Future Fibre 900 Slow WiFi VS old Virgin 500Mb

Hi all, hopefully someone can help out as I'm starting losing the will to live with this situation.

I "upgraded" from Virgin 500Mb package to TT FF 900 with 2x Eero Pro 6 Mesh routers.

I used to have an Asus AC86U router connected to my virgin Hub 3.0 for WiFi around the house and I was always getting 530/540mb around the house on WiFi even though I was only paying for 500 ! Great ! Upload speeds were ok with about 35/40mb. Never needed ethernet since I haven't got a need for it due to the excellent WiFi.

When switching to TT 900 that's where the issue started.... They came in to install the ONT box on the wall and the eero pro 6 routers, and WiFi speeds are abysmal ! I'm getting 250/275mb around the house but upload for some reason is 110mb, so definitely getting the full advertised upload speeds but not download speeds.

I just thought the eero pro 6 was the culprit so I plugged in my old trusty Asus AC86U to the ONT and speeds were exactly the same, 250/275 download 110 up....

I then called TT who told me that from their end they can see I'm getting the full gigabit connection all the way to the ONT... Problem is I'm not ! Then they told me the speeds they're rating is for ethernet only as many factors can affect WiFi, which I understand, but with virgin had the full speeds even on WiFi, and my testing with my old router goes to show it's definitely not a problem with the devices I'm using (as they kept saying my devices need updating 🤦🏻‍♂️) using with a S22 Ultra Samsung phone, MacBook Pro M1 2021, LG oled TV and Xbox Series X, so definitely not an issue with my devices especially when they worked at full speed with virgin !

So what could be the issue because when I run a test on eero app itself it also says speeds are 950mb down and 110 up ? Once again the up speed is absolutely fine and fully working as advertised on all my devices but the down speed is locked on 250/270 on every single device !

I don't believe there's any setting to change on the Eero routers as even my Asus router is also having this issue and TT is adamant there's nothing else to do as they can see I'm getting the full speed...

At a last resort I connected a cat6E cable to my Xbox and yes the download speeds improved to 550mb but still a long way to the 900mb I should be getting and yet TT says I'm getting it full speed...

I am now just outside my cooling off period as they have dragged the whole thing down and cancelling is not an option anymore ! For the sake of £10/month I should have just stuck to virgin and am really regretting the move to TT to be honest !

At a last resort I connected a cat6E cable to my Xbox and yes the download speeds improved to 550mb but still a long way to the 900mb I should be getting and yet TT says I'm getting it full speed...

If you’ve got a GigE to USB adapter for your M1 MacBook - try a wired network connection from it directly into the ONT.

Hi that's what I've tried and am getting about 700mb, but my concern is the wifi speeds, unacceptable 250/270mb when virgin I had the full amount I was paying for. I don't use ethernet around the house at all.

Firstly you ought to be getting over 900, if not around 940 download or so, via a wired connection. Perhaps not sustained, but a peak connection speed at various times of days should be achievable.

WiFi is a whole other beast. Getting around 500 Mbps from a single AP/router in the same room isn’t comparable to a mesh setup. A mesh setup won’t ever have the performance of a single wired AP or multiple wired AP setup, due to the inherent inefficiency in mesh setups.

The mesh is not at fault here, like I said I also connected my old AC86U Asus router in the ONT and I'm also getting those speeds, same as the mesh Ereros so there's definitely an issue here. With virgin and the Asus I was getting 530mb WiFi same as ethernet.

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

Hi that's what I've tried and am getting about 700mb, but my concern is the wifi speeds, unacceptable 250/270mb when virgin I had the full amount I was paying for. I don't use ethernet around the house at all.

So it is something in your property then as you are getting around 700meg when hardwired, so not TT's end. If it was their end or a connection fault you'd never get the 700meg you do hardwired. If you read the small print, no ISP will guarantee you any speed over Wi-Fi because by its very nature it is unreliable.

Have you tried changing the cable from the ONT to mesh/router? It could have got damaged during the changeover.

I know ISP's do not guarantee WiFi speeds but day before TT installed their ONT I was at 530 WiFi / 530 ethernet with virgin (on a 500MB package) and Asus AC86U then one day later, ONT installed and Eero Pro 6 (even only when 1 is plugged in and active, so without mesh setup) 270/275 WiFi / 700 ethernet and with Asus AC86U plugged staright int the ONT same results (270wifi/700 ethernet). Nothing else changed within those 13hrs between virgin and TT, absolutely baffles me ! I've even used 3 different cat cables between the ONT and the router but no difference whatsoever. And why would I get the whole full upload speed (100/110mb) but not the down ? I'm just banging my head as to what the issue is !

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

I know ISP's do not guarantee WiFi speeds but day before TT installed their ONT I was at 530 WiFi / 530 ethernet with virgin (on a 500MB package) and Asus AC86U then one day later, ONT installed and Eero Pro 6 (even only when 1 is plugged in and active, so without mesh setup) 270/275 WiFi / 700 ethernet and with Asus AC86U plugged staright int the ONT same results (270wifi/700 ethernet). Nothing else changed within those 13hrs between virgin and TT, absolutely baffles me ! I've even used 3 different cat cables between the ONT and the router but no difference whatsoever. And why would I get the whole full upload speed (100/110mb) but not the down ? I'm just banging my head as to what the issue is !

Hi,
Would you mind posting the specs of the computer you are using, operating system.
This is just so I can check to see if your device is capable of gigabit speedtest wired?

Also have you tried the command line interface speedtest from Speedtest.net or the desktop app, as browsers can cause speeds to be a lot lower than expected.

I have shown this in the past on a gigabit connection where the command line and desktop app were hitting 940Mbps and the web would struggle getting past 800.

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

Hi that's what I've tried and am getting about 700mb, but my concern is the wifi speeds, unacceptable 250/270mb when virgin I had the full amount I was paying for. I don't use ethernet around the house at all.

As I’ve said previously, 700 is not 940. What USB-C / Thunderbolt adapter are you using when connecting the MacBook directly to the ONT? The MacBook should easily sink the full bandwidth of the connection in both directions when wired.

What speed-tester are you using and to what server(s)?

Where are you located approximately.

In the OP he states a 2021 M1 MBP. It will easily do 1 Gbps in both directions from Thunderbolt (with a decent adapter).

I'm not too bothered about getting 700mb ethernet my concern is the wifi, as like I said I'm not using ethernet at all around the house as all my appliances are just too far for a cable to run around the house. I only tested to see if I was getting the full 940 the eero app says I'm getting as well as TT saying I'm getting.
The problem is that very low speed WiFi wether I'm upstairs or standing right next to the router I get the same 250/270 "capped" speed but uncapped full 110 upload speed. ! And again nothing else has changed in my house within the few hours of the switch between Virgin and TT.
Xbox Series X / PS5 / S22 ultra all giving me the same speeds when doing a speed test, 250/270mb and the tests were done exactly the same with same servers on speed test.net too on browser (both safari / chrome connecting to Norwich server).

There are WiFi diagnostics from the MacBook that can be used to check the PHY:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlf...

Are you placing and testing the WiFi access from the same location as the previous VM connection or somewhere different?

Yep like I said the only variable that has changed is TT, all testing done on the good old sofa about 4 feet away from the router, and always use the same testing server location as they can differ between location. However Xbox / PS5 do not have the option to choose server location since they run their speed test off their main server so those should be consistent.
My question is if my download speed is so highly affected why is my upload speed at the highest of what the theoretical should be, I just don't get it ! It makes me angry when they say over the phone that WiFi can be affected by this and that, yes I get that but coming from 530mb one day and 250mb since, there's a huge gap !

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In the OP he states a 2021 M1 MBP. It will easily do 1 Gbps in both directions from Thunderbolt (with a decent adapter).

Apologies I must have missed that (my connection keeps being intermittent so half the forum keeps loading)

I have seen this type of issue before where speeds suddenly get slower after an ISP change, maybe its time to manually change the channels in the ereo.

Upload speed, which for most Openreach FTTP based services will top out around 115 Mbps, will generally be less affected by poor quality WiFi than the download speed.

This is because even with a noisy environment, sub-par signal strength or both, the WiFI physical access speed (PHY) will still be enough to pass 100 Mbps or thereabouts from your broadband in upstream.

Not so with the downstream - especially if you are trying to achieve multiples of 100's of Mbps.

Hopefully that answers your last question. Do you still want help to diagnose or more thoroughly understand what is potentially going on in your network or shall we leave it there?

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In the OP he states a 2021 M1 MBP. It will easily do 1 Gbps in both directions from Thunderbolt (with a decent adapter).

Apologies I must have missed that (my connection keeps being intermittent so half the forum keeps loading)

I have seen this type of issue before where speeds suddenly get slower after an ISP change, maybe its time to manually change the channels in the ereo.

No need for apologies R, just pointing out the info was there to begin with.

As you say, it may be something quite simple but OP will need to provide further information, diagnostics to see what's possibly going on.

On a Mac; option key + click on the WiFi icon is a good place to start.... The Mac will provide a good amount of MI if one desires to find out...

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 12-Mar-22 18:21:12)

Ok makes sense in terms of upload speeds, thanks.
My down speed is still bugging me massively as I feel like I'm now stuck with TT for 18 months when with virgin I had much better speeds with a lower package than I'm currently on now 😩
I just wish I knew what the issue is ! Can't get my head around it. Is there an inherent issue with fttp and WiFi then or something similar ? Because like I said the day before they came in to do the install I was on 530mb down on all my devices cheers

Do you have your MacBook available? If so follow the brief steps, in my post above and post up the results.

Let's gather some facts to try and understand what your WiFi is doing. OK?

Is there an app or any manual way the OP could copy a large file from one wireless device to another wireless device in his property to test the actual max speed of his wifi ?

https://openspeedtest.com/speed-testing-application-...

….amongst many others. OpenSpeedTest doesn’t require any client software, can be run from anything with a web browser. OP can install the server software on Mac, Windows or Linux box. Whatever the server is, should be wired into the network though for accuracy.

That test would be worth doing if it was me, the fact that the OP can get at least 700Mbps on ethernet but limited to 270Mbps on wireless does seem to indicate the bottleneck is in the wireless not the FTTP. I think the OP should clear their mind of any possible causes until it has been proven as it can cloud decisions.

For accuracy (and max throughput) the OP would need to wire the ‘server’ into the spare LAN port on the eero. No point running this test wireless to wireless. Ditto for any other bandwidth/throughput test on the LAN.

OP could for that matter also do a wired internet speed test from the LAN port on the eero and compare this to a wired speed test with laptop directly connected to the ONT. The speeds should be identical.

To be honest there is a lot of diagnostics that could be done. I’ve asked above several times for a simple check, literally a mouse click and keyboard press but rhe OP just wants to have a moan…

So yeh whatever really.

All good points you make.

I am not sure its intentional moaning by the OP, more likely the OP is blinkered to what they considers to be the obvious cause even when others like yourself are offering to help nail the actual cause.

Your posts may help others if not the OP

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Mar-22 22:02:39)

The OP could also simply use their Asus AC86U router and ditch the Eeros
Given it’s TalkTalk (and likely residential), it’s DHCP and so will work just like their old Virgin setup…which would also help them “diagnose” the issue further.

Already done so as I understand. OP is claiming similar WiFi download performance (as the eero) when the AC86U is put back in play with FTTP connection…wired seems OK…well 700-ish on a 900 service.

Sorry, must have missed that.
Doesn’t add up though does it.

In reply to a post by MilesR:

Doesn’t add up though does it.

Nope

In reply to a post by MilesR:

Sorry, must have missed that.
Doesn’t add up though does it.

I will admit, the OP did say has using a Mac and I have had this exact issue before, slightly different network but basically my mac would achieve fast network speeds locally wirelessly and I connected to another ultrafast network (NOT IN UK) and speeds dropped so was like, is this the new network (as most people would), ran local speed tests so was like, this is weird its slower, so tried the other kit i was using before and it was slow as well, like went from getting 500Mbps wireless to 100-200 Wirelessly, I was confused, then tried rebooting the kit a few times and the chanel changed and then things were back at 500Mbps.

I also rebooted the Mac a lot of times so either could have triggered the fix, what i'm saying is maybe the OP needs to tinker with the wireless settings.

Not sure if anyone has said but the Eros don't have separate SSID's for the 5Ghz and the 2.4Ghz so maybe split those to help with diagnostics as well.

I know its a long shot but it never hurts to try.

Tis more than just the MacBook that's affected R...

From the OP:

Once again the up speed is absolutely fine and fully working as advertised on all my devices but the down speed is locked on 250/270 on every single device !

Logically its something in the new WiFi setup and I suspect the Eero 6 is default pegged at probably something like a 40 Mhz channel widths, which would equate to the 270 Mbps limit.

Question then is why does the AC86U then do they same? I have a theory why but...

Really need to see the WiFi connection info from the MacBook. That is if the OP ever returns....

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Tis more than just the MacBook that's affected R...

From the OP:

Once again the up speed is absolutely fine and fully working as advertised on all my devices but the down speed is locked on 250/270 on every single device !

Logically its something in the new WiFi setup and I suspect the Eero 6 is default pegged at probably something like a 40 Mhz channel widths, which would equate to the 270 Mbps limit.

Question then is why does the AC86U then do they same? I have a theory why but...

Really need to see the WiFi connection info from the MacBook. That is if the OP ever returns....

I must admit, its a strange one, I suspect your theory might involve noise that has suddenly appeared overnight?

or maybe the ONT is in a different place to where the Virgin Modem was originally meaning that the Routers might have been moved.

This could mean that the new placement could be near something that's interfering or causing channel widths to lower from 80Mhz.

I personally bet its on a new placement closer to something electrical. (Maybe a TV, fishtank, aerial)

If the OP comes back it would be interesting to see if it is the case that the routers have moved?

If so the best bet would be to move the router back, get the long ethernet from the ONT to the router then do a wired test then a wireless one to confirm.

You don't pay for wifi.

I'm sorry but what a stupid reply ! Like why did you even take the time to reply 🤦🏻‍♂️

While you here are you still looking for help to understand why you're not getting better throughput on your wifi?

Hi sorry hectic few days !

The ONT was installed exactly where the old Virgin line was, and the router is in the exact same place the Hub 3.0/AC86U was again nothings changed whatsoever in terms of placement.
And again plugging the AC86U in THE ONT straight gives me the same results as the Eero pro 6.

I'm just going to have to accept the fact that for 18 months I'm gonna have to just deal with a bad decision

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

I'm just going to have to accept the fact that for 18 months I'm gonna have to just deal with a bad decision

That implies you're not open to help from the forum which is a disappointment.

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

Hi sorry hectic few days !

The ONT was installed exactly where the old Virgin line was, and the router is in the exact same place the Hub 3.0/AC86U was again nothings changed whatsoever in terms of placement.
And again plugging the AC86U in THE ONT straight gives me the same results as the Eero pro 6.

I'm just going to have to accept the fact that for 18 months I'm gonna have to just deal with a bad decision

No worries. It's your call how you want to play it.

Good luck. 👍

Because you don't seem to understand what you are paying for.

You pay for a fast internet connection to your ONT and that is roughly what you are getting.. The WIFI is a different kettle of fish.

Others on here have asked for details which you seem unwilling to give. I understand you have had a fast WIFI in the past but maybe your current faster speed is too much for your devices.

Edited by broadband66 (Mon 14-Mar-22 13:58:54)

I'm not unwilling to give any details, I work 12hours a day and I only get time to reply when on a break ! I haven't got my MacBook Pro at home at the moment as it's at work so all I currently have for testing is my series x Xbox and my S22 Ultra.
As to my devices not being able to handle the speeds it's just non sense, please read my original post ! I was getting 500+ on all my devices on WiFi with virgin and now I get half of that so it's not my devices that can't handle it ! Especially a Samsung S22 Ultra that got released less than a month ago and can easily get speeds of 2Gb+ !!

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

I'm not unwilling to give any details, I work 12hours a day and I only get time to reply when on a break ! I haven't got my MacBook Pro at home at the moment as it's at work so all I currently have for testing is my series x Xbox and my S22 Ultra.
As to my devices not being able to handle the speeds it's just non sense, please read my original post ! I was getting 500+ on all my devices on WiFi with virgin and now I get half of that so it's not my devices that can't handle it ! Especially a Samsung S22 Ultra that got released less than a month ago and can easily get speeds of 2Gb+ !!

Firstly working on the automatic presumption that this is the fault of the ISP / new broadband connection may not be either the best approach or necessarily correct.

Secondly beyond some very rudimentary 'help', ISP's will not want to get bogged down in solving WiFI (or for that matter any local networking issues). This is because for the large part it is outside of their remit and control and also because they don't have the expertise to deal with the myriad of permutations of user equipment and environment that can cause poor WiFi performance.

When you get a breather (and you have your MacBook at home), perhaps take a look into what is happening on your home WiFi.

Mac's have an excellent reputation for WiFi and networking performance generally but also the built in OS diagnostics facility for WiFi is super helpful...starting with the "press option key + click on WifI symbol in menu bar" Much further detailed information can be found through the one click "Create Wireless Diagnostics Report" from the same menu.

Also try the OpenSpeedTest based wired eero LAN port to WiFi speed testing as noted above to rule in or rule out the ISP connection.

One final thing I would say - more for future reference - if your devices are predominately connected through WiFi, rather than wired, then to some extend a Gigabit connection is wasted - there are very few devices, even using 802.11ax that can reliably push more than 700 Mbps over WiFi especially in many real world conditions (read your not in the same room as the access point). You may be better off with a less expensive 500 Mbps service. Don't be taken in by wild claims of 2 Gbps PHY rates.. they are fantasy outside of a perfect lab environment.

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

I work 12hours a day and I only get time to reply when on a break !

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

all I currently have for testing is my series x Xbox and my S22 Ultra.

Sadly with those two devices and zero time in the week its going to be impossible to get this issue resolved.

The only positive based on what you have said above is that you can't get much time to use the poor wifi at home. All the best.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

You don't pay for wifi.

Not only is this reply unhelpful it's not even strictly correct as the Eero is bundled, so it is definitely being paid for and it's pretty much useless for anything other than Wi-Fi.

To Sebseb888 - you need to take this step by step, the first of which is to properly confirm you are getting full speed from your connection. 700mbps is, close, but also suspiciously low, how did you measure it?

What I'd advise is connecting your Mac M1 to the ONT via a known good Ethernet cable and letting it get a connection. Verify that you can browse etc.

Then install iperf3 (it's a command line utility), open up a terminal window and run the following command.

iperf3 -c speedtest.serverius.net -p 5002

That should really give you full 900Mbps

Once that has been confirmed you need to look at the Wi-Fi connections that you are getting and try to figure out a) whether they are connecting at 2.4 or 5GHz, b) what Wi-Fi standard they think they are using (should be ac), c) what channel No they are on and whether it is crowded and d) what channel bandwidth they have negotiated.

I'm pretty sure the Eero won't give you any of that, the AC86U is more hopeful but, looking at the user manual, while it has a lot of features some of them are a bit dumbed down when it comes to actually figuring out what is going on.

You are obviously aiming at 5Ghz, 802.11ac, 80Mhz channel width and a channel which is free from interference.

Wi-Fi can be odd though - part of the reason I got the TT llink was better bandwidth for my son (game downloads come in multiple 10's of gigabytes these days and would hog the old 50Mbps VDSL connection for hours) but initially we really struggled to get him a good Wi-Fi link but without really doing anything I stopped fiddling and it went from ~270 but with real oddities such as occasions where the d/l speed was in the single digits of Mbps but with upload speeds around 200Mbps and it's now sitting at 7-800 up and down (there's a floor in the way so that's pretty good as 5GHz doesn't really like obstacles). He gets about 300Mbps useful throughput for his PC and the Xbox gets about 130Mbps via a powerline connection (a bit faster would be nice but it's 3x what we used to get to the Xbox and it balances the bandwidth a bit without me having to fiddle with QOS so I'm not totally unhappy).

Do you have a Wi-Fi scanner app on your Galaxy - that can be useful for making sure your router has not picked a crowded channel.

Lastly, as others have said, mesh doesn't give the best speeds because each satellite has to relay the data back to the main router, usually on the same channel, so stick to using the AC86U as a simple AP, at least to start with).

Edited by mr_bean (Mon 14-Mar-22 22:12:37)

The OP made an incorrect statement and you''ll find mine is correct. Many ISPs bundle a modem/router with their service. I have disabled the WIFI on my bundled box and use a different 5 aerial box for WIFI.

The OP had time to have a go at his new ISP but hasn't got the time to give the details that more helpful people are trying to analyse.

Yet rather than try to help you simply offer snarky comments.

I know what you mean about Wi-Fi but if you are renting a bundled Router/AP *and* the ISP makes strong claims about Wi-Fi performance (which TT do as the Eero and the offer of an extra Eero to create a mesh Wi-Fi is strongly positioned on the Future Fibre web page) then I still think you are wrong in your assertion that you are not paying for Wi-Fi.

Had you said that Wi-Fi is variable and largely out of the hands of the ISP that would have been reasonable.

Indeed very few ISPs, even those which bundle APs, make any claims about speeds. BT is a notable exception but they only actually offer a guarantee of 10Mbps which is not exactly stellar performance.

The OP does, however, need to divide the problem up logically and check each aspect - and, so far, he hasn't got back to us.

Maybe everything just started working.

In reply to a post by Sebseb888:

Especially a Samsung S22 Ultra that got released less than a month ago and can easily get speeds of 2Gb+ !!

I can't find any solid specs for an S22 but at a guess it's a 2x2 device at most, so on 802.11ac (your Asus router) the maximum PHY rate with 80MHz wide channels is 866Mbps. This is then shared across all the devices accessing the radio, and if you have any older technology that will be pulling the speeds down as well.

I'd persevere with the Eero Wi-Fi 6 device, but set up a local speed test to rule in/out your Wi-Fi performance as well as the other advice that has been offered here.

Most reasonable people know that WiFi is variable.

I also pay for an "upto" service whether they are allowed to state this or not.

The speed anyone gets is variable whether adsl, vdsl or fibre, and especially WiFi.