unusual problems...

right been with tesco broadband around 5 months now had bad service with them but then it was a similar problem with orange. ive complained to them again and again but they just say theres ad ware and spy ware on my pc but there isnt we have more than one pc anyway basically my problem is that i can connect to my internet connection but when i used a power supply in my pc it would disconnect my internet, then friend came round with his pc same problem every time you would turn this power supply on it would disconnect our internet. but even when i have a power supply that doesn't affect the internet like that i still have other problems im unable to upload properly it will do about 50kb and give up. web pages will take a long time to respond to me or just load up and say its done but comes up completely blank. i generally have problems trying to just connect to websites or servers. so if anyone has any ideas or advice on what to do that would be great much appreciated. thanks
Joel

I'd say, start at the basics, use this guide to test at the NTE test socket with all else disconnected, and then post the results back, also if you are unsure of how to get your statistics, have a read through Kitz's pages. The issue with the power sounds worringly familiar, but you really read to provide a little more detail.

yeh i done that socket test and here are the results

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2272 kbps 288 kbps
Line Attenuation 56 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 17 db 24 db
(without test socket)


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2272 kbps 288 kbps
Line Attenuation 56 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 5 db 24 db
(with test socket)

with that power issue its like the whole internet side of the phone line goes dead no adsl.

so still no joy. was just looking at the stats for a while around 5 minutes the noise margin was going from 0db to 1db and 2db quite low and would randomly go very high around 247463db this wasnt over a long period it was just varying hope this information helps.

Edited by zapmole (Mon 09-Apr-07 23:34:54)

I take it the first set of figures are when you are connected to the test socket, the second when you are plugged in to another socket? The drop in your noise margin suggests that your internal wiring is introducing a lot of noise to the circuit and this then triggers the drops. The power supply would appear to be producing enough noise to push the margin over the edge.

How many extensions do you have? Is everything filtered, including things like Sky boxes and alarm systems?

The high positive number is just the router's way of expressing a negative number, I think -2db in that case.

no the first set were just into the master socket which does have extensions around the house but none of them work for internet is that normal for a new house? only the phone works in them there is 3 extensions built in. so how can the power supply be interfering with the phone line? do i have to get bt out to fix that? i was told on some other forums to contact isp but they don't help at all, tried talking to bt before they just say we're not with them as broadband. 3 extensions everything is filtered that needs to be our sky box isn't plugged in because we don't use the internet on there.

thanks for your help lot more help here than call centers...

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no the first set were just into the master socket which does have extensions around the house but none of them work for internet is that normal for a new house?

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Sounds like builders' wiring, in which case that could make your line very noisy, as well as stopping the other sockets working with ADSL. Take a look at the wiring guide here, then physically check each socket.

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only the phone works in them there is 3 extensions built in.

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That does make me think the wiring is at the heart of your problem. There's a strong chance it's been done badly and, while it will work for voice, it's just putting so much noise on the line that it's stopping ADSL from working. If you don't feel comfortable re-wiring yourself, you may need to get BT out.

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so how can the power supply be interfering with the phone line?

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Most electrical devices emit some noise. Power supplies can emit a lot. If your noise magin is low, then the extra noise can be enough to kill the ADSL signal, the modem becomes unable to distinguish it from all the other noise on the line. It's worth trying to keep power cables away from phone cables as much as possible.

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do i have to get bt out to fix that? i was told on some other forums to contact isp but they don't help at all, tried talking to bt before they just say we're not with them as broadband. 3 extensions everything is filtered that needs to be our sky box isn't plugged in because we don't use the internet on there.

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If you don't want to tackle the wiring yourself once you've read the guide I linked to (and there are many other guides on the 'net), you need to either get a BT engineer via your ISP, or a local contractor. The reason for going via the ISP is that you get an ADSL-trained specialist, not a voice engineer, which would not help you. Only the ISP can get these engineers out, BTw will not talk to you as you are not a customer of theirs.

It might be worth clarifying that the devices which need filters are the analogue ones, eg phones, faxes, analogue modems, Sky boxes. ADSL equipment does not need filtering, that side of the filter is, in fact, a 'pass through' connection.

HTH

i thought the builders might had messed something up. ever since moving into this house been a lot of problems with building work. anyway i downloaded routerstats and monitored my connection everything was stable expect the downstream noise margin. it had dropped down during some points which im guessing is the noise from other appliances. but everyone in this house has just kept on what normally is and so my thought is that maybe next door is interfering but they don't know that. anyway i have a picture here of it

http://www.geocities.com/mattw2_1999/rx_noise.jpg

Just to get that online i had to send it across msn then he had to upload it im suprised it sent over msn.

is this drop affecting long time waiting for a reply from the server and stopping my uploads? for example i would try to upload a video onto youtube or a picture on myspace it would do like first part like 100kb second then wont do a thing afterwards.

That variation in noise margin is on the high side (5db) but not that unusual. However, it would appear that your target noise margin has been raised, presumably to stabilise the line, and that will certainly slow your speed down. Click on the Telnet Router tab, then Terminal. Have a look at the error count there, it may be that you're still getting a lot of errors.

As to electrical noise, it doesn't have to be next door, it could just be mains-borne, especially if the builders ran the power and phone cables together, have you checked the wiring for a bell wire and/or split pair?

The drop in noise margin won't directly affect the response time from the remote server, though a high error count might. It could be exchange or ISP congestion, server load or even a bad choice of settings for RWIN & MTU. What figures are you using?

well i plugged the router into extension plugs and not sure but now they work, i opened up the master socket i think but not sure one of the orange wires had been out but it could of been in cant remember, but anyway it works through them and im getting
ADSL Link
Downstream Upstream Connection Speed
2272 kbps 288 kbps
Line Attenuation
56 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin
8 db 23 db
not much difference

i now do have better connection to my router but i knew that wasn't the problem. web pages are still taking a lot time to respond to a request and still cannot upload

That noise margin is low for a fixed 2Mbps service. Additionally, you shouldn't be getting a 2Mbps service as the upper attenuation limit for that is 43db, with your figures you should be on a 1Mbps service. A call to your ISP might be in order.

Have you checked what MTU & RWIN values you are using? AOL, for example, require 1400 for MTU, while I found Orange worked best with 1430.

i normally had it on 1492 or 1498 but i set it 1500 but i can't find RWIN on the router im using netgear DG834G, and i dont really want to have to call tesco support. 50p a minute! their support isn't that good but yeh to me it does seem worse than 2 meg its more of a 56k connection. been checking the noise margin for downstream this morning been going round 8db and 7db and odd one where it falls quite low.

RWIN is a purely Windows setting, MTU can also be set in Windows and be different to the router's setting.

Download TCP Optimzer from here. Set your router and Windows MTU to 1500, then run the MaxMTU option. That should give you a working figure for your setup. Leave the router at 1500, and change the Windows MTU to the suggested figure. Set RWIN to (MTU-40)*46. Then try TCP Analyzer at the above site, see what it has to say. Finally, go to here and run the Tweak Test. If it reports packet loss, try reducing RWIN.

tried changing them didn't notice much difference. Is the best idea to ring up isp? even despite the ridiculous call rate. tried emailing them again and again they used to give me rubbish and now they just don't respond.

I do sense that noise is a big factor in your problem, and that you may need to get a BT engineer out, which you can only do via your ISP. Note, though, that he will check at the test socket. If all is well there, but not on your internal wiring, you will incur a charge to put things right, probably

Edited by deleted (Fri 13-Apr-07 09:01:13)

right thanks for your help, we have 2 pcs here and laptop i have tried using their usb modem and our own equipment and i really do think it is outside the house but i dont know to be sure i wil ltry to get tesco to do some tests. thanks again

Joel

Hi Joel

Tesco should be able to establish a fair amount about what's happening before they get to sending out an engineer. Just bear in mind that, if they do send one and he finds fault with your wiring, it will cost you. Good luck.

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tried changing them didn't notice much difference. Is the best idea to ring up isp? even despite the ridiculous call rate. tried emailing them again and again they used to give me rubbish and now they just don't respond.

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