Test socket not working?

I've been having some trouble with my line, its making some crackling noises and not really sure what's wrong (internet barely connects all day but when it gets dark it works, albeit slower) so I thought I would try the test socket as Sky will get me to do it anyway.

I have a filtered faceplate on the master socket, so I just plug the modem cable into the faceplate. So I took it off and used a micro filter and plugged the modem cable into it and that into the test socket. Phone then says Check phone line and there's no dial tone. Eventually think perhaps I need to put another micro filter on the extension socket too, so I put one on it but nothing changes.

So I don't know what's happening? is it to do with my fault? Or is something else wrong? So I need a converter for my modem cable to take it from the small square connection to the larger rectangle connection so it fits in the test socket?

How sure are you that the line comes into the house behind this socket?

The wiring may be odd. Has the test socket ever working.

On adaptor for adsl a microfilter is beat bet. The sky modem should have had one with it

When you remove the faceplate it disconnects the phone. This is correct.

Presuming the "filtered faceplate" has two sockets, one for "Phone" and the other for "Modem", do you normally have two cables plugged in to it?

If "Yes", then when you remove the "filtered faceplate", replacing it with a "micro filter" straight in to the now-exposed Test Socket, did you plug BOTH cables in to the corresponding sockets in that "micro-filter"?

If you plugged only the "modem" cable in to the "micro-filter", you have not connected the phone side.

I don't know the full ins and outs of the SKY arrangements; but have you tried the "Quiet Line" Test, plugging preferably the simplest CORDED phone directly into the Test Socket, and ringing 17070, Option 2; and retrying with a micro-filter plugged in to the Test Socket, and that phone plugged in to the micro-filter Phone Socket?

Particularly if you hear noise on the second of those tests, you should report it to SKY if your phone line rental is "bundled" with SKY, otherwise to your phone-line provider.

The noise can be "snap, crackle and pop", humming, intermittent, continuous, tones etc - anything but "QUIET".

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"So I need a converter for my modem cable to take it from the small square connection to the larger rectangle connection so it fits in the test socket?"

The micro-filter does that for you.

The filtered faceplate is simply a dimensionally larger and differently shaped micro-filter, carrying out exactly the same functions as your plug-in micro-filter.

Pretty sure it is the main socket, the other extension socket is just a small socket. I think the test socket has worked before yes.

I seem to remember before we got the filtered faceplate (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150599757148) it would need 2 micro filters plugged in, one on the extension socket too (we have the phone connected to that one) with the main socket we just have the router plugged in. So I tried putting the 2nd micro filter on the extension socket but no change. Both micro filters came with Sky modem.

One strange thing is last night it stopped connecting about 11:05 which is around the time it stopped connecting the night before too, it only starts connecting around 7 (not sure exactly)

Our broadband has always disconnected when it rains too, don't know if that is related.

Is there any type of interference that can affect a broadband connection (not wireless signal, I tried turning it off as I connect wired but made no difference)

On a side note if I ordered fibre would they send an engineer to connect it up (so they could fix phone line too!)

First time I rang Sky he did a line check and he said it looks OK but could see from router logs something was wrong. He wanted me to do the test socket thing then but I didn't have the micro filters on hand.

Second time I rang Sky I had tried connecting it to the test socket before I rang, it wasn't working but rang them anyway, gave them my mobile number to ring me back so she could do another line check but giffgaff (mobile network) was down! so had to cancel it

Third time lucky. Is there anyway you can be put through to an engineer quickly rather than the phone support?

As ekiedoo says, just connect a corded phone to the test socket and nothing else.

OK did a bit more investigating. Yeah the filtered faceplate has a modem and phone socket, just the modem is connected to it. Then the telephone plugs into an extension (nothing we did ourselves must have been put in by BT sometime in the past) in another room. Normally we just plug the phone straight into the extension, no micro filter.

I got my corded phone out and had modem plugged into the micro filter and then plugged the corded phone into the same micro filter. I got a dial tone but still crackling. So then I disconnected the phone in the other room from the extension socket and it still had crackling.

I rang up the 17070 number it thinks its fine, was 3.5-3.8, was about 4.2 first time but might of been due to background noise. Rang it multiple times (hope it doesn't cost!) with and without micro filter and with and without other phone connected in other room. Some times it was better than others but always made the crackling, the robot always said the line was OK though, even when I heard crackling.

Then I tested my corded phone in the extension socket and theres no dial tone, with and without the micro filter on the main socket. Yet there is a dialtone when the faceplate is back in place (maybe the faceplate has wiring for the extension?)

In reply to a post by MikeL:

Yet there is a dialtone when the faceplate is back in place (maybe the faceplate has wiring for the extension?)

The wiring to the extension "should" be run from the faceplate so when the faceplate is removed from the master socket the wiring to the extension is disconnect. It is this wiring which means that an extension does not require a filter.

Rang up sky again, they ran another line test, this time he did say there were problems with the line, got me to remove faceplate and everything from sockets, came back the same so he booked an engineer for tomorrow!

Thinking back I think something like this happened before but it resolved itself, I think we had an engineer booked that time (but was for the next week or something) too but for some reason they thought we had cancelled it, but we never did.

Just hope it can be fixed! Hope they can fix the disconnects when it rains too!

Yeah that makes sense, thanks.

"Is there any type of interference that can affect a broadband connection (not wireless signal, I tried turning it off as I connect wired but made no difference)"

YES, anything that would make an AM radio station go pop, crackle etc can affect your broadband. So from Plasma TV to a treadmill, to a milk float to a thunder storm or security light

if rain is causing problems, then the drying out joint will behave different and as nights are cooling you might be seeing the effect of condensation/mist.

Internet just came back online at 4 minutes to 6, been up 21 minutes now. We don't have a plasma TV or treadmill, milk float probably goes past in the early morning, security light has been there forever its on side rather than front door where line comes in.

I can't think of anything new we had over the weekend that could be causing it.

We had a phone engineer come around once, I can't remember why now though, but he opened a little box inside our house and stripped some wires as he said there was a bit of corrosion on them (I had asked him about why our broadband goes down when it rains, he said he knew nothing about broadband but had a look at that little box) this was about 9 months to a year ago probably, it didn't fix the rain problem. I didn't really notice any increased stability from it either.

Evening MikeL

I have just done the Quiet Test on 17070, Option 2 - Apart from the line being absolutely quiet, there was the occasional phrase "Quiet Test" - no numbers mentioned etc.

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Is the faceplate completely free when you remove it from the Test/Master Socket, ie there should be no wires etc restraining or connected to the faceplate (other than those plugged in conventionally in its front/normally exposed face)?

The extension socket in the other room should be totally dead when the faceplate is removed. "Nothingz"

Is that "extension" socket a proper, wall mounted, fixed socket; or is it a "loose-on-the-end-of-a-cable, trip-you-up" type.

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Can you see if the outside line is coming directly in to the back of the Test/Master Socket from the exchange, eg via a hole to the outside world?

(Assuming the "extension" socket is a proper, wall-mounted one, check it also, in case the outside line has been taken directly in to it.)

The reason I ask is that it may be that the outside wire has been taken directly to the "extension", and wiring taken wrongly from that "extension" to the Test/Master Socket.

It would work; but is not the correct way to wire phones and modems within the house.

Also the noise may be arising in that "extension", rather than in the outside wiring back to the exchange.

Evening Eckiedoo

Hmm that's strange, when I rang it and chose 2 I got some American sounding automated woman telling me to say a phrase over and over (something about the moon and stars) again between two beeps, I did that then she says your line seems to be OK, I measured 3.5 (something) and I forget the rest.

There's some wires connected to the faceplate, at least one must be for the extension I guess. I had to use a tool to push down the wires into the back of the faceplate when I fitted it a few yrs. ago.

Yeah extension socket is a proper socket.

I had a look at the wiring, its very confusing, it seems to be coming from the ceiling of the front room, along top of door frame, into the hall way and into a little green box, then another wire comes out and appears to be going to the extension, but there's also wire going to the master socket but I can't see where that is coming from at all. An engineer will be here tomorrow hopefully so I will keep you apprised of what he/she says.

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Oct-13 22:37:13)

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

I have just done the Quiet Test on 17070, Option 2 - Apart from the line being absolutely quiet, there was the occasional phrase "Quiet Test" - no numbers mentioned etc.

Easy peasy . You're doing QLT on BT, but OP has a Sky LLU line. Hence why I refrained from suggesting QLT to the opening post as I am not familiar with Sky's QLT.

BTW: It would help if you would show your ISP somewhere in your profile, but I guess it is EE by searching your posts.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You're doing QLT on BT, but OP has a Sky LLU line. Hence why I refrained from suggesting QLT to the opening post as I am not familiar with Sky's QLT.

The closest thing is 17070 option 4. It tells you to be quiet and listens for noise on the line for a few seconds, and then when it's finished it tells you how much noise it heard.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

The closest thing is 17070 option 4

Not here on BTR line. 4 for 'Fast Cleanse' -> 1 for ' Cab', 2 for 'Pillow', blah blah ...

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

The closest thing is 17070 option 4

Not here on BTR line. 4 for 'Fast Cleanse' -> 1 for ' Cab', 2 for 'Pillow', blah blah ...

Since you are not familiar with Sky's line test facilities, I was letting you know what they are.

OIC! As you never said closest to what, I took it logically to be closest to what I am familiar with.

Ta, but since I'm not on Sky I can't dial it.

Correct, it is EE/Orange etc.

Not having a SKY-operated line, I am not familiar with the details - must try the two SKY lines in the near family!

Morning MikeL

It seems that on SKY-connected lines, Option 4 corresponds to Option 2 on most other lines, so retry the 17070, selecting Option 4.

Must do a Search later for more details.

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"but there's also wire going to the master socket but I can't see where that is coming from at all"

I appreciate the difficulties as my own Master Socket is at the back of a cupboard. All of the outside wiring is underground, so impossible to spot in normal circumstances.

So the Master Socket wiring simply disappears in a void under the front hall, towards the front door, where the wire probably passes through the foundations beside the slightly more obvious electricity supply.

Both remain underground, probably mainly below the footpaths.

Can you see your phone line anywhere on the outside of your house?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

OIC! As you never said closest to what, I took it logically to be closest to what I am familiar with.

Ah, you were thinking in reverse, that I was saying the closest thing to Sky's QLT on WLR3 is 17070 option 4.

Likewise to you (in reverse), I can't dial the WLR3 line test from a Sky line, which is a shame because the WLR3 QLT is handy, as is the ringback test which Sky doesn't have.

Evening Eckie

Waited in all day for the engineer to turn up, nothing... Since about 5pm though we have been connected so I don't know if this is just a fluke or perhaps they worked on the line without even coming into our house? Most likely they just never came.

I did actually do a test with number 4, I think it came back as OK, because I don't remember any test coming back as faulty. I will try it again if and when the line noise comes back, I'm guessing now at this moment we have a stable internet connection we have no line noise.

"I had a look at the wiring, its very confusing, it seems to be coming from the ceiling of the front room, along top of door frame, into the hall way and into a little green box, then another wire comes out and appears to be going to the extension, but there's also wire going to the master socket but I can't see where that is coming from at all. An engineer will be here tomorrow hopefully so I will keep you apprised of what he/she says."

Could it be that the"little green box" is the in-house termination unit for the outside line from the exchange, with screw-type terminations inside it?

Try taking any cover off, slightly slacken the (wire) terminating screws, if any; spray with an electrical lubricant such as WD40; then tighten the screws. That may reduce or eliminate the noise.

At present, it looks as though the installation is an "ancient" one, crudely modified relatively "recently", to accommodate Broadband and a relocation of the phone.

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"it seems to be coming from the ceiling of the front room"

Take a look at the outside wall/s of the "front room", looking for the phone wires/cable coming from the exchange - at present it sounds as though they are overhead, towards a telephone pole.

If really "ancient", two separate thin wires, running from "white" pot-shaped insulators back to a pole probably, with similar insulators.

Alternatively, it could be a single cable, with a U-shaped "drip loop" formed by the cable, just below a metal wall bracket.

On the other hand, if it is an underground cable, it may run up the wall, to the entry hole, to the "front room", although this does seem unlikely.

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Particularly if the line from the exchange is "overhead", the failure when raining may be due to overflowing gutters or similar, the water falling on to or penetrating the wiring and causing partial shorts.

Electrical lubricant??????

WD 40 - generally available.

Electrolube - from specialist suppliers such as Maplin.

Do NOT use WD40 in place of electrical cleaner. It will leave a residue that will attract dust and lower resistance between adjacent conductors

Whilst it is possible, all of those lubricants can and do retain dust due to their very nature - BUT is that likely in the very enclosed space of the "green box" and the low voltages involved?


Incidentally, I have used WD 40 to prevent the accumulation of dust, birds' droppings etc on the very exposed external surface of a sky-light window.

It has stayed virtually clean over a period of 5 years, compared to previously - reduces/avoids the need to get up on the roof to clean it!

I can see no benefit in coating conductors in mineral oil

A partially-sealed space, such as a terminal box, tends to be subject to the ingress of water vapour etc, leading potentially to (further) corrosion of the conductors and screws, from electrolysis and other chemical actions.

I have seen conductors literally fall apart as a result of such corrosion, not often; but it does happen.

And there can be a lot of water vapour in a house, given particularly the use of showers in recent years.

Mineral oils generally adhere to the metals involved (and the insulation, made from mineral oil as a rule), very much reducing the chances of this happening. Also those oils generally do not absorb water.

(Other non-mineral oils tend to rot quite quickly, the break-down products themselves giving rise to corrosion of the conductors etc. Most non-mineral oils absorb water, aggravating the situation.)

I suggest that you read through the following thread, noting particularly the cause of the OP's problems over a period of three years; and the gratifying results, both technically and monetary -

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/4260951-s...

I recommend a switch cleaner available in Maplins rather than mineral oil.

Best to cure the symptom of ingress rather than try and force the water out later.

It's a 4 page thread! What's the point you are trying to make? Just one sentence will do

In my many years as a comms engineer, (often in harsh salt laden environments), the only time WD40 was used was for drying out distributor caps on vehicles prior to cleaning with a solvent and then painting with a varnish. Use it an electronic kit and I'd have been down the Job Centre

Very difficult to achieve on a commercial item.

Sort out the internal wiring first,as it does not seem to be normal; and if the line noises persist, call in the ISP, SKY, hence BTO.

(The one sentence answer)
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Alwall - Thanks for your experiences with WD40 etc - I have not encountered such problems on "electronic kit", as I have used it mainly on the generally robust terminations as found in Junction Boxes and the like, plus other non-electronic items..

I have not used it on in/active electronics; and was not advising that.

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The other thread clearly demonstrates the need to have those fundamental problems attended to first; and what can be achieved by doing so.

Edited by deleted (Sun 06-Oct-13 21:23:26)

Hi all

Had the engineer around here today, first one came, then he had to call for another as he wanted to go up a pole, but the pole didn't have a safety check on it so had to call another with a cherry picker. They decided to put in a new wire from the pole to our house as he said the wiring was ancient, took them 3 hours to do it all, will cost Sky probably £300, though they have had enough money from us over the years to cover that!

Haven't had one disconnect since and I'm fairly sure its rained today (wasn't in to confirm) so everything looks OK.

They put the wire straight in behind the socket, so we no longer need the "little green box" we had, whatever that was for! (I thought he mentioned something about earthing in regards to it)

Now have a BT openreach socket, the very back of the socket is still original, then the bt openreach and then my faceplate filter (he didn't change it).

Couldn't hear any noise on the line and its connected at our maximum DLM is giving us for this month, hopefully we will go up a Mb or two now.

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Oct-13 23:34:58)

If it's stable for a few 100 hours DLM might re run, you can get an SNR as low as 3db if it's literally never dropping. Trick is to never turn the router off to get the best speeds. The Sky Hubs very stable so that shouldn't be a problem.

Morning MikeL

Good result.

Just a reminder for the future, although some may think it is stating the obvious - if you ever take the Faceplate off to access the Test Socket, all of the other phone/modem sockets in the house should be disconnected by that simple action.

If this does not happen, your internal wiring would still not be normal.

However, by your description, the BTOR lads appear to have corrected that.



Also with the ADSL Splitters and the Faceplate, the small Modem/ADSL Socket is the "Straight-Through" connection without any filtering; whilst the larger Phone Socket is the filtered Phone (+ Fax etc) connection only.

This always seems contradictory.

The first socket, the Test Socket, is a "normal" Phone Socket in design etc; and has all of the signals, Phone, BB, Fax etc on it.

Yet all of the other "Phone" Sockets downstream of it only have the Phone etc - and no BB.

And the smaller, downstream, Modem/ADSL Sockets have the full set of signals, Phone etc plus BB!

Hi Eckiedoo

Its going well so far, Its been raining and it hasn't disconnected. I was a bit disappointed to see it disconnected last night at 2:33am and went from 4mb to 3mb. Not really sure why that's happened, maybe because its barely been connecting and connecting at 0.4mb it (DLM?) still doesn't realise the line is better yet.

I decided to open up the faceplate filter and check he hadn't reattached the bell/ring wire but he hadn't, so I rebooted the router and am now going to leave it now and see what happens. I want to get 5mb (our record is about 5.6mb or 5.8mb) and then I will be happy enough. We have been stable at that speed before. Now our line attenuation stays stable at 57db downstream too, normally we would get random disconnections and it would either go up or down by 0.5.

Yeah I have realised now why the telephone on the extension socket didn't work now when I had the faceplate off

OK thanks, I will try that.