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Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 19:25:04
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 20:04:32
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.


right nice bit of info there the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into that's about all i know about it so it gos back to it i wont find out anything until tomorrow when its actually done and fingers crossed it all gos well lol.

FTTC gos active December 1st (was sept 31st then dec 31s but on the latest BT openreach PDF thing its finalised at dec 1st witch talktalk seamed to confirm) so ill only be on there adsl a few week am i right in thinking then. That once connected to FTTC it no longer matters how long the line ends up going to the exchange just how far to the cab.

This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster ive seen people with estimates of 26 get full speed.

Sorry for asking so many questions i just like to get as much info about these things as pos lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:13:45
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into
Right, I've now seen it from the Google Street View.
This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster
I've followed the route from cabinet to pole and then back again, looking at everything of interest on the way. As you've been told by an OR engineer that that is the route your current line takes to the PCP, let's add a bit on to the 400 metres distance given by Google Maps -- say 450 metres.

A predicted 30 - 32 Mbps sounds about right for that distance. However, as most of us know, the estimated value is often on the low side, so you might see ~35 Mbps.

My neighbours line has been measured electronically (with a 301C Pulse Echo Tester) at exactly 400 metres / 440 yards / one quarter of a mile. Here is the part of the output obtained from the modem --
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24805 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73424 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.8 22.2
There are three things to note from that output:

(1) He has already been upgraded from Profile 8c to Profile 17a.
(2) The line beginning "Max:" shows the maximum attainable rate for his line (if not capped).
(3) The line beginning "Path:" shows his current line rate.

When a BT Wholesale Performance Test was run, that line showed 35 Mbps (down) and 8 Mbps (up).

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.


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Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:26:05
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into
Right, I've now seen it from the Google Street View.
This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster
I've followed the route from cabinet to pole and then back again, looking at everything of interest on the way. As you've been told by an OR engineer that that is the route your current line takes to the PCP, let's add a bit on to the 400 metres distance given by Google Maps -- say 450 metres.

A predicted 30 - 32 Mbps sounds about right for that distance. However, as most of us know, the estimated value is often on the low side, so you might see ~35 Mbps.

My neighbours line has been measured electronically (with a 301C Pulse Echo Tester) at exactly 400 metres / 440 yards / one quarter of a mile. Here is the part of the output obtained from the modem --
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24805 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73424 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.8 22.2
There are three things to note from that output:

(1) He has already been upgraded from Profile 8c to Profile 17a.
(2) The line beginning "Max:" shows the maximum attainable rate for his line (if not capped).
(3) The line beginning "Path:" shows his current line rate.

When a BT Wholesale Performance Test was run, that line showed 35 Mbps (down) and 8 Mbps (up).


right thanks for that info 35 sounds fine im used to 50/100 but the way virgin media have treated me this past few months since rejoining them they can suck a lemon

seen as going direct with BT isnt an option for me (mum wont let them anything near the house lol im lucky she lets OR near with them been a part of BT lol some thing happened in the past thats mad her hold a grudge for 16 year so i tend to to question her lol) so i thought id give talktalk a try they seam to be the only other unlimited provider who do phone and cost under £30 besides BT but im diverting a bit 35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:40:48
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol
Well, you can tell us all about it in a week's time from now . . . smile

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 00:11:55
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol
Well, you can tell us all about it in a week's time from now . . . smile


haha well a few week anyway lol like i say it dont become available till 1/12/11 then goto wait for an appointment to fit lol

phone and adsl today(thursday) so al update this threw id any probs wi that lol

Ash

ROUTERS just arrived so just goto wait for the person to come from OR 1hour 15 mins to go for the time frame lol

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Thu 17-Nov-11 10:46:40)

Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 15:02:08
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
half way threw the time slot now no ones been or called im sure there supposed to ring you the morning of or night before to double confirm the time they did with the sky line hmmm did say it was my luck something would go wrong though lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 17:08:25
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.


What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Hes now just gone to attach it to the other end back to the exchange and that but he said there's a small chance that he might not get it finished tonight depending how much work along the way needs doing,
Because he finishes at 6 but hes saidhes hoping it will be simple enough to finish tonight and if he cant finish it hell be back at 8AM tomorrow morning first job but i wont have to wait in because he wont need access to the house now hell just post a note to sy when its done and to keep an eye out for the DSL coming on

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 17:20:39
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Has he taken the new cable back outside the house to route it around to the new NTE5/A's location or was he able to run the cable internally, within the house?

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 18:16:01
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Has he taken the new cable back outside the house to route it around to the new NTE5/A's location or was he able to run the cable internally, within the house?


hes done it internal, In the end i had them put closer to each other (not next to each other but close) so he used the second pair in the NTE5 that was there from sky 1

Ash

EDIT just had a text off him

unable to get line working today theres a fault with underground cable back tomorrow morning from BT open reach

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Thu 17-Nov-11 20:15:50)

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