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As part of a new project, we've gone for BT Business Broadband on what was a standard consumer broadband service.
I know that this change has "taken place", because the service went down last night, and after a couple of hours wrangling with BT they advised us of updated username & password to put into the modem.
however
I note that there has been no change in the uplink/downlink speeds.
the reason that we changed was to get a better uplink. I believe that consumer uplinks are 448kbps and business uplinks are set to 880kbps or something? I wasnt expecting to get 880 but I was expecting better than the 300kbps we were getting before.
I was expeccting the modem status page to tell me different things about the connection (on the standard service before, it said "Connected. Downstream 4000kbps Upstream 448kbps. these look too neat for real values, so I guessed that it was the theoretical maxima. I expected them to change to "8000 downstream 832 upstream")
here are the
stats from my modemrouter
Ill phone BT in the morning.
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4000Kbps is a bit slow for 43dB attenuation, I can manage 6.5 to 7 Meg, so check at the test socket whether things improve.
As for whether speeds will be better, not pretty sure that BT Business services on exchanges that dont have ADSL2+ do not actually make use of the Max Premium extra upstream speed.
Why did you think the downstream speed would double to 8000?
Andrew
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Your downstream will stay the same, but your upstream should change to 832 (or near) looking at those stats you are still on a residential connection.
Is there no ADSL2+ at your exchange?
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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A good number of the business products on BT Retail services were just the consumer product with different support and VAT added to compensate for the extra billing work
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Your downstream will stay the same, but your upstream should change to 832 (or near) looking at those stats you are still on a residential connection.
Is there no ADSL2+ at your exchange?
Why?
ADSL Max - G.DMT with BT Business is only 448k upstream.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Would it be worth powering down the router leaving it 5 minutes and reestablishing a sync with the exchange?
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You may need to migrate to another ISP (say, Entanet) to get the faster upload.
Line One:- Zen - DrayTek Vigor 2600VG
Line Two:- EntaNet (Aquiss) - DrayTek Vigor 2600
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No ADSL2 at the exchange. I went for BT Business because they *assured* me that it would increase the uplink speed available to the line.
I assume this means that they reprogram the part of the DSLAM that my local drop is connected to, to allow it to negotiate up to 832kbps. (I thought they had said the downllink rate increases to 8000kbps but not too concerned about the download rate)
I had found out previously on this forum that on consumer broadband services the max uplink is 448, and sure enough my modem is telling me that I am "connected at 448kbps". Now of course I never get this in reality, the online speed testers tell me anything from 180k to 300k depending on time of day.
but the fact that the modem tells me "connected at 448k" made me think that this is the result of the handshaking that the modem does with the exchange, and its basically a text message from the DSLAM telling me what sort of connection I am actually paying for.
in migrating to business broadband, a local openreach tech advised me that some unseen department would dial in to the DSLAM and tweak it so that my little part of it would change to a business connection. Now Im not expecting anything amazing but I was expecting the connection information at the modem to change.
I spoke to 3 different UK operators on the "business broadband" team at BT and they all assured me that the uplink would increase. I made sure they knew exactly where I was and what my local excchange was.
Im afraid I wont be surprised to find out that they were all wrong, and in fact our local excchange can only do max uplinks of 448.
how do you know if you have ADSL2+ at the exchange?
our dslam looks like this. Is it ADSL2?
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The business packages with BT retail are a lot of the time just the same as the consumer packages just you pay more VAT usually.
The reps that sold you it are probably confused as many exchanges offer ADSL2+ which would be faster, but yours has not had the upgrade yet. The way they suggested 8 Meg too, tells us that they know a lot less than the posters around here
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The way they suggested 8 Meg too, tells us that they know a lot less than the posters around here They could have said "Up to 8 Meg" as is usual for ADSL Max and it was taken as "8 meg", a common misconception. Only last month the OP was asking the true nature of DSL
I thought ADSL Max Premium has a max upload of 832K. If not, I may have been instrumental in misleading OP 
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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I'm well aware of the "up to X Mbits" caveat, for sure and I wasnt expecting to get 832k, but I WAS expecting *something* to change in the modem link status. it does not appear to have done.
looking at the link stats, I think I could reasonably expect actual uplink to improve if the 448kbps was upped. I seem to be getting very close to my theoretical maximum given the IP overhead, which indicates that the physical line is not limiting that -yet!
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It's not easy getting/finding info on BT's 832 upload packages 
Here's a previous TBB thread I remember well and may be worth a read:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/3613285-c...
It seems "BT Business Broadband Network" is the package you require.
As others have said, I think you may be better going with a provider that knows more about 'business broadband'!
I'm a happy Freeola (via Entanet) customer and they clearly layout their business package offering: http://freeola.com/business-broadband/ including mentioning "improved upload speeds".
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At the wholesale level it costs £5+VAT more per month for Max Premium so at retail usually equates to £10 to £20 extra.
That will let original poster judge whether the package they chose might even be in the price range.
Providers are not meant to use up to technical maximum speed of service now, they should be quoting the ASA/CAP type figures, or a personalised estimate.
BT Business is really just BT Residential but with better invoicing that makes it more suited to SME that just want an internet connection that does nothing special.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Max Premium - as it was, now Broadband Network does have an 832 upstream but getting a BT says rep that knows of it can be a challenge!
The last time I saw the price it was around £58/month +VAT
From the original post, all that they ordered was a Business ADSL Max connection and not the Premium/Network variant.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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thanks all for very informative information.
is there a user manual for our exchange's DSLAM? presumably if I knew how to fiddle with the dslam properly I could just go into the exchange, console into the dslam and reprogram my line for the 832 up...?
I could just go into the exchange as well, because I notice early this morning that the door is blowing open again.
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Call that 0800 number or just let me know the exchange name in email and will pass on
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The OP said they had been told that the business service he was looking at had a faster upload, well ADSL Max is 448k and anything faster than that would be Max Premium and that is 832k
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The OP had asked to go to the business product as it had a faster upload, so from what the OP has said he was asking for Max Premium unless the res service has a tweak that I do not know about to take it past the 448k mark!
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Post deleted by MrSaffron
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I think I could reasonably expect actual uplink to improve if the 448kbps was upped. What is you basis for saying that, if you don't expect to get 832K? Most users on the ADSL Max packages have uploads at or near their max, cuz that's how they are defined and they don't exercise the line greatly. I seem to be getting very close to my theoretical maximum given the IP overhead, which indicates that the physical line is not limiting that -yet! ''Yet' doesn't apply. The physical line doesn't limit the upload; it's BT's spec. of ADSL Max packages that does.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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XRaySpex - I thought I could reasonably expect actual uplink to increase if the 448kbps limit was upped because:
Im currently on a "448kbps connection" and getting practical IP speeds of 300kbps. As I understood, taking into account protocol overheads, and line physics, a deficit of 148kbps seems like a very reasonable "loss". If my practical IP uplink was 100kbps or less then I would be thinking the link is limited by the line physics (and so would not increase even if the DSLAM was reprogrammed)
Am I even correct in thinking that the "448kbps" connection which my modem is reporting is as a result of the programming of the DSLAM? this is a complete stab in the dark on my part.
it just seems like too neat of a figure to come from anything but a manual setting in a piece of firmware. everyone else's modem in the village reports EXACTLY the same connection figures: 4960 down & 448 up. but of course the speedtestuk.net results are all a bit different.
Ive just talked to Plusnet sales and she assures me 110% that they can offer me "uncapped" uplink of (up to) 832kbps, using the equipment presently at my exchange.
She also assured me that plusnet do not have any equipment of their own anywhere, that they use hardware provided by BT Openreach.
so, she must have had exactly the same database that BT Retail had (from openreach).....
Its extremely confusing, isnt it?
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The physical line doesn't limit the upload; it's BT's spec. of ADSL Max packages that does.
OK, that's interesting.... as you can see from my prev post, I was indeed under the impression that the physical line could limit my uplink
in fact, I am still under that impression.
could you expand on what you mean by that? I *think* I know what you mean but please could you spell it out for me?
I thought i understood (from Shannons law) that the channel has a finite bandwidth (and hence data rate) and the "beauty" of ADSL was that it splts said bandwidth unevenly (asymmetrically) to give subscribers artificially increased downlink at the expense of uplink. because thats how most subscribers use it.
are you then saying that it's the BT spec (and therefore a programming artifice) that sets the split, within the limits of the physical channel?
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448Kbps is an artificial limit set by the product not the technology
The limit of a line is defined by the bit loading in the frequency bins allocated to the upstream, which as it is lower frequencies holds up better to the effects of attenuation, hence why almost all lines that use IPStream Max have 448 Kbps upstream if there is no fault.
Max Premium which is the name of 832 Kbps upload product, allows upstream to run closer to the ADSL maximum but due to the way upstream works, the vast majority get 832Kbps when switched to that PRODUCT.
You have NOT been switched to Max Premium, simple.
Plusnet use the BT Wholesale hardware, the same as BT Retail do, but they are better at actually ordering what the customer wants. Your problem is NOT technical at all, just a case of poorly trained sales staff and possibly your own knowledge confusing them.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I know that, try finding info about Max Premium on the BT Total Business products, it is all 21CN/ADSL2+ based now.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I've already spelt it out for you here.
Forget the physics, it's nowt to do with them; it's purely down to Standards and Product Specs. They divide the physical spectrum into defined ranges that all kit can understand.
Please stop trying to draw fallacious unwarranted conclusions from the facts you are presented with.
Your issue is solely whether you are able to buy from someone 1 of 2 products, ADSL Max or ADSL Max Premium, regardless of your physical line.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 08-Nov-12 16:15:58)
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(and therefore a programming artifice) Deplorable! It's neither programming nor an artifice.
Have you the faintest idea what Standards are and why we need them?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Ive just talked to Plusnet sales and she assures me 110% that they can offer me "uncapped" uplink of (up to) 832kbps, using the equipment presently at my exchange.
She also assured me that plusnet do not have any equipment of their own anywhere, that they use hardware provided by BT Openreach.
so, she must have had exactly the same database that BT Retail had (from openreach)..... All true. But as has been explained, the "BT Business Broadband" you have been mis-sold, (probably due to confusd sales staff as has been suggested), is still ADSL Max, not ADSL Max Premium. It is Max Premium that Plusnet are offering. Its extremely confusing, isnt it? Only at first. All you have to understand is that there are two preset upstream (maximum) connection speeds, 448kbps and 832kbps. ADSL Max has the 448 setting, and ADSL Max Premium has the 832.
The BT Business Broadband you have just moved to is not Max Premium.
On nearly all lines, as has been explained, it is almost unheard of for the upstream connection speed not to be at the preset limit. Your line is medium length and will easily hit the 832 if you are put onto Max Premium.
The 4000kbps downstream is not fixed. I very much doubt that you always get the same. The speeds can look precise, because on ADSL Max and Max Premium the downstream is always a multiple of 32. The downstream is also subject to the "old type" IP Profiling, which limits the true download speed. Most of the limiting in fact covers the overheads of ATM and TCP/IP protocols, (envelopes), that have been mentioned.
BT may claim you have started a new 12-month contract. However it doesn't do what you were promised. I suggest you demand release without penalty, and ask for a MAC. Move to Plusnet or vivaciti, and make sure it is an ADSL Max Premium product you are put on.
As has also been said, your 4000kbps downstream connection is poor. Have a read of the relevant pages in my Troubleshooting section. The ring/bell wire is a good place to start. Do not do more than 5-6 reconnections in an hour, and for best speed always connect during daylight hours.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.5/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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just tell me this -
where does my modem get this information from?
yes of course I understand the need for standards for interconnecting systems. please pardon my curiosity. I am not away to start a revolution from this, just attempting to understand something that I clearly do not yet.
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RobertoS, our posts crossed. I think your post answers my question, and I think I am justified in saying that the 448 or 832 uplink speeds are indeed "artifices of programming". They may well be standards (as indeeed they are). Xrayspecs, Im interested as to why it is deplorable of me to state this? it looks like I am correct about that - theres nothing physically or mathematically magical about 448 or 832, other than they are sensible/practical ways for the hardware to chop up a spectrum to achieve a certain end?
if "they" (the dslam manufacturers? BT?) had chosen to put 333kbps or 999kbps in those fields, then my modem would be reporting those figures, no?
Please take this in an inquisitive spirit. I am not trying to p1ss anyone off here;
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It is arrived at by negotiation between the modem and the exchange hardware. You can estimate the likely speeds if you know the attenuation of the line.
The 448 Kbps upload is a product limit, so modem if allowed would go faster, but the Max product has it limited to 448 Kbps, Max Premium 832 Kbps.
ADSL as a standard can go faster up to 1100 Kbps, just that BT Wholesale never released an ADSL product without any limits for the upstream.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I very much doubt that you always get the same.
Absolutely right. My apologies for this bad assumption. I have just noticed that I am getting 4960 down and in my originally posted stats the modem is reporting 4000.
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The 448 and 832 are nothing to do with the DSLAM manufacturer and ALL to do with how BT Wholesale decides to manage the DSLAM.
BT Wholesale sets an upper limit for the upstream sync and in the ten seconds of negotiation when you start your ADSL modem, it negotiates the back and forth to decide if this is possible or whether a lower speed needs to be used.
In short your modem sends some data to the exchange, exchange talks back and says we saw that at quality level xyz and this goes on for a few seconds until both ends are happy they can talk successfully.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Deleted at posters request
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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