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Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Tue 15-Nov-11 06:15:47
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New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[link to this post]
 
Hi having a new line fitted with talktalk on Thursday it will be a second line my first ones with sky my question is what will they do and what do i need to do

Will the second line be a new line from the pole to the house or do they use the same cable as the first line (would prefer a new cable the current ones damaged so screws my attenuation up and gives me a slower synk than i should get but i cant prove it and im not paying 150 quid for an engineer to come see lol)

if its the same line do they need access to the current NET5 socket if yes i need to move a big book shelf befor they get there

(If anyone's wondering how i know my current lines iffy, a few months ago the main BT cable in the ground in the street got damaged but it only knocked me and 1 other person off the engineer accidentally got mine and the other persons lines mixed up,
Were both on sky so my modem synced and the attenuation had dropped to 31 from 38 and it ended up on 14meg vs the current 8-9 then when he switched the wires back around to put the phone numbers back to the right property's i was back on my line an the attenuation shot back up to 38 lol) but i cant prove that so sky say nothing can be done and the i get what my speed estimate was lol)

so oh well fingers crossed i get a second cable thats better haha.

Thanks for nay info

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Tue 15-Nov-11 06:16:54)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 15-Nov-11 12:47:08
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
if the drop wire to the property has a spare pair that meets voice spec then that will be used.

Possibly not the drop wire itself at fault, but an alternate routing somewhere in the network, i.e. your line does not neccessarily take the same router back to the exchange as a neighbours.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Myth
(member) Tue 15-Nov-11 17:12:08
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
when i had an engineer out in 2004 he found a place in the wire just before it entered the house where it had kinda rusted. I think because of the age of the wire he replaced the whole wire from the pole.
Seems like alot of extra work to go through just to fix a break, but maybe this was policy with certain age wires etc. Thinking back I think this wire was just a twin core like bell wire, so that might have been the reason also.

Previously had a 2nd line in another house and the engineer lady just added to the master socket (wasnt nte5), because there was an available 2nd pair. Broadband didn't exist then though so I don't think she had to do many tests on the wire to see if it was viable.

So I think NTE5 access is necessary, yes

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!


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Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Tue 15-Nov-11 23:56:04
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
when i had an engineer out in 2004 he found a place in the wire just before it entered the house where it had kinda rusted. I think because of the age of the wire he replaced the whole wire from the pole.
Seems like alot of extra work to go through just to fix a break, but maybe this was policy with certain age wires etc. Thinking back I think this wire was just a twin core like bell wire, so that might have been the reason also.

Previously had a 2nd line in another house and the engineer lady just added to the master socket (wasnt nte5), because there was an available 2nd pair. Broadband didn't exist then though so I don't think she had to do many tests on the wire to see if it was viable.

So I think NTE5 access is necessary, yes


here's a pic of inside my NTE socket not a good one because of were it is its hard to get to, Do you think thats the 1 with 2 pairs or with 1 pair and bell wire ect ive had cable for 16 years so never looked into BT's wiring lol that sockets only been there since march so id presume its newer cabling altho the cable from the pole to the house has been there since the 70s he just joined the old cable to the new cable with a joiner thing.

i think in long run i best move the book shelf though just in case he needs access, although i dont want the second line near that socket its goin to the other side of the house lol.


@ MrSaffron
not sure about taking a different route but we both connect to the same cabinet and both our wires go the same route to the cabinet from the pole i asked the engineer, maybe after the cabinet to the exchange its diff i dont know most of my neighbours get around the 30 attenuation mark though it would just be my luck though that my line goes way out of the way haha.

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 16-Nov-11 00:05:13)

Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 02:44:29
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
here's a pic of inside my NTE socket not a good one because of were it is its hard to get to, Do you think thats the 1 with 2 pairs or with 1 pair and bell wire ect
You are looking at the end of a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 dropwire -- the orange & white wires are the first pair and the green & black wires are the second pair.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 02:58:53
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
here's a pic of inside my NTE socket not a good one because of were it is its hard to get to, Do you think thats the 1 with 2 pairs or with 1 pair and bell wire ect
You are looking at the end of a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 dropwire -- the orange & white wires are the first pair and the green & black wires are the second pair.


thanks for that it was confusing the line what was in the house when we moved in that was disconnected in 1995 had 6 wires in all completable diff colours lol (the old socket was still on the wall with about 10CM of cable left in it only reason i know lol)

so basically theyll should use the same line then wich also probably means ill end up with a lower atten on that line too crazy

just to show these are the diffs between mine and neighbours (im 99% sure that both lines take identical routes engineer told me were mine went and one told them were theirs went. (i also now a few more ppl on same pole as us 2 with starts are more less same as my neighbours too)

theirs

Uptime: 0 days, 19:10:55 DSL
Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,291 / 14,974
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,287 / 11,918
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16.5 / 30.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 6.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 56 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 36 / 270,236
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 36 / 759
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 908,448 / 563

Mine

System Up Time: 22:01:36
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 26033 24723 0 1251341 17822064 03:34:42
LAN Down 0 0 0 0 0 22:01:36
WLAN Up 50350 31256 0 34029607 14497709 22:01:17
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8392 kbps 796 kbps
Line Attenuation 37.5 dB 20.5 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 12.0 dB

sorry mines a little muddled up the sky router stats dont copy as past right easy lol

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 16-Nov-11 03:22:18)

Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 03:26:52
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
thanks for that it was confusing the line what was in the house when we moved in that was disconnected in 1995 had 6 wires in all completable diff colours lol (the old socket was still on the wall with about 10CM of cable left in it only reason i know lol)
I remember. You told me about that in a different thread, some months ago! wink
so basically theyll should use the same line then wich also probably means ill end up with a lower atten on that line too crazy
I guess it really depends upon where you would like the new NTE5/A to be sited.

The various wiring options would be:

(1) wire internally from the second pair at the back of the first NTE5/A to the location of the new NTE5/A
(2) wire externally from where the dropwire (from the pole) reaches the house
(3) provide a new dropwire from the pole to the house

Just because I've identified a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 doesn't mean that the older length, from the pole to the outside of your house, has a spare pair. Maybe the installing engineer will decide to replace that length and, thus, take off the feed for the new NTE5/A at the external junction, as (2) above.

Perhaps the best you can do is to explain where you would like the new NTE5/A to be sited, ensure that the big bookcase is still in front of the existing socket and be prepared to provide mugs of tea / coffee, chocolate / custard-cream biscuits, bacon sandwiches, etc. laugh

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 03:38:05
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
I remember. You told me about that in a different thread, some months ago! wink


Ah yea so i did lol

The various wiring options would be:

(1) wire internally from the second pair at the back of the first NTE5/A to the location of the new NTE5/A
(2) wire externally from where the dropwire (from the pole) reaches the house
(3) provide a new dropwire from the pole to the house

Just because I've identified a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 doesn't mean that the older length, from the pole to the outside of your house, has a spare pair. Maybe the installing engineer will decide to replace that length and, thus, take off the feed for the new NTE5/A at the external junction, as (2) above.


hmm this all gets confusing lol i hope they do option 2 or 3 be much easier on me but as we no communication engineers do best for them not us haha, The side of my house is going to look like spaghetti junction when ive done lol there's already 9 cables running round the side of it + the new line haha

Just because I've identified a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 doesn't mean that the older length, from the pole to the outside of your house, has a spare pair. Maybe the installing engineer will decide to replace that length and, thus, take off the feed for the new NTE5/A at the external junction, as (2) above.


Hmm i think i best nip to the super in the morning ready for Thursday and get stocked up lol were running on empty at the moment 2 teabags and a dreg of milk left ha.

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 03:57:11
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
Hmm i think i best nip to the super in the morning ready for Thursday and get stocked up lol were running on empty at the moment 2 teabags and a dreg of milk left ha.
Please don't buy everything -- leave some for me! I also need to do some grocery shopping but my current, main, priority that I hear my bed calling me. wink

I'll check back once the job has been done on Thursday and you've updated this thread with all the details.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 04:01:13
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
Hmm i think i best nip to the super in the morning ready for Thursday and get stocked up lol were running on empty at the moment 2 teabags and a dreg of milk left ha.
Please don't buy everything -- leave some for me! I also need to do some grocery shopping but my current, main, priority that I hear my bed calling me. wink

I'll check back once the job has been done on Thursday and you've updated this thread with all the details.


ok ill leave a few bits just for you lol there coming between 1and 6 although last time it say that he was banging on my door at 9 lol ill update once hes gone

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Wed 16-Nov-11 15:09:27
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
I also think it would be odd for lines in the same cabinet to take a different path to the exchange, but I base that on logic and planning ahead, rather than what BT might actually have done smile

Re: the NTE5, I was expecting to see wiring like http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=bt+master+socket+wi...
this if it was fairly new. Looks like two cables are snipped as they enter the socket, maybe there is a 2nd pair there

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-Nov-11 16:02:11
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
The oddities in BT wiring tend to arise as when the wiring went in many years ago it was probably logical, new properties, cabling faults and a policy that requires phone faults to be dealt with as quickly as possible has resulted in a many oddities and some not neccessarily documented.

That picture shows an extension off the faceplate that vanishes into some trunking in the house, and not the incoming wiring to the A/B connectors which are not visible in that picture.

BT does not generally snip wires back, but coil them up, since they may be required later if a wire in a pair breaks.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 16:04:57
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
I also think it would be odd for lines in the same cabinet to take a different path to the exchange, but I base that on logic and planning ahead, rather than what BT might actually have done smile

Re: the NTE5, I was expecting to see wiring like http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=bt+master+socket+wi...
this if it was fairly new. Looks like two cables are snipped as they enter the socket, maybe there is a 2nd pair there


Yes the first thing i noticed was some cables has been snipped too, the line was put in march by open reach for sky (so tomorro will have one with sky one with talktalk) so its defo new my faceplate only has 3 terminals inside it too labled 2 3 5 were as the one in the pic as 1-6

This is the line from the outside i dont supose it makes a diff to anything but thought id mention it the original line that was riped out 16 year ago was inside that little box the grey wire you can see (painted) was originally inside the little white box and that went straight down the wall threw a hole in the front door frame before it was pulled out of course.

when they fitted the new line they attached the black tube thing between the old cable and the new cable which now runs around the wall to the back of the house to my bedroom were my comp is. Thats to the NTE5 in my other pic so without looking inside the tube no way to tell if the old wire is 1 or 2 pair my thinking from what other people have posted is that the old wire and the new wire have a diff amount of cables and thats why theres some cut off in the new NTE5 socket could be wrong of course thats just my thinking

BT does not generally snip wires back, but coil them up, since they may be required later if a wire in a pair breaks.


there are defo 2 cables snipped in there but as i say seen as i dont know what they are they may be redundant cables so that might be why there snipped from the tiny bit that still shows they are both white as i say i dont no to much about the subject so only the original engineer would no why he did it lol

PS if
That picture shows an extension off the faceplate that vanishes into some trunking in the house, and not the incoming wiring to the A/B connectors which are not visible in that picture.

was about my pic there are no extensions going anywhere from the NTE socket its self just 1 extension that go's to a sky box that i wired in my self that goes on terminals 2/5 on the faceplate if you was talking about the picture of some one else's socket sorry about the confusion
Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 16-Nov-11 16:13:47)

Standard User Myth
(member) Wed 16-Nov-11 16:32:57
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
i meant to say wires like this, not wiring, soz. I was thinking of colours and thickness when I was looking at it. But I did think the grey sheathed cable was the main line in and I see now that it is the extension leading off into a dual-skin wall. oops wink

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User Myth
(member) Wed 16-Nov-11 16:39:30
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
Also us wanted to add, while this discussion is interesting, rest assured that the BT man
will do anything necessary to provide that line (unless the pole is unsafe to climb up for instance) as part of the job.

It might be worth mentioning the possible extra attenuation you are suffering with, as he might see an obvious problem (in that black tubing for instance) that is easy to fix. I think I'm right in saying attenuation spikes are most likely where two metals meet

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 17:05:57
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
Also us wanted to add, while this discussion is interesting, rest assured that the BT man
will do anything necessary to provide that line (unless the pole is unsafe to climb up for instance) as part of the job.

It might be worth mentioning the possible extra attenuation you are suffering with, as he might see an obvious problem (in that black tubing for instance) that is easy to fix. I think I'm right in saying attenuation spikes are most likely where two metals meet


Thats good thinking while hes here no harm in asking,
The odd thing is when the line first got fitted it started at 32 so more less on par with the others but then after about a day it spiked up to 37.5 which its stayed at ever since.
Except for that 20 mins were the guy mixed mine and the neighbours lines and it dropped to 30 i got right happy about that my first instinct was oh maybe the cable was wore away under the floor and now its fixed its fixed the attenuation at the same time,
Then he knocked on door to do a phone test and said oh not good ive got lines mixed up i was like oh right he said 5 mins al switch them round 5 mins later knock on door right done can i check phone again, yea sure, right your numbers back, ok thanks for letting me know cya, went to check internet was ok oh dear back upto 37.5 oh S**T!! lol

just you watch tomorrow something will happen which makes it a nightmare to install then when the BB gos live it will be worse than the sky line that is purely just my luck lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 16-Nov-11 17:07:31)

Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 17:32:53
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
Looks like two cables are snipped as they enter the socket, maybe there is a 2nd pair there
There are two pairs present in Ash's first picture (at the existing NTE5/A), the orange & white wires (pair 1) and the green & black wires (pair 2). What you are seeing and commenting about as being "snipped" are the three white sleeved steel catenary wires. (Look closely and you will see them at the 2 o'clock, 7 o'clock & 9 o'clock positions.) The are not conductors but stiffening / support wires. So, to reiterate, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that photograph. wink

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.

Edited by burakkucat (Wed 16-Nov-11 17:42:39)

Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 18:30:00
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
Looks like two cables are snipped as they enter the socket, maybe there is a 2nd pair there
There are two pairs present in Ash's first picture (at the existing NTE5/A), the orange & white wires (pair 1) and the green & black wires (pair 2). What you are seeing and commenting about as being "snipped" are the three white sleeved steel catenary wires. (Look closely and you will see them at the 2 o'clock, 7 o'clock & 9 o'clock positions.) The are not conductors but stiffening / support wires. So, to reiterate, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that photograph. wink


that clears things up a bit so basically those snipped wire are useless and just about making the outside cable stronger laugh

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 18:37:52
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
Yep, you've got it. wink

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100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 18:46:32
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
Yep, you've got it. wink


this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole just trying to find out as much info as possible really

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 19:25:04
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 20:04:32
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.


right nice bit of info there the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into that's about all i know about it so it gos back to it i wont find out anything until tomorrow when its actually done and fingers crossed it all gos well lol.

FTTC gos active December 1st (was sept 31st then dec 31s but on the latest BT openreach PDF thing its finalised at dec 1st witch talktalk seamed to confirm) so ill only be on there adsl a few week am i right in thinking then. That once connected to FTTC it no longer matters how long the line ends up going to the exchange just how far to the cab.

This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster ive seen people with estimates of 26 get full speed.

Sorry for asking so many questions i just like to get as much info about these things as pos lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:13:45
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into
Right, I've now seen it from the Google Street View.
This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster
I've followed the route from cabinet to pole and then back again, looking at everything of interest on the way. As you've been told by an OR engineer that that is the route your current line takes to the PCP, let's add a bit on to the 400 metres distance given by Google Maps -- say 450 metres.

A predicted 30 - 32 Mbps sounds about right for that distance. However, as most of us know, the estimated value is often on the low side, so you might see ~35 Mbps.

My neighbours line has been measured electronically (with a 301C Pulse Echo Tester) at exactly 400 metres / 440 yards / one quarter of a mile. Here is the part of the output obtained from the modem --
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24805 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73424 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.8 22.2
There are three things to note from that output:

(1) He has already been upgraded from Profile 8c to Profile 17a.
(2) The line beginning "Max:" shows the maximum attainable rate for his line (if not capped).
(3) The line beginning "Path:" shows his current line rate.

When a BT Wholesale Performance Test was run, that line showed 35 Mbps (down) and 8 Mbps (up).

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:26:05
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
the pole im on has 1 thickish wire going up it (from behind the metal case ting) then at the top theres 1 box what the lines go into
Right, I've now seen it from the Google Street View.
This is a map of pole to cabinet the exact route my current line takes (told by open reach engineer) predicted 30-32/12.13 for up altho with TT its caped at 2 dose that sound about right or could it go faster
I've followed the route from cabinet to pole and then back again, looking at everything of interest on the way. As you've been told by an OR engineer that that is the route your current line takes to the PCP, let's add a bit on to the 400 metres distance given by Google Maps -- say 450 metres.

A predicted 30 - 32 Mbps sounds about right for that distance. However, as most of us know, the estimated value is often on the low side, so you might see ~35 Mbps.

My neighbours line has been measured electronically (with a 301C Pulse Echo Tester) at exactly 400 metres / 440 yards / one quarter of a mile. Here is the part of the output obtained from the modem --
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24805 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73424 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.8 22.2
There are three things to note from that output:

(1) He has already been upgraded from Profile 8c to Profile 17a.
(2) The line beginning "Max:" shows the maximum attainable rate for his line (if not capped).
(3) The line beginning "Path:" shows his current line rate.

When a BT Wholesale Performance Test was run, that line showed 35 Mbps (down) and 8 Mbps (up).


right thanks for that info 35 sounds fine im used to 50/100 but the way virgin media have treated me this past few months since rejoining them they can suck a lemon

seen as going direct with BT isnt an option for me (mum wont let them anything near the house lol im lucky she lets OR near with them been a part of BT lol some thing happened in the past thats mad her hold a grudge for 16 year so i tend to to question her lol) so i thought id give talktalk a try they seam to be the only other unlimited provider who do phone and cost under £30 besides BT but im diverting a bit 35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

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Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Wed 16-Nov-11 23:40:48
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol
Well, you can tell us all about it in a week's time from now . . . smile

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 00:11:55
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
35+meg and ill be very happy its my luck ill have a big prob though lol i can grantee that lol
Well, you can tell us all about it in a week's time from now . . . smile


haha well a few week anyway lol like i say it dont become available till 1/12/11 then goto wait for an appointment to fit lol

phone and adsl today(thursday) so al update this threw id any probs wi that lol

Ash

ROUTERS just arrived so just goto wait for the person to come from OR 1hour 15 mins to go for the time frame lol

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Thu 17-Nov-11 10:46:40)

Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 15:02:08
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
half way threw the time slot now no ones been or called im sure there supposed to ring you the morning of or night before to double confirm the time they did with the sky line hmmm did say it was my luck something would go wrong though lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 17:08:25
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
this may seam obvious to some but im still a little confused if my external line from house to pole (the part before the little black joiner) dose have 2 pairs after all and they do both lines off that 1 line, Dose that mean that both lines will share a wire all the way back to the cab or just the wire between my house and the pole
Let's assume you go out and stand at the foot of the pole. What do you see? At least one (maybe more) multipair cables coming out of the ground, travelling up the pole (under a galvanised steel protective "U" cover until above the height of the average chav's reach) to one (maybe more) junction box(es) at the top.

At the pole head, your drop cable is attached to a "halo" ring and then enters the junction box. Within that box, the working pair of your drop cable is connected to the bigger multipair cable which, as you have already noticed, comes out of the ground. That multipair cable then travels to a jointing chamber where it is, in turn, connected to an even bigger cable which makes its way to the PCP. At the cabinet, all those D-side pairs are then "fanned out" and are connected to air pressurised E-side cable(s) which run to the exchange. If there is more than one E-side cable feeding the PCP it is at that point were one pair coming from an EU (you) could be connected to one E-side cable and the second EU pair could be connected to a different E-side cable.

So, in summary, you could end up with this situation with your two lines:

(1) Two separate NTE5/A in separate locations in the house, each fed by its own cable.
(2) Those two cables are joined at a "black sausage" (at gutter level) to a single multipair drop cable.
(3) At the pole head, the two pairs in the drop cable are connected to a bigger multipair cable.
(4) The multipair cable descends the pole and travels to a joint chamber.
(5) In the joint chamber, the multipair cable is connected to an even bigger cable.
(6) At the PCP all the D-side pairs are "fanned out" and connected to (one or more) E-side cables.
(7) The E-side cables travel to the exchange.

Obviously every situation is different and what I have just described is what may be the case for you, after Thursday.


What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Hes now just gone to attach it to the other end back to the exchange and that but he said there's a small chance that he might not get it finished tonight depending how much work along the way needs doing,
Because he finishes at 6 but hes saidhes hoping it will be simple enough to finish tonight and if he cant finish it hell be back at 8AM tomorrow morning first job but i wont have to wait in because he wont need access to the house now hell just post a note to sy when its done and to keep an eye out for the DSL coming on

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 17:20:39
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Has he taken the new cable back outside the house to route it around to the new NTE5/A's location or was he able to run the cable internally, within the house?

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Thu 17-Nov-11 18:16:01
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
What hes done it attached the new line to the back of the first NTE5 socket (with the second pair) to save messing about running a second cable from the black log thing.
Has he taken the new cable back outside the house to route it around to the new NTE5/A's location or was he able to run the cable internally, within the house?


hes done it internal, In the end i had them put closer to each other (not next to each other but close) so he used the second pair in the NTE5 that was there from sky 1

Ash

EDIT just had a text off him

unable to get line working today theres a fault with underground cable back tomorrow morning from BT open reach

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Thu 17-Nov-11 20:15:50)

Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 12:14:07
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
Also us wanted to add, while this discussion is interesting, rest assured that the BT man
will do anything necessary to provide that line (unless the pole is unsafe to climb up for instance) as part of the job.

It might be worth mentioning the possible extra attenuation you are suffering with, as he might see an obvious problem (in that black tubing for instance) that is easy to fix. I think I'm right in saying attenuation spikes are most likely where two metals meet


these are my side by side comparison stats

Talktalk stats

Mode
Routing
ADSL Mode ADSL2+
ADSL Type Annex A
Status Up

Downstream Upstream
Rate(Kbps) 9121 871

SNR Margin(dB) 12.0 12.2
Attenuation(dB) 21.4 40.0
Output Power(dBm) 0 12

Super Frames 2995 2996
RS Correctable Errors 17 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0

HEC Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3743 1572
Data Cells 3743 1572
Bit Errors 0 0

Sky stats

System Up Time: 78:36:18
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 62424 89001 0 5703752 111953449 19:13:13
LAN Down 0 0 0 0 0 78:36:18
WLAN Up 379450 244311 0 352395503 49615429 78:35:59
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8768 kbps 796 kbps
Line Attenuation 37.5 dB 20.5 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 12.0 dB

has the talk talk router got the Attenuation backwards because on my sky router the upsteam is half the downstream but on the talk talk route is seams the down streams half the upstream.

Also i some how doubt my down stream atten is 21 that would insinuate im about 1.5KM from the exchange on sam knows it says You are approximately 1.22km from the exchange. Note that this is the straight line distance - the actual cable length will be longer!

and if this line takes the same route as the sky one dose wich i presume it will do yea i know it might be a diff cable of course but im presuming it go's t the same cab at least ang acording to google maps see link and the length of the route the skyline and i presuming the talktalk line is a minimum of 1.92KM walkin distance so cable will be longer unless its supriced me took a total diff rout and go's some were else but i doubt it i think thats the only cab anyhing near me. so confused now lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 12:43:14
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
Downstream Upstream
Rate(Kbps) 9121 871

SNR Margin(dB) 12.0 12.2
Attenuation(dB) 21.4 40.0
Output Power(dBm) 0 12


Yeah looks like the Talktalk router has got the attenuation the wrong way round. Also i suggest you register on the TT forums (if not already done) and ask to be put on a "24FSNR6" profile - this will lower your downstream SNR to 6db and also put you on a fastpath profile. Your sync speed should increase by a few megabits.

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
Pioneer Kuro 428XD ISF'd
iPhone 4S 16gb
ThinkPad X220
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 12:49:07
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
Downstream Upstream
Rate(Kbps) 9121 871

SNR Margin(dB) 12.0 12.2
Attenuation(dB) 21.4 40.0
Output Power(dBm) 0 12


Yeah looks like the Talktalk router has got the attenuation the wrong way round. Also i suggest you register on the TT forums (if not already done) and ask to be put on a "24FSNR6" profile - this will lower your downstream SNR to 6db and also put you on a fastpath profile. Your sync speed should increase by a few megabits.


ive started that i just send my accoun/PN to the contact us it says ive goto do that b4 i can register

I did say on here though it would be my luck for this line to be worse than my sky line stat wise lol the ironical thing is the talktalks faster, Although i think that's the dodgy sky router causing that when i used to have my belkin N1 in it was 9.5 and just under 11 after using DMT tools but it broke so had to plug sky 1 back in lol i supose im doomed to have nealy all my neighbours on faster ADSL speeds than me haha

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

Edited by acpsd775 (Fri 18-Nov-11 12:52:02)

ISP Representative TALKTALK_SUPPORT
(isp) Fri 18-Nov-11 14:43:23
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
HI Ash,

The Contact us Inbox is reletively upto date so you should have a reply to the form you submitted shortly.

Once registered if you post in the BB sections we can address the profile change request and any other issues you may have.

Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department

TalkTalk, Online Community
www.talktalkmembers.co.uk/forums
"The information contained within these posts is provided by TalkTalk
to assist in the resolution of any queries our customers may have. Should you
have a specific request for information please do not hesitate to contact me."
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 15:47:57
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: TALKTALK_SUPPORT] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TALKTALK_SUPPORT:
HI Ash,

The Contact us Inbox is reletively upto date so you should have a reply to the form you submitted shortly.

Once registered if you post in the BB sections we can address the profile change request and any other issues you may have.

Regards

Mark
TalkTalk Online Community Department


just got my confirm back and now registered just posting now

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 16:59:38
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
when i had an engineer out in 2004 he found a place in the wire just before it entered the house where it had kinda rusted. I think because of the age of the wire he replaced the whole wire from the pole.
Seems like alot of extra work to go through just to fix a break, but maybe this was policy with certain age wires etc. Thinking back I think this wire was just a twin core like bell wire, so that might have been the reason also.

Previously had a 2nd line in another house and the engineer lady just added to the master socket (wasnt nte5), because there was an available 2nd pair. Broadband didn't exist then though so I don't think she had to do many tests on the wire to see if it was viable.

So I think NTE5 access is necessary, yes


going back on the convo a bit here but just thought id let ya know theyve used diff cable in the new line its more like what was in the 70s line they really ought to start using the same cable in all lines lol

Line 1
Line 2

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Fri 18-Nov-11 17:03:00
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
burakkucat could maybe explain why they are different. But those are the wires I was expecting lol

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 17:31:07
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
yea TBH when i first saw the wiring in the first socket i always thought im sure the old 1 had more cables and more colours but then i thought well considering the original socket was from the 70s and with BT, That maybe new cables were diff and maybe something to do with it been a wholesale open reach line and never thought anything about it again. Well
till needing the second line that is, Then when i looked in the new one today with that cabling i was like well that's taking a bit of the p**s its like old one now how confusing lol

i did tell you it was my luck that the new one would be worse didn't i lol the attens 2 higher on this 1 so im presuming its even longer than the firsts lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Fri 18-Nov-11 17:41:20
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
your sky stats dont say the ADSL mode it is connecting with.

ADSL2+ will add 3db to the attenuation of g.DMT, and sky could be using g.DMT as it's DSL mode

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 17:46:51
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
your sky stats dont say the ADSL mode it is connecting with.

ADSL2+ will add 3db to the attenuation of g.DMT, and sky could be using g.DMT as it's DSL mode


They use ADSL2/+ The sky router auto connects to ADSL2+ from what ive read anyway. Also when i used to use my belkin N1 b4 is broke i always forced it onto ADSL2+ and the atten was exactly same well the belkin shows 37 were as the sky shows 37.5 that's the only diff.

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Fri 18-Nov-11 17:55:29
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
auto will try ADSL2+ first, but can connect to g.DMT after if 2+ seems iffy. This happens here which is why I mentioned it. Am on higher attenuation here though, and 2+ is flaky even if it syncs. I force g.DMT and all is pretty solid.

It does sound like your sky is 2+ though.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 18:02:46
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
auto will try ADSL2+ first, but can connect to g.DMT after if 2+ seems iffy. This happens here which is why I mentioned it. Am on higher attenuation here though, and 2+ is flaky even if it syncs. I force g.DMT and all is pretty solid.

It does sound like your sky is 2+ though.


don't g.DMT cap you at 8 max though or am i thinking of something else. I know my sky router is synkin at 8 at mo but after a few days it slowly creeps up to just over 9 its just i unplugged it in and out a few times in a row over the few hours other day so its slowed down a bit i do miss the Belkin though it always got faster speeds on that it got the speed in my sig with the belkin, skys router is horrible lol horrid wireless horrid web interface and horrid speeds compared to other routers,
I keep thinking to get a new router but TBH seen as the only thing its used for is mobiles wifi to connect to and a backup incase my main (VM now talktalk) net gos down i never bother lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Nov-11 18:16:16
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
No, I take that back. I was thinking of BT's ADSL Max.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 17 Meg Untweaked 19 Meg Tweaked WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 18-Nov-11 18:19:58)

Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 18:23:27
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
No, I take that back. I was thinking of BT's ADSL Max.


What do you take back this is your first comment on this topic lol, im lost (dont take much though lol)

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Fri 18-Nov-11 18:30:20
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
he edited this



In reply to a post by Myth:sky could be using g.DMT as it's DSL mode

No, your upload would then be 448 Kbps.

but then realised he was thinking of the ADSLmax option on TalkTalk. ADSLMax can do 832 upload sync but not with TalkTalk

ADSLMax is always g.DMT (I think) hence the confusion. Plus, it's probably a while since most of us used ADSLmax

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 18:39:40
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
he edited this



In reply to a post by Myth:sky could be using g.DMT as it's DSL mode

No, your upload would then be 448 Kbps.

but then realised he was thinking of the ADSLmax option on TalkTalk. ADSLMax can do 832 upload sync but not with TalkTalk

ADSLMax is always g.DMT (I think) hence the confusion. Plus, it's probably a while since most of us used ADSLmax


ah did'nt see it lol ive never used it so i wouldn't of known any diff lol all i really know about adsl is that adsl1 was maxed 8 adsl2 maxed 12 and 2+ maxed at 24 other than that dont know too much about it i dont know all the other names for all the modes and stuff lol,

Oh well hopefully FTTC dont get delayed again, The engineer did say that BT had been messing in the exchange to do with FTTC the past week sorting the problems out that delayed it to start with so the date mentioned now should finally be the right one lol.

What worry's me more on that note is postcode/line checker for sky line says FTTC available 1/12/12 (talktalk line 2 new for this) but on the talktalk FTTC checker i put my TT number in and it says ***TalkTalk Fibre Optic broadband isn't available in your area Currently we don't have confirmed roll out plans*** even though i no 100% both lines do connect to the same cab and was told on the phone before i orded that the 1/12/11 was correct it would be fine im starting to think they just said that to get the order threw lol.

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Nov-11 19:19:39
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
I took it back from the poster I was replying to. As it was wrong, I saw no point in propagating it to the rest of you, but am glad that it triggered an interesting discussion for you grin

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 17 Meg Untweaked 19 Meg Tweaked WBC
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 19:49:22
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
going back on the convo a bit here but just thought id let ya know theyve used diff cable in the new line its more like what was in the 70s line they really ought to start using the same cable in all lines lol

Line 1
Line 2
Hi Ash,

I've just looked at your two pictures. Let me assure you that everything is exactly as it should be -- there is nothing wrong with the standard of the wiring or the cables used at each of the sockets. I had better explain --

Looking at the picture of the cable and its internal wires at the original socket, we see the incoming (that is coming into the house) service cable is a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 dropwire -- the orange & white wires are the first pair and the green & black wires are the second pair. (The italicised words are a direct copy / paste from my posting on Wed 16-Nov-11 at 02:44:29.)

Looking at the picture of the cable and its internal wires at the new socket, we see that an appropriate grade CW1308, four pair, internal cable has been used. Remember, that cable is only within the house. It does not have to be resistant to UV light and it does not have to have stiffening / strengthening steel catenary wires within it. Within that cable, pair 1 is the blue+white stripe & white+blue stripe, pair 2 is the orange+white stripe & white+orange stripe, pair 3 is the green+white stripe & white+green stripe and pair 4 is the brown+white stripe & white+brown stripe.

It is fairly clear (to me) that the first pair (the blue pair) of the CW1308 internal grade cable is used to connect the second incoming pair (on the green and black wires of the two pair incoming service cable), via gel-crimps in the backing box of NTE5/A number one, to the new NTE5/A number two.

Hope that helps. smile

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 20:33:38
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
going back on the convo a bit here but just thought id let ya know theyve used diff cable in the new line its more like what was in the 70s line they really ought to start using the same cable in all lines lol

Line 1
Line 2
Hi Ash,

I've just looked at your two pictures. Let me assure you that everything is exactly as it should be -- there is nothing wrong with the standard of the wiring or the cables used at each of the sockets. I had better explain --

Looking at the picture of the cable and its internal wires at the original socket, we see the incoming (that is coming into the house) service cable is a CW1411 two twisted pair No. 12 dropwire -- the orange & white wires are the first pair and the green & black wires are the second pair. (The italicised words are a direct copy / paste from my posting on Wed 16-Nov-11 at 02:44:29.)

Looking at the picture of the cable and its internal wires at the new socket, we see that an appropriate grade CW1308, four pair, internal cable has been used. Remember, that cable is only within the house. It does not have to be resistant to UV light and it does not have to have stiffening / strengthening steel catenary wires within it. Within that cable, pair 1 is the blue+white stripe & white+blue stripe, pair 2 is the orange+white stripe & white+orange stripe, pair 3 is the green+white stripe & white+green stripe and pair 4 is the brown+white stripe & white+brown stripe.

It is fairly clear (to me) that the first pair (the blue pair) of the CW1308 internal grade cable is used to connect the second incoming pair (on the green and black wires of the two pair incoming service cable), via gel-crimps in the backing box of NTE5/A number one, to the new NTE5/A number two.

Hope that helps. smile


Right im with ya everything seams fine just wish this line would of had a lower atten to match the other people i no on the same pole lol but that's in an ideal world and this worlds far from idea lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 20:40:52
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
just wish this line would of had a lower atten to match the other people i no on the same pole lol
At this very early stage, the only advice I'd give is to allow the connection some time. Just make use of it, without any "fiddling" and allow it to stabilise. (I know it is difficult to resist the temptation to try a tweak. wink )

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 20:41:52
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
just wish this line would of had a lower atten to match the other people i no on the same pole lol
At this very early stage, the only advice I'd give is to allow the connection some time. Just make use of it, without any "fiddling" and allow it to stabilise. (I know it is difficult to resist the temptation to try a tweak. wink )


i dident actually think it was possible to tweak the atten lol so i would not of tried lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 20:53:53
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
Oops. I was just referring to "fiddling" in general.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 18-Nov-11 20:56:01
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
Oops. I was just referring to "fiddling" in general.


oh haha its the default TT router so not much to fiddle with TBH haha no point me gettin another coz hopefully if BT get off there buts ill only have this ADSL till dec then be on FTTC ive already got a cable netgear router ill be using with that so am not wasting money on an ADSL router i can fiddle with for sake of a month lol

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Sun 20-Nov-11 04:03:02
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Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
ohhh good new TTs websites been updated says i can order from the 1st of December so now thats the TT checker sam knows and BT checker all saying 1/11/12 so looks like this time the dats right and no more delays lol.

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
Standard User Myth
(member) Fri 25-Nov-11 18:51:59
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
ah did'nt see it lol ive never used it so i wouldn't of known any diff lol all i really know about adsl is that adsl1 was maxed 8 adsl2 maxed 12 and 2+ maxed at 24 other than that dont know too much about it i dont know all the other names for all the modes and stuff lol,


not trying to be annoying, just a little more correct:

adslMAX was the rate adaptive adsl that maxed at 8mbit (8192 sync) but before that the first adsl was a fixed 512kbps download, then 1024 and 2272 (or similar). I think after the 2mbit option, they introduced the up to 8mbit which was rate adaptive adslMAX.

Correct me if I'm wrong ppl wink

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 25-Nov-11 21:06:51
Print Post

Re: New lines TalkTalk (openreach question) - DELETED


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
ah did'nt see it lol ive never used it so i wouldn't of known any diff lol all i really know about adsl is that adsl1 was maxed 8 adsl2 maxed 12 and 2+ maxed at 24 other than that dont know too much about it i dont know all the other names for all the modes and stuff lol,


not trying to be annoying, just a little more correct:

adslMAX was the rate adaptive adsl that maxed at 8mbit (8192 sync) but before that the first adsl was a fixed 512kbps download, then 1024 and 2272 (or similar). I think after the 2mbit option, they introduced the up to 8mbit which was rate adaptive adslMAX.

Correct me if I'm wrong ppl wink


lol yea your right lol i was just grouping it all as ADSL1 haha

Ash

Sky + TalkTalk
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U(current) 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg(disconnected15/12/11) =>17/11/11 Talktalk to be updated

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like
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