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Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 14:53:49
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Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[link to this post]
 
Basically to sum everything up I have been on Holiday for the last 2 weeks.

When I got back I opened all my post To see a Letter from BT stating that I have moved my Phone / Broadband to another provider. I did manage to find the provider who seems to be talktalk as I also had letters from them.

Upon calling talktalk it said on some automated system that the service would be active from Tomorrow. I currently have BT Infinity at my property and they did say a BT Engineer would be called out. So I'm not sure what to think.

The Adviser on the phone could not tell me anything regarding the account as I'm not the account holder. When I ask to speak to a Manager they put me on hold for hours and I end up getting cut off.

Still on the call

Edited by uppi (Wed 11-Sep-13 14:55:16)

Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 15:21:09
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
44 Minutes on the phone this time.

Got through to a manager who said they will get back to me Tomorrow.

A router has arrived but I'm not sure if my service is being migrated from VDSL to ADSL. so I'm worried as I could loose my broadband service. The talktalk router looks like a BT Homehub.

Edited by uppi (Wed 11-Sep-13 15:51:56)

Standard User timl
(committed) Wed 11-Sep-13 17:02:45
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
If I was you I'd call up your current provider, BT, and ask them to help you stop the transfer. It may be to late but it's worth a shot. It's better than waiting for a manager from Talktalk to contact you tomorrow.

Plusnet unlimited FTTC


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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 18:06:29
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
So did you place an order with TT ? As you haven't provided any background info as to how this came about ,If you ordered any services from tt wich services did you order ?
As for your existing FTTC service this may end up being ceased and BT will charge you a ceastation fee, unless you had arraged to leave them, by requesting a MAC code and giving the required notice
Standard User eckiedoo
(member) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:24:07
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
"The Adviser on the phone could not tell me anything regarding the account as I'm not the account holder."

Have you spoken to "the account holder", as you clearly state that you are not that person?
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:30:31
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
So did you place an order with TT ?

Probably not, since the OP is not the account holder.

Oliver.
Standard User brushton
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:41:25
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
This - or something very like this - happened to my octogenarian parents earlier in the year.

They got a letter from BT saying "sorry to hear you're leaving etc, your service will end on [date]". My Dad called them up and said they'd never asked to move, were happy with the service and wanted to stay. The BT droid said the termination had been cancelled so they had nothing to worry about.

A week or so later my parents' phone line stopped working frown Some hours later they had a dialling tone but their old number didn't work. After an hour or two my brother and I figured out the new number was a TT one, so we "took it to the top" wink Even so it took 2 weeks to get things back to normal, and no-one could contact my folks on their old number in that time frown

Long story short, my parents' number had been incorrectly entered into the system by a TT droid who'd been advised about a house move (someone else's house move). This triggered the automated transfers which the BT droid was supposed to have blocked, but messed up. (Said droid was subsequently given "coaching" by BT). Hence the transfer happened, and it's a nightmare to unravel, they just can't cope with it frown

It sounds like something similar might have happened with your number, but at this late stage you might just have to escalate as best you can, and be patient for a week or two while they unwind things frown

Hope this helps
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:48:15
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: brushton] [link to this post]
 
Hold on a second, so you're saying... any company (ISP) can file an "automated" transfer request with BT, for any number (in your case, a typo'd one, that just so happened to be your parents'), and BT just go "yeah, sure, whatever" and let the transfer proceed through without making contact with the line owner to first confirm that this is indeed valid, and that they are aware of the transfer request? Seriously?

All they do instead is send out an automated computer generated letter saying "sorry to hear you're leaving" ?

This entire system is so broken beyond belief, I have no idea where to start. frown

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:51:01
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: brushton] [link to this post]
 
2 weeks which isn't good enough, If some company slams your line, they should be fined and the customer should be comphensated, by the provider responsible for slamming ,at a set rate for every day until their original services are re instated

1week is too long never mind 2 weeks
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 19:53:01
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
well the title of the topic says "my services"
Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT)
Standard User brushton
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 20:16:37
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Agreed.

I think BT actually gave my folks about £25 as a sweetener. I did think (and might have suggested) a bunch of flowers would have been nice, but nothing like that happened frown By that stage I was too worn down to argue any further, it was enough that my folks had their line back. To be fair to TT, and the lady in their Exec Complaints Dept, they were doing their best to fight the automated systems whilst trying to maintain a working phone for my parents, and she did call me every day to keep me informed. The fault really was that the BT failsafe didn't work frown

It might have been easier/quicker for TT to submit a desist, wait, then get BT to place a reprovision, but with my folks needing a working phone line this wasn't really an option.

However, it should be just as quick/easy for it to be unwound as it is for them to mess it up in the first place!

We did submit a complaint to OfCom but never heard anything of it...
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 20:16:40
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
well the title of the topic says "my services"
Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT)

Unless the OP is saying the agent was saying they are not the account holder when in fact they are.

Oliver.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 20:49:53
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Which could indicate that the OP had not had any contact with TT before they recieved the Automated leter from their service provider BT retail
If this is the case and they tt have someone elses name for the account on his line, then it's a big error by TT
If the op isn't the account holder, then they could have a free broadband and telephone service, or would using this unwanted service be deemed as accepting it?
If not run a massive bill up, but first buy several premium rate numbers then run up a bill and also make a profit,lol oh and don't pay the slammer a penny
Standard User brushton
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 21:12:27
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
I was just as shocked but yes, that seems to be what happens frown

Quite how they think that sending out a letter - and waiting (a short while) for the customer to object - constitutes a failsafe is beyond me. They can't have heard of letters going astray or (as in my case) the BT droid not correctly cancelling the cease. BT even admitted having a record of my father saying he didn't want to lose the line frown

Utter, utter incompetence...
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 21:41:44
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Probably time the OP clarified some points.

Oliver.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 21:46:48
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: brushton] [link to this post]
 
Seems someone is trying to annoy me personally either one of my brothers. As it is something they would do.

How ever no mac code was provided to TalkTalk it is to late to stop the Transfer it goes live in 6 hours So no Luck.

But I'm actually out of contract with BT Upon request earlier on Today they said they had given me the benefit of doubt and removed my 9 month contract as I was entered into a new 18 month contract during a contract I had already was 9+ months into and was not told that I would actually have to be with BT for another 18 Months.

How ever talktalk seem cheaper then BT with the half price for 6 months deal. £28.50 including TV for 6 months and Unlimited FTTC I'm paying over £65 a month with phone / broadband as my BT call baring won't work and people like to run up the bill ringing mobile phones.

So this is a bonus for me now after speaking with a sales rep how ever the account still does not remain in my name. They also sent me a YouView Box Today and the new router that I plugged up my net on seems better then the BT HomeHub.

http://puu.sh/4oUmi.png

But I wanted to continue with BT without being on contract to Later move to Sky but talktalk seem promising now.

Edited by uppi (Wed 11-Sep-13 22:01:29)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:27:22
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Out of pan in fire , ah well
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:33:45
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Can talktalk possibly move the account over to me if I provide proof I was the old Account Holder Maybe getting BT To contact talktalk?

I'm out of contract with BT and they can offer me a better deal so who would not jump at the opportunity to change ISP if it was 65% cheaper every month.

Edited by uppi (Wed 11-Sep-13 22:35:53)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:46:57
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
No mac is needed for a move to full llu. Procedure to sort this out will be slow, particularly if talktalk double check info and all was correct

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:50:08
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: brushton] [link to this post]
 
Bt not actioning the stop request if given in normal time frame means you can ask them to bend more and get things sorted out

If bt does not pick up the ball on this then email me [email protected] and will see if they will listen

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:51:50
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Not a good idea as then debt goes to collectors starts appearing on credit checks etc etc

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:55:01
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Not a good idea as then debt goes to collectors starts appearing on credit checks etc etc

"Seems someone is trying to annoy me personally either one of my brothers".

If I take that to mean one of his/her brothers signed up to Talktalk as a "joke", perhaps that would teach the brother a lesson. Unless of course the brother used the OP's bank details in which case I'd probably be ringing the police.

Oliver.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:57:53
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
No mac is needed for a move to full llu. Procedure to sort this out will be slow, particularly if talktalk double check info and all was correct


Order is for FTTC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Sep-13 22:58:35
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Credit score would hit both account and address

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Wed 11-Sep-13 23:09:10
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Credit score would hit both account and address


What are you going on about?

I'm not in contract with BT Anymore and the services with talktalk I hope can be migrated into my details as it is cheaper.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 23:29:45
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
As for getting the account put in the correct name, i wish you luck on that, you will need all you can get , the cheapest is not always the best it's usually cheap for a reason, I you ain't already worked out how bad their customer support are you never will

And who wouldn't switch to tt because it's 65% cheaper , i would be one such person, infact if it was free i wouldn't switch to tt or sky ,
And as for them being so cheap. there not really, line rental isn't particularly cheap, the calling plans don't include any sms text messages ,they charge for caller id and being successful of remaining ex directory and keeping you number if you move away ,well theres probably a 90% of that not happening

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 11-Sep-13 23:50:17)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Sep-13 23:32:02
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
But if the account isn't in his name then they would be waisting their time trying to collect a debt that the householder didn't owe as the tt account isn't in his name so it follows the debt wouldn't be either,
If this happened they may be more careful I can't believe they did proper checks before accepting the order and processing it
As for the credit score affecting the address , if you are able to proove the person named has never or no longer lives at the address that should cease to be an issue, But i'm fairly sure the address no longer is affected only the individual debter

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 11-Sep-13 23:39:29)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Sep-13 23:57:14
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Still full llu as the phone is unbundled

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Sep-13 00:41:14
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: brushton] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brushton:
Quite how they think that sending out a letter - and waiting (a short while) for the customer to object - constitutes a failsafe is beyond me. They can't have heard of letters going astray or (as in my case) the BT droid not correctly cancelling the cease. BT even admitted having a record of my father saying he didn't want to lose the line frown


I recently switched line rental from BT Retail to another WLR provider and I got 3 separate types of communication from BT Retail saying: "another provider has told us you want to move your service" by spoken text message on my landline phone, by email and by letter. I received all those communications well within the notice period of 14 days.
Standard User eckiedoo
(member) Thu 12-Sep-13 07:16:35
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Please make up your mind!

"I'm not in contract with BT Anymore and the services with talktalk I hope can be migrated into my details as it is cheaper."

Earlier, you clearly stated that you were NOT the Account Holder with BT, so you did not have any contractual rights or obligations regarding the BT Contract.

--------------------------------

"I'm not in contract with BT Anymore and the services with talktalk I hope can be migrated into my details as it is cheaper."

AND from the second part of the above statement, you do NOT have a contract with TalkTalk, so again you do not have any contractual rights or obligations regarding the putative TT contract.


You should not be involved with either company, UNLESS the true Account Holder has appointed you to be his/her AGENT in this matter.

Have you taken any steps towards establishing that legally, you have authority to act in this matter, on behalf of the actual Account Holder?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 12-Sep-13 08:33:26
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
The credit score issue is referring to the idea you just run up a big bill and dont pay with talktalk

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Sep-13 10:13:36
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
I still can't see anything in this thread that might suggest Talktalk have acted fraudulently.

For the sake of avoiding libel, you might want to retract that allegation.

Oliver.
Standard User smurf46
(member) Thu 12-Sep-13 10:31:49
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just a point of clarification: isn't the procedure for moving voice lines specified by Ofcom (or is that just for WLR) which is the 14 day notification by the "loosing" Provider?

It seems to be the trouble with telecommunications - there is no source of accurate and up to date comprehensive information on how "the (regulated) system" works so it is left to speculation. It's almost as though customers are deliberately kept in the dark. And letters/notifications are usually dressed up to look like just excuses for more marketing trash.

Ofcom, and probably the whole of the utility regulation in this country, seems to be based on the premise that if it acts in the interests of the competing players in the industry, then the industry will look after the interest of consumers. Something from a nineteenth century economics textbook.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin

Edited by smurf46 (Thu 12-Sep-13 10:36:38)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 12-Sep-13 10:46:25
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/migration.html#m...

Is what TalkTalk would have used and this would have triggered a Notification of Transfer letter to which people are expected to reply and operators act upon.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/migration.html#not

Things are changing, but its a process underway for a couple of years now as getting agreement and new services keep appearing adding to the complexity.

But in short it is feasible for your services to be hijacked if someone plays a prank and times it so that you are not around, or have provided valid banking details. In this case we do not have the full picture by a long shot so impossible to say if TalkTalk and/or BT messed up, or whether someone was attempting to be nasty.

The issue is adding more checking during switching costs more, and also lengthens the process, when most consumers are wanting to have seamless shorter switching processes.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 04:40:36
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
My broadband is not working at all now.

Yesterday at midnight the broadband completely went offline. I'm using a ThreePay Dongle had to spend £75 just to get enough balance to do my dad to day work online that I earn my living for.

The excuse from talktalk is that the broadband order has failed requiring it ti be escalated.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 05:20:59
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Please make up your mind!

"I'm not in contract with BT Anymore and the services with talktalk I hope can be migrated into my details as it is cheaper."

Earlier, you clearly stated that you were NOT the Account Holder with BT, so you did not have any contractual rights or obligations regarding the BT Contract.

--------------------------------

"I'm not in contract with BT Anymore and the services with talktalk I hope can be migrated into my details as it is cheaper."

AND from the second part of the above statement, you do NOT have a contract with TalkTalk, so again you do not have any contractual rights or obligations regarding the putative TT contract.


You should not be involved with either company, UNLESS the true Account Holder has appointed you to be his/her AGENT in this matter.

Have you taken any steps towards establishing that legally, you have authority to act in this matter, on behalf of the actual Account Holder?


I am the BT Account Holder but I'm not the account holder of the talktalk account I don't know who is. But now I have completely lost broadband access.
Standard User alwall
(member) Fri 13-Sep-13 08:29:34
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
I think you'll find that the OP is not the Talktalk A/C holder but IS the BT A/C holder

BTBroadband
Standard User timl
(committed) Fri 13-Sep-13 10:27:37
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
And it looked as if you were beginning to get things sorted with Talktalk.

The standard excuse I got from Talktalk was to blame BT for absolutely everything... hope you don't get the same (in my case it was Talktalk who were at fault)

Plusnet unlimited FTTC
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:16:15
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: timl] [link to this post]
 
Idk what to do.

When I ring 100 now it says Welcome to TalkTalk Instead of BT.

My HomeHub shows a red light and won't connect at all. the talktalk router has a constant red light. Talktalk won't even escalate it. as it's not my account. neither will they even transfer me to a Manager 80% of the time I'm completely stuck.

As you can see from the following IMG - http://puu.sh/4q8wf.png the PPoE Session won't connect at all I'm using my three dongle at the moment in the USB Slot on the router just to get connected.

Edited by uppi (Fri 13-Sep-13 13:25:59)

Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:31:16
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
This is a complete fubar'd mess.

Since you have said that your contract is (or, according to them now, was) with BT, and is not and never has been with TalkTalk, in my opinion, it is BT you should be calling and escalating with to sort this out.

You need to really jump on the heels of BT here, as it is they who appear to have incorrectly terminated your contract, and allowed your line to be (erroneously) transferred to TalkTalk. You need to clarify by who that was authorized, and how, and have them recognize that it has been in error. It is entirely up to them to sort this mess out, and compensate you accordingly.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Fri 13-Sep-13 18:11:00)

Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:34:36
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
This is a complete fubar'd mess.

Since you have said that you're contract is (or, according to them now, was) with BT, and is not and never has been with TalkTalk, in my opinion, it is BT you should be calling and escalating with to sort this out.

You need to really get on the heels with BT here, as it is they who appear to have incorrectly terminated your contract, and allowed your line to be (erroneously) transferred to TalkTalk. You need to clarify by who that was authorized, and how. If they can't provide this, then it is entirely up to them to sort this mess out, and compensate you accordingly.


I don't even feel like contacting BT or TalkTalk Because I get nowhere. My broadband does not even work now I have been promised by several Managers at Talktalk that they would ring me back within 24 hours. But they Never do!

I even phoned up 10 minutes ago just to get told that they won't transfer me to a Manager as it's not my Account. And I have been without broadband for nearly 2 days because of this? IDK What to do I'm just fed up now. BT Re-Transfer my services will take at least a Month and asking BT for compensation is impossible as they just refuse to compensate. As I have had times when I lost my broadband service due to the issues that the have caused.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:50:00
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
As I said, forget dealing with TalkTalk - you have no contract with them, nor them with you. It's a waste of time. BT is the only way forward.

If it was me, I would try my best to get BT to rectify this mess and sort it out as quickly as possible. If they refuse, I would then play the card of "I obviously have no contract with you then, as you are saying you don't with me". As such, I would then cancel any standing orders and direct debits with BT, and order a brand new line + broadband, which will trigger off a cease and re-provide. Once the line has been re-provided, bill them for their own costs in providing you with a cease and re-provide due to their screw up of transferring your previous line to TalkTalk without your consent or authorization.

Obviously, this mostly likely means you lose your original land line number. If you are prepared to wait for them to sort their own mess out, don't go this route but do keep persisting that it is their problem that they need to fix, and that every day without broadband is costing you money, which you will bill them for as compensation.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:53:45
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
As I said, forget dealing with TalkTalk - you have no contract with them, nor them with you. It's a waste of time. BT is the only way forward.

If it was me, I would try my best to get BT to rectify this mess and sort it out as quickly as possible. If they refuse, I would then play the card of "I obviously have no contract with you then, as you are saying you don't with me". As such, I would then cancel any standing orders and direct debits with BT, and order a brand new line + broadband, which will trigger off a cease and re-provide. Once the line has been re-provided, bill them for their own costs in providing you with a cease and re-provide due to their screw up of transferring your previous line to TalkTalk without your consent or authorization.

Obviously, this mostly likely means you lose your original land line number. If you are prepared to wait for them to sort their own mess out, don't go this route but do keep persisting that it is their problem that they need to fix, and that every day without broadband is costing you money, which you will bill them for as compensation.


BT are not Liable to compensate me for them screwing up I have already been in a similar situation in the past they Just won't compensate me.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:58:43
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
BT are not Liable to compensate me for them screwing up I have already been in a similar situation in the past they Just won't compensate me.

Seriously? Who told you that, and where is it written?

A legal contract is binding between both parties involved. BT have broken their contract with you, for providing telecoms services. Thus, they are liable. I'm not a legal expert, but if this went to a civil court, and a BT representive said that to the Judge, pointing at BT terms and conditions wording the same thing (if that even exists), the judge should (and probably would) laugh, ruling in your favour, because I just don't see how, in contract law, that is even legal.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Fri 13-Sep-13 13:59:30)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Sep-13 13:58:47
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
A fatalistic stance.

It all hinges on what BT has or has not done wrong, the Notification of Transfer for the phone transfer was sent. Any fault for BT hinges on when they were told this was not the case that you wanted to move.

Phone calls often fail in these situations and slower old fashioned letters are better as it makes it easier for people to deal with things and check facts before replying.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:03:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
If BT acted on a request to move services from another provider and sent out the required notification and no request to cancel was received in the time frame then BT will have nothing to answer for.

If BT were told within the cancellation window to stop the transfer and failed to do so then they would be liable in my view.

If a trouble maker initiated the moves and the original poster missed the cancellation window, BT are still not liable, and things swing towards TalkTalk for not verifying the transfer request details. If it was someone with enough information to pass any reasonable checks then we are looking at a civil case in small claims court against an individual possibly.

This is not a simple scenario.

SOLUTION: Seek legal advice NOW

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:13:52
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
If BT acted on a request to move services from another provider and sent out the required notification and no request to cancel was received in the time frame then BT will have nothing to answer for.

I appreciate your point here, but this seems completely flawed. When creating or terminating any contract, at the most fundamental level, a wet signature is required, though these days, that is mostly skipped on so many levels. For BT to just issue a fire and forget notice saying services will be transferred is just madness, in my opinion. What if the person is ill ? Away on holiday ? Or post delayed ? That maybe how the current process works, but in my opinion, that doesn't make it right, or even legally valid.

But yes, I agree with your final comment. Legal advice definitely needs sought.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:24:08
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
If your assertion is correct, then millions of us have lots of contracts outstanding as the verbal replies on phones to cancel or online forms cancelling services.

The fire and forget is the Ofcom approved method and as much as some people don't like it, wishing it was different does not change the posters situation.

I trust you submitted to the previous consultations
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5984-ofcom-picks-...
expressing the desire that changing provider should be
a) Slower
b) Require provider to wait for the return of an actual letter
c) Still open to abuse as anyone can forge a signature and drop a letter in a letter box.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:31:14
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I have finally got somewhere with TalkTalk the Adviser said the broadband order is taking longer to move over and that it will be working by midnight tonigt,
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:48:22
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Using that service could be seen as constituting accepting that the move was valid and authorised by you.

So unless happy to now resolve billing/account issues with TalkTalk pursuing them to get everything installed and working is not the way to go.

What was your backup scenario for home working if the old BT connection had died?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 14:50:59
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Using that service could be seen as constituting accepting that the move was valid and authorised by you.

So unless happy to now resolve billing/account issues with TalkTalk pursuing them to get everything installed and working is not the way to go.

What was your backup scenario for home working if the old BT connection had died?


I don't have any backup plan I had no trouble with BT for 6 months.

BT will just end up putting me on another 18month contract and that I do not want.

Edited by uppi (Fri 13-Sep-13 14:54:52)

Standard User santiagogarcia
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 15:13:19
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Try to avoid falling into talk talk at all cost. I made the terrible mistake of asking them to install me internet. They charged me on the first day. One month after still not service and still waiting for a refund. Customer service is awful. I can't wait to get rid of them
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Sep-13 16:41:53
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
In which case the question should be.

How do I get TalkTalk to accept me as the account holder even though I never setup the account.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 19:28:45
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
You are NOT a talktalk customer, you will never be allowed to access the talktalk account information. It's not your account!! That's like me transferring some money into your bank account by accident and expecting your bank to give me all your details so I can spend my money from your account, it will never happen!!

Whoever has done this transfer has acted illegally as it's clearly not something you wanted, they clearly have some issues. If you have an idea of who it is I would strongly suggest collecting evidence and taking them to the small claims court for costs associated with having no internet and fees etc.

Right now your only method forward is to accept another contract with a provider of your choice.
I do foresee problems here. When you try to move to another provider on the existing line, whoever setup the TalkTalk line will receive a letter asking them if they wish to allow you to migrate away from TalkTalk, if they refuse it will not go ahead.

A better solution is to setup a provider with a new line, Sky can do this for £15 and virginmedia is a good option. I would report this to the police as well just incase it bites you in future e.g. say the person who setup TalkTalk doesn't pay the bill & debt collectors arrive.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 19:29:10
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
How do I get TalkTalk to accept me as the account holder even though I never setup the account.
They never will?
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 20:44:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Email from BT - http://puu.sh/4qpbK.png

A little too Late I guess.

How ever talktalk have said that I could order broadband and move the current services over through a new order. But who can I contact high up in talktalk?
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 20:49:07
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
When did you get that email, today?

Also like everyone else has said, stop dealing with TalkTalk, it's not your account.
If you send me your post code on a private message I can have a look at what options you have in your area for the best.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 20:53:23
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
When did you get that email, today?

Also like everyone else has said, stop dealing with TalkTalk, it's not your account.
If you send me your post code on a private message I can have a look at what options you have in your area for the best.


The email is dated from Today, i fell asleep earlier on Today and woke up about 2 hours ago. So I missed my last option to reverse it.

I was thinking of actually getting a new line Today as due to previous experiences with Openreach trying to get Similar issues fixed was a nightmare. Plusnet put a lock on the current line. Took for ever to escalate the issue. Maybe the same problem as happened with TalkTalk?

Last time a stop/restart on the line and a rushed broadband order was activated on the line 3 days after.

The provider who offers the best price at my address is TalkTalk at £28.50 for 6 months including a free YouView Box on a 18 month contract.

I have tried PlusNet but disliked the way they handle the support, Everyone says talktalk support is terrible but as long as I have call baring and my Openreach modem on a hacked firmware. I never ever ring up BT Apart from billing problems.

Sky is the other best option for me at my address. as I get 1MB ADSL and 33MB on FTTC

Edited by uppi (Fri 13-Sep-13 21:02:45)

Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 20:59:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Yes the only issue is getting TalkTalk to move an existing account under someone else's name into your name, it's not likely to be easy.

Give TalkTalk a ring, you'll probably get nowhere and suddenly realise why I wouldn't personally recommend them. Cheap yes, answer to your problems, probably not - somethings bound to go wrong.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:08:39
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
http://puu.sh/4qqRJ.jpg

As you can see I have my Three Dongle connected to the TalkTalk router that was sent out. Costs me £0.50 per day but I'm limited to around 1.5Mbps once I get my Three Dongle Sim out I can get up to 10Mbps. costing £37 for 15GB. can get 3M/s on file transfers.

How ever the PPoE connection is failing as it connects directly to the Openreach modem. I'm yet to go into that and see if I can connect through a PPoE Session from my PC just in case its a issue with the Openreach modem. What would the PPoE Details be for talktalk fibre ?

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Yes the only issue is getting TalkTalk to move an existing account under someone else's name into your name, it's not likely to be easy.

Give TalkTalk a ring, you'll probably get nowhere and suddenly realise why I wouldn't personally recommend them. Cheap yes, answer to your problems, probably not - somethings bound to go wrong.


The only thing I'm concerned about is getting my Broadband working.

Maybe it could start working Tonight I think BT could have suspended my line. as I'm not in contract and the last bill is being generated. So maybe BT might have been waiting for a further response from me regarding the line? I did contact BT but I got nowhere doing that Either. How ever I did email high level complaints team in BT about it and they are seeing what could be Done.

Edited by uppi (Fri 13-Sep-13 21:14:08)

Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:13:26
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Do you know who did the talktalk transfer to begin with? Is there any reasoning with them to transfer it into your name? Or was it some kind of hate revenge.
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:15:45
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Do you know who did the talktalk transfer to begin with? Is there any reasoning with them to transfer it into your name? Or was it some kind of hate revenge.


My Brothers are always trying to mess around with everything I do one way or another. I don't speak to them now due to several reasons.

How ever check my last MSG.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:24:14
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Ok understood. Wow this is pretty mean though, some people eh!

The EASIEST way forward, not the cheapest, if it's available where you are is to choose a virginmedia package. This is because it does not use the existing BT lines so you can just ignore the TalkTalk stuff alltogether and move on. Plus a virginline cannot be taken over by another provider, as no other provider uses virgins lines. You'd just get a cut off date from Virgin if somebody tried to transfer you away but even so virgin can switch their lines back on fast if you don't contact before the cut off. I would certainly give this some consideration.

Staying with TalkTalk will be very difficult especially since the accounts in another name. Say you open another TalkTalk account, there's going to be another TalkTalk account presumably unpaid for by your brother. How TT would deal with that with regards to cutting off etc i'm not sure.

Moving the existing line back to BT or any ISP via a BT line will just mean your brother will presumably stop the transfer when he gets the letter like the one you got from BT.

So in my view 3 options:
1) New line installed all together - possibly via TalkTalk if you wish. Just place an order with TalkTalk and say you want a new line installed and do not want to use the existing line at the address, this way it doesn't involve the brother. Be warned though the brother will likely find a way to mess this up too...
BE WARNED IT COULD GET COMPLICATED AS YOUR BROTHERS ACCOUNT COULD GO INTO DISPUTE ON TT AT YOUR ADDRESS
2) What I would do - seek virginmedia if available as it's outside of the BT lines and less to go wrong with it all.
3) Perhaps the best solution is to deal with BT, explaining what has happened. If anybodies going to get a line sorted right given the current circumstances it's probably them. I have no hopes for TT.

I think other options will be complicated.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 13-Sep-13 21:26:09)

Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:44:50
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
The talktalk service should be working so It would give me time to move to Sky before it gets cutt off again.

But now the DSL Light on my Openreach modem is not on anymore so that means my circuit has been removed?

Edited by uppi (Fri 13-Sep-13 21:48:35)

Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:56:56
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Ok understood. Wow this is pretty mean though, some people eh!

The EASIEST way forward, not the cheapest, if it's available where you are is to choose a virginmedia package. This is because it does not use the existing BT lines so you can just ignore the TalkTalk stuff alltogether and move on. Plus a virginline cannot be taken over by another provider, as no other provider uses virgins lines. You'd just get a cut off date from Virgin if somebody tried to transfer you away but even so virgin can switch their lines back on fast if you don't contact before the cut off. I would certainly give this some consideration.

Staying with TalkTalk will be very difficult especially since the accounts in another name. Say you open another TalkTalk account, there's going to be another TalkTalk account presumably unpaid for by your brother. How TT would deal with that with regards to cutting off etc i'm not sure.

Moving the existing line back to BT or any ISP via a BT line will just mean your brother will presumably stop the transfer when he gets the letter like the one you got from BT.

So in my view 3 options:
1) New line installed all together - possibly via TalkTalk if you wish. Just place an order with TalkTalk and say you want a new line installed and do not want to use the existing line at the address, this way it doesn't involve the brother. Be warned though the brother will likely find a way to mess this up too...
BE WARNED IT COULD GET COMPLICATED AS YOUR BROTHERS ACCOUNT COULD GO INTO DISPUTE ON TT AT YOUR ADDRESS
2) What I would do - seek virginmedia if available as it's outside of the BT lines and less to go wrong with it all.
3) Perhaps the best solution is to deal with BT, explaining what has happened. If anybodies going to get a line sorted right given the current circumstances it's probably them. I have no hopes for TT.

I think other options will be complicated.


It's not in my brothers name its in a fraudulent name.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:57:56
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Yes the bt fttc service will have been ceased So tt can supply their ADSL on your line in your brothers name or who ever elses name it may be in, unless you are going to have sky FTTC i wouldn't bother with sky either
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 21:59:28
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
Yes the bt fttc service will have been ceased So tt can supply their ADSL on your line in your brothers name or who ever elses name it may be in, unless you are going to have sky FTTC i wouldn't bother with sky either


The order is a FTTC order.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 22:27:53
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Weird usually the name has to pass a credit check and normally the providers also require a valid UK bank account to be linked to the account.

During the sign up process it will ask your name, address for the last 3 years, it will also take your bank account number, sort code and name on the account. This information is then checked against the Experian Credit record in the same way a lender such as a high street bank checks. If it doesn't come back with a valid person who matches that name and bank records they usually cannot go any further. WHY? Say I sign up with TalkTalk and do not pay my bill. I then move address. My credit record will show my bank accounts being switched to the new address, TalkTalk can then see that the address has changed and start pestering me at the new address. This means you ultimately cannot get away without paying the bill without it severely impacting your ability to get a loan, bank card etc in future.

To somehow fool a credit check is fraud and you can do jail time for this as it must be very sophisticated.

Also signing up online means you have to enter valid bank details for a direct debit to be setup. The only way to not use a direct debit is to telephone but they still run a credit check.

Ever so strange. If a formal investigation was ran there would almost certainly be a valid person behind all of this and TT probably know who. That said they cannot give out this info to you right now.

You should really report this as fraud - as that's what is it to TalkTalk.

I would write a recorded letter to the main TT complaints address:
Customer Relations Department
TalkTalk Group
P.O. Box 360, Southampton, SO30 2LY

Include the following
That you believe fraud has occurred from a third party, you have no idea who but suspect your brother, list their names, if it matches TalkTalk are likely to report it which they deserve.
Your name, & the name of the fake account if known.
The date the switchover occurred
Your TalkTalk home telephone number if known
Info about how you've tried dealing with TalkTalk so far but cannot get anywhere with them and have no services
Anything else relevant
Your address & your phone number & email.

Also make it explicitly clear that somebody has setup a fake account and this has migrated your services away from BT whilst you were away.

Snail mail is usually the best in situations like this. Keep a copy of what you send and get it tracked, signed for, the whole shibang.

Also make a complaint here http://www.ombudsman-services.org/complain-now-commu...
I think this is a good move because you are unlikely to ever get to the bottom of this whereas the ombudsman will be extremely interested in how a random third party has managed to fraudulently slam your line to another provider & they can definitely get to the bottom of it (if they want to).
1) The complaint is in the list of paricipating compaies
2) Have you told the company you have a complaint that needs resolving - yes you spoke to TT but they cannot help
3) Ongoing more than 8 weeks - no
4) Has the company said it can do more to help - yes you cannot access the TalkTalk account and cannot get any further without paying for a new line.
5)Then fill in the online form.

That should get the ball rolling a little bit with TalkTalk and hopefully you can get the services into your name.

Whilst you are at it fill in the contact us here too http://www.talktalk.co.uk/contactus
I would Select your order - changing an order - email us - verification i'm not a TT customer.

Be as detailed as possible here.

TalkTalk used to be contactable here 01438 765494 extn 6240. This used to be the highest level of complaints contact number. I'm not sure if it's still valid but worth a go.

Don't give up. The more you message & apply pressure the more likely it will be sorted. I'm hoping that one of the above methods will get this resolved for you.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 13-Sep-13 22:28:50)

Standard User uppi
(newbie) Fri 13-Sep-13 22:48:13
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Just bought a 24month 15GB 4G Dongle so that will be good enough for now. And claim back against BT in a small claims court.

I will be ordering a new line tomorrow to bypass all this trouble.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 22:56:04
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
BT have done nothing wrong you can only take the person who committed the fraud to court and you apparently have no idea who that is.

BT were following standard proceedure. They were only in the wrong if they knew the person taking over the line was fraudulent which they clearly didn't.

Good idea anyway with the dongle!

Sky do a new line for £15 & often free.
BT may do it for free.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 13-Sep-13 22:56:20)

Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Sep-13 23:20:43
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Just re read do you really need a TWO year dongle? Isn't a PAYG one better?
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Sep-13 00:21:46
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Funny how the email from BT was missed also, mine came at 3am on the day of the switch to another WLR provider. Although like the OP I was asleep at the time smirk
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Sat 14-Sep-13 00:57:43
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Just re read do you really need a TWO year dongle? Isn't a PAYG one better?


When openreach causes you as many issues as I have you are bound to opt into a 2 Year Dongle. Plus when I move address soon I will need it.

Need it as a backup.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-Sep-13 01:05:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
confused
In reply to a post by uppi:
Basically to sum everything up I have been on Holiday for the last 2 weeks.

When I got back I opened all my post To see a Letter from BT stating that I have moved my Phone / Broadband to another provider.
You posted that on Weds. The email you received on Fri. gave you until midday Fri. to contact BT to stop the transfer. The letter must have said the same.

What were you doing between Weds. & Fri. that prevented you from telling BT to call it off? Were you also asleep all that time?

You have no case to sue BT. They have acted correctly and kept you informed. It is you who have been negligent & need to wake up!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Sep-13 02:11:46
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
confused
In reply to a post by uppi:
When I got back I opened all my post To see a Letter from BT stating that I have moved my Phone / Broadband to another provider.
You posted that on Weds. The email you received on Fri. gave you until midday Fri. to contact BT to stop the transfer. The letter must have said the same.

What were you doing between Weds. & Fri. that prevented you from telling BT to call it off? Were you also asleep all that time?


The letter I got from BT Retail, several days before the switch, actually said I had until 4pm on the day before the move to stop it (unlike the email which gave midday on the day of the move as the deadline.) Think I may have been having an afternoon nap at that time, did matter because I had every intention of leaving BT retail for line rental provision anyway LOL!
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Sat 14-Sep-13 02:18:19
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
The letter I got from BT on Wednesday did not state a cease date I got it late Wednesday. And I have had a lot of things to do since getting back. I had 1 day to contact them just under 24 hours then my broadband went off so it could not be reversed as it had already caused problems.

How ever regardless of that. I'm not bothered about that I would like to argue the case with TalkTalk.

I have made progress so far got a call from a Manager who is escalating the issue in to why the broadband is not working. They said Monday or Tuesday it should be back on but it could take up to a month. I have to write a written letter to talktalk to explain the problem and details of the old BT account included such as a copy of one of my bills.

So Hopefully I can get the service put into my own name.

Edited by uppi (Sat 14-Sep-13 02:19:43)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Sep-13 02:23:11
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
What's done is done - best of luck smile
Standard User timl
(committed) Sat 14-Sep-13 08:36:29
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I have no idea why the OP ignores all the sage advice he's been given... Indeed best of luck to OP.

Plusnet unlimited FTTC
Standard User Futaura
(committed) Sat 14-Sep-13 10:54:09
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uppi:
When openreach causes you as many issues as I have you are bound to opt into a 2 Year Dongle. Plus when I move address soon I will need it.

Hang on... how soon is "soon"? The situation will be get many times worse if you move before the mess is entirely resolved. Even if it is resolved before you move, you need to consider minimum term contracts, etc, etc.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Sat 14-Sep-13 12:11:42
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: Futaura] [link to this post]
 
hi, i've been following this on email so forgive me if I missed something.

I was wondering, since the TT account isn't yours, who is paying for it?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User uppi
(newbie) Sun 15-Sep-13 00:58:25
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Internet is back on now.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2967354410

Rubbish Speeds.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Sep-13 02:36:21
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
No suprise there eh? you gets what you pays for, well if you where the account holder you would,
Standard User IanBB
(member) Sun 15-Sep-13 02:42:06
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
This thread has me totally confused.

Apparently it started with a supposed slam by TT on the line and now it is a complaint about speeds from TT?

I'm going to have to lie down for an hour or so after reading all that!
Standard User uppi
(learned) Sun 15-Sep-13 03:31:07
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by IanBB:
This thread has me totally confused.

Apparently it started with a supposed slam by TT on the line and now it is a complaint about speeds from TT?

I'm going to have to lie down for an hour or so after reading all that!


Regardless of the situation I still need Internet and I have owned the line for the past 6 years. So I'll try anything to keep it.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Sep-13 04:10:57
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Hopefully somebody signs you up for plusnet now then!
Just kidding.

Isn't the TT package fibre optic? Did an engineer not have to come to install it? I've never had a fibre install without an engineer.

In this case surely alarm bells were ringing no?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 15-Sep-13 04:15:37
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: IanBB] [link to this post]
 
It all started with Cain & Abel!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User uppi
(learned) Sun 15-Sep-13 04:37:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Hopefully somebody signs you up for plusnet now then!
Just kidding.

Isn't the TT package fibre optic? Did an engineer not have to come to install it? I've never had a fibre install without an engineer.

In this case surely alarm bells were ringing no?


I had BT Infinity active before the force move to TalkTalk Occurred.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Sep-13 04:57:57
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Gotcha. Given your recent speedtest.
I would personally stick with BT, get the ball rolling backwards and keep an eye out in future for any letters moving your provider.

You said TT is pretty poor, it won't get better & if you transfer your name to it you can't leave.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 15-Sep-13 04:58:16)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 15-Sep-13 08:18:01
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uppi:
Internet is back on now.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2967354410

Rubbish Speeds.
That's an ADSL2+ result, not fibre?


__________________________________________________________________________a bit harsh and a tad childish__________________
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Sep-13 09:26:02
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Talktalk use 2meg up product for cheapest

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Sun 15-Sep-13 09:32:29
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Regardless of the situation I still need Internet and I have owned the line for the past 6 years. So I'll try anything to keep it.

As another poster has already asked, who is now paying for the TT connection?

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User uppi
(learned) Sun 15-Sep-13 17:43:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
Regardless of the situation I still need Internet and I have owned the line for the past 6 years. So I'll try anything to keep it.

As another poster has already asked, who is now paying for the TT connection?


I'm certainly not paying for it. as I have already explained earlier it is a complete random name. on the Letters its a female name.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Sep-13 18:10:08
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
Isn't it more likely that during sign up a woman's given her post code and house number and the agent on the phones entered their post code slightly wrong meaning it's been installed at yours instead?

This way the other user would probably pass credit checks too as their bank info would be genuine.

What makes you so sure it's revenge from a brother?

Whatever the case using their internets not really legal.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 15-Sep-13 18:10:59)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Sep-13 18:17:01
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uppi:
In reply to a post by mixt:
Regardless of the situation I still need Internet and I have owned the line for the past 6 years. So I'll try anything to keep it.

As another poster has already asked, who is now paying for the TT connection?


I'm certainly not paying for it. as I have already explained earlier it is a complete random name. on the Letters its a female name.


Looks like there was a mix up of names, addresses, phone numbers, bank account details, etc. by TalkTalk and they notified BT Retail of the proposed migration of broadband and the switch of the phone service from your WLR line. If you have evidence of wrongly addressed letters from TalkTalk, i.e. the female name, then you will certainly have a case for claiming that there was an error made by TalkTalk. TalkTalk will have to answer how your name, address and telephone number somehow possibly got confused with an another individual's name and perhaps bank account.

However you did not act on the notifications from BT Retail about the proposed move to TalkTalk so that may complicate issues somewhat...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Sep-13 18:28:17
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
And if a real mistake someone will be moaning about a failed activation and probably will end up with TalkTalk figuring it out and ceasing this line with zero notice

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User grahammm
(member) Sun 15-Sep-13 19:38:04
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
And if a real mistake someone will be moaning about a failed activation and probably will end up with TalkTalk figuring it out and ceasing this line with zero notice

Rather than just ceasing it with no notice, should they not be obliged to restore the line to the state it was in (ie restore, or arrange for restoral of, the services on it) before they made their mistake?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Sep-13 19:41:04
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: grahammm] [link to this post]
 
Yes but that takes time and hijacked person making it clear they want old service restored.

This one has lots of potential to be messy

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Sep-13 20:08:01
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Maybe, but in this instance i see Stalktalk sales making offers and doing what they get paid to do best,lie to the customer,in a bid to gain 2 customers out of this,

Stalk talk shelling out compo to the OP, and fees to BTOR etc for re reinstatement of the OP's line back to WLR3 plus and any FTTC reconnection fee's, will be the last thing they will want to do, the OP will get the hard sell no 2 ways about that,lol

And my guess is that they will accept stalk talks offers, and agree to be a customer,which makes this post pointless ,but they will later probably end up regretting it, as said if they haven't so far been concerned regarding the levels of support from tt then there's little or no hope of them ever becoming aware of possibly what is the worst customer services and tech support of any isp in the uk via the telephone,

However they do have a members forum, that customers firstly must register with in order to make posts,and therefore get any form of support, which often takes days not hours or minutes, but that would be of little use if the customers adsl or fttc service was down , so is IMO a far cry from a real way of offering support

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 15-Sep-13 20:36:05)

Standard User David_W
(experienced) Fri 20-Sep-13 21:12:54
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
I appreciate your point here, but this seems completely flawed. When creating or terminating any contract, at the most fundamental level, a wet signature is required, though these days, that is mostly skipped on so many levels. For BT to just issue a fire and forget notice saying services will be transferred is just madness, in my opinion. What if the person is ill ? Away on holiday ? Or post delayed ? That maybe how the current process works, but in my opinion, that doesn't make it right, or even legally valid.

I appreciate the thread has moved on beyond this point, and note that MrSaffron correctly pointed out the falsehood in this at the time. However, the wider context of this answer is relevant to where we are now.


It has never been a requirement of the law of England and Wales (or, so far as I know, Scotland or Northern Ireland) for contracts to be in paper form and to be signed. If there were such requirements, City traders would be in trouble, as their job revolves around electronic or telephone contracts to buy and sell worth millions or billions of pounds. A contract can be verbal - though it can be hard to prove a verbal contract.

A contract in England and Wales typically requires an offer, unconditional agreement to that offer, consideration (best thought of in this case as a promise to pay in return for a promise to provide a service) and intention to create legal relations. There are certain exceptions relating to consideration (deeds, estoppel and so on), but they are not relevant here.

The mention of postal delay by mixt addresses a particularly knotty point of contract law in England and Wales. Acceptance of an offer by post, which would create a contract, usually applies from the point of posting, even if the letter is never received - though, of course, it may be difficult to prove you posted a letter of acceptance that was never delivered. This rule does not apply to instantaneous electronic communication (the case law is about telex, but applies by extension to fax, e-mail and the like) - in that case, acceptance applies from when the offeree reasonably expects the offeror to notice the acceptance.


The concept of privity of contract is central to the dealings between the original poster and TalkTalk. The original poster seems to be a third party to the contract between TalkTalk and the unnamed woman on the contract, so has no rights whatsoever under that contract. The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 cannot apply, as the original poster was never supposed to gain any rights under that contract.

As others have suggested, I suspect TalkTalk have mixed up the original poster's phone number for the one on which the woman contracting with TalkTalk wanted service. Once that mistake has been pointed out to TalkTalk, it's unclear what will happen. TalkTalk may try to argue that the original poster has entered into a contract with them for provision of service, based on his dealings with them in relation to the matter. Alternatively, TalkTalk may argue that there is no contract in relation to the original poster's line, and may cease all services without notice.


Arguably the original poster made two mistakes.

Firstly, he should have responded to the notification from the losing service provider by stopping the transfer. It's never a good idea to allow a mistaken transfer to proceed - if you wish to switch to the gaining provider, stop the transfer process and start it again on a proper footing to prevent this sort of mess.

Secondly, he should not have attempted to deal with TalkTalk in relation to the mistakenly provided services, other than working with TalkTalk to transfer service back to a provider of his choosing. Making use of the services knowing that they are not provided for his benefit could constitute fraud by false representation contrary to section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 - though it is debatable whether the original poster's actions are dishonest in the legal sense (dishonest according the standards of ordinary and reasonable people, and the subject realised their actions were dishonest according to those standards). No offence has been committed if the actions were not legally dishonest.


If the losing provider issued the notifications required by regulation at the appropriate time, they are not negligent, and the contract with the losing provider was correctly brought to an end. Contract law does not sit in isolation - if the law lays down a process by which a service is transferred to another provider, and the transfer process was correctly followed, the contract with the losing provider ends on transfer despite the customer's lack of explicit instructions to the losing provider to terminate the contract.


If the losing provider correctly followed their part of the transfer process, it is hard to see how they breached any duty of care they owed the original poster, which is the fundamental requirement to establish negligence. Contributory negligence would be a further hurdle, as it can be argued the original poster was negligent in not stopping the transfer from taking place.

Damages in tort (including negligence) are usually limited to direct financial loss, so there appears to be no route to claim for consequential matters such as alternative broadband provision. Even if consequential losses were claimable for, the concept of remoteness would limit damages to those directly flowing from the loss - the original poster certainly couldn't claim for the whole of a 24 month mobile broadband contract!


I think the original poster has three options to resolve this matter.

1. Instruct TalkTalk to cease the mistakenly provided services at his address.

2. Instruct TalkTalk to transfer the line to a provider of his choosing, on the basis it was mistakenly transferred to TalkTalk.

3. Instruct TalkTalk to set up an account in his name, and transfer service to that account.


I strongly suggest that "do nothing" is the wrong approach, as it may only make the situation harder to resolve in the future.

I agree with the suggestion that any dealings are best done by letter or fax, so as to be traceable. If using fax (yes, I know it's old school), it's important to print out a transmission report confirming receipt.


Nothing in this post constitutes formal legal advice. I am, in any case, a mere law undergraduate, who could well be talking rubbish.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:01:02
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
An interesting and informative view of this situation.

In re: your 3 options near the foot of your post, as there is no privity of contract between OP & TT, I don't see how the OP can instruct TT to do anything; maybe he may request.

Option 3 may be the closest he may achieve in that he may strike a new contract with TT to provide service on his own line and to effectively do to the unnamed woman what she did to him. Any correspondence from TT about the takeover of the line would most likely be sent to his address.

But equally well the OP can make a new contract(s) with any providers to do much the same.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:24:40
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In re: your 3 options near the foot of your post, as there is no privity of contract between OP & TT, I don't see how the OP can instruct TT to do anything; maybe he may request.

Option 3 may be the closest he may achieve in that he may strike a new contract with TT to provide service on his own line and to effectively do to the unnamed woman what she did to him. Any correspondence from TT about the takeover of the line would most likely be sent to his address.

But equally well the OP can make a new contract(s) with any providers to do much the same.
My language was maybe a little imprecise in the options, as you point out. The OP can instruct TalkTalk in respect of a new contract in his own name should he so wish (option 3).

The OP also appears to have the right to instruct TalkTalk to transfer or cease the line and phone number goes. The transfer to TalkTalk was not at his instigation notwithstanding his failure to prevent it from happening, also he is not bound by TalkTalk's minimum contract period if he has not entered into a contract with TalkTalk. In any event, I'm fairly certain Ofcom requires transfers to be made on request, notwithstanding any outstanding minimum contract period, with the losing service provider having the usual range of contractual remedies against the customer who departing early (typically by levying an early termination fee).

The OP cannot acquire any rights to service under the contract between TalkTalk and the mystery woman, as he is a third party to that contract.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:37:27
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
The OP also appears to have the right to instruct TalkTalk to transfer or cease the line and phone number goes.
I'm not clear what confers on him that right seeing he has no contractual relationship with TT. Yes, he may grab the line & phone # by going with others providers (Option 3 variant) but there seems no way to stop a line dead w/out instructing the current provider under an existing viable contract with them.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:49:03
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Initially the OP suspected his brothers of using a "fraudulent name" but he didn't know what the name was. However later it emerged that it was an unknown female name.

Perhaps his sisters were playing tricks on him also whilst he was on holiday and sleeping smirk
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:56:53
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps the brother's "fraudulent name" was of the female of the species and it is not an unknown female stranger. After all, kit and letters are being delivered to OP's address..

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 20-Sep-13 22:59:26)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Sep-13 22:57:46
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
smile
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Sat 21-Sep-13 08:41:07
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by David_W:
The OP also appears to have the right to instruct TalkTalk to transfer or cease the line and phone number goes.
I'm not clear what confers on him that right seeing he has no contractual relationship with TT. Yes, he may grab the line & phone # by going with others providers (Option 3 variant) but there seems no way to stop a line dead w/out instructing the current provider under an existing viable contract with them.
The legal rights are a little unclear, but I would argue that as TalkTalk had no right to transfer the line and phone number (as they did so without the original poster's express permission), the original poster's right to determine the fate of the line and phone number is unaffected by TalkTalk becoming involved. Of necessity, these rights must be exercised via TalkTalk, as they are the current custodian of the line and number.

Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Sat 21-Sep-13 15:45:05
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
An ISP cannot defraud someone by placing you on their competitors network.

"fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual;"

No gain is made by them - no damage is caused to you

The end..

You have the internet - use google/wiki once and a while!

"
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Sun 22-Sep-13 09:37:13
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pcoventry76:
An ISP cannot defraud someone by placing you on their competitors network.

"fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual;"

No gain is made by them - no damage is caused to you

The end..

You have the internet - use google/wiki once and a while!
This shows the danger of using Wikipedia for this type of research, as that is not the definition of fraud in the law of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The definition of fraud is found in sections 1 to 4 of the Fraud Act 2006. The active version here is section 2, fraud by false representation, which can, in some circumstances, be committed by the legal person of a limited company and for which both the responsible officer and the company itself may bear liability (see section 12).


Fraud by false representation can be committed by making a gain, causing another to make a loss or exposing another to a risk of loss. In this case, the person on the contract is exposed to the risk of loss, as there is an expectation they will pay for service they are not receiving, whilst TalkTalk can make a gain from the charges they are not entitled to.

However, to be s. 2 FA 2006 fraud, there must be a false representation (see section 2(2)), and that representation must be dishonest. In this case, it would be a false representation for TalkTalk to state they have agreement of the original poster to supply service knowing they they do not.

The definition of dishonesty is found in case law (R v Ghosh [1982] EWCA Crim 2). If the matter is clearly dishonest, then it is dishonest. If not, the Ghosh test applies - to be dishonest, an action must be dishonest according to the standards of reasonable people, and the person carrying out the act must know it is dishonest according to those standards. Whether the person regards their act as dishonest according to their own standards is immaterial - it's a largely objective test.


The likelihood is that the original poster's phone number has been mixed up with that of the lady on the contract (mistake, in which case TalkTalk are not deliberately falsely representing their position) or TalkTalk have been maliciously misled over the contract (in which case any false representation from TalkTalk cannot be dishonest, as it is a consequence of talking the false representation of another in good faith).

Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Sep-13 11:54:00
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
The likelihood is that the original poster's phone number has been mixed up with that of the lady on the contract (mistake, in which case TalkTalk are not deliberately falsely representing their position) or TalkTalk have been maliciously misled over the contract (in which case any false representation from TalkTalk cannot be dishonest, as it is a consequence of talking the false representation of another in good faith).


Many thanks for a clear explanation on the definition of fraud.

Obviously we do not have sufficient specific details to understand what has actually occurred here! Although I would hazard a guess that it is Talk-Talk upto their normal tricks, that they tried to dupe me with many years ago!

Some time ago my wife got approached, by a TT Rep at a local supermarket, over how they could save her lots of money on her phone calls. Thinking she was being helpful she filled up a form to "obtain more details" (unfortunately without fully checking that actual details on the form). Needless to say, they had duped her into to filling out an Order Form.

When I discovered the form (she still hadn't appreciated that she had been duped into signing an Order Form), I immediately contacted TT - but they would NOT accept my Call as I was "not the account holder" (the existing BT Line was in my name, NOT my wife's name). Furthermore, they would not speak to my wife unless she provided our Bank Details (allegedly for Security confirmation purposes, although she had NOT provided these when she had been duped). In effect, TT were NOT prepared to talk to anyone (regardless of who was the Account Holder)

I was left with no choice but to directly contact BT & explain the situation & they confirmed that a note would be added to my account stating that I had NOT authorised TT to take over my Phone-Line.

Accordingly I was a bit surprised to subsequently receive a "Sorry-you-are-leaving-letter", from BT. When I contacted BT they stated that they were required by Ofcom to take TT's instruction, even though I had stated that I had NOT authorised such a transfer!! After a lot of agro, I got the transfer cancelled.

A few weeks later, I was even further surprised to receive yet another "Sorry-you-are-leaving-letter", from BT. On contacting BT again, they told me that TT had submitted another request indicating that I had changed my mind! Obviously I had to get that transfer cancelled as well.

Whilst I was clearly annoyed at TT's attempt to take over my line, I was equally annoyed by the fact that BT were prepared to let TT take over the line when they FULLY knew it was not authorised.

A complaint to BT just obtained the standard response that they were fully complying with Ofcom Procedures, although they were unable to supply me with details of the actual Ofcom Procedure.


One of the significant things, in my case, which possibly has a bearing on the OP's case is "Who is the Account Holder"? TT had manipulated it so that I was no longer the Account Holder, as far as they were concerned!

Regards,
John
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Sep-13 15:03:28
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
The likelihood is that the original poster's phone number has been mixed up with that of the lady on the contract
I find this unlikely as had a lady stranger signed up with TT and given, or had incorrectly recorded by TT, a wrong phone # she would at least given her correct name & address. In which case letters and equipment would not be arriving at OP's address, as he has stated.

It would not surprise me that the TT charges are being charged to OP's bank account, as the mischievous brother gave TT all the correct details except a false name on TT account, but to be paid for on OP's Direct Debit so it passed any credit check.

So, all in all, the OP appears to have a valid contract with TT except with the wrong name on it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Sep-13 15:34:03
Print Post

Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I find this unlikely as had a lady stranger signed up with TT and given, or had incorrectly recorded by TT, a wrong phone # she would at least given her correct name & address. In which case letters and equipment would not be arriving at OP's address, as he has stated.

It would not surprise me that the TT charges are being charged to OP's bank account, as the mischievous brother gave TT all the correct details except a false name on TT account, but to be paid for on OP's Direct Debit so it passed any credit check.

So, all in all, the OP appears to have a valid contract with TT except with the wrong name on it.


Wouldn't the letters and equipment sent to the OP by TT have had the female name heading the address? If that was the case then in any communication with TT the incorrect name could be stated to them and the account could then be accessed and the error corrected using appropriate checks?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Sep-13 20:36:02
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Wouldn't the letters and equipment sent to the OP by TT have had the female name heading the address?
Yes, that's my point! It can't have been set in motion by an unknown female stranger from a diff address. The OP said:
In reply to a post by uppi:
on the Letters its a female name.


1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Sep-13 21:04:23
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
The OP said:
In reply to a post by uppi:
on the Letters its a female name.


"Dear Madam,

Welcome to TalkTalk..."
confused
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 22-Sep-13 21:06:21
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Maybe the OP posted this as some kind of wind up, as something about the info given just doesn't feel right ,if you know what mean? i smell a rat with this,

If i tomorrow recieved a modem/router from talk stalk knowing that i had not ordered a service with them, if it was adressed in someone elses name i would be returning it to sender un opened or re sealed , I then would be contacting my SP to check on any spurious WLT where a foot, If at a later date i recieved a sorry to here ...... leter i would be straight on the phone making sure that they knew that i did not order this service, and i would go to CEO level at second attempt,
then as far as i'm concerned i did everthing that i could to stop this TT request going through,

And should the worst happen dispite my efforts, I would sue talk talk in the small claims court ,they would not get a single penny from me, Ofcom are a toothless quango and would be no help , TT'S DRS may be of some help getting re embursment of any fees getting you line or a new one installed and any fees from your isp for re connection ect ,from stalk talk or any other CP who doesn't querry why the first wlt doesnt go through

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 22-Sep-13 21:24:07)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Sep-13 21:12:54
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Salutation or name?

@tommy: Yes, it could well be a wind-up, but I just get a feeling of naivety.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User uppi
(learned) Wed 09-Oct-13 00:07:29
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Salutation or name?

@tommy: Yes, it could well be a wind-up, but I just get a feeling of naivety.


How my post a wind-up?

I'm just posting what I have had to go through asking for help, and all the community are now just being negative against me for posting my experience ?

It doesn't matter now I no longer live at that address.

How ever I still owe BT £138 - http://puu.sh/4Lcp9.png

So could a moderator please close this.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 09-Oct-13 00:33:23
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Re: Talktalk fraudulently moving my services from BT


[re: uppi] [link to this post]
 
If you had left BT then you should have a "final bill" with a payment date. That bill looks like you are still a BT customer...
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