HR Dis fault?? Please help!!

Hello guys,
i have found this forum looking for a solution to my latest broadband nightmares and I found it full of useful information and competent helping posts, so please if you can help me out!
I have moved last November into my present house (rented) and when I moved in I transferred an existing Virgin broadband service (8Mb) to the new house. The speed rate was a disastrous 150Kbps Downstream (higher Upstream around 700Kbps) so after trying the useless and expensive Virgin techsupport I just canceled with them and moved straight to O2 Broadband.
In the beginning, after the first couple of weeks of problems were resolved, I was really happy and the service with O2 was stable at around 4-5 Mbps (I live around 3.6 km from the exchange) and although sometime during the day I would lose sync I had a 2 or 3 months of reliable internet access, mostly using my other modem router (a Belkin f5d9630-4). I did notice though that often on weekends the connection would be hard to keep, if available at all but still I could use my broadband connection 80% of the times I needed to.

----- The beginning of the (broadb) end -------

All that stopped at around the beginning of April when the Belkin could not connect any longer at any time, I then swapped back to the O2 wireless box, but that could not connect either. O2 checked my problem, said that something must have been wrong with their modem and sent me a new box, but still no connection. A couple of days and dozens of attempts later, after a physical reset (O2 said they had an outage and therefore box could not find the required IP address anymore) I could finally connect for a couple of days, but then, down again. After hours spent talking to O2 this is the situation:

------ the problem ---------

If I am connected to the internet and at some point receive a phone call, broadband would disconnect. That, although annoying, I could still live with if I could reconnect after the call is finished, which is not the case. The modem seems not to be able to get back on line, never minding the minutes wasted with the O2 wireless assistant checking the connection

When on the other hand the modem cannot get on line If I make a call (usually to O2) then it connects, but only stays connected until the call is on.
In both situations I hear varying levels of interferences on the voice line, from the modem trying to sync, at times very low at times annoying to the point that I need to switch off the modem in order to keep my phone conversation acceptable. The interference on the line seems to be there most of the times lately, but I can recall of times when it was not present, so I don't know what or why causes it and when it manifests itself. When it's there it's there with any of the various microfilters I have available, so it is not them.

On top of that, some days I just can't connect and that is it for the day. No chances. Even 8:00 AM or sooner, it just can't connect. It could then take me hours or days of fiddling around with the filters, swapping modems, restarting the modem, and praying before I can have the connection back.. and that is until someone calls me on the landline!

---- what I checked already -------

checkings I have done already
- I always connect via wire, my choice, and I don't need wireless, so I disable the function on the router (did that on all the 3 ones I used so far)
- I have checked/swapped around all the cables that go to the PC and to the phone line
- Bought a new phone 2 weeks ago to rule out interferences from the phone
- Bought last week two other micorfilter of allegedly better qualty (XF-1e) to add to my collection of 7 i already had, to rule out faulty microfilters
- Tested all the equipment for a full day directly into the test socket (done that more than once and the fault is present even in that circumstance), and always normally connected to the master socket
- I am on ADSL2 now but I don't know if I was moved to that service recently or since the beginning with O2
- when, having problem, if I use the Belkin router I can see that the SNR drops very quickly from 6 to -1.5 and then it is not connection time.

--- odd facts ----

To confuse things more:
when the modem is stuck trying to get back on line, if I change microfilter or modem, 70% of the times I would manage to get a connection. BUT if I don't do anything, the modem usually does not sync back on line for even days.
The funny things about changing microfilters is that they all work, but they need to be swapped. That is, the one that does not work now will work tomorrow, when the connection is down again.. I do not know what is it about filters, i started to think that it is just my imagination or a projection of my hopes to the physical surroundings, but I am just so desperate that I just change them hoping that it would make a difference. (..and somehow, sometimes works..)
Obviously I am now almost totally unable to use the internet in the house, it has become completely unreliable. While writing this, someone called and the connection has gone, and I am not sure if I will be able to post my message today.

-----When I called BT--------

I did call BT to ask them to come and check the line as I said I had interferences on the voice line. They agreed to send out an engineer, but then they called me back reminding me the following - their remote test on the line showed no problems on my line
- the BT engineer would only come to my house and check if there is noise connecting a phone into the test socket, if that is not the case I could be charged up to 160 pounds.

at that point I canceled the appointment, as clearly if they only test with a phone on the BT test socket with no modem conected, they will find no faults. I then went to buy a new phone and ordered the other 2 extra microfilters, just to be sure that it was not faulty equipment to cause the problem.

----- HR dis? -------

I believe from reading in this forum that the problem is an HR dis, but O2 can't fix it and apparently when they raise a case with BT, they only do remote checks and say all is fine.
I have then been warned by BT that it is the internet provider the only one that can raise a fault on the line for the broadband, they also added "tell your provider to contact BT Wholsale Dept. they know that..." so I don't know what to do at this point..
I am both an O2 and a BT customer but they seem not to be willing to do anything to fix this problem. Apart from customer service standars,don't I have any rights? Do you have any idea on what I could or should do? Do you agree that it could be an HR dis fault or have I overlooked something?

here's my stats when i started writing this post

DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 2:17:40
Modulation: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 901 / 4,181
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 4.41 / 42.88
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 34.5 / 56.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 193,800
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4,737 / 11
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 39,810 / 10


Many thanks in advance if you can help me!

Edited by Moment (Sun 11-May-08 14:57:04)

it is down to O2 to resolve any broadband problems by whatever means necessary. If you voice phone works all the time then BT Retail are doing their bit.

The 56.5 dB attenuation suggests that 4M is a tad optimistic and I would ask O2 to increase tyour target SNR margin or cap your sync speed to give you a more robust connection. Look at all those errors. They might actually be upstream errors or it may be misreporting. Both up and down have a tight margin.

If O2 can't / won't up the SNR margin then you could use a tool like DMT with a compatible router to tweak it upwards at your end.

I think changing the filters is a red herring as the benefit is probably from a disconnect - the ADSL side of a filter is a straight through electrical path. Check the socket for corrosion though, just in case.

Thanks Phil,

I am just a bit worried that nothing will ever happen, as I already opened 3 cases with O2 and they closed the first 2 without resolving the issue (apart that one of the guys from O2 who called me asked me to close the case as they have SLAs to meet..). Now I must admit that O2 have always been providing a good service to me, and with a few exceptions the people I spoke to were always willing to help, so I don't think they would object to modifying the SNR.. why shoud they?
That said, I perfectly agree with you that the internet provider must sort out internet problem, but during my numerous conversation with them, one of the second line team operator at O2 insisted that I had to call BT myself because at the end of the day my problem is a line fault and BT are managing the line. It looks like they really do not want to go down that road and prefer me to keep calling them complaining that I can't connect..
Also, can the SNR value cause the interference on the voice line?
Do you eclude the HR dis at all?
I had long periods of stable connections even at 5 Mbps last winter, what changed lately then?.

Alex

if the phone works you can't really report a voice fault to BT or other voice providers. If the line tests electrically OK they'll just clear the fault.

You need a broadband engineer to address an HR Dis fault, and you get them via your ISP. You have to insist if that's what you want, or accept things as they are if you don't want to push it.

Try the higher margin first and see if the problem goes away.

If I am connected to the internet and at some point receive a phone call, broadband would disconnect. That, although annoying, I could still live with if I could reconnect after the call is finished, which is not the case. The modem seems not to be able to get back on line, never minding the minutes wasted with the O2 wireless assistant checking the connection

This is the converse of an HR. With HR, it doesn't work, until the handset is lifted to make or take a call..

In reply to:

---

This is the converse of an HR. With HR, it doesn't work, until the handset is lifted to make or take a call..

---

This is not true, what you describe is a common symptom, but equally what the OP posts is also symptomatic of an HR.

Yarwell's advice is correct. You must persuade or ISP to arrange an LLU SFI visit. Maybe mentioning the noise isn't the best way to motivate them. Just complain of dropping sync.

It seems to me that proof of an ISP is how it deals with problems, when they arise.

Hi and thanks for the advice guys,

I actually never complained about the noise on the line with O2, but mentioned it in the contest of the problem I have with the connection. In fact I very rarely use the phone in the house so I don't mind the noise on the line.

O2 told me that they do not have engineers so they can only raise the case with BT and hope they are willing to fix it.
I kind of believe that is true. I thought that them being BE Unlimited they had their own equipment and engineers, but they told me it is not the case.

Today I have had stable connection during the day. I managed to install and configure routerstats and if that program actually works with this router you can see the SNR graph here:

http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=routstats1105083cm1.gif

I had a stable 5.5 Db at around 6pm it then started going like you can see in the chart.
Assuming that the stats are actually correct, what does that actually means? Does it show a particular problem or is it normal behaviour on the line to have all those peaks?

Alex

In reply to:

---

O2 told me that they do not have engineers so they can only raise the case with BT and hope they are willing to fix it.
I kind of believe that is true. I thought that them being BE Unlimited they had their own equipment and engineers, but they told me it is not the case.

---

O2 don't, but happens is that if they wish to have something like this looked into, they can arrange for a broadband trained Openreach engineer to attend. These visits are known as LLU SFI tasks. BE Unlimited do have their own DSLAM equipment in the exchange.

Well, apparently,I found out today that O2 are sending a BT engineer, right when I started losing hope.. I am a bit worried as my connection held well in the past 48 hours, (meaning that it has dropped a couple of times but I managed to get back on line with the trick of swapping the filters around).. maybe the good weather has somehow improved the situation.. hopefully the engineer will be able to find the problem anyway.. I will post the update after the visit