New Fibre Install - Sky modem

Can someone tell me whic router Sky supply for new fibre subscribers? Is this a pure router which only accepts PPoE from the BT supplied modem, or do they currently supply an all-in-one modem/router box?

This will be on a new install - I think there's an existing phone line which requires re-connection, but otherwise there's no existing broadband of any variety

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

do they currently supply an all-in-one modem/router box?

SR 102 all in one - end user does self install like ADSL with micro filters.

All-in-one: http://www.trustedreviews.com/sky-hub-2013-review

Thanks for the link. Doesn't strike me as one of the best boxes around - single band wireless and no gigabit ethernet doesn't really cut it.

I don't know if one the 'range boosters' will come with it, but I'm thinking a Powerline dLan kit - Devolo/Netgear etc - might offer a useful improvement, as the telephone socket is well away from where the computer will be.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Thanks for the link. Doesn't strike me as one of the best boxes around - single band wireless and no gigabit ethernet doesn't really cut it.

Its pretty amazingly awful compared to the competition. My friends who are on Sky have all turned off the WiFi and fitted another box (TPLink are cheap) with dual band N and Gigabit ethernet ports alongside.

Its pretty amazingly awful compared to the competition.

Sums it up pretty well I'd be OK with transferring the sign-on details and stuff to another router, but I'm inclined to think Powerline plugs might offer an easier solution. They are more or less completely non-techie, so plug n'play is pretty much what they want.

Also I imagine that Sky set it up for remote troubleshooting, which would mean they have to swap routers in the event of a fault.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

I don't know if one the 'range boosters' will come with it, but I'm thinking a Powerline dLan kit - Devolo/Netgear etc - might offer a useful improvement, as the telephone socket is well away from where the computer will be.

It doesn't come with a range booster, but it's 2.4 Ghz which generally has decent range compared to 5 Ghz, depending on local wifi congestion. Both powerline and range boosters are decent options for extending coverage.

Thanks for the tip, but I think they may be in a fairly congested area. Probably best to wait and see. Anyone any experience with any of the Powerline kits? Devolo appear to have a decent reputation but I'm open to suggestions.

In terms of reliable and do the job Devolo are generally the best

Kits like Wi-Fi Starter Kit £63 gives you Ethernet socket at the remote location plus a wireless access point.

As a rule for FTTC type speeds you want the 500 Mbps or faster rated Home Plug kit.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

As a rule for FTTC type speeds you want the 500 Mbps or faster rated Home Plug kit.

Thanks Andrew, I was thinking that if they did have them, Gigabit ethernet would be the way to go.

I'll see how they get on with the basic kit first before I suggest something else - as I say they're definitely not 'techie' minded.

I only have slow FTTC 18-20 Mbps and an SR102 and its 2.4GHz range is actually pretty good and the router is very much a turn on and forget about it device.

For those running media servers on their LAN or with full speed FTTC I can understand a need for better

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

As a rule for FTTC type speeds you want the 500 Mbps or faster rated Home Plug kit.

Thanks Andrew, I was thinking that if they did have them, Gigabit ethernet would be the way to go.

The number reported by homeplug devices (200/500/650) is not comparable to wired ethernet or broadband connections, its similar to WiFi where you get a real world of about half the theoretical.

No homeplug device transfers at Gigabit, but they have gigabit ports on the boxes because they go faster than 100mbps.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I only have slow FTTC 18-20 Mbps and an SR102 and its 2.4GHz range is actually pretty good and the router is very much a turn on and forget about it device.

Depends where you live but in many suburban streets 2.4 GHz is already problematic due to number of devices being used. So in fact 2.4 GHz has "too much range". 5 GHz on the N protocol with good antennas or even AC with beamforming help much more than a lower freq when there are only 13 channels :-/

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

In terms of reliable and do the job Devolo are generally the best

I'd disagree - TP-Link stuff has been rock solid. Devolo seems to burn out (literally) if on 24/7 for more than 18 months or so. And I've seen numerous such cases.

The numbers relate to the theoretical maximum bit rate within the homeplug network.

For example if you have 2 AV500 plugs with 2 PC's both copying large files the max theoretical throughput seen by each PC is 250Mbps. Now increase this to 4 plugs and 4 PC's doing the same and the max theoretical throughput seen by each PC is 125Mbps.

In reality I've never seen more than 15MBps just copying one file to my fileserver over homeplugs compared to around 34MBps copying over a hardwired gigabit network.

In reply to a post by simon194:

In reality I've never seen more than 15MBps just copying one file to my fileserver over homeplugs compared to around 34MBps copying over a hardwired gigabit network.

I did some speedtests a couple of years ago using FTP protocol and two fast laptops (with SSD disk). On Gigabit ethernet single switch the speed was around 800mbps - mostly I assume due to caching.

On HomePlug AV 200 the actual throughput was around 55mbps, and on AV 500 the throughput was around 80 mbps. These were homeplugs in adjacent sockets and only ones in the home. WiFi was worse.

Most people don't care as they just want their internet connection to work and be consistent, which is where homeplug wins over WiFi.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Most people don't care as they just want their internet connection to work and be consistent, which is where homeplug wins over WiFi.

That's pretty well it. They've now got SKY installed and working - at least on the ground floor. I'll give a week or so to bed in and then we'll then see how WiFi works in the kid's bedrooms.

If it's all OK then job done, if not I'll take a look at HomePlugs. I've noted the comment regarding Devolo's burning out so I might take a look at the TP-Link models. I doubt ultimate speed will bother them, but I think some degree of future proofing would be good.

Thanks to all for the comments and help.

I have been using Netgear Powerline extenders ( PLE ) for about one year. The only ( ever so slight ) prob I have had is occassionally the line drops between the PLE and the modem. It simply requires switching off the PLE at the comp end and switching it back on immediately. I think this is more to do with the wiring in my house, which is fairly old.
Speed wise exactly the same as the modem.
Tip: when setting them up try and use a double wall connection , so that they are side by side.

Make sure you turn on encryption. With mine I was able to get into a neighbours LAN, which also had a sky connection, so with the default password i was able to access their router as well.

The Develo ones I have run a lot more stable than the netgears they replaced and have been up for months now. The peak speed is about 600, but they mostly chat to each other around 470.