Trying to plug my router into an extension!

Please can anyone help as TalkTalk don't seem to be able to resolve my problem. I have unbearably slow internet (.08mbps) and it's very unstable (dropping out every 10 mins). Talk Talk have sent me a new router but the problem persists. For instance, it took me over an hour to upload these pictures to TinyPic!

I do have quite a complicated set up in the house.
It's quite a large 3 storey house and what I think is the master socket is at the very top in the roof space! I would therefore like to locate the router more centrally in the house but it doesn't work on any of my extensions. I do have a BT ADSL v1.0 faceplate on the master socket so I haven't been using an ADSL filter on the master socket.
I recently bought a replacement NTE5 faceplate with A B terminals (on someone's recommendation) but am unsure how to wire this correctly.

I've tried to take some pictures to show what i'm faced with (apologies for quality but it is in the loft!!) This is the set up:

Pic 1 shows two sockets, the bottom one is what I think is the master socket with the BT adsl faceplate. I'm not sure what the upper socket does, but lots of wires lead into it from the lower socket.

Pic 2 is a close up of the master socket.

Pic 3: Just for the purposes of showing what is there, I removed the inside cover and this is what comes into the lower socket. Attached to this is the inside cover and then the adsl faceplate goes onto that. You can just make out the back of the ADSL faceplate underneath the inside cover in Pic 4

Pic 5 shows what is behind the faceplate of the upper socket and again, just to show what's there, I removed the inside cover of this socket and Pic 6 shows what wires come into the upper socket and Pic 7 shows what some of those wires are attached to on the inside cover.

Please does anyone have any idea how I could sort out this jumble to enable me to locate my router more centrally?

Just to complicate things, I also have an odd little box in my bedroom which looks like this when opened up!
Pic 8.

As you can tell, I'm no expert but have moved wires around before (e.g. disconnected the bell wire) and have the proper wiring tool!


Thanks very much in advance for any help.

Looks like the top NTE5 has a separate phone number on it from a second line.

Your current setup is ideal for ADSL, what are you trying to do ?

If you have slow internet when at the master socket and the ADSL v1.0 faceplate is disconnected so that you are using the test socket for the ADSL modem and none of of the other phone sockets work in the property (that are the same telephone number) then you probably have just a very long line and not much you can do.

i.e. we need to see the connection speed, attenuation and noise margin figures from the router http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc can give you an estimate of how good/bad/indifferent the figures are.

From the quick glimpse, you appear to have the incoming line (black cable) going to A/B on the back of the NTE5, which is good. Then all the exfensions (and maybe the top socket) are wired from the back of the faceplate.

That would make sense as the previous owner had a home office on the top floor with separate business line.
All I'm trying to so is be able to use my router from one of the many extensions scattered around the house, rather than it being tied to the master socket I the loft.
At the mo, that doesn't work.

why ? performance can't be better.

Just replace the filtered faceplate with a standard one (from the socket above, perhaps), missing off the ring wire, and you'll get what you want.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

i.e. we need to see the connection speed, attenuation and noise margin figures from the router http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc can give you an estimate of how good/bad/indifferent the figures are.

Does this help?

ADSL (Sync) Summary
System uptime: 2:48:37
Modem ADSL (Sync) uptime: 1:45:32
Interleaving: On
ADSL mode: G.DMT
ADSL settings: PVC:0/38
ADSL line speed (kbps): up 448 down 1120
Line attentuation (dB): up 31.5 down 63.5
SN margin (dB): up 15.0 down 15.5
Total errors seconds: 1
Red - Error Green - Connected and ready
Amber - Connecting, please wait

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

From the quick glimpse, you appear to have the incoming line (black cable) going to A/B on the back of the NTE5, which is good. Then all the exfensions (and maybe the top socket) are wired from the back of the faceplate.

from a longer glimpse the top socket is on the other green/black A/B pair coming in from outside, its faceplate has a separate phone number sticker on it.

do not connect this to an extension under any circumstances, if that's what you get from a filtered faceplate or from the master test socket direct.

ADSL line speed (kbps): up 448 down 1120
Line attentuation (dB): up 31.5 down 63.5
SN margin (dB): up 15.0 down 15.5

In reply to a post by yarwell:

why ? performance can't be better.

Just replace the filtered faceplate with a standard one (from the socket above, perhaps), missing off the ring wire, and you'll get what you want.

Ah, I see (I think)! I will try that.
So am I wrong in presuming the closer you are to your router, the better your wireless performance?

Thank you for help.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

do not connect this to an extension under any circumstances, if that's what you get from a filtered faceplate or from the master test socket direct.

ADSL line speed (kbps): up 448 down 1120
Line attentuation (dB): up 31.5 down 63.5
SN margin (dB): up 15.0 down 15.5

Sorry, I misled you. I was working wirelessly at the time! I've now plugged into the router via ehternet and plugger the router into the test socket on the master socket and hereare my results:
Your Estimated connection speed using ADSL mode (maximum 8 Mbps)
Good
Normal speed range at 63.5dB attenuation is 300Kbps to 2033Kbps
Target Margin Estimate
9dB 1483
6dB 1645
3dB 1825

So not as bad as before??!!

wireless doesn't matter.

Your router stats show us that your line is long and that you have a high SNR margin which further depresses your speed. It suggests previous instability

the numbers we need to see from the test socket are these :-
ADSL line speed (kbps): up 448 down 1120
Line attentuation (dB): up 31.5 down 63.5
SN margin (dB): up 15.0 down 15.5

Do not rewire this to use it on an extension

On wireless performance yes closer is better but for best adsl signal you want in runng off the master socket.

What speeds do you get when using ethernet to the router?

This is what I get when my laptop is plugged into the router via ethernet and the router directly into the test socket:
ADSL line speed (kbps): up 448 down 1120
Line attentuation (dB): up 31.5 down 63.5
SN margin (dB): up 15.0 down 15.5

As this seems quite good I will leave the router (and phone) plugged into the test socket like this:
Photo 1

And I've pinched the non-filtered faceplate from the top socket (as suggested by Phil) and hooked it up like this:
Photo 2

I'm not sure this is a permanent solution but not sure what else to do.

Thank you.

In reply to a post by tamwinsle:

I do have a BT ADSL v1.0 faceplate on the master socket so I haven't been using an ADSL filter on the master socket.
I recently bought a replacement NTE5 faceplate with A B terminals (on someone's recommendation) but am unsure how to wire this correctly.

I would imagine that sending the raw unfiltered ADSL signal to another area of the house over CAT5 from the A&B terminals on the back of the filtered faceplate to a dedicated ADSL socket may have been the basis of the recommendation. A filtered voice extension could still be connected to the terminals on the back of the filtered faceplate also. This would possibly allow the router to be located in a better location and the voice extension routing could remain the same.

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 17-Aug-13 21:10:30)

Those stats will be the same no matter whether you use ethernet or wireless because they are stats from the adsl line.

What speeds do speedtests show eg http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html post the results link at the end of the test

Do you have a dialling tone on top socket?

If so, what is this circuit identified as when you dial 1470 17070? Is it your phone #?

if not, maybe the house extensions are joined to this master and so there is no BB on them as the BB is on you other master's #.

In reply to a post by tamwinsle:

Normal speed range at 63.5dB attenuation is 300Kbps to 2033Kbps
Target Margin Estimate
9dB 1483
6dB 1645
3dB 1825

That's not much use to you as your attenuation is most likely much higher than 63.5dB as this figure is the max most routers show when actual attenuation is > 63.5dB.

What's not as bad as before? Those were only calculated estimates.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

What speeds do speedtests show eg http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html post the results link at the end of the test

Here's a linkto my results.

So slow compared to the connection speed the router has. Was this using wireless or Ethernet cable?

The 0.1 Mbps looks almost like a limit, if this machine is Windows XP have you optimised the RWIN in the past and its not set at a far too low value

Wander over to http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks which can test and advise on whether RWIN may be the issue

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

So slow compared to the connection speed the router has. Was this using wireless or Ethernet cable?

The 0.1 Mbps looks almost like a limit, if this machine is Windows XP have you optimised the RWIN in the past and its not set at a far too low value

Wander over to http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks which can test and advise on whether RWIN may be the issue

I had the machine plugged in via ethernet and it runs Windows 7. I couldn't run that other test on that machine as it's a work laptop so won't let me install Java!!

I've now fired up another laptop (this one runs Vista so again I can't run the RWIN test) and I ran the speed test again, this time wirelessly because for some reason it wouldn't work via ethernet and I still get very poor results

I do live quite remotely so I can imagine that I'm at the end of a very long line, but still ... grrr!

I do appreciate your advice.