Line Stats and speed issues

After posting a comment on a current news problem ( BT to charge �90 etc etc ) I was advised by Andrew to post my line stats on the forum
Hope this is the right place as I don't post very often.
BT Speed test gives me a line profile of 1500
I am according to the research I have done 2.7 Km from the exchange

my stats obtained from my Netgear 834g router are
Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 6 db
Think broad band gives me , today a speed of 600kbps and 373 respectively .
Sam knows states I should be able to get upto 3mb and used to previously but a sudden drop in speed occured just over 1 year ago and my ISP (Entanet) have not after several requests have been unable toresolve the problem.
BT have stated that I now have a new line but the line is still unstable , although for the past mont I have had a steady 1.mb but today speed has again dropped to 600 .
Any advice as how to correc tthe problem will be greatly appreciated

Any advice on a resolution would be MOST welcome
TIA
Snoopy

2.7km - as a straight line but around 5km of cable based on the data you've posted.

The 1500 profile fits with the actual connection speed, you could go faster but it looks like you have a 12dB target margin. Which is losing you around 1 to 1.5Meg of speed.

Why is this 12? Probably you had some longish instability periods in the past and the margin was raised to make the line more stable.

Ignoring actual speed test results, how well does the router hold the connection, i.e. if you look at the router interface how many hours does it say the DSL connection has been running?

Your comments about instability seem linked to comments about throughput speed, which may be the result of DSL problems, but can as easily be down to congestion.

Have you looked at the wiring in the property, and some of the things we've suggested in the news that may improve things. If the line is very stable then it may be possible to get BT Wholesale to reduce the target margins.

In regards to your questions posed in your speedy reply,

I have had some stabilty issues over the past 12/15 months whch are well documented with the speed tester both the one on this site and BT speed tester.

The router is able to maintain a good connection and has done since I installed it last year on advice from Think broadband and my own research.
It has been connected this time since 29th May to present when I rebooted it today due to a slow speed being registered, and the router reporting connection at 896 kbs when the line profile showed 1500, reboot increased connection speed back to 1856 .
The house wiring is all in good order according to BT . it enters the home and the filter is plugged directly into the BT master socket and the router and telephone plugged into the filter. There is no other wiring in the home as I have removed it all .
BT fitted a new master socket last year but that made no improvement. They have reportedly put me on a new line and all that appears to have achieved is improve the stabilty as I was connected at a constant 1.1mbs download speed .
the stats at 1845 today Friday are
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 6 db
Any further advice as to improve things would be appreciated.
Would one of these twisted wire connectors help ?
Thanks again fo rthe response and advice

Regards
Snoopy ( Dave)

Edited by deleted (Fri 13-Jun-08 17:47:35)

Odd for you to sync at 896 and have a 1500 profile - this shouldnt happen, unless the modem recently resync'd to a lower speed and the database telling you the IP profile has not yet caught up.

Looks like probably little you do do, if the modem was holding around 1800Kbps all the time I'd suggest a lowering of the target noise margins, but if you are seeing the variations that you are then its possibly going to make things more unstable.

Twisted pair leads - probably very little difference. If turning off as much electrical kit in the home as possible makes no difference, then a new RJ11 lead is probably not going to make much difference

2.7km - as a straight line but around 5km of cable based on the data you've posted.

60dB = approx. 5km.
I wonder how long that makes my 57dB "6.94km" line (he says, knowing the 6.94km is a duff bit of BT data they've stuffed me with)

Such a shame the LLU companies follow the LLU checker even though it can be wrong

If you are blessed with thicker copper then attenuation can be lower on a longer line, thus any conversion from attenuation to distance and fine versa is always approximate

If you are blessed with thicker copper then attenuation can be lower on a longer line, thus any conversion from attenuation to distance and fine versa is always approximate

Except when you know the real line length (5.23km), and you know the BT data (6.94km) provided for the LLU checker is incorrect.

Either way (incorrect data, or thinner/thicker copper) shows the LLU companies shouldn't be blindly following the data provided by BT, to decide if ADSL2+ will work on a particular line.
As I've mentioned before, ADSL2+ will work on my line, but the LLU providers think it won't (or at least 1st line sales/support think that), and they have no internal procedures which would allow them to be flexible.
If BT (via WBC) think a line is suitable for ADSL2+, what makes BE, O2, Bulldog, etc. think it won't work?

Basically, I think it's a pretty poor show that due to BT's duff data, and the inflexibility of the LLU companies, I'm stuck with a BTw product, when another (LLU) product should be available to me (and at a lower price, too).
So I'm being punished, along with a good many others, (by way of higher charges) because of BT's screw up, and LLU companies being unwilling to bend

Further to my posts of yesterday Mr Saffron asked how well the modem kept the connection .

I can report the following data since yesterday , ( not that it tells me very much ) and hope that it helps
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 34186 51181 0 117 526 23:53:04
LAN 10M/100M 18819 0 0 24 0 23:53:50
WLAN 11M/54M 62978 53344 0 555 135 23:53:39

I just wished I could comprehend what all the figures and the like meant so that I knew what I was talking about if I eventually complain to BT /ISP .
But I do not think its an ISP problem more a BT W one ..

Does any one agree?
Snoopy

If the line keeps the sync or when it does retrain is within 100-200Kbps then I can goto BT Wholesale and get the margin tweaked down for you

Thanks to the information supplied by Mr Saffron I went back to my isp ( Entanet) and spoke at length to them and they agreed that there was a mismatch on the line , they then raised a fault with BT .
It appears to be quite stable ATM at a line profile of 2000 and a download speed of 1.6Mbs. My noise levels have decrease slightly and although the line attenuation seems to close to the limit things have improved
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1920 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 6 db
I have now been connected as per tis list
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 319042 406245 0 165 2476 47:05:58
LAN 10M/100M 61399 0 0 16 0 124:04:00
WLAN 11M/54M 571850 486030 0 1239 159 124:03:49

( The difference in times is due to a COMPLETE loss of telephone and ADSL line for several minutes)

I will keep an eye on the situation but Things are as I stated greatly improved and for that I thank you far ALL the help and hope that I do not need to come back for MORE advice .

Regards

Here are the stats since I last posted, with reagrds to your comments about contacting BT to get the SNR lowered

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 448731 703319 0 113 709 257:30:18
LAN 10M/100M 200999 0 0 23 0 257:30:42
WLAN 11M/54M 810175 660767 0 720 138 257:30:31

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 11 db 6 db

The line profile remains at 1500

Just as a matter of interest y neighbour who is with BT has after many visit from the engineers got a connection speed of 4MB seems strange .

Any help you could give to get the line back to what I use to be would be MOST helpful.

From your first post...

I should be able to get upto 3mb and used to previously

During the first 10 days of the life of a Max connection the MSR is determined based on the lowest sync achieved over that time. If the sync drops to consistanly below 70% of that rate then BT will accept a line fault report. If yours really did used to manage 3Mbps then it sounds like something has gone wrong (and it seems it must have raised your attenuation as 3Mbps on 60dB is unlikely imo)

IMO you need to ask Entanet to find out what BT recorded as your MSR and if you are now below 70% of that get a fault raised.

HI There thanks for your reply as I am a silver surfer etc and have only just recenlty been trying to understand the figurs and abrreviations used in the ADSL world I can only go on what my connection speeds where prior to March 2007, it is only since i have found out how toget these figure that I realised . my dowm speed was back in 2007 very good see here . Preior to that dat I had been with PIPEX ( sorry, and long long story )
I posted the stat because Mr Safffron told me in a previous post that HE could get BT to lower the SNR or have I misunderstood him??? ( Quite likely) I raised several faults with my ISP ( Entanet ) who I must admit have been very good in trying to assist. I am at now trying to get things back towhere they used to be . All my neigbours seeem to be getting better results than me and I find it hard to see the reason why .
I have tried three different routers ( on advice ) but that does not seem to make any difference, removed ALL the surplus wiring from the house ( plug in BT TEST SOCKET ) and bought good quality filters and wiring .
ANY ADVICE WELCOME

Ask Entanet what the MSR is for your line. This is the Maximum Stable Rate recorded in its initial 10 days of operation on Max. If the current speed is less than this then it is a fault and should be reported as such.


Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 11 db 6 db

while not the best 1.8M on 60 dB attenuation isn't bad. 60 dB used to be the 512k limit then it became the 1M limit, to give some context.

I'm not sure whether the 6 dB margin refers to upstream or downstream, some web interfaces have these reversed.

Thanks for your reply and explanations thwey ahve been helpful to an old guy trying to come to terms with this modern phrasiology and gizmos .

the 6db refers to the upstream
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 60 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 6 db

What I find quite amazing is the variation over the past weeks months as to the line profile.
and I seem not to be able to get any explanation to it.

When the profile drops like it has then I call my help desk who are incidently very good and things revert back after a few hours to this .
I just wished I could get the speed I used to get when I first joined.