Hi Em

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the DPA that prevents a company (or individual) discussing matters with a third party providing they have the permission of the person to whom the data is about. How else would agents and solicitors and other advisers eg financial be able to operate.

If I am wrong I would like to know the precise clause(s) of the DPA that TalkTalk believes apply. The other question that is frequently asked when discussing the legal risks is.... even if it is a technical breach (and I am not conceding that here) then who is going to take the point? And if they do what would the defence be?

This is a similar debate that takes place over Health & Safety laws - it has become a commonly but wrongly held view that the HASAWA precludes many things when in fact it does no such thing but if enough people believe it does then it seems to get enshrined.

I appreciate you are merely reporting back on what your procedures say but my point is that there is an 80+ yr old infirm chap at the end of this wrangle that deserves to be treated with respect and courtesy. Charges can just as easily be waived as made but it requires someone in authority to consider the matter properly. The contractual position may well be one thing but that doesn't necessarily mean it is right and just.

Please be assured this is not a rant against you - indeed your posts have remained polite throughout - it is against a 'system' that appears to be intransigent.

Hi Len,

There are indeed circumstances where others can act on behalf of a customer but this needs to be pre-arranged. We would either need to have received proof of power of attorney or passwords would need to be added to an account that can be quoted to gain access to the account. Password access is read only i.e. we can give out information but we can not action changes, and even with a password there are certain elements of the account that can not be discussed with anyone other than the account holder. We will continue to offer as much help and assistance as possible either on these forums or via the TalkTalk forums for none account holders but we are limited by the law and internal processes/interpritation of legislation.

Cheers
Em x

In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:

Hi Investmentbanker,

There are two different numbers used for sales and new line instalation customers. The sales agents can not arrange a new line instalation. If you call this number and ask for the service to be migrated from an active BT line to TalkTalk then that is exactly what you would get. The team who take calls on this number can not arrange engineers - they can run n availability test and they would providethe new lines number if the property was showing as a cable service or the line was not already active

The new lines number can only arrange new line instalation and not a migration from another provider. They take the address details and check to see if there is a service that has been previously activated and stopped or if a whole new line instalation is required. The engineer fee is the same for both services with TalkTalk. The necesity for an engineer visit is verified by BT Openreach. If you called the number for a new instalation (as you state you did in your last post despite saying you did not in an earlier post) then your "client" has got the service you requested. If the line was live on BTs network already there was no requirement for you to order a new line as the property already had an active service and a migraton from BT to TalkTalk could have been arranaged if the correct sales channel had been used.

You may also wish to inform your client that a new line instalation comes with a 24 month contract term and not an 18 month contract as per migrations from another provider.

As per my previous post relating to data protection I can answer general questions for you in relation to this matter but I can not discuss account specifics with anyone other than the named account holder. The named account holder is welcome to register and post at www.talktalkmembers.com/forums should they wish for us to look into this further. Upon a request from the named account holder we can review the sales call to see exactly what services were requested at the point of sale.

Cheers
Em x

As mentioned to you, the named account holder doesn't even know how to hold a mouse, thus his registering here is a non-sequitur. I would have gladly given you his details privately via private message and you could have easily called him to verify that I speak for him (this is assuming that you have outgoing call privileges).

As mentioned previously, the number that I dialled is 0800-049-1054 - that's the number at the top of the www.talktalk.co.uk webpage. It does not say whether it is Sales or New Line Installations. Surely you are familiar with this number??? Perhaps you would be so kind to tell us if that is Sales or New Line Installations.

Update: I just called that number and asked them if they were Sales or New Line Installations. The person said, "We do both". Go figure.

Apparently what happened, is, TalkTalk's records show the flat as having a cable telephone line - that info is incorrect - he has only ever had a BT line (he could never afford cable - just sat there and watched the 5 terrestrial channels 24//7 365 days a year (when he is not in hospital). I was told the line would go live on 28 or 29 December, and that a router would be sent out. Instead, they sent out an engineer and he changed the guy's telephone number - I would guess what happened is that TalkTalk's records said that the line was a cable line, so the guy was given orders to go out and "install a new line" - of course, when he got out there, he found that it wasn't a cable telephone line but a BT line, so the guy in fact did nothing, but the charity case guy is apparently going to get charged for it (when I signed him up for the service, TalkTalk was running a special - no connection charge (assuming there was no new line installation)).

As for informing my charity client that a new line installation is a 24-month contract versus an 18-month contract for a migration from a BT line, you again miss the boat - he's not on a 24-month contract even if TalkTalk did put a new line in - TalkTalk did that on their own bat. In any event, he will in all likelihood die even before the 18-month contract is up, so do you REALLY think he is going to be worried about that. I won't even bother him with the issue. The only thing that I will do is make sure a block is put on his bank account so that TalkTalk can't withdraw any money.

Without a change in the situation, we are boxed in on this matter. We cannot talk to TalkTalk - well, my client can, but he hasn't a clue what any of this is (he doesn't even know what the internet is - the first thing I am going to do when I get him online is show him how to play games/chess with people around the world - he doesn't know any of this exists), and, of course, TalkTalk is not set up to speak to third-parties such as computer installers - even if they have the account holder's approval - but again, that is down to a trust issue between TalkTalk and it's telephone reps.

Edited by investmentbanker (Wed 27-Jan-10 18:02:19)

Taking a step back from this whole thing for a moment, my guess as to where it all went wrong is that when somebody in that block of flats got cable TV and a cable telephone line, and the whole block probably got marked in the records as being a "cable telephone" block of flats, rather than just the one flat. That's just speculation.

And the guy isn't an 80+ year-old man - he's only about 63. Unfortunately, as Em stated, she cannot talk to me about this guy - I mean, it could all be verified if TalkTalk could speak to the engineer that came out - he would verify that (1) it is an NHS block of flats, (2) the guy in this particular flat is in a shocking state (he has lymphoma, cellulitus, amongst other things - his ankles are the size of what your thighs are). That state of the flat is also shocking - your engineer would without a doubt remember installation - the guy can't even take a shower standing up - the NHS had to put bolt a chair into the floor in the shower so that the guy can sit down and hose himself off. He weighs about 450 pounds. You literally look at him and think, "This guy is going to be dead within twelve months". Those were my exact words that I said to my bishop when we closed the door and left, the first time I went over there with him. Again, your engineer would remember this installation.

Edited by investmentbanker (Wed 27-Jan-10 18:28:26)

In reply to a post by investmentbanker:

I am Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

Wow!!! We are SO impressed!!!!

In reply to a post by alpine:

In reply to a post by investmentbanker:

I am Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

Wow!!! We are SO impressed!!!!

If you had read her previous post, she wrote, "It sounds to me as if you have called the new line instalations team to set up the service for your friend rather than a migration of a service from another provider." I don't make that sort of basic mistake, and I was simply trying to get it across to her that she could cut to the chase (similar to when I call up any ISP for any client and the ISP person asks me "Have you tried unplugging the modem and plugging it back in again?" - it saves time if they know I know computers. Maybe I didn't work it well - perhaps I should have written, "I'm an MCSE - I know the difference between migration and a new line - I don't make basic mistakes like that".

My mistake over age - I was confusing him with another disgruntled TT customer that hasn't had a live telephone since before Christmas but that's another story.

So apologies for any confusion over his age but he is clearly still infirm and elderly. And he can't operate a mouse let alone register and use a forum.

Anyway I will back out of this one as there is nothing new to be said at this point.

I'm fairly sure that its BT who would have told TT that the line was a cable, so it would be BT's data base thats needs updating.

In your 1st post you say that TT came out and installed the broadband router and then in a later post, you say

"Therefore, we have decided to let TalkTalk bring it live, send out the router, and we will go for an immediate disconnect and go to another ISP."

So i'm asking myself, are you getting 2 routers or is that the engineer who attended, came to fit a master socket and was from BTOR.

As to the data protection and acting on behalf of other people I had the same problem with HMRC. I had all my friends details and his permission to act on his behalf, but they wouldn't let me. They insisted on speaking to my friend, who was not with me. And no! they would not phone him to speak to him, he had to ring them. I have also had the same sort of problems with banks.

Sean

I erred when I said that the engineer left a router when he came out - at that point I had simply spoken to my charity case client, and he really didn't know what I was talking about - when I actually went out to his flat to hook up the computer, I found that the engineer had in fact not left a router. I called TT and they told me the router would be sent out in about six weeks time - because it was going to take that long to get the new line live for broadband.

Hi Investmentbanker,

The engineers are BT Openreach engineers and not TalkTalk engineers therefore it is not possible for me to speak to the engineer regarding an instalation. As I stated earlier in this thread any 3rd party access would need to be pre arranged and the word of a BT Openreach engineer confirms only the work that was completed in the property - it would not confirm power of attourney or the right to discuss an account on the account holders behalf.

I can appreciate your frustration and I would love to be able to help out and investigate the sale of the account etc but I can not do this without the relevant data protection confirmation from the named account holder. If you'd like me to re-visit this once your clients broadband service is live and the account holder can post on the TalkTalk forums to give you authorisation to deal with his account then I'm more than happy to investigate fully for you.

Cable markers are specific to the telephone line they are applied to so this would not affect another line in a block of flats etc. If the line has ever been on a Cable service the marker would remain on the line and a new number would be required as LLU is not compatible with cable markers.

Cheers
Em x