OK am, usless aft and evg

Router Name : Diamond
Model Name : Vigor2820Vn
Firmware Version : 3.3.7.3_232201
Build Date/Time : Sep 13 2012 19:09:39
ADSL Firmware Version : 232201_A Hardware: Annex A

Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 7616000 11 22

At the moment a speed test result returns:
Download speed achieved during the test was - 0.61 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7.62 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6.5 Mbps

TalkTalk CS claim there is nothing amiss with my service despite the fact from around 8am to 1pm I get a respectable 5.57Mbps down and 0.3 up. During the afternoon and into the evening the speed drops down incrementally to generally aroind 0.6Mbps and even as low as 0.01 on some nights. So effectively I am getting a part time service,

All hardware has been swapped out and the test socket used. Hardwired to the desktop. Results remain the same even if another PC is hooked into the network. TalkTalk want £150 to send an engineer out to investigate the issue. Declined and asked for my MAC code which arrived the next day.

Now as of today FTTC was switched on so I could order FTTC from any supplier.

If this was your feed. what would you do? Either place an order for FTTC and put up with the yo-yo speeds until I get FTTC or order some fireworks as part of a plan to get TalkTalk to sort the matter out. Thoughts on a postcard please. [Well replies here really].

i thought the "acceptable range" was 40% of the IP profile? Yours is 11%.

As it is a time of day related speed change this could either be noise on the line only generated at those times somewhere along the copper or oversubscribed backhaul from the exchange to the ISP.

FTTC will eliminate the copper from the cabinet to the exchange, but you will still be using the copper from the house to the cabinet.

Having said that, having an FTTC install will at least mean a BTOR engineer will be in your house and physically doing stuff to your wires for free

I'd go for the FTTC maybe with a different provider so as to change the backhaul.

In your position, I'd go with Myth's suggestion - order FTTC, possibly with a different provider.


TalkTalk are clearly not interested in the original issue. Judging by the wording of your speed test result and the use of G.DMT on a line that looks as if it could manage much more on ADSL2+ (MrSaffron's calculator estimates up to 19.5 Mbit/s downstream at that attenuation), I'm guessing that your current service is over BT Wholesale 20CN. If that's the case, it would be interesting to know what the PlusNet exchange status checker says about 20CN VP capacity. The issue sounds more likely to be backhaul congestion than anything to do with your line, considering the time correlation, low attenuation and healthy noise margin but without error statistics, it's impossible to be sure.

If the only ADSL available is BT Wholesale 20CN and the backhaul VPs are congested, every ADSL ISP will suffer the same issues. Rather than waiting around in the hope of the obsolescent 20CN being upgraded, I'd defect to FTTC which uses an entirely different setup other than the same wires between you and the cabinet. As Myth says, you also have the advantage of an engineer install with FTTC. Especially if you get a BT Openreach engineer rather than a contractor, there's a good chance of any outstanding issues with your line being resolved at the same time.

If you're leaving your current setup behind, I'd just put up with it for the next few weeks - it isn't worth the hassle.


Considering the (lack of) customer service you've received from TalkTalk, this suggests you may want to look elsewhere for an FTTC ISP.

Thanks folks for your thoughts. Here is an update. Out of the blue an OR turned up at my doorstep as I had complained about my broadband. Good of TalkTalk to let me know he was coming Eh?

I explained I wasn't going to lean on TalkTalk as FTTC had arrived and I had ordered FTTC from Zen a couple of days previously with an installation date next Wednesday morning. The ensuing conversation was that from my cabinet, the backhaul was overloaded with the cable diameter of minimum diameter causing considerable crosstalk. He checkout the cable run from my home to the cabinet and said it was first class and with a FTTC service, there was no reason why I shouldn't get 70Mbps rather than the estimated 38Mbps.

Apparently I was being throttled by TalkTalk and was on Fast Path (?) rather the interleaved, with attenuation of 10 instead of 6 so it wasn't surprising that I had poor download speeds. There wasn't much he could do really to improve the situation and as FTTC was only days away he was prepared to get me FTTC ready. So he proceeded to move the master socket to the same room where my computer is and replaced the Master Socket faceplate which has a socket for the modem and one for the phone.

It was an AM visit and by the evening the speed had dropped once again to 58kbps down and 68kbps up. Just for the record FTTC arrives as part of the BDUK rollout and the exchange only has ADSL.

Looking in the router, I see this information this evening after three days of use:
ADSL Information ( ADSL Firmware Version: 232201_A)
ATM Statistics TX Cells RX Cells TX CRC errs RX CRC errs
5557509 3265302 3 0

ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 8128000 10 22

So there we are. I really will be gutted if I get slow speeds with FTTC installed but anything will be better than 58kbps down and 68kbps [I really do mean k and not M]. As for TalkTalk; well they are off my Christmas card list for ever.

He arrived "out of the blue", didn't find a line fault (?), moved the NTE5 and fitted a filtered faceplate - will you be charged for this OR engineer's visit?

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 7616000 11 22

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

...

Apparently I was being throttled by TalkTalk and was on Fast Path (?) rather the interleaved,

...

ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 8128000 10 22

.

the original stats showing DL sync of 7616kbps very much suggests (guarantees?) interleaving was turned on.

The subsequent stat of 8128kbps pretty much suggests (guarantees?) that interleaving was off.

Am not sure what this means, apart from something is very variable on your line which you knew already

In reply to a post by Myth:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 7616000 11 22

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

...

Apparently I was being throttled by TalkTalk and was on Fast Path (?) rather the interleaved,

...

ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 8128000 10 22

.

the original stats showing DL sync of 7616kbps very much suggests (guarantees?) interleaving was turned on.

The subsequent stat of 8128kbps pretty much suggests (guarantees?) that interleaving was off.

Am not sure what this means, apart from something is very variable on your line which you knew already

The engineer reset the line. The engineer's diagnostic meter's screen clearly showed I was throttled and that I was in Fast at 10 whereas interleaved at 6 would have been a better choice. Not doing anything about this as FTTC will be installed on Wednesday.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

He arrived "out of the blue", didn't find a line fault (?), moved the NTE5 and fitted a filtered faceplate - will you be charged for this OR engineer's visit?

Apparently not. Being an unfixable fault due to backhaul congestion and crosstalk issues from the cabinet upstream. The master socket was internally broken due to cack handed original installation and had to be replaced anyway. Speed issues will be resolved with FTTC being installed later in the week. I can live with a lousy service for a couple of days especially as my need for the internet during that time will be minimal. I had ordered a data extension kit for my installation in any case.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

TalkTalk want £150 to send an engineer out to investigate the issue. Declined and asked for my MAC code which arrived the next day.

So hopefully you wont be charged if the peak time throughput slow down had something to do with the line from the cabinet to the exchange (E-side) and there was a faulty NTE5...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

TalkTalk want £150 to send an engineer out to investigate the issue. Declined and asked for my MAC code which arrived the next day.

So hopefully you wont be charged if the peak time throughput slow down had something to do with the line from the cabinet to the exchange (E-side) and there was a faulty NTE5...

I guess TalkTalk will try it on but as I am on the verge of being a Zen customer my TalkTalk DD has been cancelled, so we have headed off potential issues there. However the engineer's notes said "uplift carried out". What actually does this mean?

The village has an electronic mailing list centring on topics of the day and ADSL/FTTC issues figure highly at the moment. It seems that problems out of cabinet 1 [the last one to be enabled] are not uncommon with a fair number of people reporting a significant drop off of speed from the day that cabinet 1's twin arrived. What caught my eye was that they were all from TalkTalk subscribers!

So while my situation has improved a little for the moment and with FTTC being installed in my home on Wednesday using Zen, then perhaps I have side stepped a troublesome issue.