How do you know if you're using ADSL2+?

Hi, Virgin Media updated my exchange to ADSL2+ last night and testing this morning I found a slight increase in Download speed but almost a doubling of Upload speed.

I am using my original router a 3com 3CWE754G72-A which appears to work.

Question 1; how do you know if you are using ADSL2 or ADSL? Will the new DSLAM at the exchange default to ADSL if it doesn't find an ADSL2 router connected at my end; is it backward compatible?

Question 2; do ADSL2 DSLAMS work the same as ADSL ones where they gradually ramp up your download speed over a few days when a new connection is made. It's obviously early days yet but would be nice to know.

At the moment I'm seeing 5MB sync on the router stats (around 4 Mb before) and Upload speeds on tests have gone to around 0.7Mb (around 0.370Mb before).

Is this a clue that I'm actually syncing on ADSL2+ or is the speed increase due to some other reason.

I haven't tried my other TP-link ADSL2 router yet, but have never been able to make it work when I was on the ADSL connection.

Although I'm only 1mile from the exchange I have the poor speed due to a main 500pr corroded run of cable in my route; according to my friendly linesman. Hoping they will replace it soon.

Many thanks in advance for any info.

Mike.

Got another code for that router, as google claims it does not exist.

Q1. You usually can tell from the router status pages reporting using ADSL2+, or a different G.992 number to usual.

Q2. DSLAMs don't work that way. A DSLAM has no memory and negotiaties the connection uniquely every time. External DLM systems can monitor the results of these negotiations, and based on rules a provider sets, alter some of the parameters to tweak the negotiation of speed. Most DLM systems start at fastest speed on day and only slow down if line is unstable, Sky starts at 4Meg (if possible) and rises thereafter. Cable and Wireless who provide the Virgin service don't know.

The 0.7Meg sync is possible with ADSL, but generally indicates you have now moved to either C&W LLU service or the BT Wholesale WBC services. You are not going to get much more than the 1 Meg boost from ADSL2+ anyway, so based on information before us, you probably are on ADSL2+ now.

If your upload speed has increased and you are not paying for an ADSLMax Premium product, chances are your connection has been switched to an MSAN.

In answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the newer MSANs do support ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+, however if you are on a long line, the DLM may automatically switch you to ADSL2.


I'd say that you have been upgraded due to the fact you used to get around 0.37Mb upload (Which is typical for ADSLMax products) and it has now gone up to around 0.7Mb.

Like MrSaffron, I was unable to find any reference to the router you are using; Are you sure you got the model number correct? If its an old router, it might be worth getting a new one or seeing about getting your TP-Link router working. (Have you tried to reset it?)

On the upload side of things, ADSL customers on 0.37 can request an 'ADSL max premium' upgrade, which is not free. Speeds will increase to 0.7 Meg (832k sync). ADSL2/2+ customers get upgarded to 832k automatically, but can request a free upgrade to max premium (basically the uncapping of the upload) to 1 Meg.

If you're not getting charged more, or didn't reuest anything, it's likely it's an ADSL2 upgrade.

Pop your exchange into Sam Knows and see if your exchange is ADSL2 upgraded or has an RFS data which is past or very near.

Thanks for the replies Andrew and chris; the router is a 3CRWE754G72-A (sorry for the typo).

Virgin did answer on the VM forum site that the upgrade was to ADSL2+.

The upload has always been around 0.370Mb since I upgraded from dial-up to broadband, and the increase happened today after the upgrade at the exchange. If the 3com router is capable of ADSL2 then I guess that I am c9onnected in that mode. I did ask this question on another thread but nobody seemed to know, and the data sheets didn't help either; but I seem to remember my son (a network programmer) telling me that he thought it did work on ADSL2.

However it's quite old now and I did intend using the TP-link TD-W8920G, but couldn't get it to work with ADSL (perhaps it doesn't) but will have another try when my son is there at the weekend. I think this router is only a couple of years old at the most. I think it's probably a better one as you can boost the wireless output on it if needed. I'm not sure if better modems will receive a better download speed?

Have the router status pages before and after...

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/repairman77/AD...[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/repairman77/AD...[/IMG]

Mike.

Camieab; thanks for the reply...

Samknows has been saying this for months...
ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
Your exchange should have ADSL2+ services installed by the 31st of March 2012

Virgin said the upgrade was to ADSL2+.

I was just wondering if I was actually connected in that way. I haven't been asked for more money or requested any upgrade.

Mike.

Without working this out, at 41/7 attn/snr you should be seeing a sync of 8M or more.

Edited by Deadbeat (Thu 17-May-12 12:56:22)

Deadbeat, before the line fault here at Xmas I used to get 6Mb on a 6.5Mb IP profile; but in repairing it they swapped me to a grotty pair (and they don't care because the phone stats are OK, and I haven't got BB with them). There's a 300metre stretch of corroded cable in the route and that's accounting for the poor speed.
I think it's possible theoretically to get around 18Mb on my distance from the exchange with good cable on ADSL2+. But that's wishful thinking.

Mike.

C&W LLU if it is not is ADSL2+ (and ADSL2 and ADSL)

http://www.farina1.com/adsl suggests

The range of ADSL speeds expected at this attenuation are 4800Kbps to 6300Kbps
Your ADSL2+ speeds are likely to be in the range 7250Kbps to 11000Kbps.

The fact the noise margin is 7dB and you only get 5088Kbps points to a wiring problem, have a look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/radsl.htm...

Hi Andrew, sorry for delay in replying Real Life got in the way. LOL.

I've done the tests with the router plugged straight into the back of the NTL5 socket and there's no difference. Noise figure and attenuation the same. Had to do the tests on a laptop (wireless) but done before and after on the same one.
There was a very slight increase in sync but could have been accounted for by connection to a different BAM at Virgins system. Around 4.8-5.1MB.
So that rules out dodgy wiring, although I was 99% sure that it was OK due to previous tests.

I'm pretty sure I'm on ADSL2 as the router behaves in a different way. ADSL used to have the Online light on permanently when no traffic and flashing with traffic and use to go off after 6 minutes of no connection (leaving the sync on of course).
Now the Online light flashes 4 bleeps all the time, and stays on with no connections active to PBs.

The only thing I can think of is that the old 3com router is not that compatible with ADSL2, although it's working with it.

I have the TP-link ADSL2+ one to try at the weekend; that'll obviously be better in the long run anyway. Once we have that up and working I'll come back with the results.

When Virgin technical tested the line they said there was noise on it but my mate the linesman said he couldn't hear any. I think I know who to believe; VM do tend to fob you off when you complain about low speeds; it's never ever their fault, LOL.

I'm pretty sure that most of the problems are BT's bad line, as it's a known problem, so I'm hoping they'll sort that soon. With a bit of luck I'll probably get perhaps 10Mb or more, I had 6.5Mb IP profile on ADSL when it was good.

Mike.

In reply to a post by RepairExpert:

Deadbeat, before the line fault here at Xmas I used to get 6Mb on a 6.5Mb IP profile; but in repairing it they swapped me to a grotty pair (and they don't care because the phone stats are OK, and I haven't got BB with them). There's a 300metre stretch of corroded cable in the route and that's accounting for the poor speed.
I think it's possible theoretically to get around 18Mb on my distance from the exchange with good cable on ADSL2+. But that's wishful thinking.

Mike.

I know all about pair swaps!
ADSL2/2+ will tend to see any noise "faults" that may have been ignored by ADSL because of the higher frequencies involved. From the little that I've seen of TP-Link kit it seems to be pretty good so it's probably best to hold any judgement until your new router is hooked up.

Thanks Deadbeat; that could be the problem then; noise. Hopefully will get the TP-link one hooked up on Sunday when my son is here; he's the expert on these things.
Will keep you updated.

Really peed off when they swapped my pair over from a really great one to a carp one; I'm sure some careless linesman dissed one leg of the good one when they were messing about in the cabinet at the other end of the road; they're there so often, I'm surprised they don't set up a tent and sleep there LOL.

Mike

In reply to a post by RepairExpert:

Thanks Deadbeat; that could be the problem then; noise. Hopefully will get the TP-link one hooked up on Sunday when my son is here; he's the expert on these things.
Will keep you updated.

Really peed off when they swapped my pair over from a really great one to a carp one; I'm sure some careless linesman dissed one leg of the good one when they were messing about in the cabinet at the other end of the road; they're there so often, I'm surprised they don't set up a tent and sleep there LOL.

Mike

I've had 3 downward spiralling pair swaps over the last few years so be prepared!
Remember of course that the increased noise susceptibility also applies to conditions on your side of the NTE so if possible, it's worth reviewing your internal cabling and it's quality/routing etc as well.

Hi Deadbeat; all the wiring and cabling is OK; I've done the test from the back of the NTL5 socket and there's no real difference; it's just this bad line that's causing it I think; they are having so much trouble down our end of the village they'll just have to replace the bad length of cable in the end.

It was rumoured that we are going to get FTTC at the end of the year (to 300 metres of my home) but I'll believe it when I see it. That would surely give me a very good speed; near to maximum I think; can't wait.

Mike.

Just found this thread on the Virgin forum...
http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Broadband-down-y...

(Worth reading it all if you have time; both pages.)

It appears that others have this problem and ADSL2 will not work properly until VM lift the 'up to 8Mb' speed cap, for which they want a lot more money.

I've been looking at the BT deals and if VM can't sort this out then I'm off to there. I already have the line from BT so should be no problem changing over.

This idea of 'new customer only' deals really gets on my nerves. You stay with a company for a decade or more and they give newcomers deals significantly below what you pay.

Will try and hook up the TP-link modem today and see if I get any improvement.

With 41dB att and 7dB noise margin I should get 5Mb on ADSL and 9-10Mb on ADSL2+. On a quiet day I get 4Mb.

Will let you know how I get on.

Mike.

Update; my son was unable to get the TP-link modem working on the VM connection; so I'm ringing BT and VM tomorrow to try and sort the change over to BT package; should save a considerable sum each month too. Thanks for all your help.

Edited by deleted (Sun 20-May-12 16:52:14)

Well that was a waste of time... rang BT and they did a check... best they could offer on the line with the BT hub is 3-4Mb. Getting 4Mb now.
According to that checker posted above with my router stats I should be able to get 9-10Mb on ADSL2+.

Back to the drawing board... 2nd thought's think I'll just give up and wait till they repair that faulty cable then take another look.

Mike.

A fault cable is usually reflected in a poor attenuation for the actual length of cable.

You may actually be being limited by the C&W LLU (if memory is working this morning) that your service is on.

The checkers are only guesstimates - The real world figures are dictated by your line stats which BT have no way of knowing.

Edited by Deadbeat (Mon 21-May-12 10:22:43)

Thanks Andrew and Deadbeat; it could be some restriction on LLU; will have to ask Virgin.

There was another user on VM who had a similar problem (in the link I posted above) and they said they would have to lift the 8Mb limit for him, but he'd have to pay more; dear enough already. But I can't really see how you couldn't get 'up to 8Mb' on ADSL2+?

Will have to live with these '3rd World' speeds I guess till they repair the cable or move to Korea or Japan LOL.

Mike.

Edited by deleted (Mon 21-May-12 11:34:41)

If the voice performance of the line is OK they will probably never "repair" it unless their is a definite fault.

Unfortunately a line which performs poorly for ADSL doesnt count as faulty.

I don't think the VM is the best ISP to use if you arent on their cable network (which has its own issues).

Depending on who has the exchange unbundled BE (in the past anyway) and Andrews & Arnold have good reputations for getting BT to fix this sort of issue.

Thanks for your comments greenglide; you are right, as long as you can hear both ways on the telephone they don't count ADSL as a priority and as I'm within the acceptable limits of ADSL for that line (1.5-4Mb) they won't do anything about it; and VM can't force them to.

I'm only around 1 mile from the exchange; but the main fault is a length of damaged and corroded cable (containing 500 pairs) and they would rather send engineers out day after day trying to fix faults related to it than bite the bullet and replace it.

There were rumours that FTTC was due this year so maybe they are waiting till they do that. In the meantime around 500 homes are suffering with poor ADSL speeds or constantly failing phone lines. Some poor people at the other end of my street have been without a decent service for several months.

Rarely a day goes by when I don't see engineers fiddling about in the cabinets.

Once the cable has been fixed I should see something around 6-10Mb at least. With FTTC and only 300 metres of cable to my home from the cabinet I should get even better speeds.

Mike.