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Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Tue 20-Aug-19 14:36:02
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Hi

As regards in wall access points unless you have them high up on the wall furniture is going to get in the way a lot of the time and high up on the wall is far more obtrusive than on the ceiling IMHO. Ceiling mounted is also far less susceptible to damage than low down wall mounted.


Quite agree, also the wall access point is usually optimised for sending it's signal in-front of it, that might be okay where it's installed specifically to provide coverage only in front of it, but might not suit so well inside the home where its needed to provide all round coverage.

Regards

Phil
Standard User quadrophenic
(newbie) Wed 21-Aug-19 10:44:03
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: G1NZO] [link to this post]
 
I am using the Omada range from Tp-Link. They are pretty good, very similar to the ubiquiti range but a bit cheaper. The EAP225 gives good wifi range and speeds. PoE powered using the included injector or through your PoE switch.
They can be run using the TP-Link controller software running on a PC or they can be configured in standalone mode without any controller.

You will need to be running the controller if you want features such as mesh or fast roaming but for a single AP setup it will be fine as a standalone.

Have to admit they arent as good looking as the ubiquiti range though
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Wed 21-Aug-19 10:57:51
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
Standard recommendation on Unifi is to disable fast roaming as it can cause problems with clients which don't support 802.11r. As such, the roaming is indeed handled by the client.


If there is no 802.11r/802.11k involved then it's not roaming. It's the signal has gone from access point A, let me try and reconnect, look there is access point B I can attach to. That is not roaming.

Roaming is where the device and/or access point goes you are getting a bit far away, here is a list of alternative access points to try let me speed up the connection for you and hand over before you drop the connection on the first access point giving you a seamless connection, even your IP address should not change. This would be very difficult to do on a device unless you had an additional radio that wa constantly searching for other access points with which it could connect to that had a stronger signal. Even then you would not get the seamless handover with IP address remaining the same.

The in wall APs are no more susceptible to damage than sockets at the same height. I suspect that you've never actually tried one. I was surprised at how good a performance I got when I first used one at normal socket level - even surrounded by furniture. High up access points are nice but aren't always acceptable from an aesthetic point of view and aesthetics are very important to many.


Yes they are they have a much greater profile than a socket which is unlikely to extend beyond the skirting and are no where near as robust as a socket.

You also seem to have missed the bit about the law requiring a whole bunch of ceiling mounted, interlinked smoke, heat and carbon monoxide detectors be fitted in every home in Scotland by 1st February 2021. Though why anyone would want to live in a home without that is somewhat beyond me (death rate in homes in the event of a fire without working smoke alarms is over twice that with). As such one or two extra smoke alarm devices on the ceiling is for the majority of people - meh, and like I said you have zero choice on the aesthetics in Scotland. Unless you happen to live in a Category A listed building with some ornate plaster ceiling and can get an exception and there are only 3707 of those in total in the whole of Scotland so hardly relevant.

Most people don't spend time looking at the ceiling and most ceiling's are white with the ceiling mounted devices also being white they have a tendency to blend in so you really do not notice them day to day.


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Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 21-Aug-19 11:24:04
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Most people don't spend time looking at the ceiling and most ceiling's are white with the ceiling mounted devices also being white they have a tendency to blend in so you really do not notice them day to day.


This is true. On our landing we have a smoke detector, access point (the ZyXel which looks like a second smoke detector), internal burglar alarm sounder, a motion sensor for the lights, and tucked in the corner a PIR for the alarm, with the lamp pendant and shade hanging from the ceiling as well in the middle! It's pretty busy with stuff and I was a bit paranoid it looked a bit over the top.

So when people visit or we have guests stay at some point I've ended up asking what they think about all the devices attached to the landing ceiling, they look up, and say, "Oh never noticed", this is despite the access point having an LED and the PIR LED flashing as people walk through.

People don't tend to look up, if they do, they really don't take any notice of things on the ceiling, given it's pretty common in homes and offices to see things like that attached.

Regards

Phil
Standard User gary333
(member) Wed 21-Aug-19 11:36:35
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
I think like you say if you're going to have to have smoke alarms in your living room then an extra one isn't going to make much difference.

I wouldn't want ugly smoke alarms or AP's hanging off my living room ceiling though. In Scotland many properties have high ceilings which would have less visual impact. With most houses in England built within the last 50 years having ceilings around 235cm - 238cm then these boxes are a bit of an eyesore.

I think this is the reason by BT Whole Home have feet so they can be put in a corner somewhere and not look too out of place.

I don't mind on alarms/AP's on landing, office, kitchens as these are working rooms, but in rooms i relax in like bedrooms and living rooms I personally wouldn't want to see them. I've been looking at Nest smoke alarms. Not because I want the features, just because they actually looks relatively pleasant.
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 21-Aug-19 21:55:46
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
If there is no 802.11r/802.11k involved then it's not roaming. It's the signal has gone from access point A, let me try and reconnect, look there is access point B I can attach to. That is not roaming.
I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my basic rookie mistake.

In my defence I'd point out that it was just something I read on the internet and it's an easy error to make. Even the Wi-Fi Alliance® gets it wrong;
How does a client roam?

The decision to roam from a connected access point to a new access point is generally the responsibility of the wireless client device. The roaming algorithms used by wireless client devices vary from vendor to vendor, but almost always involve the evaluation of the received signal strength indicator (RSSI). As a user moves away from the connected AP, the signal degrades. The client compares the received signal strength to a pre-defined threshold and determines if a roam is required. Once the signal drops below this threshold, the wireless client performs an off-channel scan, scanning all available channels for a candidate AP, selects one with acceptable signal strength, and completes the roaming process by connecting or associating to the new AP. Some more sophisticated clients utilize additional parameters such as AP neighbor lists or capacity load on an AP to help optimize the roaming process.
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
[in wall access points] have a much greater profile than a socket which is unlikely to extend beyond the skirting and are no where near as robust as a socket.
I see what you mean. Should the sockets go on the ceiling as well if things that stick out are going to be plugged into them?

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
You also seem to have missed the bit about the law requiring a whole bunch of ceiling mounted, interlinked smoke, heat and carbon monoxide detectors be fitted in every home in Scotland by 1st February 2021.
Forgive me. I didnít overlook it, I ignored it as I wrongly assumed that Scottish law didnít apply in the French Riviera. Do you know if this will change after Brexit?

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User G1NZO
(regular) Thu 22-Aug-19 00:15:10
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to all those who took the trouble to respond

We are going with 2 x Ubiquiti UAP AC LITE
They are quite slim line and not so large

Is there any reason why they should not be placed near to Smoke detectors which are also ceiling mounted
They are AC Powered Hardwired units and i wonder if they being so close to the Ubiquite would cause any issues
2 units will give total coverage within the building
Internet access to the Garden will be hardwired to the Wooden garden building on CAT 6
Then a further outdoor POE Ubiquiti AP will be installed

Thanks for your help once done will post results
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Thu 22-Aug-19 08:06:41
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: G1NZO] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I would try and put as much distance as possible between the smoke detector and access point, say at least a metre. If they are very close that could affect the performance of each unit due RF interference. Certainly the access point is going to work better away from any other electrical devices.

The AC-Lite I would not recommend having had one. Build quality is poor, it's just snaps together like a cheap toy, no screws! The LSIs run very hot and the heat sinking is nothing more than a foam heat transfer pad between the back of the board and the plastic case. Plastic doesn't make a good heatsink! On my unit, the heatsink pads weren't even placed correctly behind one of the chips leaving an LSI to bake. There were also issues with devices connecting reliably, and the blue LED is over-driven to make it bright enough behind the light pipe ring that after a year it had noticeably dimmed, okay just a cosmetic issue but shows the cost cutting on these units as they should have used 2 or 3 LEDs and run them at a lower current.

This is why I ended up replacing the AC-Lite with the XyZel NWA1123, similar price but a considerable difference in build quality, anyone comparing the two in the hand would immediately understand my comments.

Just my opinion on having compared the two, there will be people that swear by the Uni-Fi products and use them in their thousands.

Edit: There are some images here of the foam pad heat sinks against the plastic case and instructions on how to "unclip" the case. https://community.ui.com/questions/How-do-you-physic...

Some images on Google do show AC-Pros with metal heat-sinks now on the chips rather than the attempt to use plastic as a heat-sink. Or they might have been retro fitted by the owner I don't know.

Regards

Phil

Edited by PhilipD (Thu 22-Aug-19 08:15:03)

Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 22-Aug-19 09:41:16
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: G1NZO] [link to this post]
 
I don't think you should have any problems with that setup, it's a good choice. The only smaller ceiling AP is the NanoHD - which is quite a bit more expensive but very nicely built. Good luck with the installation and let us know how you get on.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 22-Aug-19 15:34:38
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Re: AP for useless SKY Wifi


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
You need clearance for air flow to the smoke detector, but 50cm should be plenty. If the smoke detector has issues with RF interference from the access point it is a PoS that is not compliant with the standards.

I would say looking at the online images the AC-Lite is a lot sleeker than the XyZel. I can't comment on the AC-Lite as I got the AC-LR which is well built and does not run hot (at least on the external of the case). Then again it's on the ceiling how robust does it need to be? The main reason for the LR over the Lite for me was the 3x3 radio instead of the 2x2. Anyway my AC-LR has been on now for over two years without a hickup.

I would also take issue with the idea that snapping together makes for a poor build quality. For example plastic clips don't vibrate loose like screws.
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