BT Master Socket and BT Infinity

I'd like some advice on how likely I am to be able to get Infinity installed in my flat. I attempted once before to get it but had an installation problem due to BT apparently being unable to relocate my master socket for some reason which was never fully explained to me. This lead to me to cancel my planned migration and continue with my ADSL2 connection with O2.

I can't make any sense of the wiring so any help would be great. This is how it's been left by the builders of my development of flats seven years ago.

My BT Master socket is located in my fuse cupboard by my front door as pictured below.

BT Master Socket

This is what is inside the double gang socket above the BT Master socket covered by the blanking plate. The dark grey cable runs into the BT Master socket as pictured below. I'm assuming the lighter grey CAT5 cables are the other phone extension points from around the flat. The extension points I have are 2x Livingroom/1x Master bedroom/1x Single Bedroom/1x Hallway. The black cable at the top of the picture is the TV Aerial join.

Wires

This is the inside of the BT Master Socket.

Inside BT Master Socket

I want ideally to move the master socket to my single bedroom as that�s were my I have my office and my current ADSL router is setup. I also don't want to lose the use of any of the extension sockets either.

Anyone able to help me out with some advice?

Why would you want to move the master socket?

Firstly you could have the Infinity modem at the master socket and the router in your preferred location, with Cat5 between.

The master socket faceplate / extension wiring looks like a bodge job - 2 and 5 are a pair so should be the two orange / white with the blue on 3 for ring (unconventional use of colours, but split pairs a bigger issue).

Wires at the back of the master are incoming line, one of the pairs will be connected at the back of the master socket (behind the bit you didn't unscrew). Does the cable that connects to the faceplate (the grey one) go into the adjacent double socket thing ?

In reply to a post by qasdfdsaq:

Why would you want to move the master socket?

It's in my fuse cupboard by my front door. All of my computers and current router are in the single bedroom I use as my study. The current router connects to an extension phone point in there.

I don't have a power socket in the fuse cupboard to run the modem and I don't want to run CAT5 cable around four door frames in my hall to my study.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

Firstly you could have the Infinity modem at the master socket and the router in your preferred location, with Cat5 between.

The master socket faceplate / extension wiring looks like a bodge job - 2 and 5 are a pair so should be the two orange / white with the blue on 3 for ring (unconventional use of colours, but split pairs a bigger issue).

Wires at the back of the master are incoming line, one of the pairs will be connected at the back of the master socket (behind the bit you didn't unscrew). Does the cable that connects to the faceplate (the grey one) go into the adjacent double socket thing ?

I don't have a power socket in the fuse cupboard to run the modem and I don't really want to run CAT5 cable around four door frames in my hall to my study.

I had a feeling it was a bit of a bodge job. Yes the grey cable from the BT Master socket goes into the double socket above and is twisted together with the other wires.

Pic here - Wires in Double Socket Behind Blanking Plate

I have attempted to get Infinity installed once before last year. However when the Openreach engineer attempted the install I was told it wasn't possible to relocate the master socket to the room I use as an office where I wanted infinity installed. Instead he told me the only option I had was to run a massive extension from the hall cupboard to my study around the door frames which isn't an option. I'm not sure though if he looked at all the wiring.

This lead to a botched migration and I had to re-order my ADSL service from O2 as they couldn't undo my proposed migration to BT and I was without service for about a week.......something I don't want to repeat.

Any ideas how I could go about getting this looked at and if put right without spending a fortune? Do you think it�s possible to move the master socket to where I need it?

Thanks for replying.

The internal wiring you show a picture of behind the blanking plate, ...... what a pile of do-do.

I'd be sure you could squeeze a fair bit more from your existing ADSL service just by sorting that ka-ka out.

The (to be frowned on, but it works) method, would be to push the incoming pair to the existing extension socket, where required, bypassing the current NTE. Then 'back end' a pair ( send a pair back through the same cable, it'll be OK, it's cat 5) to liven up the other extensions.

What you need is an engineer with a Scooby-Do.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The internal wiring you show a picture of behind the blanking plate, ...... what a pile of do-do.

I'd be sure you could squeeze a fair bit more from your existing ADSL service just by sorting that ka-ka out.

The (to be frowned on, but it works) method, would be to push the incoming pair to the existing extension socket, where required, bypassing the current NTE. Then 'back end' a pair ( send a pair back through the same cable, it'll be OK, it's cat 5) to liven up the other extensions.

What you need is an engineer with a Scooby-Do.

Surely that master wasn't put there by Openreach ? Mains power in close proximity do not bode well for ADSL in particular ADSL2+ , I would have relocated it, Via Openreach or myself , All i would need a a couple of gel crimps a run of the same spec solid copper twisted pair cable ,3 pairs it think openreach use , and some cable clips to secure to the wall outside

Not sure why you need to run a Cat 5 cable if they are already in the wall ? But anyway...

Like Zarjaz says there's enough wires there to do what you want, it's a matter of persuasion or ingenuity on the part of the engineer.

Why not be a cowboy - just like the ones who wired the phone extensions! All you need to do it cut into a cable from teh CU, tape on an extra cable, connect a socket at the end and there you have it!. YES - I AM ONLY JOKING but that install is a real mess.

Why not get a power socket installed there and fit the modem. Then use one of the Cat5e cables to feed the WAN output to the hub?

Given the option of running 1 Ethernet cable or 4-5 phone cables, I know which one I'd pick...

The Ethernet cable can be used to supply power. There's no need for a power socket in the cupboard.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-May-12 00:35:29)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

Getting the kit to do this is adding to the costs, and certainly on the install day I doubt the Openreach engineer will have heard of PoE

Hoaving a power socket installed in the fuse cupboard should be a realtively inexpenseive job...

To elaborate:

Install a power point in the fuse cupboard. The power is right there so would be a simple job.

It looks like you have CAT5 wiring in the flat already This could be re-terminated with RJ45 connectors for the run from there to your study.

Unless you need the other extensions, undo the rest of that mess.

Have BT install infinity in the fuse cupboard and connect through to your study via the newly terminated CAT5.

No new cables to be run in the flat, just a repurpose of the existing ones

Cost is less than £3, so pretty much negligible. Probably cheaper than installing a power socket to be honest. This is my setup, and IMO the white cabling actually looks quite good with the modem.

All the Openreach engineers I've had (which admittedly is only 3) have been pretty highly knowledgeable IMO, and know their way around technology pretty well. Miles ahead of the usual VM faff we get around here.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-May-12 13:00:30)

In reply to a post by ionic:

To elaborate:

Install a power point in the fuse cupboard. The power is right there so would be a simple job.

It looks like you have CAT5 wiring in the flat already This could be re-terminated with RJ45 connectors for the run from there to your study.

Unless you need the other extensions, undo the rest of that mess.

Have BT install infinity in the fuse cupboard and connect through to your study via the newly terminated CAT5.

No new cables to be run in the flat, just a repurpose of the existing ones

A good idea ... where did it come from?

Thanks for all the replies and great advice. The problem I have is that I'm disabled and a wheelchair user and can't physically do the work myself.

Who should I be looking at to get in to sort this total mess out?

You need an electrician to install a socket - an easy task. In my area there is a scheme to help the disabled and elderly where the costs are relatively low - is there one in your area?

As for the network cables/phone, you need a friend with an IDC tool and someone here can almost talk them through it with step by step instructions.

In reply to a post by ionic:

To elaborate:

Install a power point in the fuse cupboard. The power is right there so would be a simple job.

It looks like you have CAT5 wiring in the flat already This could be re-terminated with RJ45 connectors for the run from there to your study.

Unless you need the other extensions, undo the rest of that mess.

Have BT install infinity in the fuse cupboard and connect through to your study via the newly terminated CAT5.

No new cables to be run in the flat, just a repurpose of the existing ones

I need all the phone extensions in place as I have a multifunction printer, community alarm and a DECT phone base unit plugged in to various different extensions across the flat.

In reply to a post by MHC:

You need an electrician to install a socket - an easy task. In my area there is a scheme to help the disabled and elderly where the costs are relatively low - is there one in your area?

As for the network cables/phone, you need a friend with an IDC tool and someone here can almost talk them through it with step by step instructions.

The electrician is no problem. Is it going to be a big job or is it simply a case of changing out and punching down some existing cables at the fuse cupboard end?

Sort out the Cat5 cables and provide and RJ45 socket at the other end is a 20 to 30 minute task for someone who knows what they are doing or an hour if they need coaching.

Remove all Cat5e cables, get a twin gang Euromodule faceplate with a single RJ45 socket and punch down to that. At the other end fit an RJ45 faceplate and punch down cable to that ...

In reply to a post by MHC:

Sort out the Cat5 cables and provide and RJ45 socket at the other end is a 20 to 30 minute task for someone who knows what they are doing or an hour if they need coaching.

Remove all Cat5e cables, get a twin gang Euromodule faceplate with a single RJ45 socket and punch down to that. At the other end fit an RJ45 faceplate and punch down cable to that ...

Okay. The phone extension socket in my study that would be converted to a RJ45 point feeding back to my fuse cupboard currently has my ADSL router and my HP MFP Printer plugged in for Fax. Once the socket is converted to an RJ45 point will I lose the fax?

In reply to a post by Valo:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Sort out the Cat5 cables and provide and RJ45 socket at the other end is a 20 to 30 minute task for someone who knows what they are doing or an hour if they need coaching.

Remove all Cat5e cables, get a twin gang Euromodule faceplate with a single RJ45 socket and punch down to that. At the other end fit an RJ45 faceplate and punch down cable to that ...

Okay. The phone extension socket in my study that would be converted to a RJ45 point feeding back to my fuse cupboard currently has my ADSL router and my HP MFP Printer plugged in for Fax. Once the socket is converted to an RJ45 point will I lose the fax?

Yes you would - if all four pairs were used for the Ethernet connection. But, as the Infinity service is 80Mbps, and modem 100Mbps, it could be wired using 2 pairs only to provide a 100Mbps link and another pair use for telephony.

Heh sorry! Didnt see your reply first!

With a little more work that can be achieved. You can even safely put 100meg ethernet and phone down one piece of cat5 by using one of the spare pairs for the phone signal

And it looks like I copied ypu again, sorry!

As ever with ebay, no spec, i.e. which poe standard, power rating etc

All relevant information is listed there clear as day.

It's passive. It clearly states the standard is passive

The only spec that matters for passive is connector size. It specifically shows the connector size and states it in mm.

Power rating is limited by what you connect to it, not the adapter.

Edited by deleted (Sat 26-May-12 03:57:30)

And the current abd voltage ratingng of the cable. And whether you want to repurpose other pairs for telephiny as well.

The listing explicitly lists every PoE standard whch is implemented by said product

The cable is what you connect to it.

You can't use other pairs for telephony. The adapter only works with ethernet.

Hello Valo,

I thought I'd just post this link to a website where the guy did exactly what you want when he had VDSL2 installed, and how you connect your exhisting CAT 5E cables to the new faceplate in the top left corner.

http://phil.lavin.me.uk/2012/02/bts-uk-fttc-vdsl2-ex...