ADSL Disconnection and Instability Issues

I realise this must be an often talked about subject, but believe me, I have googled around on these issues, and have not found anything to be helpful.

Basically, my house has very unstable ADSL. The connection will drop out every few hours, for no apparent reason, and also every time the phone rings (even when no phones are plugged in). All phones have working microfilters, as does the router, which is a Linksys WAG54GX2. The problem happened on an old Belkin router, and also on a USB speedtouch modem.

The connection stats are here: http://i47.tinypic.com/301ng1t.jpg As far as I know, these are all within acceptable ranges.

The router log says: http://pastebin.com/m579695ee when a disconnection happens.


A few ideas of what to try, but involve fiddling and I'm not sure if they will work:

-Disconnect bell/ring wire from bt master socket, which will also disconnect it from all phones in the house. This might stop it dropping out when the phones ring?

-Inside master socket, disconnect all in-house extensions entirely, to either isolate the problem inside or outside the house.


I have contacted my ISP (Orange) on this, but they are of no help.

Best place to start is in the BT TEST socket. By using the TEST socket all your internal phone wiring and equipment is disconnected (unless it isn't wired up correctly).

Try running from there to see if your stability and stats improve - if things are the same then you know it's not your wiring.

Yeah I did go to try that, but the AB bt wires go directly to the faceplate, along with the extension wires. I assume this is wired "incorrectly"?

Hi, that doesn't sound like you have a modern master socket (NTE5) - does it have a removable lower faceplate like the one in my picture?

If you haven't got an NTE5 start by disconnecting EVERYTHING but your router - SKY boxes etc. can cause problems.

It does have the removable lower plate, yes. I'm pretty sure it's a modern one.

The "internal socket" is just not wired to anything.

That doesn't sound right then - can you take a photo?

If you follow the phone cable as it enters your home is this the first BT box it goes to?

I don't have a camera at the moment.

The incoming phone line goes into a heatshrinked section, where I assume the AB wires turn into the 4 internal wires. These 4 wires then go directly into the faceplate, along with the wires to internet extensions. So the "test socket" is bypassed entirely.

Sounds like someone has messed that up from what I can understand!
I'm not sure what BT allow you to do in this circumstance - they would probably say "dont touch anything!".

Others might say just removed the extensions and/or wire up the NTE5 correctly so the test socket etc. works as it should.

How long has it been like this or has the wiring recently been changed?

NB. If you should decide to change the wiring remember there's 50v (90v if someone rings)...

It's been like this for years. I guess an engineer put it like that. I guess I could phone BT and ask them to send an enginner, although if they'd want a £100+ callout fee for that they can forget it.

Unfortunately BT will no-doubt charge for this. I know someone that had a bill for £233 for having a new NTE5 fitted!!! They managed to dispute the charges with BT and got their money back in the end.

I wonder if someone in the past has fitted their own NTE5 which would explain why it's not wired correctly?

Perhaps see what others say - but I think I know what I would do...

Yeah... how much current is in the wires? How easy is it to get electrocuted? haha.

I'm sure it would be pretty easy to open up the heatshrink and put the right wires in the right places, and a BT engineer would probably not even reallise you'd been in there.

BT engineers do not use heat shrink, so that make me suspicious.

If you remove the lower faceplate only and plug a phone into the internal socket (test socket) do you get dialling tone and can you make a call?

In reply to a post by joshd:

Yeah... how much current is in the wires? How easy is it to get electrocuted? haha.

I'm sure it would be pretty easy to open up the heatshrink and put the right wires in the right places, and a BT engineer would probably not even reallise you'd been in there.

The current might give you a "tingle" (or even a jolt if the phone rings), but nothing dangerous. Just rewire the socket properly. BT don't keep any records - if you make a neat job, nobody will be any the wiser.

In reply to a post by Hatari:

BT engineers do not use heat shrink, so that make me suspicious.

If you remove the lower faceplate only and plug a phone into the internal socket (test socket) do you get dialling tone and can you make a call?

Nope, it's definitly not connected.

I know this may seem stupid, is it really the Master socket or could one of the others be the master.

I just cannot understand a BT engineer wiring an NTE5 incorrectly.

I may be that the Test Socket is faulty and someone has by-passed it. If that turns out to be the case, at least you should be able to get it repaired free of charge once everything is correctly wired.

John.

In reply to a post by Hatari:

I know this may seem stupid, is it really the Master socket or could one of the others be the master.

Hi Hatari, have you read the earlier posts? ...

Yep, but there is something very funny here so start from the beginning again.

Reading from the beginning, it seems the OP's Master Socket has been incorrectly fitted by persons unknown...

Edited by b4dger (Tue 15-Dec-09 18:52:32)

That is one interpretation. Another is that it was a socket put in by persons unknown and is an extension from the Master.

I do not know which hence the question.

Nope, this is definitly the master socket. It's right where the phone line comes into the house.

If you do not feel up to it, you need to find a friendly telecoms engineer and get him/her to wire it correctly. With that done some of your problems might improve.

OK so I was away for a while.

On closer inspection, the master socket is NOT the master socket, the wires are all in a big tangle, and then go to a different socket in another room. When the router is plugged into the test socket here (through a microfilter) it syncs the downstream dsl at 3.8mbit up from ~2mbit, so the internet house wiring is obviously not great, but it still disconnects when the phone rings.

What is my next course of action from here?

EDIT: also I've tried a few microfilters, so I don't think it's the microfilter.

Edited by joshd (Tue 29-Dec-09 16:27:11)

Hi, 'we' are sort of where we were before - your internal wiring needs sorting out!

Officially you might need BT to do the work.
But as things are already 'illicit' (as BT would call it!) I would be inclined to remove all the unnecessary connections and try to get your Master Socket sorted out. But remembering how things are, you might need to get someone to do this for you if you aren't happy doing the work. Ideally the NTE5 that you previously thought was the Master sounds like the one to wire up correctly - i.e. The nearest point to where the wires enter your home.

If you ask BT, they could charge £195 to fit a new NTE5 !!! Cheaper to get a new line installed ?!?

Hi joshd

This site may help you and if you need talking through anything shout.

OK, well I phoned BT, and they said that because the problem occurs when the router is plugged into the test socket, the problem is with their part of the line, and an engineer is coming to investigate.

Since the issue is not because of something my side of the master socket, I SHOULDN'T get charged a huge callout fee, and I am hoping to high hell that I don't.

(This is for the disconnection when the phone rings issue, I appreciate that the low connection speed IS the house wiring, but not what I want the engineer to sort out.)

EDIT: by the way, I think things are no longer "illicit", the master socket has simply been moved, when we used to have an ISDN setup. The test port in the other room works as expected.

EDIT2: Also, if you use a filtered faceplate that separates internet and phone right at the master socket, is this the same, "interference wise", as plugging the router directly into the test socket, or will dodgy house wiring still affect this?

Edited by joshd (Tue 29-Dec-09 22:47:43)

In reply to a post by joshd:

OK, well I phoned BT, and they said that because the problem occurs when the router is plugged into the test socket, the problem is with their part of the line, and an engineer is coming to investigate.

Since the issue is not because of something my side of the master socket, I SHOULDN'T get charged a huge callout fee, and I am hoping to high hell that I don't.

(This is for the disconnection when the phone rings issue, I appreciate that the low connection speed IS the house wiring, but not what I want the engineer to sort out.)

Make sure the BT engineer does not test on your side of the wiring. They are always looking for ways to turn a visit into a chargeable one.

In reply to a post by joshd:

EDIT: by the way, I think things are no longer "illicit", the master socket has simply been moved, when we used to have an ISDN setup. The test port in the other room works as expected.

Surprised that the old Master was left, but the BT engineer will sort out which is the true master.

In reply to a post by joshd:

EDIT2: Also, if you use a filtered faceplate that separates internet and phone right at the master socket, is this the same, "interference wise", as plugging the router directly into the test socket, or will dodgy house wiring still affect this?

Yes as it totally separates the extensions from the incoming broadband line. Remember that you will then only have broadband available at the Master socket and nowhere else in the house. One important point when you need to test, you will need to remove the Filtered faceplate and plug into the test socket behind it using a loose filter so keep a couple of spare loose filters in your test box

BT for some reason sent a line engineer instead of a broadband engineer, but I guess our ISP is not BT anyway.

He tested the line, and it is fine, and also tested the internal wiring, which is also fine.

I have now tried to get Orange to send a broadband engineer, but they are insisting on running some line test from their end first, and I have to get back to them in 48h for the results. I have tried this route before, but never got anywhere as they just said the line was "fine". Hopefully it will go better this time.

In reply to a post by joshd:

BT for some reason sent a line engineer instead of a broadband engineer, but I guess our ISP is not BT anyway.

He tested the line, and it is fine, and also tested the internal wiring, which is also fine.

I have now tried to get Orange to send a broadband engineer, but they are insisting on running some line test from their end first, and I have to get back to them in 48h for the results. I have tried this route before, but never got anywhere as they just said the line was "fine". Hopefully it will go better this time.

Those of a cynical nature might think that Orange don't want to get billed for the BB engineer's visit

Agree some ISPs do not like sending out BB engineers

OK, so this is an old thread, but I have been away at uni and not been able to do anything with the adsl connection.

So we got billed for the BT engineer turning up and doing basically nothing, argued on the phone, got the money back.

I also fitted a filtered faceplate, and sync speeds went for ~2mbit to ~3.5-4mbit, however we seem to be constantly throttled by Orange, and so don't enjoy the full speeds avaliable.

I plan to move to O2 for their unlimited data, (note that BT Wholesale is all we have avalilable on our exchange).

The most annoying thing, though, is that we STILL have connection dropouts every time the phone rings, and when you put the phone down, and I have been unable to get Orange to bother doing the slightest thing about it. I am kinda sick of getting asked to check my microfilters over and over again.

I hope maybe that if I move to O2, their tech support might be a little better.

Hi joshd!

Did you/BT ever manage to sort out your wiring? Are you now happy that your 'Master Socket' really is a correctly wired master?

If your ADSL connection drops when the phone rings then it does sound as if you have either a line fault or an internal wiring/filter issue - hence the importance of making sure your BT Master Socket is correctly wired etc.

EDIT: re. moving to O2 - many people report their non-LLU product is "not-so-good".
I'm with Freeola (an Entanet reseller) who I can recommend - no contract, so you could just try for a month. But it you have a BT line fault you can't beat AAISP to get it sorted.

You reply every 7 months, I'm much quicker

Edited by b4dger (Sat 03-Jul-10 17:44:48)

Well the (non-broadband) engineer that came said he couldn't see any faults with the internal wiring, so I am not sure what the problem is really. I guess we need a broadband engineer to come and test things, but getting orange to send one is basically not possible.

The wiring is fine, the only issue that confused me was the fact that the master socket had been moved.

There are NO LLU services avaliable at all at my exchange: http://www.samknows.com/old/broadband/exchange.php?e...

Does the connection drop when you are connected to the TEST socket - behind the removable faceplate?

Yes

Sounds like you have a line fault then.

Yeah, I think so. No idea how to go about getting it fixed though. Phoning ISP never gets me anywhere.

Hi joshd,

If you need assistance with this issue, I will be happy to put you in touch with a colleague in a specialist technical team, so we can investigate further. Please contact me via to [email protected] and include your landline/broadband account number.

So I can pick up your mail quickly, please add 'Jonathan Orange Response' in the first line.

Hope this helps

Jonathan
Orange Response Team

E-mail sent. Nice to see an ISP checking out forums like these!

Please remember to let us (TBB) know how you get on!

I found a useful program! This is what happens when I simply pick up the phone off the hook and put it back. The SNR takes a massive tumble, CRC errors apear, and the DSL sync is lost:

http://i30.tinypic.com/4jua0w.jpg

EDIT: the 2nd drop in SNR is a ringback test. The SNR got to -4.4bB

http://i28.tinypic.com/m8pt85.jpg


Also the graph on the left shows no errored packets at all, untill I use the phone.

Edited by joshd (Sat 10-Jul-10 10:00:55)

Along with DMT I can also recommend RouterStats for monitoring your connection!