Noisy Line , but clear line test ...Advice needed

Hi there , our ISP are BE . And our phone company are Axis . There is what sounds like electric interference / wind on the line and the internet is constantly dropping . This happens for 3 or 4 days then it will be fine for the next 3 or 4 days. When ever it happens I phone axis and the line test always comes back clear , despite me being able to hear the interference..

I just came off the phone from axis , and they said they couldn't hear nothing on the line and the line test was clear . They said they could arrange for an engineer to come out from open reach but if the line was clear when they got there and no fault was found i would be charged £160 .

Now whats worrying is that for 3 or 4 days the line will be clear and the internet won't drop , so if the engineer comes on this day will we really be charged £160 or will they get to the bottom of the problem?

And would it be worth contacting BE ? would there be anything they could do ?

Any advice would be great , thanks

Be will do nothing unless this is affecting the broadband

Have you used the 17070 and quiet line test facility when all the ADSL kit is unplugged to show there is noise.

Might be worth trying to keep a track of noise versus when it rains, as could be damp causing an issue.

It is effecting the broadband as it's constantly dropping when the noise is there . Its happening now and its a bit windy outside but nothing major and quite warm. I have unplugged everything and just plugged the phone in the test socket but it's still there , yet axis say the line test is not showing anything.

thanks for your reply btw

I assume that you are on an overhead line to a pole. If so have you taken a look at that line? Tree branches may have grown sufficiently to hit the line as the wind blows.

In reply to a post by ellisn999:

It is effecting the broadband as it's constantly dropping when the noise is there . Its happening now and its a bit windy outside but nothing major and quite warm. I have unplugged everything and just plugged the phone in the test socket but it's still there , yet axis say the line test is not showing anything.

thanks for your reply btw

The standard remote line test's will often fail to show line faults, and never show interference for instance, Because you are able to hear audible noise the isp will tell you to take it up with you telephony provider and report a fault to them, or offer to ramp up the target snr margins (change the line profile) in a bid to mask the problem , but your sync speed will see a decrease as a result,
As for charges from BT Openreach , if an engineer visits your phone the engineer is unable to find any fault or even hear this noise, he will conclude the line was "Right when tested" and your Telephone provider will be billed by Openreach if they pass this fee on or not is up to them, for a PSTN Fault the charge was £130.00 last year i'm not aware that it as since been increased , So it can be a case of put up with it, or take a chance , Ask you telephony provider if they will run the newer BT line test C.I.D.T Copper Intergrated Demand Testing BTW It would be pointless asking BE to do this as they don't use that test, apparently (according to their support staff)

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 26-Apr-13 19:29:40)

We live on the ground floor of a 8 story flat so I presume the wires run underground into a box in the main part of the flat somewhere . Not sure tbh

I managed to convince BT many years back that there was a fault on my line, probably in the exchange equipment; by recording it on a micro-cassette recorder, then playing it back to the BT Area Manager.

Moved in three days to a different set of exchange equipment; and a different phone number - the latter being a story in itself!

would there be any more modern way of recording noise on the line its been on and off now since yesterday afternoon . Its beyond a joke

But the issue with your line will be an HR fault, so a change of PSTN equipment as described won't clear the fault.

Since the issue is affecting your broadband, then it is down to your broadband service provider to get it resolved.

Ring BE, don't mention the noise on the line, just insist they send an SFI out. If you are plugged in at the NTE test jack, then there should be no issue with charges.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But the issue with your line will be an HR fault, so a change of PSTN equipment as described won't clear the fault.

Ring BE, don't mention the noise on the line, just insist they send an SFI out. If you are plugged in at the NTE test jack, then there should be no issue with charges.

Which they won't do unless they can satisfy their selves that there is strong evidence of a line fault,
First they will want to delay things by insisting on performing 24 or 48 hrs monitoring at the default profile ,or with higher target noise margins
Then they will want to send out an new modem /router (regardless if you have tried several routers already) then another 24/48hrs monitoring , before they will entertain the possibilty of involving BT openreach, this is their standard routine , Of course they would rarther a customer report it as a PSTN fault regardless of if they are the telephony provider or not, as the potential engineer costs are lower, i supose if the customer also has the phone service with them, they may not be as reluctant on involving Openreach

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 27-Apr-13 01:56:57)

You may be able to achieve it by using the Base Unit from a "Cordless Phone Set"

The Base Unit is Corded and many have Answering Machines built-in.

Most Answering Machines can record "live" calls, so if you hear noise, simply press the RECORD Button. Remember to warn the other person.

Alternatively, look for a stand-alone Answering Machine - getting rare nowadays.

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Either way, remember to record at least 1 QUIET Call also, to give a comparison.

The BT Quiet Line Check on 17070 Selection 2, should also be included, under both situations when the Line is quiet and more-so when you have found it to be noisy.

Almost all modern equipment (including answering machines and cordless sets) is digital and has noise reduction built in.
That is why quiet line tests should use an old analog phone.
You might find it quite difficult to record the noise.

Which they won't do unless they can satisfy their selves that there is strong evidence of a line fault,
First they will want to delay things by insisting on performing 24 or 48 hrs monitoring at the default profile ,or with higher target noise margins
Then they will want to send out an new modem /router (regardless if you have tried several routers already) then another 24/48hrs monitoring , before they will entertain the possibilty of involving BT openreach, this is their standard routine , Of course they would rarther a customer report it as a PSTN fault regardless of if they are the telephony provider or not, as the potential engineer costs are lower, i supose if the customer also has the phone service with them, they may not be as reluctant on involving Openreach

I completely agree, have seen this many times, what the solution is then, I don't know.
Odd that an ISP with a 'good' reputation, should deny good service to it's punters by being so penny pinching.

That's unfortunately how 02/Telefonica UK work as far as fixed line broadband is concerned, But they are not alone there are other suppliers who will attempt the same approach, They would rather mask an underlying fault until it becomes so bad it can't be hidden any longer and the masking can work to the isp's advantage also Like the HR fault that i had years ago, intermittent noise, frequent disconnects ,and interaction with pstn (incoming calls) Isp advised me to report it as a PTSN fault,(Because i had told them i could sometimes hear crackling, and it disconnected when they rang me) BT retail told me that no fault was showing after running the virtually useless remote test, I didn't want to run the risk of a £130 charge and still have the hr fault , fortunately for me the line died completely,

But they are not alone there are other suppliers who will attempt the same approach,

Oh yes, fully aware of that.

I acknowledge those aspects, Stephen - so can you suggest a simple solution, with equipment that is readily available in today's domestic premises?

I wonder how many are in the position today, to do such tests with analogue equipment, ancient or modern?

That is, phones with carbon microphones and electro-magnetic ear-pieces, directly driven by the line signals, REN 1 etc.

Then there would be the physical connection problems.

Keeping in mind that the noise described is intermittent.

I'm afraid I can't suggest a good solution; I was just pointing out that the recording machine solution might not be valid.

I think it is still quite easy to pick up old analog phones with standard BT phone connections; but probably wouldn't help.
I don't know what you would expect to hear if you connected a phone plug to a standard 35mm audio plug to a recording device such as an MP3 player/recorder or computer.
That might be able to record the whole time, whether the telephone was in use or not, and (with care) should avoid any noise suppression that would invalidate things.

Afternoon Stephen

As Telephone Answering Machines are already designed and matched to the specific purpose of normally recording "speech" coming in on the line, they should also record any "noise" in the audio spectrum, because at that point, "speech" and "noise" are simply electrical signals on the phone line.

It is the human auditory system etc that subsequently concludes that one part is (hopefully) intelligible speech; and the other is noise.

The "noise cancellation" within any amplifier/recorder is generally with regard to noise sources within that device itself, whether the techniques employed are digital or analogue. In effect to avoid adding more noise.

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With regard to MP3 Player/Recorder etc, assuming the line signal level etc are appropriate, the MP3 Recorder should record any line noise and speech, dial tones, CLI etc, in the same manner as the Answering Machine - but with more palaver to set up, uncertainty as to the quality of the joints etc.

By definition the MP3 Recorder is simply a recorder, just as the recording side of an Answering Machine is.

Post deleted by MrSaffron