Click onto maintenance

Click onto show statistics.

Copy and paste everything on this page into this forum

This will confirm if your lines performing okay and whether you're on LLU or not

I expect to see something like this

Your numbers will be different of course

ROUTER STATISTICS

System Up Time: 77:12:36
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN MER 1528636 2249333 0 205616176 2147483647 77:11:22
LAN Up 1314900 932041 0 1367959945 145959109 77:12:36
WLAN Up 1131246 747071 0 1253538278 87933935 77:12:17
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15336 kbps 1111 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.0 dB 16.9 dB
Noise Margin 8.1 dB 9.1 dB

SECONDLY

Visit http://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker

Enter your details

Click onto summary

It will say "The following services are available in your location:"

Copy and paste everything below this... e.g.

I expect to see something like this

"The following services are available in your location:

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
BT Wholesale WBC (21CN)
AOL LLU
O2 / Be LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU"

From here we can help and do our best

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 16-Aug-11 02:47:11)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Click onto maintenance
Click onto show statistics.
Copy and paste everything on this page into this forum

First Disclaimer - I'm using my old NetGear router because I consistently get better wireless strength and 30% better throughput on that than the [censored] blue Sagem box that sky supplied. Numbers should be the same though? If not, then I'll try tonight with the original Sky box and will repost.

System Up Time 56:55:48
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 527130 492300 0 896 2208 56:55:21
LAN 10M/100M 10027 0 0 12 0 56:55:44
WLAN 11M/54M 479384 531093 0 2180 902 56:55:33

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7996 kbps 509 kbps
Line Attenuation 27 db 7.5 db
Noise Margin 14 db 16 db

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

SECONDLY

Visit http://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker
Enter your details
Click onto summary

It will say "The following services are available in your location:"

From here we can help and do our best

The following services are available in your location:

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
AOL LLU
O2 / Be LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU
Tiscali LLU
Tiscali TV (via Tiscali LLU)
Orange LLU (Formerly Wanadoo)


This is very much appreciated. Thanks.

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Click onto maintenance
Click onto show statistics.
Copy and paste everything on this page into this forum

First Disclaimer - I'm using my old NetGear router because I consistently get better wireless strength and 30% better throughput on that than the [censored] blue Sagem box that sky supplied. Numbers should be the same though? If not, then I'll try tonight with the original Sky box and will repost.

System Up Time 56:55:48
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 527130 492300 0 896 2208 56:55:21
LAN 10M/100M 10027 0 0 12 0 56:55:44
WLAN 11M/54M 479384 531093 0 2180 902 56:55:33

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7996 kbps 509 kbps
Line Attenuation 27 db 7.5 db
Noise Margin 14 db 16 db

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

SECONDLY

Visit http://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker
Enter your details
Click onto summary

It will say "The following services are available in your location:"

From here we can help and do our best

The following services are available in your location:

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
AOL LLU
O2 / Be LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU
Tiscali LLU
Tiscali TV (via Tiscali LLU)
Orange LLU (Formerly Wanadoo)


This is very much appreciated. Thanks.

Right just looking at this real quickly on my way to work. Will check my reply later

It's definitely looking like you ARE on LLU so you should be getting full speeds

There's definitely a problem though as that line should get at least 14 mbps

The heightened noise margin shows this issue

Are you using wifi? Have you tried a different router?

Don't run speedtests on this site, it misreports for me massively. It shows me at sub 1 Mbps when I can easily download at over 10mbps and stream iplayer hd

use the speedtester listed above or www.speedtest.net & select the London server

Just finally...

Sky DLM has set your line to a really poor sync which means something is prob wrong at your end

This could be causing issues

Can you run www.pingtest.net and report back

Are you in the master socket directly. No Argos style (usually flat white) telephone extension wires?

Try a new filter too.

Is every device in your home filtered?

Even sky boxes, fax machines and all telephones need filtering

Nothing should connect directly to the phone line

The sky LLU network is operated by easynet

Basically there's tonnes of backhaul so there shouldn't be a slowdown

Who was your previous ISP and what speeds did you get?

You've prob done everything above but if possible can you describe your setup?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 16-Aug-11 08:50:12)

If this is congestion based, then when its 1am through to around 10am you should see much better speeds.

if bad 24/7 then possibly something hardware based.

Try a speedtest.net with a different server - Newbury is usually a good one.

I've seen this myself and the default server appears to be on a congested or traffic managed link.

The other thing is that Sky's LLU network is going over to MER rather than PPPoA - Sky's own routers know how to talk MER but no one else as yet has got a non-sky router talking MER. I've read a report that users still connecting via PPPoA where MER is available are reporting slow speeds. I've not tested this myself and neither am I likely to but it might be worth testing for possible differences between the Sky supplied router and your own.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Are you using wifi? Have you tried a different router?

"Yes" and "Yes". Results are pretty much the same with wired connection into the router (slightly faster with the ethernet). I previously used the Sky Sagem router. That is consistently around 25% worse than the NetGear router. As I said, the wireless signal strength is appalling with the Sagem router as well, but that is incidental to the main issue.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Don't run speedtests on this site, it misreports for me massively. It shows me at sub 1 Mbps when I can easily download at over 10mbps and stream iplayer hd

use the speedtester listed above or www.speedtest.net & select the London server

OK. speedtest.net reports:

Recommended Server (Manchester)
Ping: 46ms
Down: 2.49 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps


London Server (NamesCo)
Ping: 83ms
Down: 5.73 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps

So perhaps there isn't anything wrong with my connection? This still doesn't *feel* like a 6M link for all the real stuff that I do though {

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Just finally...

Sky DLM has set your line to a really poor sync which means something is prob wrong at your end

This could be causing issues

Can you run www.pingtest.net and report back

Packet Loss: 0%
Ping: 67ms
Jitter: 1ms

Grade: B

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Are you in the master socket directly. No Argos style (usually flat white) telephone extension wires?

Try a new filter too.

Is every device in your home filtered?

Even sky boxes, fax machines and all telephones need filtering

Nothing should connect directly to the phone line

I'm not only in the master socket, I'm in the *test* socket behind it. Tried different filters. Only other thing plugged in is the telephone (Panasonic KX-TG8021E). Don't even have the sky HD box plugged in. Just the router and the phone.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

The sky LLU network is operated by easynet

Basically there's tonnes of backhaul so there shouldn't be a slowdown

But the huge differences between the servers in the speedtest (and the huge variance between the different speedtest sites) suggest there is a bottleneck somewhere further up the pipes, doesn't it?

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Who was your previous ISP and what speeds did you get?

You've prob done everything above but if possible can you describe your setup?

I've been with Sky for a long time. Previous ISP was Madasafish and I was only ever on a 512kbps connection with them (that was fast back then }). In those days, we didn't have speedtesters (or not that I remember!!).

Thanks for all your help.

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

OK. speedtest.net reports:

Recommended Server (Manchester)
Ping: 46ms
Down: 2.49 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps


London Server (NamesCo)
Ping: 83ms
Down: 5.73 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps

And now re-running against London Namesco I get:
Ping: 83ms
Down: 2.13 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps

Why the *huge* variation?

How come your Connection Speed is so low?

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7996 kbps 509 kbps
Line Attenuation 27 db 7.5 db
Noise Margin 14 db 16 db

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Are you using wifi? Have you tried a different router?

"Yes" and "Yes". Results are pretty much the same with wired connection into the router (slightly faster with the ethernet). I previously used the Sky Sagem router. That is consistently around 25% worse than the NetGear router. As I said, the wireless signal strength is appalling with the Sagem router as well, but that is incidental to the main issue.

You say the wireless signal is appalling. Wireless performs badly often even with full signal. Once the signal degrades below 3 bars in my household we get sub 2mbps speeds.

Have you tried changing the wireless channel in the router?

Also are these slowdowns ALWAYS or just at peak times. E.g. at 2am is the connection still slow.

OK. speedtest.net reports:

Recommended Server (Manchester)
Ping: 46ms
Down: 2.49 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps


London Server (NamesCo)
Ping: 83ms
Down: 5.73 Mbps
Up: 0.42 Mbps

{

I generally trust the London server. I've had weird things on other servers.

Packet Loss: 0%
Ping: 67ms
Jitter: 1ms

Grade: B

This is all perfectly fine, no packet loss

'm not only in the master socket, I'm in the *test* socket behind it. Tried different filters. Only other thing plugged in is the telephone (Panasonic KX-TG8021E). Don't even have the sky HD box plugged in. Just the router and the phone.

Keep the setup like this for the minute. This is all very good!

But the huge differences between the servers in the speedtest (and the huge variance between the different speedtest sites) suggest there is a bottleneck somewhere further up the pipes, doesn't it?

Some of the speedtesters are just unreliable TBH! Could also be an issue with the wifi or some hardware.

So perhaps there isn't anything wrong with my connection? This still doesn't *feel* like a 6M link for all the real stuff that I do though

There is something DEFINITELY wrong with your connection

You can easily get 14mbps or above. You're not even syncing anywhere near this.

So... We're going to try and resolve this

You need to contact Sky support on the telephone.

Here's the number 08442 411 653 (It's free if you have sky talk)

Ask them to uncap the line.

They may give you rubbish such as 'the line can't handle it' or there's 'too many errors'

Insist that the line is uncapped to at least 14meg as you know the line is capable of this.

Ideally they will uncap the line so it syncs with a noise margin of 7db

Ask for the upload to ALSO be uncapped. You should see at least 1000 kbps on the upload.

So atleast 14 meg on the downstream (you should be able to get higher)!!
atleast 1meg on the upstream

I'd be happy with that.

Once this occurs post your stats up once again please!!

& lets see how things get on!!

EDIT: sky customer services is 24/7 just so you know

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 16-Aug-11 23:58:44)

Speedtests are no good for testing your ADSL link, as they test a lot more of the network, and they can produce varying results if the server is busy, or one of a myriad of other factors.

Try double filtering your cordless phone.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

You say the wireless signal is appalling. Wireless performs badly often even with full signal. Once the signal degrades below 3 bars in my household we get sub 2mbps speeds.

Have you tried changing the wireless channel in the router?

Also are these slowdowns ALWAYS or just at peak times. E.g. at 2am is the connection still slow.

"Wireless signal is appalling" means "using the sky router, I cannot connect reliably using wifi from the upstairs back bedroom/study when the router is in the living room". The Netgear router copes just fine with this. It is also consistently faster than the sky router in throughput.

I haven't tried changing the channel. All the figures that I report are from being in close proximity to the router and I get very similar numbers from wired connection too. As far as I can tell, the slowness (as I perceive it) is constant.

<snip>

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

There is something DEFINITELY wrong with your connection

You can easily get 14mbps or above. You're not even syncing anywhere near this.

So... We're going to try and resolve this

You need to contact Sky support on the telephone.

Here's the number 08442 411 653 (It's free if you have sky talk)

Ask them to uncap the line.

They may give you rubbish such as 'the line can't handle it' or there's 'too many errors'

Insist that the line is uncapped to at least 14meg as you know the line is capable of this.

Ideally they will uncap the line so it syncs with a noise margin of 7db

Ask for the upload to ALSO be uncapped. You should see at least 1000 kbps on the upload.

So atleast 14 meg on the downstream (you should be able to get higher)!!
atleast 1meg on the upstream

I'd be happy with that.

Once this occurs post your stats up once again please!!

& lets see how things get on!!

EDIT: sky customer services is 24/7 just so you know

Did all of the above. I was fortunate to not get through to a drone - this is the first time that I have ever spoken to Sky technical support and not been led - slowly - through the "plug into the test socket, change the filters" script.

He said "There are no caps on these lines".

He looked at the line stats, agreed with me that it should be syncing higher. He tested it up to slightly beyond 16M and said that I should expect to be able to sync at that level. He then (after to-ing and fro-ing with his manager) "reset the line" to trigger it to start to re-sync back to that level.

I now have a slightly higher *upstream* rate (766), but as of this morning my *downstream* rate is still slightly lower than it was [sigh]. I will keep an eye on it over the next few days and report back.

Thanks for your help so far, guys.

Can you post up line stats please

& they prob reset DLM so do not unplug the router

OK.

Currently (approx 30 hours after line "reset"), I have...

System Up Time 33:57:34

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 356702 376980 0 705 3332 33:57:07
LAN 10M/100M 9330 0 0 17 0 33:57:30
WLAN 11M/54M 365598 362166 0 3278 716 33:57:19


Downstream
Connection Speed: 7548 kbps
Line Attenuation: 27 db
Noise Margin: 17 db


UpStream
Connection Speed: 766 kbps
Line Attenuation: 7 db
Noise Margin: 16 db


The optimism of last night is now starting to fade

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

OK.

Currently (approx 30 hours after line "reset"), I have...

System Up Time 33:57:34

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 356702 376980 0 705 3332 33:57:07
LAN 10M/100M 9330 0 0 17 0 33:57:30
WLAN 11M/54M 365598 362166 0 3278 716 33:57:19


Downstream
Connection Speed: 7548 kbps
Line Attenuation: 27 db
Noise Margin: 17 db


UpStream
Connection Speed: 766 kbps
Line Attenuation: 7 db
Noise Margin: 16 db


The optimism of last night is now starting to fade

NOWHERE NEAR GOOD ENOUGH!!

Right firstly, the wireless shouldn't be that bad unless you're going through 4 or more walls...

Access your router and go into wireless settings. Change the wireless channel from 11 to 1. See if this makes the wireless any better...

I think when you call them you should use the sky router. Or if they ask at least lie.

It's against their terms and conditions to use your own & yes they can tell. Although they do nothing about it atm.

Secondly... Looking at the stats.

I can see the router has been turned on for 33hours and 57 minutes

I can also see that the router has been synced at the same speed for 33 hours 57 minutes.

In the last 33 hours 57 mins there is no-way the sync speed has changed as you thought...

It has not gone down in speed.

This is good as it means the lines stable.

BUT...

It means that Sky set your line speed to downstream 7548 kbps
and upstream 766kbps

I'M AFRAID THIS AINT GOOD ENOUGH.

Right, this time when you speak to customer services.

Firstly INSIST that DLM is disabled if it's running....

Then

Access the sky router at 192.168.0.1

Click maintenance and show statistics.

Username: admin
password: sky

The statistics page will come up with the data you've been copying and pasting.

This will load in a window that refreshes once every 10 seconds.

NOW...

When your speaking to sky do whatever it takes to get that sync above 14 mbps

Ask for the customer solutions team, escalations, a supervisor... Whatever it takes. Refuse a callback and refuse to hangup.

On your screen infront of you is the router statistics page that's reloading once every 10seconds.

Don't go until this page shows a speed above 14000kbps which you will be able to see infront of you.

If the statistics page aint showing the 14 meg sync when it refreshes after each 10 second interval, you aint leaving & they aren't doing their job right.

This way you can see what's happening in realtime and before you hang up you'll KNOW it's how you want it. You should see around 16000 kbps on the statistics page

IMPORTANT,

Sky will try various speeds when you're on the phone. Ensure before you hangup that they haven't dropped the sync down to 7mbps

Believe me they are fobbing you off every step of the way and you should EASILY see double those speeds

I'd advise using the sky router as I don't know how your current router reports the statistics. With the sky router it refreshes once every 10 secs so you know what you're seeing is accurate and upto date.

Obviously I'd assume pressing f5 on your current router would update the stats.

Hope you get my drift.

SO, DLM TURNED OFF,
SYNC OVER 14 MEG, 1 MEG UPLOAD,
WATCH AS THEY DO IT & MAKE SURE IT'S DONE BY CONSTANTLY WATCHING THE STATS FROM YOUR END
CHANGE WIRELESS CHANNEL TO 1 OR 6

As soon as it's done post your new stats up please !!

Don't take any of their rubbish about errors have been building up, the line can't handle it etc. It can.

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

Did all of the above. I was fortunate to not get through to a drone - this is the first time that I have ever spoken to Sky technical support and not been led - slowly - through the "plug into the test socket, change the filters" script.

He said "There are no caps on these lines".

Problem is you're on ADSL - g.dmt - not ADSL2+. There may not be any caps, but 8megs is the max on g.dmt.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

SO, DLM TURNED OFF,
SYNC OVER 14 MEG, 1 MEG UPLOAD,
WATCH AS THEY DO IT & MAKE SURE IT'S DONE BY CONSTANTLY WATCHING THE STATS FROM YOUR END
CHANGE WIRELESS CHANNEL TO 1 OR 6

OK. Home from work, unplugged the NetGear router and replaced it with the Sky router. Before connecting to the line, I did a hard-reset on the Sky router (pen in the reset hole at the back).

Fired up the browser on the wired interface and checked the stats. Much better figures being seen now (of course, I *should* have checked the NetGear router before I disconnected it, but never mind for now).

Stats now report:

System Up Time: 2:44:40
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 142267 196784 0 128 0 2:43:42
LAN 84624 68050 0 0 0 2:44:40
WLAN 123342 84534 0 0 156 2:44:13
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14580 kbps 767 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.5 db 15.0 db
Noise Margin 7.1 db 17.8 db


Upstream noise level has been hovering between 7.1 and 7.5, but the other figures have been consistent each time I have checked over the past 2-3 hours.

But.....

...it still feels like treacle...

Speedtest.net reports:
Ping: 109 ms
Downstream: 1.87 Mbps
Upstream: 0.62 Mbps

to the London Namesco server


So, I have a "14M" link now between me and the exchange, but to all intents and purposes it is less than 2M. I presume this is a bottleneck further on up the line. This is rather like me claiming that I have a 100M link (between my laptop and my router) - it means sweet FA in real, practical terms.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Problem is you're on ADSL - g.dmt

No evidence of that - upstream is not 448 Kbps.

Disconnect the wifi & take a speedtest to the London server via Ethernet

Post back please

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Disconnect the wifi & take a speedtest to the London server via Ethernet

Post back please

www.speedtest.net

Ping: 110 ms
Downstream: 1.71 Mbps
Upstream: 0.62 Mbps

Can you try a speedtest via Ethernet via a different computer.

I had a similar issue on a corrupted version of windows a while back

If the speed is slow at eg 2am it's very unlikely it's the ISP.

Certain malware slows down browsing too. I've had infections despite having anti virus

Do you have any peer to peer eg utorrent bittorrent or online backup software.

How old are both of your routers?

I have to say this is very very strange but there's got to be something causing it

It could be the ISP although I've never seen this kind of slowdown on sky LLU before as easynet has tonnes and tonnes of backhaul

It could be a fault too I guess although this usually causes instabilty and constant dropouts

Trying a different pc would really help here though. Eliminates your setup

Just to add if you have a smart phone connected to wifi eg iPhone ...download the speedtest app and run it right next to the router. Again London server

Any infections unlikely to spread to a phone

I'm not saying you're causing it, I very much doubt it but best to rule it out

After this if everythings still slow I have to agree it's not your fault!

So different pc via Ethernet and phone speedtest next to router if poss

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 19-Aug-11 22:20:23)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Problem is you're on ADSL - g.dmt

No evidence of that - upstream is not 448 Kbps.

G.DMT isn't limited to 448kbps (BTW does on their consumer products). I had 800kbps upload with Bulldog's 8meg service years ago, long before they launched ADSL2+ services.

I suspect the OP's problem sounds like a profile issue, something I'd expect more on a BTW service, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Sky (formerly) EasyNet network had something similar. Getting it fixed on a low-cost service's support might be tediously hard.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Can you try a speedtest via Ethernet via a different computer.

All previous results have been from a MacBook Pro running 10.6.8 and valid anti-virus software.

Running with a Windows 7 machine (Toshiba), with wired Ethernet I get:

Speedtest.net against Namesco in London
Ping: 55ms
Downstream: 1.64 Mbps
Upstream: 0.62 Mbps


Running the iPhone app on an iPad, again against Namesco London

Ping: 146ms
Downstream: 0.68 Mbps
Upstream: 0.61 Mbps


And all the while I have:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14478 kbps 767 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.0 db 15.0 db
Noise Margin 7.7 db 18.0 db

All tests run with no other machines turned on/connected.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I had a similar issue on a corrupted version of windows a while back

If the speed is slow at eg 2am it's very unlikely it's the ISP.

Will see if I can keep myself awake until then

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Certain malware slows down browsing too. I've had infections despite having anti virus

Do you have any peer to peer eg utorrent bittorrent or online backup software.

Nope. Nothing like that on my systems. All backup is local to USB-connected disks (no network traffic there) and I don't use torrents.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

How old are both of your routers?

Couldn't be certain. The Netgear one must be 4/5 years old and the Sky one must be at least 3 years old. I may be massively underestimating that too. Certainly the Sky router has a lower throughout than the Netgear but neither of them are getting what they should from the specified sync speed.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I have to say this is very very strange but there's got to be something causing it

It could be the ISP although I've never seen this kind of slowdown on sky LLU before as easynet has tonnes and tonnes of backhaul

It could be a fault too I guess although this usually causes instabilty and constant dropouts

Trying a different pc would really help here though. Eliminates your setup

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Problem is you're on ADSL - g.dmt

No evidence of that - upstream is not 448 Kbps.

G.DMT isn't limited to 448kbps (BTW does on their consumer products). I had 800kbps upload with Bulldog's 8meg service years ago, long before they launched ADSL2+ services.

I suspect the OP's problem sounds like a profile issue, something I'd expect more on a BTW service, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Sky (formerly) EasyNet network had something similar. Getting it fixed on a low-cost service's support might be tediously hard.

That's the thing, sky do not have any kind of profiling

They have dynamic line management but this acts by reducing the physical sync speed and setting no profile

The physical sync in this case is 14 mbps

& it must be ADSL 2 + now

I think around 10 meg is the max on g.dmt (could be wrong)

The speed you sync at is the speed you should get. No profiling involved.

So the 14 meg sync should go at 14mbps

Anyway now to reply to Andy...

All previous results have been from a MacBook Pro running 10.6.8 and valid anti-virus software.

Running with a Windows 7 machine (Toshiba), with wired Ethernet I get:

Speedtest.net against Namesco in London
Ping: 55ms
Downstream: 1.64 Mbps
Upstream: 0.62 Mbps


Running the iPhone app on an iPad, again against Namesco London

Ping: 146ms
Downstream: 0.68 Mbps
Upstream: 0.61 Mbps


And all the while I have:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14478 kbps 767 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.0 db 15.0 db
Noise Margin 7.7 db 18.0 db

All tests run with no other machines turned on/connected.

Right it's not your equipment. This is definite.

You have the sync, you should easily get the speed.

I'm also not convinced it's anything Sky is doing. If this was a BT connection I'd say 100% profile issue. SKY DO NOT HAVE PROFILING.

The sync speed is what you should get.

& To drop from 14mbps sync to 0.68mbps. Even with MASSIVE congestion it seems almost impossible. Especially on LLU!!

Will see if I can keep myself awake until then

Best of luck

Nope. Nothing like that on my systems. All backup is local to USB-connected disks (no network traffic there) and I don't use torrents.

Yep the fact you're using a Mac and windows and an ipad rules this out completely!!

Couldn't be certain. The Netgear one must be 4/5 years old and the Sky one must be at least 3 years old. I may be massively underestimating that too. Certainly the Sky router has a lower throughout than the Netgear but neither of them are getting what they should from the specified sync speed.

Right my two year old DG934G router from Sky which is basically a NETGEAR DG834Gv3 had a very similar issue to this. I had low speeds, couldn't even watch youtube on 480p.

I had a new router sent out by sky which is now Wireless N. So much better.

I put this down to using it 24/7 and never turning it off

Based on the fact that you've said the wireless is shocking on both routers and that they're both old I am going for this.

If one of them was brand new I'd be stuck...

I can get a 7mbps speedtest to my neighbours broadband and they're detached from us & though 5 walls.

Wireless should work quite well.

I think you should get a new router (it's about time anyway) and see where we stand then

It's the only thing left.

The connection has been holding which doesn't indicate a line fault or anything & such a high sync too indicates things are fine..

Sky give routers out for free if you explain that the wireless isn't working.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 20-Aug-11 00:11:11)

Post deleted by tommy_boi

Which router was this that they sent out to you, as they have just sent me a router out as my line is getting activated next week but i dont think its a Wireless-N one?.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Problem is you're on ADSL - g.dmt

No evidence of that - upstream is not 448 Kbps.

I didn't say anything about BT.

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14478 kbps 767 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.0 db 15.0 db
Noise Margin 7.7 db 18.0 db

Now you're on ADSL2+ - you can see your attenuation has increased (and your sync speed)

OK. Further update.

I've just been round to a neighbour in the next street and run some tests on his kit.

His router is reported a downstream of just 7002 kbps with Attenuation 30db and Noise Margin 15db (so I told him he could get better numbers if he phones up and complains )

Running the speedtest against London Namesco on his machine (wireless) gave me a downstream rate of 5.77 Mbps, which strikes me as pretty reasonable on a 7Mb link.

Running the speedtest against the same server on *my* laptop wired with Ethernet into his router gave me a downstream rate of 6.04 Mbps. So my laptop is perfectly capable of performing (as I would expect)

Coming back to my system with my laptop, I'm currently getting (on my supposed 14Mb link) 1.77 Mbps downstream. Having run it again, I get 2.28Mbps.

So, on a link that is syncing twice as fast, I'm getting half the throughput.

Interestingly, the profile in the speedtest suggests an initial burst of throughout then a complete fade out for the rest of the time.

I will phone customer services again and see where we can get this time.

Running the speedtest against London Namesco on his machine (wireless) gave me a downstream rate of 5.77 Mbps, which strikes me as pretty reasonable on a 7Mb link.

Is he also using Sky broadband? If so it seems very very unlikely that it's a congestion issue

Interestingly, the profile in the speedtest suggests an initial burst of throughout then a complete fade out for the rest of the time.

The fact that the initial burst occurs shows that the throughput is there.

It does the exact same thing if you suddenly pull out the ethernet cable during testing or if you lose wireless signal. It's asif the routers giving up.

What colour and brand is your Sky router & what model is your own NETGEAR router?

It could be that your netgear is a dg834g and the sky is also a rebranded dg834g, labelled dg934g. So essentially you could be testing with 2 same routers, both quite old, both full of dust buildup and both failing in the same way.

When the new router arrives we shall see. I am hoping it resolves things nicely.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 22-Aug-11 13:48:42)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Running the speedtest against London Namesco on his machine (wireless) gave me a downstream rate of 5.77 Mbps, which strikes me as pretty reasonable on a 7Mb link.

Is he also using Sky broadband? If so it seems very very unlikely that it's a congestion issue

He is - that's specifically why I asked him if I could give it a try.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Interestingly, the profile in the speedtest suggests an initial burst of throughout then a complete fade out for the rest of the time.

The fact that the initial burst occurs shows that the throughput is there.

It does the exact same thing if you suddenly pull out the ethernet cable during testing or if you lose wireless signal. It's asif the routers giving up.

Not sure what the peak initial burst is though (if it does show that the *full* throughout is there) but I agree that it looks as if the router is falling over part way through.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

What colour and brand is your Sky router & what model is your own NETGEAR router?

It could be that your netgear is a dg834g and the sky is also a rebranded dg834g, labelled dg934g. So essentially you could be testing with 2 same routers, both quite old, both full of dust buildup and both failing in the same way.

When the new router arrives we shall see. I am hoping it resolves things nicely.

The Netgear router is an 834g (from memory). IIRC the Sky router is a blue (definite) SAGEM version. That is it is definitely blue (I'm at work at the moment)

I am also hoping that a replacement router will resolve things. I am not enjoying the level of bolshiness I'm having to use in order to get Sky's customer support to sit up and take notice.

In reply to a post by AndyLaw:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Running the speedtest against London Namesco on his machine (wireless) gave me a downstream rate of 5.77 Mbps, which strikes me as pretty reasonable on a 7Mb link.

Is he also using Sky broadband? If so it seems very very unlikely that it's a congestion issue

He is - that's specifically why I asked him if I could give it a try.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Interestingly, the profile in the speedtest suggests an initial burst of throughout then a complete fade out for the rest of the time.

The fact that the initial burst occurs shows that the throughput is there.

It does the exact same thing if you suddenly pull out the ethernet cable during testing or if you lose wireless signal. It's asif the routers giving up.

Not sure what the peak initial burst is though (if it does show that the *full* throughout is there) but I agree that it looks as if the router is falling over part way through.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

What colour and brand is your Sky router & what model is your own NETGEAR router?

It could be that your netgear is a dg834g and the sky is also a rebranded dg834g, labelled dg934g. So essentially you could be testing with 2 same routers, both quite old, both full of dust buildup and both failing in the same way.

When the new router arrives we shall see. I am hoping it resolves things nicely.

The Netgear router is an 834g (from memory). IIRC the Sky router is a blue (definite) SAGEM version. That is it is definitely blue (I'm at work at the moment)

I am also hoping that a replacement router will resolve things. I am not enjoying the level of bolshiness I'm having to use in order to get Sky's customer support to sit up and take notice.

Having read this thread one thing that hasn't been properly tested is to see if the connection is suffering from packet loss ect, as this could affect throughput

so can you ping say bbc.co.uk or some other well known address such as google for at least a few thousand times to see if there is any indication that you are getting packet loss or not you could also ping the ip address immediately after your routers ip (hop2)

if you are only SMPF bb only it will most likely be something like this cr0.""""".uk.easynet.net if you get loss to that then the problem is local to yourself(exchange &you) if there is any pkt loss showing at other destinations then this could be an indication of congestion & or other network issues
(note the ******** is your connected exchange name ie STPRSTN samknows will show the abbreviation for your exchange )

Update:

The new router (which was not an N-router BTW) did not fix things. Sync speed still nicely stable at 14/15 Meg, real-world download speed resolutely stuck at 2 Meg.

Upload speed was fine at 0.62 on a sync speed of 0.76.

Spent lots of time going round Customer support, getting to tier 2, passing to Network Operations and then having them close the call without either doing anything or telling me that they had done so.

Eventually I made enough noise to someone with a bit of intelligence in Customer Solutions for her to try again. I continued to phone each day until I got them to commit to an engineer visit.

Finally got an engineer visit this afternoon.

He went through all his tests and was thoroughly perplexed. He'd never seen anything like it. I was SO relieved when the download speed on his laptop was every bit as bad as the throughput I've been seeing for the past year - I had visions of his laptop just working properly and me looking like an idiot.

He had to go through all his battery of tests, change the master socket etc. I kept explaining to him that it *must* be something in the exchange. Having gone through all the things he could test at this end, he agreed that a "lift and shift" (tie-pair swap) was the only thing that he could do further but he needed permission from Sky to do it. He headed off.

Got a call from him about an hour later - he'd replaced the card that I was plugged into in the sky kit in the exchange.

I am now syncing at 10M down and 0.6 up. More importantly, I'm now getting 8.6M down real world speed. I can actually use the BBC iplayer!! I am much happier now.

I will phone customer support again and get my sync speeds upped on both counts later in the week when things have had time to settle down.