Recommend me a router

I've moved on to an exchange where TalkTalk is the only ADSL2+ provider and I'm getting a reasonable 17Mb connection but to get that I need to use the old Plusnet branded Technicolor TG582n router. If I use the TalkTalk supplied router that goes down to 14Mb. I'd like a non-ISP branded router so that all the functionality is opened up but obviously I know that the line is capaple of 17Mb and I don't want to lose any of that. Any suggestions for a suitable replacement would be welcomed.

Stats from Plusnet router

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.019 / 17.213
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1,63 / 1,99
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,7 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,1 / 32,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,5 / 4,1

What does the downstream SNR look like on the TT router ?

I�m thinking stability is going to be dubious using the Plusnet one if the TT one shows 6db.

In reply to a post by sjr:

I'd like a non-ISP branded router so that all the functionality is opened up but obviously I know that the line is capaple of 17Mb and I don't want to lose any of that. Any suggestions for a suitable replacement would be welcomed.

See if you can get hold of a Billion Bipac 7800N - probably has all the functionality that you require and, from personal experience, works great on a ADSL2+ TTB line and is ultra reliable. If you do get one check that it has the latest firmware installed, if not the update is very easy to do.

Good luck

I'll get the stats from the TT router later but the connection is pretty stable at 17Mb with the Plusnet router. I've fitted an ADSLNation filtered faceplate to the master socket so that probably helps.

I'm finding the Billion BiPAC 8800NL R2 for under £60 on a few sites. Is that as good as or better than the 7800N or is it a case of newer not always being better?

In reply to a post by sjr:

I'm finding the Billion BiPAC 8800NL R2 for under £60 on a few sites. Is that as good as or better than the 7800N or is it a case of newer not always being better?

+2 for that - although I always did like (and still have) the R1

TT router stats

Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 1019
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 14469
Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 11.2
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 3.1
Upstream interleave depth: 8
Downstream interleave depth: 64
Line standard: ADSL2+
Upstream line attenuation (dB): 16.8
Downstream line attenuation (dB): 28.3
Upstream output power (dBm): 11.9
Downstream output power (dBm): 17.3
Channel type: Interleaved

Interesting how the routers show differing ADSL2+ downstream attenuations, additionally the TT router is showing interleave depths but the Plusnet router is not.

Is it possible with either router to see the error rates also?

I haven't done much with the connection since I plugged the Plusnet router back in but here's the full stats. Connecting a wee bit faster now Re interleaving, that's a property of the line rather than the router is it not?

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.019 / 17.826
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1,19 / 2,89
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,1 / 31,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,4 / 3,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 7 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 30.288
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 9
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 270

Edited by sjr (Tue 03-Oct-17 19:12:36)

In reply to a post by sjr:

Re interleaving, that's a property of the line rather than the router is it not?

Yes that is correct - the router is just displaying the interleave depth and obviously interleaving has been applied to the line (or in other instances Fastpath, i.e. no interleaving.) The FEC errors that you have now posted from the Plusnet router also indicate interleaving.

Perhaps others can comment, but a TT ADSL target SNRM of 3dB on the downstream is now possible?

Keep an eye on the Error Seconds and CRC Errors (sometimes those errors rates can be relatively high during a reconnection but the rates can be much lower afterwards.) Also keep an eye on the downstream SNRM [SN Margin (....Down)] for significant fluctuations.

ref the SNRM, my TT HG635 reports 2dB following a brief power cut (I think it's called a 'brown out', only dipped for half a second, but enough to reboot the router).

Before then, the TT DLM had fixed the SNRM at 6dB and my speed was around 12Mb/s

Since the reboot it's been steady at 2 or 2.1, the line is stable, and I've got the speed up to 13.3Mb/s

Also, regarding Interleaving; my previous routers (the HG533 and HG633) both said interleaving was on, but the 635 says it's off.

I had intended swapping the routers to see what they reported regarding the interleaving but since the DLM set the SNRM at 2dB I'm reluctant to play with them in case it goes back to 6dB.

OP, is your router the HG633 or the more recent D-Link 3782? My HG633 wasn't very reliable so I dropped it in favour of the older HG635.

In reply to a post by vitrocmax:

ref the SNRM, my TT HG635 reports 2dB following a brief power cut (I think it's called a 'brown out', only dipped for half a second, but enough to reboot the router).

Before then, the TT DLM had fixed the SNRM at 6dB and my speed was around 12Mb/s

Since the reboot it's been steady at 2 or 2.1, the line is stable, and I've got the speed up to 13.3Mb/s

Also, regarding Interleaving; my previous routers (the HG533 and HG633) both said interleaving was on, but the 635 says it's off.

I had intended swapping the routers to see what they reported regarding the interleaving but since the DLM set the SNRM at 2dB I'm reluctant to play with them in case it goes back to 6dB.

Default target margin appears to be 6dB on my TTB ADSL line - I set it to 3dB with a Billion 7800N router and now it only varies between 3.5dB and 4dB night and day. Last reboot was during daylight hours and the link time has been 46 days. BTW the 3dB margin setting survived previous reboots.

Regarding interleaving: every reboot has seen an interleaving depth of 64/8. Perhaps on your TT line interleaving may not be applied to every resync?

I've placed an order for the 8800NL R2 so hopefully it will give speeds as good as the old Plusnet router as well as much more control over the connection.

Billion 8800NL R2 arrived today. Extremely easy to set up and it is currently connected at 17136Kbps with attenuation of 32db and SNR of 3db. That'll do me given where we are in relation to the exchange. A good bit better than the TT HG633 router that never connected anything faster than 14Mb.

That's excellent - hope everything goes well with the Billion

3db noise margin is an option talktalk DLM can choose yes

I've set the SNR on the Billion router to 3 rather than auto and I'm now getting this

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 0.3 10.5
Attenuation (dB) 32.0 18.1
Output Power (dBm) 0.0 12.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 19444 1160
Rate (Kbps) 18375 1019

The SNR has fluctuated between 0.2 and 0.5 and the uptime is 28 hrs so far so it seems to be doing a great job of holding on to the connection. Getting 18Mb from a line with 32.0db attenuation is very good indeed so I'm well pleased.

Just remember to keep the old talktalk one to plug in to diagnose faults. they flatly refused to diagnose any fault for me once until I went into the loft and got the old router out and plugged it in.