NTE5 and old master socket issue

Evening all,

I have a problem I hope someone can answer as I have been banging my head against the wall.
Now I hope it is not something simple as I will really kick myself.

I have a dropwire cable coming into the garage that enters an old junction box. See photo. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_BhRYYAMizjbGhIY2...

The dropwire has orange and white and black and green cables.
From the junction box an old cable has orange, green and blue cables running to a master socket. The master socket has numerous coloured cables terminating on the old master socket. See other photo.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_BhRYYAMizja0l1b2...

Am I correct in thinking this is a STAR wired system?
The problem I have is that this system works, I get slower broadband but I get a phone dial tone.
I decided to get a new nte5 master socket and new dropwire cable. I did this by buying a new junction box and connecting orange and white old dropwire cable to orange and white new dropwire cable.
I then connected up the new dropwire cable to A and B on the rear of NTE5 socket.
On connecting my router and telephone, broadband speed has increased by 5mbps but I have no telephone dial tone.
I have connected the phone directly into the BT NTE5 test socket with no dial tone as a result. Broadband is working fine. I have tried another phone and still no dial tone.
Do I have no telephone dial tone due to the old wiring being in a STAR configuration or am I being stupid.

Thanks for any help.
John

The 'correct' answer is that none of what you have replaced was yours to do so with ..... and to be fair you have provided ample evidence of why you shouldn't have done what you have.

That junction box is a shocker in terms of corroded terminals.

My first thoughts are that you have [censored] up the terminations in the junction box, any chance of another photo of your handiwork ?

Second thoughts, have you reterminated all those wires going away from the pictured socket ? (you may have put a loop fault on going away) Remove them all and have just the single pair feeding from the old junction box terminated on the A and B, does this get dial tone ?


Thought three, admit you have cocked up, ask your voice provider to send an Openreach engineer and then await the bill for repair.

Edited by Zarjaz (Sun 08-May-16 23:34:35)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The 'correct' answer is that none of what you have replaced was yours to do so with ..... and to be fair you have provided ample evidence of why you shouldn't have done what you have.

That junction box is a shocker in terms of corroded terminals.

My first thoughts are that you have [censored] up the terminations in the junction box, any chance of your handiwork ?

Second thoughts, have you reterminated all those wires going away from the pictured socket ? (you may have put a loop fault on going away) Remove them all and have just the single pair feeding from the old junction box terminated on the A and B, does this get dial tone ?


Thought three, admit you have cocked up, ask your voice provider to send an Openreach engineer and then await the bill for repair.

Hi I will upload a photo of the new junction box shortly. This is the junction box I am using:

http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_i...

All that is connected to it is orange and white (on individual terminals) from old drop wire and new orange and white from new drop wire (on individual terminals). The new drop wire goes straight nte5 and the orange and white terminate on A and B.

No other coloured cables are being used that were shown on the two photos I uploaded.

All I have tried to do is mirror what is coming into the property and terminate it on the rear of nte5.

Thanks

As has been pointed out in first reply you're playing with wiring that isn't yours - that's the provider's site of NTE5

Had you reported a line fault you'd have probably got OR to replace wiring and fit NTE5A - I had this done for free a few years ago

Hi,
I am fully aware I should not be replacing and messing around with BT owned property but as I cannot guarantee BT would put a new master socket where I wanted I am trying to sort it myself.
Also the current configuration is outdated with corroded cables slowing down b/b speed and possibly telephone signal I have attempted to do this.

At the end of the day I have asked for ideas of why I can get b/b and not a dial tone. I have followed numerous YouTube clips and I believe what I have done should work.

In reply to a post by god4aday:

At the end of the day I have asked for ideas of why I can get b/b and not a dial tone. I have followed numerous YouTube clips and I believe what I have done should work.

I suggest trying with just the two wires that give you the broadband, and having the others disconnected. The phone should then get a dial tone.

Hi,
There is only two wires connected, white and orange from drop wire. All the rest are not connected. The photos show the old setup which is a mess but does give me broadband and a dial tone. The new setup using old drop wire and new drop wire orange and white gives me broadband but not dial tone!

Regards
John

If the broadband is showing higher attenuation than before it means one of your new joints is not good or a wire is broken.

Broadband can survive on one wire as a radio signal, but the phone needs the voltage difference between two wires to be able to work.

Hi,
Thanks for the comment. I will re check my wires to ensure they are not damaged.

Regards
John

The fact you have broadband but no dialtone might indicate that one (of the two) wires is disconnected. Re-terminate both wires at both ends. And check your colour codes again, make sure you are definitely using the same two wires at both ends

Sounds like one of the new wires is not connected. I would re-push down all of the joints etc.

The box you have used is blatantly not BT supplied, as it will look brand spanking new, & BTs junction boxes have nothing inside now, they just use jelly crimps.

No one said you'd damaged them, what they said was that you had connected them poorly, or incorrectly.

Thanks ukhardy07, you were right, there was a loose wire (certainly didn't look loose) but now dial tone and broadband working fine.

Thanks for your help
John

Thanks ukhardy07, you were right, there was a loose wire (certainly didn't look loose) but now dial tone and broadband working fine.

My first thoughts are that you have [censored] up the terminations in the junction box, any chance of another photo of your handiwork ?

Don't mention it (?!?!) A day before ukhardy's post.

Krohn tool?

Edited by Deadbeat (Thu 12-May-16 09:39:03)

That would certainly be a good way of wrecking the connectors and ensuring a bad joint. At least you (I hope deliberately) misspelt it .

Krohn and Krone are interchangeable:
http://www.solwise.co.uk/telesun_krohn-tools.htm

It's probably wrong but as it was used in college longer ago than I care to remember, I've always used the former.

I think you may find that your spelling emanates from Solwise, perhaps (now I'm guessing) as some way of getting round a patent or trademark they didn't want to pay to use.

Krone was developed in Berlin in the 1970s by The Krone Group

Link 1.

A punch down tool, also called a punchdown tool or a krone tool (named after the KRONE LSA-PLUS connector), is a small hand tool used by telecommunication and network technicians

Link 2.

Looking at the Solwise product it seems to fall into this category, from Link 2:-

For light-duty use, there are also less-expensive punch down tools with fixed blades and no impact mechanism. These low-cost tools are more time-consuming for making reliable connections, and can cause muscle fatigue when used for large numbers of connections.

Yep.... I think the IDC was originally called (In the USA anyway) a "bantam" connector. I've always used the "Krohn" spelling as that's the way the college sponsors (Ferranti) spelt it on their literature. The last one that I bought a few years ago now.... from RS I think, was a Krohn tool.
It doesn't matter anyway; as long as it doesn't look like the one in my original link!

Edited by Deadbeat (Thu 12-May-16 13:48:24)

Yep, I know you were being humorous, but it is more than likely the termination the OP naffed up was the strip and screw type in the pictured junction box ...

easily done, harder to make a pigs ear of an IDC termination.