LLU and SamKnows Site

I just checked this site over the weekend and it says i am enabled for the following services.

* BT Wholesale ADSL
* BT Wholesale ADSL Max
* TalkTalk (CPW) LLU

Now this is the first time i have known me to be enabled for Talk Talk LLU, never had that in the past and i am doubting the claims of the site because this is a small Scottish Borders town of under 5000 homes, seems unlikely it would be enabled especially since the last i heard was that work would be carried out on broadband services sometime late 2012.

How accurate is SamKnows and is there any way of finding out if i am on LLU, my postcode is TD8 6JY if that helps.

I'd prefer not to phone Talk Talk, we have the phone with them ( good service ) but they keep calling us twice a day to try and flog broadband to us despite telling them that i have ticked the box on the online site ( i pay online for the phone bill ) that i do not wish to be pestered with sales calls, i said they were breaking the rules and they said they would stop, now they have started again, real annoying, yes i could pick up and ask if i am on LLU but i am too annoyed and would prefer not to, if you ask not to receive sales calls they should not call you.

I hear their LLU service is much superior to the ADSL service and if enabled then i might consider taking it up, if only they would cut out the sales calls twice a day.

Its likely it has, you could use their own exchange checker until recently, however look for one of the resellers of Talk Talk, Titan or Adsl 24 etc. If its the Jedburgh exchange you use anything above 1000 homes is exceptable now, well it is in Cymru! As for Sam knows the only critism I have it can a bit slow to update when exchanges go LIVE.

Edited by NilSatisOptimum (Tue 01-Nov-11 07:23:16)

Another clue would be to use maps.thinkbroadband.com and when you see talktalk results with upstream results above 0.5Mbps you know that will be LLU based.

This actually shows someone has managed to order it and it is working

I live in a small Scottish village - called Dunblane - with around 3000 homes and we have TalkTalk LLU, Sky LLU ( I believe ) and are supposed to be getting FTTC (ha, not holding my breath ) this year.... so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that you do have LLU.

It's well worth it imo.

NSO,

I think Jack's onto the exchange checker thing, see this thread: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/f/4058924-...

In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:

is there any way of finding out if i am on LLU, my postcode is TD8 6JY if that helps.

You can see what they offer you on their webpage: http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/product/broadband

In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:

if you ask not to receive sales calls they should not call you.

You can report them to the TPS: http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html if you have registered with the TPS, even if you are already a customer of TT but they keep calling about anything other than the service you have contracted for.

Hi TalkTalk1969,

WE are at present expanding the reach of our network and unbundling new exchanges

The Samsknows dat is collated from ISP directly by Sam. As such, although this occasionaly may take some time to update when exchanges are unbundled, if LLU presence is showing then you can be pretty certain it is available. There's only a few very rare circumstances this would not be the case (as advised Samknows collates data direct from the ISP's in question).

If you use the TT avaialbilty checker on the website it will confirm if LLU is avaialbe. However by using the Availabilty checker you agree that TT will call you to follow up on your enquiry (which may be the reason for the recent marketing calls you have received).

If you do not wish to receve marketing calls you can use the TalkTalk Members Forum site and we can request an opt out for you. Alternatively this can be done via My Account. If your alredy opted out we need to investigate this via the Members Forum as to why contact is still being received.


Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department

Mark,

How can somebody stop marketing calls if they have simply used the TT availability checker from the web site, when they are not yet TT users, and can not access the members' forum?

I did it once, a year or so ago, and got a call back from sales offering me a very "attractive" deal. However because the sales person was so keen to make a sale things such as "subject to availability" were conveniently not mentioned. At the time there was limited LLU capacity at the exchange, this could be seen on the TT exchange checker by anybody - apparently this is not accessible to even TT members any more. Incidentally I didn't accept this "wonderful" broadband and phone offer.

Anyway after that I continued to get a few sales calls but fortunately they have now dried up

A bit of gumf in here but pay attention to the bolded part

CSSExchangeDistrictCode ES

A unique code representing the OpenReach District for this line. See Appendix D for more details for a list of possible district codes and their meaning. Possible values and their meaning: CL - City of London CM - Central Midlands EA - East Anglia EM - East Midlands ES - East Scotland LC - Lancs and Cumbria LN - London North LS - London South LV � Liverpool LW - London West MR � Manchester MY - Mid Yorks ND - North Downs & Weald NE - North East NI - Northern Ireland NS - North of Scotland SD - South Downs SL - Sheffield & Lincoln SM - South Midlands SS � Severnside ST � Solent SW - South Wales TH � Thameswey WE - West End WM - North &West Midland WN - North Wales WR � Westminster WS - West of Scotland WW � Westward


EstimatedAnnexMUploadSpeed Unknown

Field describing the estimated upload speed for Annex M Enabled line


EstimatedDownloadSpeed 5900

Field describing the estimated download speed available at this exchange


ExchangeCapacityFlag G

The following flags provide the User a indication to gauge the probability of success in order fulfilment: Red (R)� There is no capacity at the specified exchange. If placed, the order will most probably be rejected. Amber (A) � There is limited capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with distinct possibility that it will fail. Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection. Green (G) � There is ample capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with confidence.

ExchangeCode ESJED

Identifier of the exchange for the installation


ExchangeName JEDBURGH

Name of the exchange for the installation


ExchangeState Live

The current state of the Exchange. One of the following values � [Unplanned, Targeted, Scheduled, Unbundling, Completing, Live, Suspended]


ForecastDate 01/01/0001 00:00:00

The date when the exchange is forecasted to go live


IPTVCapacity NotSet

The following flags provide the User a indication to gauge the probability of success in IPTV order fulfilment: Red (R)� There is no capacity at the specified exchange. If placed, the order will most probably be rejected. Amber (A) � There is limited capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with distinct possibility that it will fail. Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection. Green (G) � There is ample capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with confidence.


IPTVState Disabled

The current state of the exchange for IPTV. One of the following values - [NotSet, Enabled, Disabled]


LineLength Measure Type - CircuitEstimated;
Length - 2351;

They must like their title, most moaned about ISP, just imagine, you had signed up to the attractive deal, bang no capacity!

NSO,

Actually I called them because my cousin was having problems with his TT account and I had no intention of signing up. He thought he was going to be put onto a full LLU service when he renewed his contract, however he was not and remained on IP stream and subject to a £15 surcharge. This was possibly due to limited capacity, but when I was called back the lower LLU price was quoted and the possibility of a higher price was not mentioned nor limited capacity.

I read in another thread in this forum where it was suggested that one could give the phone number of the nearest fast food takeaway when checking for TT availability, which I thought was really funny!

Fastfood: "Vegetable fried rice or noodles with your order sir?"
TT: " What are you talktalking about!"

Abe01,

What does: "Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection," mean? Perhaps IP stream until LLU is available?

In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:

If you use the TT avaialbilty checker on the website it will confirm if LLU is avaialbe. However by using the Availabilty checker you agree that TT will call you to follow up on your enquiry (which may be the reason for the recent marketing calls you have received).

If you do not wish to receve marketing calls you can use the TalkTalk Members Forum site and we can request an opt out for you. Alternatively this can be done via My Account. If your alredy opted out we need to investigate this via the Members Forum as to why contact is still being received.


Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department

Surely it should be feasible for TT to have a tick box option so that people using the the TT Checker can avoid receiving follow up marketing phone calls. The option to avoid such marking calls given above seems very complicated and impracticable for the majority as the members forum is only open to TT subscribers!

"IPTVCapacity NotSet

The following flags provide the User a indication to gauge the probability of success in IPTV order fulfilment: Red (R)� There is no capacity at the specified exchange. If placed, the order will most probably be rejected. Amber (A) � There is limited capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with distinct possibility that it will fail. Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection. Green (G) � There is ample capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with confidence.


IPTVState Disabled"


So does this mean LLU is available via Talk Talk but there is no capacity. ?

Bit of a noob when it comes to LLU.

I did try the Talk Talk site but sales calls were coming in twice a day ( including today ) before i checked that site out, anyways the Talk Talk site only says i can get an estimated 5.8mbp/s and doesn't mention LLU.

I'm still confused, i'm with Zen and now paying almost £26 a month for a very good and reliable service, i'd happily pay £6.50 a month for a reliable LLU service, i will not pay for their normal adsl service which i understand has speed caps during peak times and that would just annoy me.

Anyway i'm still confused.

In reply to a post by tgv:

Surely it should be feasible for TT to have a tick box option so that people using the the TT Checker can avoid receiving follow up marketing phone calls. The option to avoid such marking calls given above seems very complicated and impracticable for the majority as the members forum is only open to TT subscribers!

Bulldog did that, which was fine until I forgot to tick the thing, then had phone calls every few days, so now Talk Talk are doing the same thing by phoning people and annoying them.

You can gohere on the talk talk siteand put your number and postcode in, that will give you some info and they don't phone you back

If you want to know for sure if it has been unbundled, put your phone number into our checker http://www.vivaciti.net/signup.php(no we don't log these so no one will call you!) and if it offers you the option of ADSL2+ LLU 100GB FUP then the exchange has been unbundled.

In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:

"IPTVCapacity NotSet

The following flags provide the User a indication to gauge the probability of success in IPTV order fulfilment: Red (R)� There is no capacity at the specified exchange. If placed, the order will most probably be rejected. Amber (A) � There is limited capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with distinct possibility that it will fail. Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection. Green (G) � There is ample capacity at the specified exchange. Order can be placed with confidence.


IPTVState Disabled"


So does this mean LLU is available via Talk Talk but there is no capacity. ?

Bit of a noob when it comes to LLU.

I did try the Talk Talk site but sales calls were coming in twice a day ( including today ) before i checked that site out, anyways the Talk Talk site only says i can get an estimated 5.8mbp/s and doesn't mention LLU.

I'm still confused, i'm with Zen and now paying almost £26 a month for a very good and reliable service, i'd happily pay £6.50 a month for a reliable LLU service, i will not pay for their normal adsl service which i understand has speed caps during peak times and that would just annoy me.

Anyway i'm still confused.

No, no, your exchange is enabled and has plenty of capacity. TalkTalk have their equipment in there and as it stands there are plenty of tie pairs spare.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Abe01,

What does: "Please reserve tie-pair to avoid possible rejection," mean? Perhaps IP stream until LLU is available?

If the exchange is set as amber (i.e. limited equipment left) then to avoid a rejection tie pairs can be reserved. TalkTalk can't do this though, before anyone asks!!

Abel01,

Sorry I still don't understand that: is it some sort of waiting list queue for LLU where folks are put on/remain on IP stream initially and pay the lower price quoted for full LLU?

vivaciti,

Did you know that pages on your web site are being blocked by Kaspersky IS 2012 on my pc due to HEUR: Trojan.Script.Iframe - probably a false positive?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Abel01,

Sorry I still don't understand that: is it some sort of waiting list queue for LLU where folks are put on/remain on IP stream initially and pay the lower price quoted for full LLU?

Nope, sorry should have been more clear. It's nothing to do with any kind of waiting list or anything to do with IPStream.
It's an engineering resource tool to enable LLU equipment in an exchange to be reserved when capacity is running low

Abel01,

Cheers - I'll have to read up about that sometime - guess it applies to SMPF also?

We did get a report from a customer using the same scanner as you.
Our site is scanned everyday, but when we got that report we also got some third party scans done and they all showed up as clean, but thank you for letting us know.

Post deleted by 4M2

Probably just an IFrame method that is spotted and is used by someone for less than safe things...

KIS appears to produce lots of false positives

Norton DNS is fine with your site, it's just KIS2012 doing the blocking at the moment.

Yes, I had problems with KIS blocking a video codec (CineForm v6) a while ago which was a bit of a hassle

I did put my phone number into the Vivaciti site and it says.

ADSL2+ LLU 100GB FUP

So sometime this year Talk Talk did work on the Jedburgh exchange and i can now get LLU either through Talk Talk or Vivaciti.

Well that's good, i'm still surprised though.

It would be extra nice if i could get higher speeds on upload since my website is around 3GB in size and backups take a long time at 448kbp/s. I'm actually happy enough with the 5.5mbp/s i currently get on download, although more speed is also nice.

I'm currently with Zen, if i wanted to go LLU would i get a MAC code or just ask Talk Talk to put me on their LLU service, can i be guaranteed it will be LLU and they won't put me on an inferior IPstream product. ( thats Talk Talk )

I do website backups sometimes in the evening, maybe once a month, would Talk Talk see the FTP backup taking place and confuse it with P2P ( never use ) and throttle my speed, i do enjoy online gaming and don't want speed capped, is LLU with Talk Talk good at not throttling online gaming or indeed IPlayer or movie trailer downloads, if all they throttle is P2P then thats fine as i don't use it, i just wonder how they differentiate between P2P and applications like FTP and IPlayer and downloads.

Just noticed that the Vivaciti site says ADSL2+ LLU - offers unlimited usage on the LLU platform (C&W) Not available at your exchange, does this mean there is a capacity issue at my exchange, why do i not get that offer. ?

Finally, am i right in saying that higher upload and download speeds depend on BT carrying out work at my local exchange. ?

Thanks for everyones help, looks like i may be able to save some money with LLU although i'll actually be a little sad to leave behind the excellent reliable service that Zen Internet gives me, i also know it might be costly to go back to Zen should Talk Talk disappoint me and the only way they would do that is by throttling me during peak times. ( something i experienced once with Virgin many years ago and don't wish to experience again )

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Nov-11 02:13:34)

TalkTalk1969,

Probably best for you to check with vivaciti regarding your requirements. I'm pretty sure that they can offer you partial LLU (SMPF) rather than TalkTalk's full LLU (MPF) if your exchange is unbundled. Partial LLU should allow you to return to IP stream (and Zen) without any costly problems if you wanted. TalkTalk would probably be the cheaper monthly option but you could have some major headaches them.

You might as well get a MAC key from Zen whether it's actually needed or not and it will be valid for a month.

These are just my opinions and others may have very different advice and information.

Best of luck

Yeah but there would then be no point in leaving Zen since the price is not that different, the only reason i am considering leaving Zen is to save money and if i can be guaranteed LLU and no throttling issues during peak times then i'll jump ship.

I thought you wanted faster upload speeds also?

HI All,

The Follow up call after using the TT Availability Checker is a condition of using the check itself. As most people who check what speed TT can offer are in some way potentially interested in the service, then a follow up call is made.

If non customers wish to opt out of any marketing calls they can do so either via email or using the Contact Us form on the TalkTalkMembersForum website (as non customers cannot register for the forum) where opt out can be completed. There is also a written address such requests can be made, in the Code of Practice on the TT Website.


Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department

Mark,

Or alternatively just call 0800 049 1374 and not use the speed check, then one can speak to a sales person at a time that is convenient rather than get a call back at possibly an inconvenient moment.

The sales person should be able to confirm full LLU availability etc. and one should also be able to request no further marketing calls if it was simply an enquiry. Having to send an email, use the Contact Us Form etc. is surely a ridiculous arrangement?

I did it, spent an hour on the phone sorting this out, Talk Talk say i will have faster upload and download speeds, they quoted me 8.9mbp/s download and a 1mbp/s upload speed, so yes it is supposed to be faster.

I'm annoyed at losing free international extra as i make calls to North America every day, i argued long and hard with the salesperson and then his manager about this, i said i wouldn't take out the broadband if they charged for international calls to the USA, no budging, i ended up giving in after twenty five minutes of heated debate on the matter, so thats £3 extra but they quoted £21.80 inc the international calls and broadband for the first 12 months, after which it will be £23.30 including line rental.

Thats still saving me a whopping amount of cash each month and if their claims of higher speeds are true and no throttling, then great, i asked about it and told them i like to stream HD movie trailers at Apples site and play online gaming and backup my website with FTP etc etc, they said no throttling as long as i stay within my 40Gig limits, well they would say that, i hope they are true to their word but we'll see, i hope i haven't made a mistake.

Now i gotta go check out the thread about people being charged for cease orders on their line when switching from ADSL to LLU, since i'm already with Talk Talk for the phone i can't see why i would pay a cease charge though. ( not with BT )

I agree about the sales calls, their online checking facility should not be harvesting peoples numbers to pester them for sales chatter, not without informing them in advance that it does this, it should have an opt out, i wonder if thats all legal.

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Nov-11 15:33:39)

hi 42m,

We offer Online Engagement options to customers we communicate with via online media. This is the reason I did not suggest calling the telephony sales team, to provide a matched method to the one we are using at present i.e. Online.


Of course calling TT to make an enquiry is an option and it circumvents a call from the sales team (as your already calling them), marketing opt outs can be requested if necessary at this time.

TalKTalk1969 - In regards the migration if you join the TTMF Forum we can look into any details of the transfer you are querying. The TTMF Forum allows us to complete data protection checks so we can access your account.

In regards the Availability checker it does clearly state the following:


Please be aware that if you use the speed checker, TalkTalk will call you to discuss your broadband requirements.

This is in clear White Text (on a dark background) above the "Check Speed" Button and just below where customers enter the phone number and postscode.

As such this is the most prevelant placement for a message notifying customers that a further call will be received for the purposes of discussing BB requirements. If you wish to use the avaialbility checker you agree to receipt of this call. There is however no obligation to use the checker on the TT site and as 42m has advised above there are alternative options to check your speed via telephony support (although I did not refer to these as we provide matched contact methods for online engagement as explained above).

Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department

Would 40GB be enough for you if streaming HD videos?

I do a fair bit with HD 5Mbps and 8Mbps VBR stuff and it soon eats into a usage allowance - upload data and download data is normally added together. Some ISP's have off peak unlimited usage and others even offer unlimited uploads as part of their package.

All this you probably know but it's worth taking into consideration...

Yeah, i don't download whole films, just trailers and not that many a week, they're not that big.

Maybe view the occasional Youtube video and BBC, ITV or Ch 4 Player, once again i don't think they're huge files and its only occasionally, the biggest file each month is backing up my website which is near 3 Gigabyte in size, i'll do that at off peak hours with Talk Talk just to make them happy and to avoid any possible issues.

I like playing Resistance: Fall Of Man online gameplay which is the Playstation 3, once again i don't think that eats up too much data.

Really with Zen i was using between 8 Gig and 12 Gig a month, i had gone onto their lite product but lately have just been sneaking over the 10 Gig limit so was paying for additional usage by buying boosts, i decided just last week to upgrade to the 50 Gig plan and pay £7 more, then i got a shock and discovered i had LLU from the Carphone Warehouse on the line, i didn't expect that, so i decided to ask about that here and then today i called Talk Talk.

Of course uploads now count as data where before with Zen they didn't, that should be fine too, i'll probably struggle to use 20 Gig a month, not a real heavy user but sometimes i like to watch some HD trailers and maybe stream a few Youtube vids, maybe in the future i might upload some HD footage from my camcorder if i truly have a faster speed, at the moment 448kbp/s is real slow for uploading as some of that footage can be big.

With the money i will save i am now planning to treat myself to an extra pack of cornflakes a week, i might even push to an extra bottle of milk too, i might even ditch my website which costs me £33 a month and put it on Google blogger for free with just the domain name costs to pay, the economy really is that bad that i need every penny right now.

Here's the good news:

My cousin uploaded a 116MB video last night, at about 9.30, to vimeo.com - we didn't bother to monitor the speed because it was obviously going really well. So we went and made some tea, drank it and when we returned to the pc the upload was done.

He's on TT essentials LLU with no broadband speed boosts

Thats good, i wish YouTube and Vimeo had higher quality settings, i shoot at 28mbp/s and 1080 50p and then they convert at 4.5mbp/s and suddenly great looking footage has lots of artifacts all over it and becomes real poor looking, i think its going to be years before true HD quality footage is available on those services, of course a higher setting would see crazy large file sizes and we would need much faster connections to view the material properly, maybe in the future it'll happen.

The big thing for me is that additional boost to the upload speeds, thats what has me excited, i think upload speed is often neglected by people but if you have a website or like to upload footage online then more speed is always better.

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Nov-11 18:40:12)

vimeo's encoding always looks OK to me - obviously at a reduced quality compared to the source camera files although generally I don't see any blocking due to compression.

Generally I find compressing/resizing to H.264 (or x264) 5Mbps VBR, 2 passes, 720p gives good results on vimeo. They will compress again, of course, to H.264 ~2500Kbps VBR 720p but they will use 2 passes for "plus" users.

Actually my cousin's video, that he uploaded last night, was a WMV 5Mbps VBR 720p file and vimeo made a very good job of it and he's not a "plus" user so probably didn't benefit from a 2 pass transcoding.

Edit: vimeo also allows the downloading of the original uploaded files so one can use a much higher bit rate for those uploads if one wants to make them available for download.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 03-Nov-11 19:05:10)

Its probably cos i viewed some of them on my projector at 104inches, if its not blu ray then quality at that size is shown up, even some blu rays look poorer due to using old outdated masters or getting the "Universal back catalog treatment" my website is based around blu ray film reviews and quality and i do tend to spot issues pretty easy after years of training the eye to look for even minor faults so i can give better reviews, i'm a huge film fan.

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Nov-11 19:19:15)

104"!!!!

I only use 22" 1920x1080 and even then I scale the playback to 1280x720, i.e black borders around the video for 720p stuff.

Even 1920x1080 or 1920x818 blu-ray is at a lower bit rate that at what your camera shoots (28Mbps) though, isn't it?

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 03-Nov-11 19:57:51)

It all depends on the movie and transfer they give it, for example Vera Cruz, a movie western from 1954, has a bitrate that often hovers between 36/37mbp/s, it needs to as that film is grainy and the encoder can't handle it without a higher bitrate, its ugly looking due to issues with no anti halation backing and poor lab processing but its true to the source.

I like my movies to look like film, that includes preserving film grain as that is what makes up the detail you are seeing and on a projection system the preservation of the film grain makes it look so much like being at the cinema.

Blu ray uses variable bitrates though and some transfers will have peaks in their mid forties while a longer film uses more disc space ( lets say a 4 hour film ) and it may peak at high twenties, how good it looks depends on the skill of the encoder.

VC-1 codec at low bitrate tends to smooth the image, i'm talking 16mbp/s or under, i dislike that and you can find many examples of this smoothing on earlier Warner titles, films like Batman Begins. VC-1 at reasonable bitrates is as good as AVC though.

I sometimes take bitrate readings for my site, heres an example from the classic spy film, Charade.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/wp-content/...

Note the average bitrate readings.

I should add bitrate is not usually why something can look bad on blu ray, by that i mean its the old adage garbage in and garbage out, the studio could use a very old outdated DVD master, something which has baked in issues and they could encode it at an average bitrate of 35mbp/s and it will still look rubbish, on the other hand a new film shot last year could have a bitrate of 25mbp/s and look just great, so much more to this than just bitrate.

Anyways i'm going on and on now so will stop, i'll just say for me its all about preserving the way the film was shot without them adding artifical "enhancements" which can destroy the look of the movie.

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Nov-11 20:13:13)

In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:

HI All,

The Follow up call after using the TT Availability Checker is a condition of using the check itself. As most people who check what speed TT can offer are in some way potentially interested in the service, then a follow up call is made.

Disgusting to be honest, there should be some way to stop that happening apart from not inputting your number in the first place.


People may just be looking around and input their number just to check that they can get Talk Talk and to compare with other ISps what speed they may get.

If non customers wish to opt out of any marketing calls they can do so either via email or using the Contact Us form on the TalkTalkMembersForum website (as non customers cannot register for the forum) where opt out can be completed. There is also a written address such requests can be made, in the Code of Practice on the TT Website.

You can opt out after being called, that is a great idea. why not make it easier with a option so that people can opt out of being called when they input their number?

I suppose that is too easy for Talk Talk, how they keep customers or even get customers I don't know.
Pathetic company

Now I know why they grabbed hold of Tiscali, because they are both the same

Well they get customers because they are cheap, thats why i went with them, that and the fact i have not heard any major horror stories about their LLU service ( unlike their IPStream service )

Their phone service is excellent, never had any issues with it in all the years i have had it.

In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:

Well they get customers because they are cheap, thats why i went with them, that and the fact i have not heard any major horror stories about their LLU service ( unlike their IPStream service )

Their phone service is excellent, never had any issues with it in all the years i have had it.

I can hear Bilbos keyboard going ten to the dozen as i post this.

Thanks for the info - I know very little about commercial encoding (other than using DVD Decryter to copy regular DVD's - at that is of course working with VOB files aka MPEG-2)

Interesting that you say VC-1 (WMV) gives equal results to AVC (H.264) at a reasonable bit rate - I do sometimes use Windows Media Encoder 9 to create WMV files and those files are universally playable on Windows machines whereas H.264 can be a problem if the codecs are not installed on a machine nor QuickTime installed. Generally get very good results from WME 9 although sometimes I get a gamma shift from H.264/AVCHD source files which is not always desirable...

I got switched over today, it was very easy to just put the new username and password within my Netgear router. ( I don't want to use the D-Link they sent me )

I did a speedtest at this site, getting 5.7mbp/s and 0.8mbp/s upload.

With Zen i was typically getting around upto 5.1mbp/s, sometimes slightly faster and sometimes slower, uploads would be about 380kbp/s - give or take some either way - well anyways i am glad to see upload speed is improved, this means i am on LLU.

Uploading a file to my website using CuteFTP and i only got 108kbp/s tops, thats disappointing, maybe its a time of day thing or something to do with the application. ?

When i go into my router setup online it shows this.

DownStream Connection Speed 7014 Kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 961 Kbps
Line Attenuation 35.9 dB 15.9 dB
Noise Margin 10.1 dB 12.1 dB

Anyone care to comment on those figures. ?

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Nov-11 19:08:45)

Yes, it's syncing too slow; you should be getting about 11 Meg.

Can i fix that at my end and how would i do that. ?

Plug into hidden test socket, remove ring wire, swap filters ... ?

I already did all that, everything is all fine.

When i was with Zen i would find speeds dropping during peak times to anywhere between 2.1mbp/s to 4mbp/s, on a few occasions it dropped to 0.8mbp/s, of course that was using the BT network.

I am happy with a constant 5.7mbp/s during peak times and happy to see higher upload speeds too, i am just wondering where do you get the 11mbp/s speed from, Talk Talk quoted me around 8.9mbp/s for downloads.

In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:

i am just wondering where do you get the 11mbp/s speed from

Put 36 (your attenuation) in here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

It says the line length is 2.6km, i assume that Talk Talk are using my local exchange and i know i am approx 1 mile from that. I suppose the 2.6km could represent how the wires get to me as opposed the straight distance i am from the exchange.

I also know attentuation when on the BT Network with Zen was 42db, now it says 36db.

I will take a closer look at the router, perhaps its a setting in there that needs changed.

Latest figures in the Router Status show:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7014 Kbps 961 Kbps
Line Attenuation 35.9 dB 15.9 dB
Noise Margin 12.4 dB 12.7 dB

Ping time is 47ms, with Zen it was typically around 84ms, so thats an improvement.

A test at another site shows this.

Download speed 6001 Kbps
Upload speed 780 Kbps
D/load COS 99 %
U/load COS 72 %
RTT 5 ms
RTT Consistency 13 %
Max Delay 37 ms
Avg Delay 4 ms
Max Bandwidth 6001 Kbps
Route Speed 104856 Kbps
Forced Idle 0 %
Route Conc 1.0
Download test s
Upload test s
Test Bandwidth Speed

Edited by deleted (Sat 19-Nov-11 16:18:42)

your noise margin is set artificially high, but they might not want to change it for the first (10?) days. A noise margin of 6dB should give you a few extra mbits

These are my latest figures, i have tried a direct connection to the master socket and nothing changes.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4872 Kbps 777 Kbps
Line Attenuation 35.7 dB 15.7 dB
Noise Margin 17.9 dB 15.9 dB

The figures are now worse, the speed stays a stable 4mbp/s but i was promised 8.9mbp/s by Talk Talk and used to get around 5.2mbp/s ( at best ) on the old BT Network under Zen Internet, i thought LLU would get me more downspeeds, i am getting higher upload speeds which is nice but clearly something is wrong.

I am currently using a Netgear N150 ( DGN 1000 ) router.

It looks like i might have to try the Talk Talk forums since i did not have a great experience with their phone contact number last year when having an issue with Zen internet and a 3 day loss of the net, of course Zen asked me to phone Talk Talk who in turn asked me to contact Zen, as it turns out the internet came back on and i believe it was linked to a BT outage in Edinburgh which also affected the Borders, funny how Zen couldn't tell me that but an internet search revealed it with relevent dates, anyways going off the point now.

Noise margin during the first ten days was much lower and i did not have disconnect issues so why it is higher now, well who knows.

Edited by deleted (Mon 02-Jan-12 16:00:20)

If your site's host supports rsync, you could use that to do backups. Means that only the differences are transferred and not the entire site.

...might be worth the research

Your connection speed is alot lower than previous because the noise margin has shot up
And previous should of been higher anyway given the stats but you say you only got 5.2mbps on ADSLmax with what must of been a mid 30's at most line attenuation? I have 33db/34db line attenuation and can jsut make 8128kbps on ADSLmax in comparison....you must have some noise on the line or are they all overhead telephone lines?

Increase in noise margin = lower sync speed (usually)

TT run DLM and profiling dont they? If so I would suspect the DLM has shunted you onto a higher target noise margin because of noise and/or dropped syncs.

Havent fully read the thread but have you tried a different router just to make sure its not the router playing up and screwing the line up? And plugged into the test socekt on the BT master socket and making sure nothing is wired into the back of the master socket where the BT line comes in? (it shouldnt be AFAIK).

I'll look into Rsync, thanks for telling me about it as it sounds pretty good.

I don't think anyone is working over at the Talk Talk forums, no replies, i have had to reply to myself two times just to keep the post going, so far i'm a little disappointed in their forums as i had heard they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, i'm probably too impatient.

I asked them if i could be put on a 9db noise profile to see if i get a speed increase because i never had disconnections or issues when the noise margin was 10.1db and giving me around 2.5mbp/s more speed, therefore i feel it could be stable at 9db.

I have asked them if their dynamic line management system will see me disconnecting my router after i finish with my computer and mistake that switching off of the router as a disconnection and line issue and thus try and change things at their end, i used to have that issue with BT and Zen, i always switch the Netgear router off when not in use because it gets hot, very hot and i personally also feel its a waste of a small amount of energy so i switch it off when not in use.

The telephone lines are from masts and i have indeed tried a different router ( Xyzel ) and straight into the BT master socket.

I have tested packet loss and note at the recommended MTU setting of 1432 i get some packet loss, at 1400 i get no packet loss, not sure why that is but i told them on their forums.

:EDIT:

Just checked their forums again, my mistake, someone is clearly working there but just ignoring my posts, not even an hello, makes me feel so good about ditching Zen.

Edited by deleted (Tue 03-Jan-12 17:01:03)